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boomnoise
05-01-2006, 08:10 PM
George Galloway is about to walk into the celebrity big brother house. Will be interesting to see what he makes of the platform, not to mention what he looks like topless in heat magazine.

With David Cameron on Radio 1 earlier today, what is the effect of politicians embracing the media in such a way? will it actually engage the youth?

martin
05-01-2006, 09:14 PM
Well, BB's about GG's level . Admittedly, BB's not as irritating or trill as Respect.

What do you think? Are they having an effect on you? I can't say, I still remember a time when rock stars and DJs used to take drugs and have sex and beat up nazis and blow up hotel rooms and crash cars and start riots, while the Young Conservatives thought pop music was for mentally weak degenerates and wouldn't be seen dead out of a suit and tie. And now we have dull, wimp rockers and 'turntablists' who wanna spend their weekends having enemas in detox clinics while Tory MPs go on about 'rap' and walk around in YSL.... sorry, I haven't really helped with your question. I might watch this though as Pete Burns is normally a good laugh.

bassnation
05-01-2006, 10:17 PM
Well, BB's about GG's level . Admittedly, BB's not as irritating or trill as Respect.

What do you think? Are they having an effect on you? I can't say, I still remember a time when rock stars and DJs used to take drugs and have sex and beat up nazis and blow up hotel rooms and crash cars and start riots, while the Young Conservatives thought pop music was for mentally weak degenerates and wouldn't be seen dead out of a suit and tie. And now we have dull, wimp rockers and 'turntablists' who wanna spend their weekends having enemas in detox clinics while Tory MPs go on about 'rap' and walk around in YSL.... sorry, I haven't really helped with your question. I might watch this though as Pete Burns is normally a good laugh.

its a diverse bunch of people - sparks should fly. i never watch these things normally but just got sucked in tonight (yeah right)

i like pete burns too, admire his individuality and self-respect a great deal.

boomnoise
05-01-2006, 10:33 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4584056.stm

john eden
06-01-2006, 06:28 AM
I ws wondering if I'd be really pissed off if my local MP fucked off her constituency work for up to a month to appear on telly. And then I remembered my local MP is Diane Abbott, so I think it would probably make little difference.

Galloway is rarely in Tower Hamlets, it seems, so presumably people there will see more of him now he's on telly every night.

bassnation
06-01-2006, 06:41 AM
I ws wondering if I'd be really pissed off if my local MP fucked off her constituency work for up to a month to appear on telly. And then I remembered my local MP is Diane Abbott, so I think it would probably make little difference.

Galloway is rarely in Tower Hamlets, it seems, so presumably people there will see more of him now he's on telly every night.

i'm not a massive fan of galloway but it might be interesting to see whether he uses the time to lambast the government.

john eden
06-01-2006, 07:09 AM
i'm not a massive fan of galloway but it might be interesting to see whether he uses the time to lambast the government.

It might be more interesting if he manages to do anything else - he is a bit of a one trick pony! I expect they will edit out all the contentious stuff.

Paul Hotflush
06-01-2006, 10:22 AM
i'm not a massive fan of galloway but it might be interesting to see whether he uses the time to lambast the government.

Hmm, I would have though he's done it to publicise his views on popular music...

On the other point, Cameron is clearly a very clever man who will in all probability be PM in 4 years time. I don't agree with many of his policies, but you can't deny the man's nous.

bassnation
06-01-2006, 10:48 AM
Hmm, I would have though he's done it to publicise his views on popular music...

lol, i suppose i was stating the bleeding obvious - but nonetheless sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, mr hotflush! lets face it, hes not short on self-promotion, is he?

wonk_vitesse
07-01-2006, 10:05 PM
i'll have to will myself to stay away from this tripe. Like the last series, which thankfully i managed to avoid most of, there is this surreal shot of George Galloway working out with Michael Barrymore :confused: The last series had Bez consoling Germaine Greer. Once you 've seen that you've seen it all.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
08-01-2006, 09:23 AM
I dont have to will myself at all not to watch it, i find it comes very naturally - maybe i'm just a curmudgeon (all posters eventually come to resemble their avatars...).

I was never a massive Galloway fan, but i always supported his anti-war stance on the grounds of my-enemy's-enemy etc. But when he missed the knife edge commons vote on the last terrorism bill due to a 'commercial engagement', I realised he's just a charlatan self-publicist. Imagine how the muslim residents of Bow felt about that? I'd be bloody livid.

michael
08-01-2006, 10:30 AM
It might be more interesting if he manages to do anything else - he is a bit of a one trick pony! I expect they will edit out all the contentious stuff.
There was a bit in one of the Oz seasons of Big Brother where this guy Merlin got voted off and as he came out to do the "how'd you find it?" natter with the host, Gretel, he gaffa-taped his mouth and produced a little cloth sign that said "Free the refugees". He refused to remove the tape or (obviously) talk, and just sat there holding up his sign.

It completely fucken rattled her - she looked livid to me, had to roll with the usual "here's the car you obviously don't care about winning" paid-advertisement quota of the show, without the usual wrap up.

Anyway, the bit that I thought was interesting about it was that Gretel cut to the housemates and was basically saying she couldn't get any mileage from Merlin, and explained what he'd done. Various bods still in the house were like "awesome! that's so him!" and she snapped something about how it was a pretty stupid protest if he didn't even talk about it during the house, because he obviously wasn't interested in dialogue. Everyone in the house sounded baffled - "He talked about it all the time!" - which basically rammed it home for anyone with any doubts that, yes, all the contentious stuff that could be part of "reality" TV definitely gets edited out. That was very quickly the end of that chat with the housemates as well and they had to cut to ad break.

mms
08-01-2006, 12:48 PM
a friend of mine used to work for him whilst he was a labour mp and described him as a womanising egomanial sunbed worshipper, that was then he must surley be worse now.

IdleRich
09-01-2006, 10:14 AM
"When he missed the knife edge commons vote on the last terrorism bill due to a 'commercial engagement', I realised he's just a charlatan self-publicist."

Too right, it was a speaking engagement I think, no doubt on the evils of that very terrorism bill. Nothing he has done since has done anything to change my opinion. Of course it was funny when he got stuck in to the Americans but that's all it was really, funny.

worrior
09-01-2006, 12:08 PM
See how much his celeb jaunt is costing the British tax payer:
http://beta.cergis.com/george/

IdleRich
11-01-2006, 10:09 AM
Slightly off topic but has anyone else heard that "one of the production staff on celebrity big brother has been disciplined for leaving a gnome floating face down in the pool for barrymore's arrival"?

Woebot
11-01-2006, 10:48 AM
his comments about class, along the lines of (snootily) "i'm of a different class than these people" i thought were incxredibly offensive and patronising, and yet BIZARRELY i can't seem to find anyone anywhere picking him up on them.....

IdleRich
11-01-2006, 10:55 AM
"i'm of a different class than these people"

Who said that, Galloway? That sounds not just offensive but also pretty foolish if he ever hopes to get back in.

Melchior
11-01-2006, 10:56 AM
I realised he's just a charlatan self-publicist.

It's such a shame because his speech infront of that senate inquiry was bloody fantastic. Incisive and insightful and excellently delivered.

martin
11-01-2006, 11:15 AM
His comments were specifically about several members of the household talking about (in his words) "crude and lewd" sexual topics. Unsurprisingly so, he can't be seen to be cavorting with decadent Western whores. Personally I've lost all interest in this since the Richard Dawkins series started, it's ace. "Killing in the name of God isn't just murder...it's absolutely ridiculous"

Rambler
11-01-2006, 11:32 AM
I dont have to will myself at all not to watch it, i find it comes very naturally - maybe i'm just a curmudgeon (all posters eventually come to resemble their avatars...).

I was never a massive Galloway fan, but i always supported his anti-war stance on the grounds of my-enemy's-enemy etc. But when he missed the knife edge commons vote on the last terrorism bill due to a 'commercial engagement', I realised he's just a charlatan self-publicist. Imagine how the muslim residents of Bow felt about that? I'd be bloody livid.

Apparently, his major Muslim supporters in Bow feel somewhat betrayed that the guy they chose to represent them is now hanging around with strippers, transvestites and others of questionable morals...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1976600,00.html


“A lot of Muslims find it very unpalatable that their MP would consider doing this sort of show,” ...

A local community worker who joined the protest said: “I spoke to a number of people at Friday prayers who voted for him who are very disappointed he’s gone on TV with a Page 3 model and a Baywatch woman. What sign is that giving to the Muslim community? Children are tuning in. It’s not what the Muslim community wants from their MP.”

k-punk
12-01-2006, 10:37 PM
his comments about class, along the lines of (snootily) "i'm of a different class than these people" i thought were incxredibly offensive and patronising, and yet BIZARRELY i can't seem to find anyone anywhere picking him up on them.....

Think you're misinterpreting him there... he said (something like), 'for someone of my age and class, it is strange to hear sex discussed in such a way'... I took him to mean working class obv... the point being that licentious sex-talk used to be something expected of posh types (though sadly the w/class have now picked up the habit lol)

boomnoise
12-01-2006, 11:23 PM
i agree that woebot's comments were perhaps being taken slightly out of context but it was certainly said with a level of 'these people are below me' snobbery, or at the very least, with regard to a notion of non socio-economic class/sophistication.

regardless, tonight provided some of the most disturbing viewing provided by big brother ever. george pretending to be a cat was too much for me - was he actually licking his housemate's hand? he certainly was purring. this is my mp! i'm not a constituent with issues but those who could do with his help, if they saw that, would be in further despair.

his presence is no longer enough to communicate a political message. he has been gagged and all the press coverage has been damning, this exercise has been even more foolhardy than i had previously (optimistically) anticipated

k-punk
12-01-2006, 11:37 PM
ii'm not a constituent with issues but those who could do with his help, if they saw that, would be in further despair.


why though?

This rhetorical move - it's not me but - strikes me as typical of the denunciations of Galloway for going onto CBB. Would be a bit rich to condemn Galloway for snobbery whilst maintaining a totally snobbish stance about his being in there - an MP! on CBB!

Why aren't constituents 'in despair' when their MPs appear on other media froth like This Week or Have I Got News for You? Why isn't that nihilism-lite politix-is-all-just-public-school-japes thing thought of as unforgivably time-wasting too?

boomnoise
12-01-2006, 11:53 PM
subsequently i wish i had added a little irony to that post. politicians only become more fallable when they lose touch with the people - galloway's intent is to move away from this.

james's post over at deadmenleft sums up my thoughts on this nicely

http://deadmenleft.blogspot.com/2006/01/society-of-spectacle-or-its-crazy-but.html

john eden
13-01-2006, 08:52 AM
Why aren't constituents 'in despair' when their MPs appear on other media froth like This Week or Have I Got News for You? Why isn't that nihilism-lite politix-is-all-just-public-school-japes thing thought of as unforgivably time-wasting too?

In fact, Diane Abbott has come in for a bit of flak for being on that abomination of a programme where she cuddles up to Michael Portillo on the sofa every week.

However, there is a difference - which is that she is still able to run surgeries in her constituency and go to parliament to vote.

CBB does not allow Galloway to do this (or ANYTHING ELSE apart from CBB), which is a bit of a pisser if you live in TH and have a problems you need to talk to him about, or are opposed to the proposals for cross-rail which are being debated at the moment.

stelfox
13-01-2006, 11:02 AM
i can almost feel oliver craner resisiting the urge to say "i told you so"

henrymiller
13-01-2006, 11:26 AM
i say keep him in, he'll do less harm that way.

tatarsky
15-01-2006, 08:13 PM
When I first heard that GG was going on CBB, my initial thoughts were that his motivation was probably just to massage his saturn-sized ego (no matter what he says). But whilst I think he's a corrupt narcisist, he can at least make some very valid arguments (his little trip to the states last year was highly entertaining). Sadly though, Endemol have gagged him, so there's absolutely no chance of him getting anything remotely controvertial aired. Furthermore, he knows this. So when he declares that he's going in "for Palestine", I can't help but think: Bullshit.

A friend of mine worked with him years ago when he was running War on Want, and aparently rumours of corruption buzzed around him like flies back them too.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
16-01-2006, 11:47 AM
why though?
Why aren't constituents 'in despair' when their MPs appear on other media froth like This Week or Have I Got News for You? Why isn't that nihilism-lite politix-is-all-just-public-school-japes thing thought of as unforgivably time-wasting too?

At least those shows do engage with political issues. HIGNFY is probably the highest rated current affairs show on TV excluding news bulletins. BB is a different frothiness of froth altogether.

And while it was nice to see george sockin' it to the yanks, it's not exactly difficult is it? I'd rather have seen Robin Cook or Mike Jackson lay into them than georgous george.

Paul Hotflush
16-01-2006, 02:19 PM
A friend of mine worked with him years ago when he was running War on Want, and aparently rumours of corruption buzzed around him like flies back them too.

He's clearly bent as an old tent peg. And he comes across as such a scheming arsehole on CBB.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
16-01-2006, 05:05 PM
He's clearly bent as an old tent peg.

I dunno though - surely if there was anything concrete on him, we'd have seen it by now? He's pi$$ed off so many people. Some of those round him were clearly on the take but no one's managed to prove that he ever profited personally from his charity or for oil-for-food. I suspect that, like the WMDs, the powers that be cant find anything because it didnt happen.

Whatever it is that motivates GG's actions, it doesnt seem to be greed.

k-punk
16-01-2006, 09:45 PM
At least those shows do engage with political issues.

Only to trivialize and personalize them, especially in the case of the nihilistic public school guffaw-fest that is


HIGNFY

which even if it


is probably the highest rated current affairs show on TV excluding news bulletins

it has absolutely no merit in terms of political analysis or discussion. It reduces politics to BB-style personalised gossip; at least GG is trying to go in the other direction.

k-punk
16-01-2006, 09:49 PM
Sadly though, Endemol have gagged him, so there's absolutely no chance of him getting anything remotely controvertial aired. Furthermore, he knows this. So when he declares that he's going in "for Palestine", I can't help but think: Bullshit.

Hmmm, but the most media impact most BB folk have is in the week or two after they leave the house. Let's see if all the highbrow media sneering at Galloway refuse to interview him after he comes out..


A friend of mine worked with him years ago when he was running War on Want, and aparently rumours of corruption buzzed around him like flies back them too.

What does this prove exactly? The combined forces of the British and the American secret services plus the most intrusive media in the world have done their best to dig up dirt on Galloway for years. Nothing concrete yet.

But plenty of rumour and innuendo.

Of course.

tatarsky
16-01-2006, 10:21 PM
Hmmm, but the most media impact most BB folk have is in the week or two after they leave the house. Let's see if all the highbrow media sneering at Galloway refuse to interview him after he comes out..

Fair point. Given that highbrow media sneering, it'll be fun to see if them all do a u-turn and use him to boost circulation.


What does this prove exactly?

Nothing. It's just another piece of hearsay to add to the pile (except with a mildly closer source to me). Of all I've seen of him though, I can't help get the feeling that he's arrogant and deluded in equal measure. On entering BB he declared rather smugly: "I think Blair will be in two minds about my entering the BB house. On the one hand, he won't be glad of all the publicity I'll be getting, but on the other, he'll just be glad that I'm not in the house of commons!" (or words to that effect).

Whilst I may agree with some of his opinions, and I admire his oratory skills, that level of arrogance just leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

k-punk
16-01-2006, 11:02 PM
Nothing. It's just another piece of hearsay to add to the pile (except with a mildly closer source to me). Of all I've seen of him though, I can't help get the feeling that he's arrogant and deluded in equal measure. On entering BB he declared rather smugly: "I think Blair will be in two minds about my entering the BB house. On the one hand, he won't be glad of all the publicity I'll be getting, but on the other, he'll just be glad that I'm not in the house of commons!" (or words to that effect).

Whilst I may agree with some of his opinions, and I admire his oratory skills, that level of arrogance just leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

I agree he's arrogant and possibly deluded (but surely Blair WON'T like the amount of publicity he's getting, actually) but I think that's a world away from financial corruption. It's the attempts to smear him that leave a bad taste in my mouth.

D84
16-01-2006, 11:21 PM
Well, a lot of my favourite musos and comedians are could be described as somewhat arrogant deluded people but that doesn't stop me from enjoying their work or them from recognising and expressing the truth, being effective communicators and craftsmen/craftswomen etc.

I probably wouldn't want to share a drink with them but that's what one's friends are for..

Galloway seems to be supporting the right cause and he's a great communicator for it and so more power to him. I can't see this show from here on the other side of the world but I think it would take some guts and a modicum of humility to muck in with the others on TV.

domtyler
20-01-2006, 05:53 PM
Galloway seems to be supporting the right cause and he's a great communicator for it and so more power to him.

What cause would that be? The plucky freedom fighters of Iraq:

"The resistance is getting stronger every day, and the will to remain as an occupier by Britain and America is getting weaker everyday. Therefore, it can be said, truly said, that the Iraqi resistance is not just defending Iraq. They are defending all the Arabs, and they are defending all the people of the world from American hegemony." Galloway on Al-Jazeera 31st July 2005

Bombings kill 15 in Iraq capital
At least 15 people have been killed and 26 wounded in two near-simultaneous bomb attacks in the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, Iraqi police say.
The first attack came from a suicide bomber who walked into a crowded cafe in the centre of the city and killed at least 12 civilians. BBC report Jan 16th 2006

Defend the Arabs by killing the Arabs? That's not a cause I can support.

mms
22-01-2006, 10:24 AM
Although initially i've had respect for his respect party,George is a twat and as he goes on looks more like a twat than ever, did you see the other night 'the house was so far from racist,' he protested, that they let Dennis get away with things they would never accept from a white man (ie. sexual predatation , bad language, lack of self-control, talking about his knob). !!? And his crap about if he anyone knows about racism he does?
Then he attacks the two american's for being american and talks about dennis being a tiger in a cage and traci teasing him, wtf?
He's clearly using Pete to do his dirty work, keeping him close and winding him up so he'll do the pawn work.

PeteUM
22-01-2006, 09:48 PM
Looks like he might be out, and I reckon he'll regret ever having been in.

DigitalDjigit
23-01-2006, 05:16 PM
mms, that sounds like "David" from the office.

mms
23-01-2006, 06:26 PM
mms, that sounds like "David" from the office.

haha yes well never thought of it like that, but it kinda works - esp in the light of him doing a task that had him and another guy doing robotics last night to try and emote something like 'slightly pertubed as a small puppy refuses to come to you' really very funny indeed, in one of those 'watch someone humiliate themselves' way.
:)

PeteUM
24-01-2006, 09:50 PM
Sorry about this but:

He's so out.

Throw me a bone someone. Some ludicrous scenes in this current house!

droid
25-01-2006, 09:21 AM
Sorry about this but:

He's so out.

Throw me a bone someone. Some ludicrous scenes in this current house!

Your right. Last night was utterly shocking. The man is a pompous, arrogant, hypocritical and self-obsessed bully. The combination of spiteful and vindictive (not to mention needless) abuse from himself, Rodman and Pete (worm-tounge) Best was truely a sight to behold... and the fact that Barrymore eventually emerged as the voice of sanity, and possible winner IMO, tells you all you need to know.

He really has fucked up beyond belief with this whole adventure. Its a real shame that hes so associated with the anti-war movement...

Wonder what the interview will be like tonight.

martin
25-01-2006, 09:26 AM
Your right. Last night was utterly shocking. The man is a pompous, arrogant, hypocritical and self-obsessed bully. The combination of spiteful and vindictive (not to mention needless) abuse from himself, Rodman and Pete (worm-tounge) Best was truely a sight to behold... and the fact that Barrymore eventually emerged as the voice of sanity, and possible winner IMO, tells you all you need to know.

He really has fucked up beyond belief with this whole adventure. Its a real shame that hes so associated with the anti-war movement...

Barrymore the voice of sanity? I think he's more fucked up than ever, especially trying on his 'wacky Frenchman' routine - real hands-over-eyes stuff. Actually, incredibly, my respect for Galloway massively increased last night, even if it wasn't for anything more substantial than calling that saddo from the aptly-named Ordinary Boys a "liar and a sneak" (which is a superb insult when delivered in a Scottish accent), and puffing away on his cigar while pretending to read 'The Communist Manifesto'. I hope Traci wins, she's nice.

mms
25-01-2006, 09:34 AM
Ordinary Boys a "liar and a sneak" (which is a superb insult when delivered in a Scottish accent), and puffing away on his cigar while pretending to read 'The Communist Manifesto'. I hope Traci wins, she's nice.

that guy from the ordinary boys is so obviously an ex drama school type of guy, no one on earth follows sacred cow labels and style that closely unless they are much older than him imo

sufi
25-01-2006, 09:34 AM
they got some lovely video out on the news this morning of gorgeous and the odious uday hussain back in 1999, george is with his exact same cat got cream face, it makes you cringe
he also beat the torygraph's appeal against his libel case this morning so the uday video is probably released now as a piquant smear to remind us that any fecker can beat the torygraph in court, with or without the slightest bit of integrity.
I met the galloway once and was deeply impressed by his utter sliminess and narcissism </namedrop>

droid
25-01-2006, 09:42 AM
Barrymore the voice of sanity? I think he's more fucked up than ever, especially trying on his 'wacky Frenchman' routine - real hands-over-eyes stuff. Actually, incredibly, my respect for Galloway massively increased last night, even if it wasn't for anything more substantial than calling that saddo from the aptly-named Ordinary Boys a "liar and a sneak" (which is a superb insult when delivered in a Scottish accent), and puffing away on his cigar while pretending to read 'The Communist Manifesto'. I hope Traci wins, she's nice.

Galloway was completely out of order, and manufactured the entire ridiculous incident by encouraging Pete Best's bizarre attacks - seemingly in order to give himself an opportunity to vent his own spleen at Preston. Barrymore made a calm and reasonable (if slightly loopy) plea to stop the arguing... The French business came afterwards - and goes to highlight my point - how low standards have dropped when Barrymore seems to be the one talking sense.

"Pour, Pour, Pour me.... a drink" - a disgraceful thing to shout at an alcoholic purely to win a petty argument. Any admiration I once had for GG's theatrics and orational skills has long since gone down the drain. - and Im sympathetic to the man!


that guy from the ordinary boys is so obviously an ex drama school type of guy, no one on earth follows sacred cow labels and style that closely unless they are much older than him imo

That could wel be true. But the wasnt the one starting the drama last night! More to the point, Galloway has virtually assured that Preston or Barrymore will win after that tirade...

martin
25-01-2006, 09:54 AM
Ha ha, afraid I'm way too biased against Barrymore to agree, his hoarding of fags and the way he tried to push around Jodie Marsh were truly pitiful. Plus I'm still scarred by exposure to 'Strike It Lucky' (awful early 90s UK gameshow where he ran around fake-smiling at contestants, contempt dripping from his eyes) and let's face it, anyone playing the swimming pool / coke / sex romps game (all a bit Jackie Collins '77, no?) can't exactly turn around and pull this bullshit, "I hate the word 'celeb', who are we anyway" vote-scooper schtick. Barrymore's too thick to be really manipulative, I don't actually wish him any harm, but if he wins this I'll be amazed, not to mention slightly worried.

droid
25-01-2006, 10:06 AM
Ha ha, afraid I'm way too biased against Barrymore to agree, his hoarding of fags and the way he tried to push around Jodie Marsh were truly pitiful. Plus I'm still scarred by exposure to 'Strike It Lucky' (awful early 90s UK gameshow where he ran around fake-smiling at contestants, contempt dripping from his eyes) and let's face it, anyone playing the swimming pool / coke / sex romps game (all a bit Jackie Collins '77, no?) can't exactly turn around and pull this bullshit, "I hate the word 'celeb', who are we anyway" vote-scooper schtick. Barrymore's too thick to be really manipulative, I don't actually wish him any harm, but if he wins this I'll be amazed, not to mention slightly worried.

I thought he was out of the running myself, but its amazing what a little bullying can do for peoples sympathies...

I havent been watching it enough to get annoyed at 'the little things', so maybe thats why last night had so much impact - the one constant I have noticed is Best's unending and vicious bitching, and Georges ongoing manipulations...

'Strike it lucky' wrecked my head as well btw... so bizarrely manic and unengaging at the same time...

martin
25-01-2006, 10:09 AM
I havent been watching it enough to get annoyed at 'the little things

God...yr right...I really need to get out more

k-punk
25-01-2006, 05:08 PM
No Martin, yr totally right....


What has Galloway supposedly done wrong?

1. 'Cheated'. There is a difference between cheating and breaking the rules; cheating implies he was seeking an advantage which clearly he wasn't (in fact, far from gaining him anything, his discussing of nominations and his iniqutious treatment as a result of such discussions has led to his certain eviction this evening. )

2. 'Bullied' people. What does this amount except that denounced people more forcefully and articulately than they were able to denounce him? Why was Barrymore not 'bullying' Galloway? Only because he is too stupid and slow-witted to argue effectively. That hardly makes him a victim. (The sheer Alan Partridge patheticness of Barrymore's riposte to Galloway's claim that 'he was the most selfish man he'd ever met'... 'in your opinion' he dribbled.)

3. Been arrogant. So what?

4. Put the VILE, stupid, smarmy, ingratiating, boring Preston (he has sneaky eyes, Pete Burns is so correct) in his place. Good. ('The aplomb with which you became a lying plutocrat' has to be my favourite TV sentence for some time).

5. Told a few home truths to the aggravating Barrymore, who HAS behaved in a hoarding and obsessive manner and who IS a narcissist, to such a degree that IMMEDIATELY after GG denounced him for this character trait, he made a 'poor me' speech which couldn't have proved Galloway's case more consummately. Galloway - who has been the victim of baseless smear campaigns from the whole of the British and the American establishment, sadly and shamefully repeated by people on this very thread (yeh he met Uday, big deal, old old news, didn't sell him any arms though did he?) - has to be admired for sitting there and saying NOTHING while the whining Barrymore bleated on (poor him poor him) about how badly he's been treated by the media. There's no doubt about it, he has been hounded by the press who yes have engaged in an unpleasant homophobic witch-hunt-- but it would be hard to argue that cocaine-snorting philanderer and adulterer Barrymore was more sinned agains than sinning. After all, most of the allegations against Barrymore, unlike those against GG, have been substantiated.

Amongst last night's absolutely gripping installment, I can't believe that no-one has picked up on Barrymore's outraged howl: 'If people want to attack me now, well, they can go and jump in a

.... lake.'

The sheer horror of what he was about to say seemed to dawn on him seconds before the end of that train wreck of a sentence.

But at least Barrymore isn't Maggot - self-righteous, sneaky, even more tedious than the music he makes, 'anything for an easy life' quietist.... he's like a cross between a slower witted, uglier Paul Morley and Mr Bean, though much less interesting.

lethalfizzle
25-01-2006, 07:11 PM
wow, such heartfelt defense of galloway. however you justify his actions, the man is still a complete and utter cunt. of course hes in good company, but that doesnt make him any less of one. actually, its not that hes even a nob, which he is, hes just a sad little man. did you see him vowing to get back at people in the house who had offended him when he gets out? its pathetic.

PeteUM
25-01-2006, 07:43 PM
Well, I think Galloway's arrogance is pretty ugly, Barrymore is a shambling husk of a man and Burns is one of the darkest characters I've seen..er..on TV. I admit Preston was a bit of a monkey in that suit, and I know Chantelle's vacuousness is annoying, and that the programme makers edit out stuff, but what were they supposed to have done to warrant that attack? Galloway seems to have got the hump after getting done for breaking the rules, and as far as he's concerned it's everybody's fault but his. I figure Preston will walk it, and so I'm with the Mums on this one. I would try and be more succinct/make more sense, but time marches on y'see...

sufi
25-01-2006, 07:53 PM
they're saying 'career meltdown' but wtf knows at this stage in political terms, i appreciate mark's defense, which can't really amount to more than 'he's a scumbag but he's our scumbag' - gg has been increasingly a maverick figure & now he's heading into way new & wierd territory...

don_quixote
25-01-2006, 08:32 PM
pete burns is fantastic!

bassnation
25-01-2006, 08:35 PM
pete burns is fantastic!

yeah, seconded. hes funny, utterly cynical and sharp.

sufi
25-01-2006, 09:11 PM
(just got to mention by the way that i absolutely have not watched more than a couple of minutes of bb, ever, i'm pathologically averse to doing so, but unable to avoid endless updates across all strata of media)

Lichen
25-01-2006, 09:40 PM
Amongst last night's absolutely gripping installment, I can't believe that no-one has picked up on Barrymore's outraged howl: 'If people want to attack me now, well, they can go and jump in a

.... lake.'

The sheer horror of what he was about to say seemed to dawn on him seconds before the end of that train wreck of a sentence.




That's very funny, but do you really think he was about to say the j word?

craner
25-01-2006, 10:22 PM
"indefensible"

"defending"

"the"

Does Galloway have self-esteem? (Why would anyone go on BB: it reveals character surgically...)

G's "I want to be loved by Arabs" career and endless search for the authoritarian father-figure comes out loud and clear (even in the C4 hellhouse)

and sadder than I suspected (in both senses...).

Martin Dust
25-01-2006, 10:32 PM
Had my money on Maggot...

k-punk
25-01-2006, 10:46 PM
That's very funny, but do you really think he was about to say the j word?

no, that's what he intended to say, but the realisation that maybe he shouldn't be referring to misfortunes in water dawned on him a little too late for him to stop the sentence.

bassnation
25-01-2006, 10:52 PM
there's no doubt about it, he has been hounded by the press who yes have engaged in an unpleasant homophobic witch-hunt-- but it would be hard to argue that cocaine-snorting philanderer and adulterer Barrymore was more sinned agains than sinning. After all, most of the allegations against Barrymore, unlike those against GG, have been substantiated.

i find this point hard to get my head around.

how come barrymores accusations in the tabloid press outweigh georges? barrymore had gay sex and took drugs. big deal, lots of people do that every weekend. as for adultery - well no-ones perfect. it goes on a lot in real life you know. and as for the lubbock incident, does anyone believe, even for a split second, that barrymore drugged and raped him and afterwards drowned him in the pool?

as far as i can see, all of the accusations against barrymore either concern baseless speculation (lot in common with george that regard) or personal problems.

as you rightly point out, the tabloid coverage as been homophobic, prurient and its hardly in the public interest - unlike the allegations levelled against george, smear or no smear.

he might be troubled and a blithering idiot at times but hes human just like the rest of us. sometimes i don't feel that about george galloway.

k-punk
25-01-2006, 10:53 PM
I'm frankly stunned that anyone who has watched the show for more than a few minutes (and who isn't a neo-con propagandist) wasn't cheering Galloway to the rafters last night. Tho perhaps the popularity of boring, stupid, conservative, witless, adonyne Maggot/Chantelle/Preston tells you something about why New Labour keep getting elected.

Dignified exit though, unruffled by the cat thing (you'd think he'd sold arms to dictators or bombed children wouldn't you, the way that episode has been reported). Appalling interview by Davina, though. Time for her to retire.

bassnation
25-01-2006, 11:02 PM
I'm frankly stunned that anyone who has watched the show for more than a few minutes (and who isn't a neo-con propagandist) wasn't cheering Galloway to the rafters last night. Tho perhaps the popularity of boring, stupid, conservative, witless, adonyne Maggot/Chantelle/Preston tells you something about why New Labour keep getting elected.


i want pete to win.

HMGovt
25-01-2006, 11:03 PM
I'm frankly stunned that anyone who has watched the show for more than a few minutes (and who isn't a neo-con propagandist) wasn't cheering Galloway to the rafters last night.

Because he's an enormous bore with a limited range of verbal tics, a toadlike demeanour, monotonous delivery and a Churchill complex?

k-punk
25-01-2006, 11:05 PM
as you rightly point out, the tabloid coverage as been homophobic, prurient and its hardly in the public interest - unlike the allegations levelled against george, smear or no smear.


I'm having trouble getting my head around this logic. State-sponsored smears, which have been shown time and again to be baseless, are in the public interest? How is that?

Point is, the tabloid stories about Barrymore were denied by him in a pathetic bid to keep his lite entertainment career alive - but they were true. No-one is seriously suggesting that he personally raped and killed Lubbock, but he refused to give evidence about the incident so he could avoid being jailed for drug use.

The accusations against Galloway, on the other hand, have conspicuously failed to produce any supporting evidence, despite the best efforts of the most vicious press in the world, supported by the most powerful government in the world and its lickspittle poodle.

HMGovt
25-01-2006, 11:06 PM
i want pete to win.

I would rather see Pete beaten into a sobbing jelly by the other inmates armed only with soap bars in pillow cases, a la Pile in Full Metal Jacket.

A narcissistic sociopath - nice combination.

bassnation
25-01-2006, 11:06 PM
I would rather see Pete beaten into a sobbing jelly by the other inmates armed only with soap bars in pillow cases, a la Pile in Full Metal Jacket.

A narcissistic sociopath - nice combination.

wicked entertainment value though.

k-punk
25-01-2006, 11:08 PM
i want pete to win.

I'm with you on that, but no chance I'm afraid with the conservative yoof vote...

HMGovt
25-01-2006, 11:09 PM
The defence of Galloway by his fellow travellers has a lot in common with the defence of homophobic dancehall artists by tunnel-visored reggae fanboys.

k-punk
25-01-2006, 11:13 PM
Because he's an enormous bore with a limited range of verbal tics, a toadlike demeanour, monotonous delivery and a Churchill complex?

verbal tics - way more beautifully wrought off the cuff sentences in the last two weeks than most politicians manage in a scripted lifetime

toadlike demeanour - not worth commenting on

monotonous delivery - he has a beautiful voice; I know I'm not the only one who thinks he could have a second career doing audio books like a shot... :)

Churchill complex - somehow doubt that he aspires to be the man who sent tanks in to break strikes

bassnation
25-01-2006, 11:15 PM
I'm having trouble getting my head around this logic. State-sponsored smears, which have been shown time and again to be baseless, are in the public interest? How is that?

Point is, the tabloid stories about Barrymore were denied by him in a pathetic bid to keep his lite entertainment career alive - but they were true. No-one is seriously suggesting that he personally raped and killed Lubbock, but he refused to give evidence about the incident so he could avoid being jailed for drug use.

i think a lot of people would have avoided incriminating themselves. yeah its cowardly and hes deeply flawed but he doesn't come across like a conniving calculating automaton. george is easily as narcisstic as barrymore - in fact they all are (apart from maggot maybe) - they are celebrities!

proven or disproven (i don't believe them personally), the allegations against galloway by their very nature are in the public interest.

k-punk
25-01-2006, 11:19 PM
The defence of Galloway by his fellow travellers has a lot in common with the defence of homophobic dancehall artists by tunnel-visored reggae fanboys.

The attacks on Galloway have a lot in common with kneejerk tabloid witch hunts.

Scratch that, they are PART of kneejerk tabloid witch hunts.

Double standards - Barrymore's bizarre behaviour is to be excused because he's 'only human'. No such latitude for George. I ask again... what are his great sins? So he over-reacted, he was a little petty and testy at times. Big deal. How is that equivalent to homophobia?

k-punk
25-01-2006, 11:25 PM
proven or disproven (i don't believe them personally), the allegations against galloway by their very nature are in the public interest.

(picks jaw up off floor)

are you really sure you want to say that?

k-punk
25-01-2006, 11:29 PM
george is easily as narcisstic as barrymore

I'll accept that if you can cite one conversation Barrymore had which (a) either didn't concern himself or (b) that he didn't treat as an occasion for one of his cringe-inducing time-for-my-close-up Mr DeMille routines.

k-punk
25-01-2006, 11:41 PM
Another point: it occurs to me that the reason that Barrymore has public sympathy while Galloway largely doesn't is simply because Barrymore happily and cynically plays the role of the victim when it suits him. Look at what he did to Jodie Marsh - how did he suddenly become the arbiter of what 'bullying' is. (Incidentally, one of the most distressing aspects of this series has been the pathetic trivializing of the term 'bullying'.)

bassnation
26-01-2006, 06:25 AM
(picks jaw up off floor)

are you really sure you want to say that?

no, not really - more into defending barrymore over his personal transgressions rather than attacking galloway, to be honest.

i have my doubts about galloway but they are more to do with his personal ambition and a general mistrust of politicians no matter what the creed. i agree that if they had any hard evidence it would have been out by now.

PeteUM
26-01-2006, 07:33 AM
yeah, seconded. hes funny, utterly cynical and sharp.


For sure, which makes his sociopathic behaviour pretty good TV when it's only other flawed B, C and D-list celebs he's bullying. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end, though. Imagine you're in a post-apocalyptic survival scenario, and it's just Bassnation and Burns in the nuclear bunker. Food supplies are down to just two days worth and you've drawn the short straw to go out and forage. You return empty-handed and in despair, and are confronted with Pete snarfing down the last few crumbs, fag in the other hand. He'd be like: "Well you can take that look off your face for a start."

Still, I don't doubt he had a tough upbringing. Kids must have given him a lot of stick for those lips.

droid
26-01-2006, 09:16 AM
I'm frankly stunned that anyone who has watched the show for more than a few minutes (and who isn't a neo-con propagandist) wasn't cheering Galloway to the rafters last night. Tho perhaps the popularity of boring, stupid, conservative, witless, adonyne Maggot/Chantelle/Preston tells you something about why New Labour keep getting elected.

Thats a ridiculous statement. I for one am well aware of the smear campaign against Galloway, and am politically sympathetic to his views, but most of your defense of him seems to rest on the subjective asertions that his opponents are 'witless'/'stupid'/'narcissistic' have 'sneaky eyes' etc.., or based on pre-judgements made about their character based on events prior to them entering the house. These are exactly the kind of attacks you reject when they are are levelled at Galloway.

Ive watched a few hours of this each week, and I agree that theyre all flawed characters. I dont disagree with many of your statements about Barrymore - his performance in the first week or so was disgraceful... But none of this contradicts the evidence that Galloway has, on several occassions, used his orational skills to pompously and sanctimoniusly bully the others on ridiculously petty pretexts in order to right some percieved personal aggrievement, or simply for the pleasure of 'vanquishing his enemies'. His silly display of outrage at Preston the 'plutocrat' just cracked me up... 'I would simply stand in ther middle of the room, protest at being held under duress, and not eat, drink or smoke anything'... unbelieveably pompous and almost certainly bullshit.

This has no bearing on my political perception of him of course, but, I have to say that many of the accusations against his personality and character seem to bear more weight in light of his behaviour on BB.

Yknow - just because someone has been unfairly attacked in the past, it doesnt mean that every attack against them is automatically unfair, or the work of 'neo-con propagandists'... :confused:

bassnation
26-01-2006, 09:24 AM
I'll accept that if you can cite one conversation Barrymore had which (a) either didn't concern himself or (b) that he didn't treat as an occasion for one of his cringe-inducing time-for-my-close-up Mr DeMille routines.

narcissm takes forms other than simply talking about oneself all the time. george loves himself, hes less transparent about it than barrymore is - and i don't class that as a positive.

gabriel
26-01-2006, 09:45 AM
k-punk your stuff about how the 'conservative yoof' won't vote for pete or that chantelle, preston and maggot are symptomatic of a conservative trend completely misses the point. barrymore aside (i didn't see him attacking jodie marsh and have only really begun watching this week so don't know what was going on before), the divide in the house in the last few days basically splits into three people who are not particularly interesting or confident about their intelligence, but fundamentally unmalicious, and three arrogant cunts who are fucking rude, vile, spiteful and vicious. that's why rodman and galloway got voted out, and hoepfully that's by pete the vilest cunt i've ever seen on tv perhaps burns won't win. fortunately, despite my generally pessimistic opinion of the general public, it seems people have hit on the nice idea that being nice to people is a good thing, and being horrible isn't. nothing to do with 'conservativism' - i'd rather live with a right wing tory who was nice to me than a committed anti-war leftist who was as vile and spiteful as galloway as been this week.

martin
26-01-2006, 10:18 AM
despite my generally pessimistic opinion of the general public, it seems people have hit on the nice idea that being nice to people is a good thing, and being horrible isn't. nothing to do with 'conservativism' - i'd rather live with a right wing tory who was nice to me than a committed anti-war leftist who was as vile and spiteful as galloway as been this week.

Yes, the term 'bullying' is being overused, and far too much emphasis being placed on 'niceness'. Give me a straight-talking bastard over a smiling backstabber any day. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for good manners. But I'm sick of this cloying, oppressive 'niceness' being stuffed in our faces all the time, it's a double standard. Check out those ridiculous new Samaritans posters where you're encouraged to call them if your life doesn't resemble a picture of bunnies revolving around a psychedelic kaleidoscope - a feeling I've never had, apart from when watching shockingly bad Punjabi action movies on cider

infinite thought
26-01-2006, 11:00 AM
Hate has always been my favourite emotion...thought George was remarkably calm and self-deprecating upon exiting last night - thought he might come out guns blazing, but no - and rather a night on the town with him, Pete and Rodman than Preston, Chantelle and Traci, the latter of whom are blankly evil in the way that only small children, dogs and cars can be.

It's true about the conservative youth thing - I thought FE would be full of kids wanting to break all the rules, man, but it turns out they're more pro-life than that bloke who owns Domino's Pizzas, more hang 'em and flog 'em than the Daily Mail, and generally more judgemental than God. Completely hypocritically of course, cos none of it applies to them, but the rhetoric is scary. They would love Chantelle and Preston.

droid
26-01-2006, 11:55 AM
Would I be right to sum up the two sides of the argument as follows?

1/ Those who view BB as some kind of socio/philospophical barometer or theatrical representation of british society, in which the actions of those involved are relatively unimportant compared to their percieved political status and what they abstractly (but subjectively) 'represent', automatically despise the dull but 'nice' Chantelle/Preston et al as representative of modern 'conservative yoof' (Urgh - But just look at how 'trendy' they are!) and reflexifly defend Galloway/Burns due to their seemingly unquestioned status as 'rebels' and 'cynics'. Therefore Galloway/Best (the axis of evil ;)) cannot be criticised, no matter how bad their behaviour as they have already been pre-judged to be intrinsically superior to their opponents.

2/ Those who view BB vicariously from an emphatic postition and think 'how would I cope in this situation' on a regular basis when watching. I fall into this camp (along with, Id say, the majority of the 'bewildered herd'), and I believe, based purely from watching the show, with no axe to grind or massive predijuce against anyone involved, that Galloway and Best have indulged in a lot of petty and vindictive bullying on a number of occassions, and on a basic human level, think them fairly unpleasant characters... definitely not the kind of people youd like to be locked in a house with, or even associate with for any length of time. (not to say they arent good TV).

Id be appalled if anyone I know mocked an alcoholic because of his addiction, or called someone 'a black bitch and a whore' in front of me - so why should I make an exception for Galloway and Best?

(There is a third side of course - those who simply hate Galloway for his anti-war views and want him to crash and burn. But they can fuck off back to Harry's Place.)

PeteUM
26-01-2006, 12:23 PM
Yeah, I reckon, but then I'm in your Camp 2 too.

infinite thought
26-01-2006, 12:24 PM
eh? What's to get? Is it really so inconceivable that someone would hypothetically prefer to spend time with Galloway, Burns, Rodman rather than Preston, Chantelle, Barrymore? This is certainly an empathic position, rather than the sort of abstract worshipping-of-the-supposed-cynics thing you have in point 1.

For some totally incomprehensible reason, I kinda prefer hanging around people who know things, argue, have something interesting to say, are cynical, occasionally aggressive, witty, bitchy, etc. And that would include mockery, insults and all that.

Er, as opposed to a moppet who gets tummy ache when she loses her orange lipstick and a bloke who fronts a band that sounds like an indie rip-off of The Specials who covers his eyes in shame when he realises he's sold out his girlfriend on the outside for a willfully idiotic budget Paris Hilton.

john eden
26-01-2006, 12:29 PM
eh? What's to get? Is it really so inconceivable that someone would hypothetically prefer to spend time with Galloway, Burns, Rodman rather than Preston, Chantelle, Barrymore? This is certainly an empathic position, rather than the sort of abstract worshipping-of-the-supposed-cynics thing you have in point 1.

I think the crucial point is some time versus being locked up with for 3 weeks.

Having lived with all sorts of eccentrics over the years I would choose an easy, but dull, home life now I think. Tho of course the ideal is someone who challenges you and is interesting without being a fucking knob.

infinite thought
26-01-2006, 12:45 PM
I still can't see how that would be less unpleasant than having to listen to Chantelle for the same amount of time - I suppose I don't see how her and Preston, etc., are supposed to be 'nice' or easy-going - I'm sure her incomprehensible shrieking and childishness would send me over the edge far more quickly than Burns' scornful eyebrows or whatever.

Agree with Martin - 'niceness' is usually hypocritical bullshit. I don't trust nice people, you never know what they're thinking...

droid
26-01-2006, 12:51 PM
eh? What's to get? Is it really so inconceivable that someone would hypothetically prefer to spend time with Galloway, Burns, Rodman rather than Preston, Chantelle, Barrymore? This is certainly an empathic position, rather than the sort of abstract worshipping-of-the-supposed-cynics thing you have in point 1.

For some totally incomprehensible reason, I kinda prefer hanging around people who know things, argue, have something interesting to say, are cynical, occasionally aggressive, witty, bitchy, etc. And that would include mockery, insults and all that.

Er, as opposed to a moppet who gets tummy ache when she loses her orange lipstick and a bloke who fronts a band that sounds like an indie rip-off of The Specials who covers his eyes in shame when he realises he's sold out his girlfriend on the outside for a willfully idiotic budget Paris Hilton.

Youve misread me. Im not claiming that people would want to spend time with Chantelle or Preston (I certainly wouldnt), simply that they definitely wouldnt want to spend time with George or Pete.

Its not a popularity contest! :D

infinite thought
26-01-2006, 12:59 PM
Youve misread me. Im not claiming that people would want to spend time with Chantelle or Preston (I certainly wouldnt), simply that they definitely wouldnt want to spend time with George or Pete.

Its not a popularity contest! :D

Not everyone in the world is afraid of a little 'bullying', heh. I'd certainly be up for a 15-minute curious glance at Pete's eyes over a jacket potato, or an hour or two of being trapped in a lift with Galloway...I may not speak for everyone here....but, erm, reckon the both of them are a lot more attractive in general than you might think....

martin
26-01-2006, 01:15 PM
Expecting Pete Burns to be 'nice' is a bit like hoping Julie Burchill doesn't write something controversial, cliche'd as it may seem at times, they ain't gonna change, it's what they're good at. I personally dislike GG and think Respect are a shower of wankers, but to be honest, I can't be bothered watching any more of it now he's gone. I'm just glad he ripped into the snivelling little mod scrote before he left. And that pro-UK speech was hilarious, funnier than a lifetime of Barrymore performances.

mms
26-01-2006, 01:24 PM
i think the calmness and dignity of his exit highlighted at least comparativley just how unbearable the house must have been, almost to a man or woman they were all awful human beings magnified under the glare of the house and the cameras.
I mean just imagine spending any time with Chantelle and Preston at any rate - at least that pete fellow is funny as hell.
Amusing how the sun reimagined his statement about 'having lost his last election' as some kind of plea to stand down, which is just heinous and odd.

gabriel
26-01-2006, 02:30 PM
Amusing how the sun reimagined his statement about 'having lost his last election' as some kind of plea to stand down, which is just heinous and odd.


though not as heinous as galloway's comments that now he's been elected (i've been given my endorsement), given that he isn't going to stand in tower ham.beth green again, he basically doesnt' give a fuck what his electors think of him. very democratic

re: the nice/nasty thing - yeah i don't like preston or chantelle and woulnd't want to spend much time with them either, and yes i like my friends to be interesting and intelligent and challenging and blah blah blah, but for fuck's sake, i never want my friends to be like pete burns or george galloway (rodman i could handle, i've got friends that are like him - and no, i don't mean 'some of my best friends are black' by this comment!). they're fucking unpleasant bitter misogynstic cunts.

D7_bohs
26-01-2006, 02:34 PM
- I thought FE would be full of kids wanting to break all the rules, man,

FE ? further education? or something stranger/ please advise

bassnation
26-01-2006, 02:42 PM
re: the nice/nasty thing - yeah i don't like preston or chantelle and woulnd't want to spend much time with them either, and yes i like my friends to be interesting and intelligent and challenging and blah blah blah, but for fuck's sake, i never want my friends to be like pete burns or george galloway (rodman i could handle, i've got friends that are like him - and no, i don't mean 'some of my best friends are black' by this comment!). they're fucking unpleasant bitter misogynstic cunts.

i've got a few friends like pete burns - not surgically modified tranvestites but generally cynical and bitchy - it gets a bit wearing after a while but its hilarious in moderate doses.

i think the BB residents are cartoon characters in a way - maybe everyones got a bit of pete burns / rodham / galloway in them in small doses at different times.

infinite thought
26-01-2006, 02:47 PM
FE ? further education? or something stranger/ please advise

Nope, just what you thought.

droid
26-01-2006, 02:48 PM
maybe everyones got a bit of pete burns / rodham / galloway in them in small doses at different times.

Theres an 'Oh-er matron' comment if ever Ive heard one... ;)

owen
26-01-2006, 02:50 PM
far too much emphasis being placed on 'niceness'. Give me a straight-talking bastard over a smiling backstabber any day. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for good manners. But I'm sick of this cloying, oppressive 'niceness' being stuffed in our faces all the time, it's a double standard.

so, so OTM.
the odd thing I find about big brother is people's tendency to vote for who they might like, or who they (shudder!) 'identify' with, as opposed to what would make good television. think of pete burns' obvious dread when realising he'd have to spend two more days with that shower of nondescript shrills...

thought galloway was oddly dignified on his way out- thought the 'last election' thing was worth commenting on

btw, have people noticed the enormous Sun anti-galloway hoarding on Whitechapel High St? Very unnerving...what puzzles me rather is that Galloway genuinely didn't seem to think about the fact that he'd be edited in the most grotesque light, that any political comment would be edited out, etc etc...

bassnation
26-01-2006, 02:50 PM
Theres an 'Oh-er matron' comment if ever Ive heard one... ;)

LOL

infinite thought
26-01-2006, 02:54 PM
Will Self in today's Standard: 'Surely the truth is....the world is decorated in a variety of pastel shades with lots of stripped ethical pine on show. It may look tacky, but it's vastly preferable to the moral minimalism of Galloway and his ilk.'

'moral minimalism' - I dunno what the hell he means about pine, but this one is quite good.

droid
26-01-2006, 02:57 PM
far too much emphasis being placed on 'niceness'. Give me a straight-talking bastard over a smiling backstabber any day. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for good manners. But I'm sick of this cloying, oppressive 'niceness' being stuffed in our faces all the time, it's a double standard.

But thats not an apt description of Galloway at all - Pete - yeah - hes universally bitchy, but Galloway went behind peoples backs time and time again - and got caught out for it...

Isnt bitching behind peoples backs and discussing who you want to get rid of the definition of backstabbing in this context? :confused:

Agree with the above regarding the exit and interview. Remarkably dignified considering.

gabriel
26-01-2006, 03:00 PM
what puzzles me rather is that Galloway genuinely didn't seem to think about the fact that he'd be edited in the most grotesque light, that any political comment would be edited out, etc etc...

yeah it seems to display a staggering lack of foresight and awareness doesn't it

one of the things about pete burns being a cynical nasty wanker is that it'd probably be funny if he picked on someone like galloway or barrymore or rodman cos they'd have a barney and i'm sure i'd laugh and enjoy it, but when he attacks people like preston and chantelle and traci whose self esteem/self confidence is basically so low that that they're unable to defend themselves in any meaningful way, it becomes pretty painful.

owen
26-01-2006, 03:01 PM
But thats not an apt description of Galloway at all - Pete - yeah - hes universally bitchy, but Galloway went behind peoples backs time and time again - and got caught out for it...

Isnt bitching behind peoples backs and discussing who you want to get rid of the definition of backstabbing in this context? :confused:

Erm, I was talking about the audience rather than the house itself....

droid
26-01-2006, 03:06 PM
But I'm sick of this cloying, oppressive 'niceness' being stuffed in our faces all the time, it's a double standard.

I for one would welcome anyone who feels like oppressing me with kindness, and would enjoy having a big cloying chunk of niceness stuffed into my face for a change - so please let me know if you want to send some of your surplus my way... :D

droid
26-01-2006, 03:07 PM
Erm, I was talking about the audience rather than the house itself....

Sorry Owen - I meant to address Martins quote, but ended up with your name there instead... :o

martin
26-01-2006, 03:28 PM
I for one would welcome anyone who feels like oppressing me with kindness, and would enjoy having a big cloying chunk of niceness stuffed into my face for a change - so please let me if you want to send some of your surplus my way... :D

Hippie

droid
26-01-2006, 03:47 PM
Hippie

lol..

Good Galloway post here (http://k-tril.blogspot.com/). Needless to say I dont agree with it all, but it includes a qualification that all commentators should take note of:


Now I know whilst in the Big Brother house, he certainly looked like a bully [who knows, perhaps he is] but the key thing is, I don't know, I don't "know" him...I know a version of him. And here is the crux of the issue

jasonh
26-01-2006, 05:06 PM
I do support Galloway's stance on the war, but CBB has managed to be edited in such a way (and he has portrayed himself, let's not forget) as a bullying, misogynistic, egomaniacal twat of the first order.

Notwithstanding the fact that I didn't like her much myself, his (along with Pete and Barrymore's) treatment of Jodie Marsh in the first few days was terrible.

The worst thing is, I've continued to watch the bloody programme despite the fact that the people on it are hateful, narcissistic, talentless fools. Galloway fitted in rather well!

bassnation
26-01-2006, 06:54 PM
Hippie

droids gone all plur on us ;)

spread the love!

k-punk
26-01-2006, 07:00 PM
Would I be right to sum up the two sides of the argument as follows?

1/ Those who view BB as some kind of socio/philospophical barometer or theatrical representation of british society, in which the actions of those involved are relatively unimportant compared to their percieved political status and what they abstractly (but subjectively) 'represent', automatically despise the dull but 'nice' Chantelle/Preston et al as representative of modern 'conservative yoof' (Urgh - But just look at how 'trendy' they are!) and reflexifly defend Galloway/Burns due to their seemingly unquestioned status as 'rebels' and 'cynics'. Therefore Galloway/Best (the axis of evil ;)) cannot be criticised, no matter how bad their behaviour as they have already been pre-judged to be intrinsically superior to their opponents.



No, this is completely the wrong way round. It is Preston and Chantelle who have elected themselves as representatives of youth. Preston can barely have a conversation in which he doesn't position himself and Chantelle as 'young'; witness his initial witless assault on Galloway et al which seemed to be along the lines of 'why have those old people been allowed in here'. He, assisted by such luminaries as Chris Moyles on Radio 1 (so I hear), has continually made youth an issue, under the delusion that being young automatically makes people interesting and fun, an assumption that the mod and Chantelle have thoroughly disproven.

It's not a question of 'pre-judging' them - how could I? No-one had heard of Chantelle before CBB... same goes for Preston actually, so the analogy with Galloway fails. It is a question of POST-judging them, on the basis of their behaviour, which, actually, seems to be a legitimate criteria of judgement. The problem is not only their lack of intelligence or wit, it's their utter shamelessness about it, their lack of any but the most empty of aspirations. For it to be a question of prejudice, I would have had to have thought ANY person under 25 would be witless, lazily hedonistic and boring. I don't think that... (And presumably neither does Galloway, which may have been his 'mistake', daring to expect things from people.)

However, they have clearly struck a chord - and why is that? Because their blandness, fear and suspicion of intellect, hostility to anything out of the ordinary is obviously something that a significant proportion of their largely young audience identity with. And it's 'identifying with' those traits that troubles me. Here the Nietzsche in me comes out: Why not identify with something greater, more powerful, intelligent, charismatic than yourself? It is not self-evident that you would 'identify' with something that corresponds with your lowest expectations of yourself. Surely youth culture when it has been vibrant has been precisely about such over-reaching will to power, not quiescent, slackly narcissistic confirmation that 'it's OK to be you'. The conservatism I'm talking about is not only a political conservatism; I should say, it is not even that. Any kind of political position would be an advance on the taken-for-granted certainties of their hedontology.

And of course I'd rather spend time with Galloway and Burns than the rest of em. Not because they have been pre-judged to be intrinsically superior but because they have SHOWN themselves to be superior conservationalists, to be more interesting etc etc. And that's not in spite of but because of - again a little Nietzsche is germane here - a certain degree of harshness, unpleasantness and cruelty --- 'assuming that someone takes the affects of hate, envy, greed, and ruling as the affects which determine life, as something that, in the whole household of life, have to be present fundamentally and essentially, and, as a result, have to be intensified if life is to be further intensified...'

Also think it is wrong to equate the young hedocons' bland neurotic egotism with 'niceness'... it isn't even that...

k-punk
26-01-2006, 07:29 PM
but CBB has managed to be edited in such a way (and he has portrayed himself, let's not forget) as a bullying, misogynistic, egomaniacal twat of the first order.



Egomaniacal sure, good. But misognyistic, what's the evidence for that? Because he didn't have any time for Traci, Chantelle and poor liccle Jodie? If they were representative of all women, I'd be misogynistic, and rightly so.

This bullying thing is clearly coming from people who have never been bullied. Bullying isn't about being called an idiot when you are behaving like an idiot; it's about being put-down, degraded and humiliated WHATEVER you do, for no reason and without provocation. Yeh, GG and the others could have laid off Jodie a bit (and that's easy to say when you are not being relentlessly provoked by her whining and preening in the labrat atmosphere of the house) - but to call a few completely justified insults bullying is trivializing something that can make life an unbearable hell for its real victims.

Droopy
27-01-2006, 01:09 AM
Hi, as a long-time lurker on these pages, I’ve been waiting for something I know about to comment on.

Before saying anything I have to say that I’d read k-punk’s analysis of the media reaction to GG going into the BB house and found it spot on. And for all those GG haters out there (and I’m one of them) I think K-P shows pretty clearly why Galloway will probably recover from the BB experience a lot quicker than people expect (idiots who think BB is worse than HIGNFY and think that pretending to be a cat on a national TV show is the worst thing you can do are the best friends GG has got).

Having said that, have you people actually been watching the programme??

The first thing, why are people grouping Rodman with Burns and Galloway against Preston, Chantelle and Barrymore? For most of the series Barrymore was the third ‘ugly sister’ and the other two only really turned against him once he sided with the youngsters in the house (and before that they were sycophantic about him in a way that the others would never be). Rodman didn’t really do anything in the house as far as I could see and was well put in his place by Chantelle and Barrymore in the ‘Big Fight’. Apart from acting as the house sex pest in the first week, the only other impression I was left with was that he was some sort of weird celebrity snob – but when you come down to it, over here in ‘London’ (as he calls this country) he’s only famous for being famous in America (so not much better than that kid…. er … what’s her name …. Chantelle….. , isn’t that right Dennis?). So why exactly would you want to know this guy – oh yeah, I forgot, he’s black and has 43 brothers and sisters (nice one George).

Anyway, moving on to Burns and Galloway:

Bulllying – K-P said that : ‘This bullying thing is clearly coming from people who have never been bullied. Bullying isn't about being called an idiot when you are behaving like an idiot; it's about being put-down, degraded and humiliated WHATEVER you do, for no reason and without provocation’.

I agree with this. But how can you say that Pete Burns isn’t a bully? He systematically sought out what he thought to be the weakest person in the house and found some reason to attack them – Jodi; Rula; Chantelle; Traci. The only time he didn’t get anywhere was with Chantelle who was too clever to get in his games. And misogynist (this applies to George as well who tended to join in Pete’s attacks once Burns had cleared the way)? Why didn’t he pick on any of the men – you’re telling me that Preston, Maggot, Dennis , Barrymore and George are better than those women? The only reason he started picking on Preston is that Chantelle would have whupped him in a fight and there was no other men left!

People say about Pete that he’s funny and a ‘straight talking bastard’ and all that shit. ‘Funny’ is difficult to argue for one way or another but I can honestly say that I can’t remember a single funny thing that Pete has said (there’s a review of a biography of Mourinho in a recent London Review of Books: ‘Barclay would have us believe that Mourinho is funny, too, but most of the time he is simply unpleasant, in a vaguely humorous sort of way’ - this sums up Pete Burns’ ‘humour’ for me, much prefer Mourinho though).

But anyway – ‘straight talking bastard’ – with Burns, the ‘straight talking’ is always an excuse for him to be a bastard. And his straight talking is *what* exactly? – Jodi’s annoying (true), Rula’s a bit mumsy (hmmm?), Traci’s fake (who knows), Chantelle’s thick (bollocks – she’s 100x smarter than Burns), Preston has shifty eyes (fair enough I guess) – thanks for those insights – and Galloway is what? – the daddy you never had by the sound of it. I’m sure people could justify his attacks against all of the housemates but tell me what exactly was the point of his rant against Preston and Chantelle? He accused them of lying in a task where they had to lie in order to get food for the house. What is straight talking about that? What is the point in that? (And does *anyone* believe Galloway’s claim that he wouldn’t have accepted the food, champagne, etc (can’t be bothered to look up the quote) – what absolute bollocks!!!- and what does that show exactly?) (obviously where deniis grew up they woiuld have got a punch in the face)

Anyway, George:
Coming into BB was a smart move (and still could be). Going in to the BB house is only negative as far as being a ‘career politician’ goes and even from an ideological point of view is clearly positive in terms of wider audiences, blah blah blah.

It doesn’t help though if you go into the BB house and act like a complete cunt.

How so:
(1) "Not at all; not at all...as is obvious now; now they admit that. He was hated by political opponents as he suppressed all opposition political forces, but he wasn't hated by the ordinary Iraqi - no, not at all".
(2) ‘you are a wicked person who has corrupted this young girl and there’s a 55-year old man crying out there and it’s all your fault!”
(3) ‘The aplomb with which you became a lying plutocrat'
(4) ‘you are a sneak and a cheat and have been revealed as a sneak and a cheat’
(5) ‘what the hell kind of men are they?’ – GG on men crying in the house
(6) saying that he’ll make no bones about it that he wants Michael to win, and later admitting that he’s ‘damaged’ but still wants him to win before laying into him less than a day after
(7) what did he say on the nominations? (can’t find it on the internet) but it was something to do with Faria having done anything to get on the programme – have you watched the programme you fool?
(8) Loads more I’m sure but very late and going to bed I’m sorryy

I don’t know, I really don’t care about George (and I've got to go to bed).

I’m annoyed that there’s so much dismissal on this thread of Chantelle! She is so obviously the best in the house by a long way but just treated here like an attachment to (the pathetic) Preston. In short, she’s better than the rest of them because: (1) she stands up for herself; (2) she’s the only one who’s shown that she can get on with someone who is different from herself; (3) she’s FUNNY! (and funny in that she doesn’t make bitchy remarks but has made me laugh out loud TWICE! Which is two times more often than anyone else – ask me and I’ll tell you)

Anyway, sorry for the long message.

Cheers!

PS – Why does showing that Rumsfeld went to Iraq invalidate evidence showing GG went to Iraq? The point of that is that Rumsfeld went there to sell arms. Okay, I understand that but why was GG there? Why does everyone say ‘I’m sympathetic to GG’s politics’ as if GG can’t be extracted from the anti-war message. Obvious point but anti-war campaigners should ditch GG straight away, might show seriousness.

bassnation
27-01-2006, 09:52 AM
firstly, welcome to dissensus droopy!


PS – Why does showing that Rumsfeld went to Iraq invalidate evidence showing GG went to Iraq? The point of that is that Rumsfeld went there to sell arms. Okay, I understand that but why was GG there? Why does everyone say ‘I’m sympathetic to GG’s politics’ as if GG can’t be extracted from the anti-war message. Obvious point but anti-war campaigners should ditch GG straight away, might show seriousness.

didn't gg go to iraq on some kind of fact-finding mission about the unfairness of sanctions? thats a long way from what rumsfeld went for. although sucking up to saddam in the way that he did left a nasty taste in the mouth no matter what his intentions.

personally i agree that hes not been good for the anti-war movement. a lot of people have doubts about him and his motives and his leadership definitely puts people off.

luka
27-01-2006, 10:20 AM
when i was just reading about CBB in the star i was on the side of chantelle etc but when i actually started watching it i had to switch alligiences. you start to understand why pete burns is so rude to them.

i thought this was funny by the way

'and Galloway is what? – the daddy you never had by the sound of it.'

jasonh
27-01-2006, 04:43 PM
Egomaniacal sure, good. But misognyistic, what's the evidence for that? Because he didn't have any time for Traci, Chantelle and poor liccle Jodie? If they were representative of all women, I'd be misogynistic, and rightly so.

Great post overall, some of which I do agree with (after some thought on the matter). However, just because the three women mentioned are obviously a bit thick, doesn't mean he could treat them so obviously badly (I wouldn't). His behaviour towards Rula and Fariah was pretty awful at times as well. Not forgetting his "ex"-wife (back in the real world).

Like I said, I do sneakily admire GG for his performance before Congress, but CBB has made me lose a bit of respect for him. Then again, I don't particularly like any of the housemates for one reason or another, simply because they manage to illustrate how vacuous and dull the vast majority of our celebrity culture is. It would be perfectly ironic if Chantelle did win, even though she is as dull as the rest of them.

CBB - a perfect illustration of Sartre's point that "hell is other people"!

Droopy
27-01-2006, 04:52 PM
didn't gg go to iraq on some kind of fact-finding mission about the unfairness of sanctions? thats a long way from what rumsfeld went for. although sucking up to saddam in the way that he did left a nasty taste in the mouth no matter what his intentions.

Haha didn’t actually expect an answer to why Galloway went over . I thought I was making a stronger point when I wrote that but not sure what I was getting at apart from defending Galloway according to Rumsfeld’s standards isn’t that convincing.


when i was just reading about CBB in the star i was on the side of chantelle etc but when i actually started watching it i had to switch alligiences. you start to understand why pete burns is so rude to them.

I know what you mean although I’m a pathetic BB viewer in that I like it better when they’re all getting on and nothing’s happening and it’s really BORING so not surprising I don’t like Pete. Having said that none of them seemed that bothered about Pete’s attacks and he hardly got any nominations after the first week so who cares.

Just watching Paul Morley on Richard and Judy and he’s for Chantelle so that makes me feel better. Amanda Platell is for Pete Burns if anyone’s interested.

luka
18-04-2017, 01:49 PM
Paul Hotflush (who is he again?) predicting the rise of Cameron. Mark Fisher, Owen Hatherley and Nina Power arguing with the likes of 'Gabriel from Heatwave' and one of the geezers from The Black Dog.

craner
18-04-2017, 01:59 PM
Random.

baboon2004
18-04-2017, 02:17 PM
Isn't that post-dubstep house titan Scuba, who said that Dissensians were a 'bunch of cunts' (or something similar)?

droid
18-04-2017, 02:25 PM
Also IIRC a Mad Mel level Zionist.