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View Full Version : what do you call it garage?



bun-u
02-12-2004, 11:02 PM
...or grime...??

This one is running on the rwd forum, so thought I'd push for some thoughs here.

Crazy Titich (taken from rwd thread):

"It seems like everyone is trying to find their own bit and do their own thing. You got Wiley doing his eski thing, some people are doing sublow and all that jazz. But I got an idea, how about we just call it garage. Let's make it simple. When you say grime it does carry bad things, if I'm a yout and I'm going to a grime rave, what mentality do you think I'm going with? It's a crime rave. I'm going to be grimey. People don't understand the power of words.".
(Tense, Nov 2004)
[I]

Personally I also much prefer to call it 'garage'. 'Grime' feels wierd to say (and I do occasionally use it). It's use seems to be robbing the scene of its history, inviting people in who will not swing with something that lets say has Craig David or (even) So Solid connotations. Back in the UK Dance day, we had big threads about scenes being 'bagged', 'garage' becoming 'speed garage', then '2 step' and before that 'jungle' becoming 'd'n'b'. Maybe those fanatical debates about the naming of splinter dance scenes all a bit quaint now, but maybe today's antitode to that is to stick an old label onto something which is constantly changing (maybe also an antitode to marketing - i.e. the same badge for a constantly evolving/improving product). I love the fact that 'garage' describes so much music, and I mean that in just the London massive post 96 sense!

originaldrum
03-12-2004, 01:30 AM
i'm guilty of calling it grime since i heard it referred to as that. Garage is a funny word for me because of the way we pronounce it (kind of like garaaahge) not me personally cause i'm a garridge boy from way back.

i was always fond of the "genre with no name" , i don't know why really, prolly some imaginary fantasy world i've created which will not translate on these fair pages.....

with grime i see the term actually representing the people and areas it comes from, not the fans and bloggers and general populace who "get into it" but more so the youngers and the gun chat and the stripped down riddims that forged the sound (and without those things it would not be what it is today)

but

i'd rather call grime garage then dubstep breaks though...

mpc
03-12-2004, 01:40 AM
the reason grime isn't just called garage is because it sounds completely different to anything from the uk garage scene. just in terms of production, it is completely different to the anything that came before it in that scene. i agree that it's silly to have lots of labels for tiny sub-genres, but i honestly don't think it's correct to label grime as uk garage.

cooper
03-12-2004, 09:39 PM
the reason grime isn't just called garage is because it sounds completely different to anything from the uk garage scene. just in terms of production, it is completely different to the anything that came before it in that scene.

uk garage circa 2000 had almost nothing to do with uk garage circa 1996 in terms of production, unless you count the 4x4 stuff which was even then sounding dated. by 2000 r'n'b had replaced us garage in terms of vocal influences, the jungle influences (ragga chat, basslines) had taken hold, and obviously the old beats were completely different from 2-step.

it's perfect to call it garage, because at this point the name itself is completely denatured, even more so than in the heyday of 2-step when it was meant to evoke the sunday scene parties etc., "house and garage" = paradise lost. grime is so relentlessly ambitious that it doesn't seem to have the sense of nostalgia or canonization of veterans that even hip-hop has.

mpc
03-12-2004, 10:59 PM
uk garage circa 2000 had almost nothing to do with uk garage circa 1996 in terms of production, unless you count the 4x4 stuff which was even then sounding dated. r'n'b had replaced us garage in terms of vocal influences, the jungle influences (ragga chat, basslines) hadn't taken hold, and obviously the old beats were completely different from 2-step.

ok, fair enough.



it's perfect to call it garage, because at this point the name itself is completely denatured, even more so than in the heyday of 2-step when it was meant to evoke the sunday scene parties etc., "house and garage" = paradise lost. grime is so relentlessly ambitious that it doesn't seem to have the sense of nostalgia or canonization of veterans that even hip-hop has.


i disagree. the term uk garage still evokes visions of sped up rnb diva vocals. although the grime scene now is heavily influenced by rnb and hip hop, i think it would ridiculous to label grime as garage. blah blah blah. i'm not really one for discussions.

sufi
03-12-2004, 11:19 PM
so how do you pronounce it?

in london obviously: garridge

rural area (maybe in n london?? :eek: ) : garrarge

how is it pronounced in the US?

mms
04-12-2004, 12:09 PM
pronounced gararj in the states innit.

personally it's too much of a leap to call the stuff that roll deep etc do garidge, very little links tinchy strider or demon to larry levan
maybe we could get jeremy deller to sort it out, draw a big spider graph and that, linking it all back to 24 hour garages or something ;)
then he could do a video with dizzie rascal and lady soverign mcing over a backing of the remaining members of the salsoul orchestra in a garage forecourt up the m25.
he can have that one for free, but i'd have to protest about him nicking my idea outside the gallery when it's shown.

hint
04-12-2004, 12:20 PM
very little links tinchy strider or demon to larry levan

aye - there's the rub

grime has much more in common with dancehall and hip hop than disco and house (which is the part of the audio spectrum in which I'd place garage, in all its forms (apart from garage rock, natch ;) ) ).

boomnoise
04-12-2004, 02:06 PM
I think Fiddy is pretty much OTM when she says that Grime is more about a culture and a way of life rather than a musical form which is a sum of its musical parts and influences. Thinking about grime as culture lends itself to a direct comparison with hiphop - so what are Grime's elements? I reckon:

1) Pirates 2)Dances/Raves 3)Dubplates 4) the street/blog nexus (obviously the most contentious)

Along with all this i think an intrinsic part of grime culture is the genre fractals; the relationship uk 'garage' now has with hip hop, dancehall, dub, ukg, r&b etc and its musical output. The fact that it is causing us to discuss its context and wot we call it is indicative of the fact there is something bigger going on.

Grime is an attribute not a category.

Pearsall
06-12-2004, 06:13 AM
pronounced gararj in the states innit.

'guhraj' is more like it. ;)


personally it's too much of a leap to call the stuff that roll deep etc do garidge, very little links tinchy strider or demon to larry levan
maybe we could get jeremy deller to sort it out, draw a big spider graph and that, linking it all back to 24 hour garages or something ;)
then he could do a video with dizzie rascal and lady soverign mcing over a backing of the remaining members of the salsoul orchestra in a garage forecourt up the m25.
he can have that one for free, but i'd have to protest about him nicking my idea outside the gallery when it's shown.

You could probably do it like Ishkur did his electronic music guide (see here (http://www.ishkur.com/music/#)).

captain easychord
07-12-2004, 06:19 PM
pronounced gararj in the states innit.

in toronto we pronounce it the way you do, garridj. it a useful way of drawing a distinction from gararj which always means the punk rock variety.

bun-u
09-12-2004, 04:22 PM
The thing is I like the ‘garage’ tag for paradoxical reasons. Firstly cos its an anti-label, a no logo music genre that says you have to delve a bit deeper for any level of engagement with the music. The second reason is that labelling the music ‘grime’, I think, breaks it from its dance music origins and sets up its re-reading to be assimilated into rap’s nuum.
Yes of course, I agree that Tynchy and Levan do not belong in the same category, but by the same token nor do Levan and Groove Chronicles. UK garage has never been about the Paradise Garage (in the same way as the Levan had nothing to do with the Misunderstood!). So we’re talking “UK garage” (post 96), which has seen massive musical change, reference points, styles etc etc …. but seen as I’ve mentioned them, take a listen to Groove Chronicles’ ‘black puppet’ from around 99 to hear the link between then and now.

While I’m here…(and not knowing whether there is a more appropriate place to put this?)
I put on a monthly shindig in Clerkenwell, London.
The place is call Hat On The Wall, Hatton Wall off Clerkenwell Rd, EC1
The next one is tomorrow (Friday 10th Dec), from 10 till after 2pm
It’s free, the place has a decent atmosphere
Music – the sound system not great, but the selections more than make up…will play a lot of stuff discussed here (may draw the line at prog)

Diggedy Derek
09-12-2004, 06:01 PM
That sounds good, Bun-U (I guess such things could be stuck on the calendar as well). I agree with garage as an anti-definition, too- I always like the fact that 2-step would refer itself, intentionally fuzzily, as "house and garage", forcing you as you say to delve deeper....