Is Israel like Apartheid South Africa?

IdleRich

IdleRich
For two days this week the Guardian (in their G2 section) ran a big article comparing and contrasting (but mainly comparing) Israel with Apartheid SA. Personally I thought that it made some interesting and valid points but at times was heavy-handed and quite one-sided. I wondered if anyone else read these articles and what they thought.
 

D7_bohs

Well-known member
Read the article and thought, like you, it made some valid points, but effectively it relied on a slippery slope argument, and such arguments are never valid. What is distinctive about Israel, and was distinctive about the Apartheid SA (and is distinctive about post- agreement Northern Ireland) is a legal apparatus of explicit differentiation amonst citizens according to their ethnicity and/or religion, creating wa situation where one has rights concommitant with, and dependent on, one's membership of a group.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
a legal apparatus of explicit differentiation amonst citizens according to their ethnicity and/or religion, creating wa situation where one has rights concommitant with, and dependent on, one's membership of a group.

And that cannot be right. I think it's enough to draw attention to this fact and say that Israel is a racist society (which I think it is) without trying to show that it is the same kind of society as existed in South Africa.
What I didn't like about the article was the way it had on one side of the page a picture of a black South African being hassled by the police and on the other side a Palestinian guy being hassled by the police as though that was supposed to show some kind of parallel between the two societies. On another page they had a picture of a whites only beach and compared that to a picture of (an unrestricted) pool in Israel in which only Jews were visible, I thought that that was pretty unconstructive.
 

BewareTheFriendlyStranger

pioneers of the groove
i read the article a couple of days back. Wasn't Israel also apartheid South Africa's biggest ally? Diamond trade, nuclear technology, etc. ? There is more to it than just a comparison of events.
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
Yes, Israel IS like apartheid, but then White SOuth Efrican never had any historical or genetic history to the land to begin with. And have you ever met South African Jews, man they make Austrian Nazis look civilised!!

It's amazing after being persecuted and gassed by the Nazis they are now racists themselves. It's a disgrace.

Maybe Hitler didn't do a good enough job, but then again, the Arabs were allies with the Nazis and Eyetalians during WW2 , so it's tit for tat really. The Jews are the true source of all evil, and they use their intellectual 'victimhood' to hide the fact that they are really fascists that want to destroy Muslims and are the ROOT CORE reason why there is global terrorism. Everyone else is innocent, coz the Jews started it to gain power in the world through fear and control of the world banks, according to my references.

But considering the Guardian is an English paper, and the English obstained from voting for the creation of Israel coz they lost one of their last colonies, I'll prolly wipe my arse with such an article.

But I still reckon Israel is the new South Africa, so I might right a funky protest song. i wonder if Lou Reed and Deb Harry will take part in it?
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
"Wasn't Israel also apartheid South Africa's biggest ally? Diamond trade, nuclear technology, etc. ?"

Apparently so, they made much of this in the article. The Israelis say that they made certain that they condemned the actual fact of Apartheid while they did this but I think that the actions are more important than the words.

"English obstained from voting for the creation of Israel coz they lost one of their last colonies"

I thought that the English (Balfour Declaration etc) where fairly instrumental in allowing Israel to come into existence.
 
D

droid

Guest
Buick6 said:
Yes, Israel IS like apartheid, but then White SOuth Efrican never had any historical or genetic history to the land to begin with. And have you ever met South African Jews, man they make Austrian Nazis look civilised!!

It's amazing after being persecuted and gassed by the Nazis they are now racists themselves. It's a disgrace.

Maybe Hitler didn't do a good enough job, but then again, the Arabs were allies with the Nazis and Eyetalians during WW2 , so it's tit for tat really. The Jews are the true source of all evil, and they use their intellectual 'victimhood' to hide the fact that they are really fascists that want to destroy Muslims and are the ROOT CORE reason why there is global terrorism. Everyone else is innocent, coz the Jews started it to gain power in the world through fear and control of the world banks, according to my references.

But considering the Guardian is an English paper, and the English obstained from voting for the creation of Israel coz they lost one of their last colonies, I'll prolly wipe my arse with such an article.

But I still reckon Israel is the new South Africa, so I might right a funky protest song. i wonder if Lou Reed and Deb Harry will take part in it?


You really are a complete muppet arent you? Someone asks for serious opinions on Israel and this is what you have to offer - a pathetic parody of a point of view that has never been put forward on this board and exists only in your head... :confused:

What exactly are you trying to prove?
 
D

droid

Guest
IdleRich said:
Apparently so, they made much of this in the article. The Israelis say that they made certain that they condemned the actual fact of Apartheid while they did this but I think that the actions are more important than the words.

I thought that the English (Balfour Declaration etc) where fairly instrumental in allowing Israel to come into existence.

Utterly instrumental in fact.

The UK did abstain on UN resolution 181 in 1947, presumably as they were still conducting military and civil operations in Palestine at the time, and due to the fact that they had been at the recieving end of a vicious campaign of (and theres no other way to describe it) Zionist terrorism. Its also worth pointing out that it was the British under Attlee who declared the mandate 'unworkable' and reffered the matter to the UN - hardly the actions of a nation that 'doesnt want to lose its last colony' - which btw is a load of toss. What about Northern Ireland for example?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"What exactly are you trying to prove?"

I wondered the same thing.
Going back to the original article, I was surprised at the lack of response from the Jewish community to what I thought was a rather biased article. Especially in an environment where the C of E making the (I thought) fairly uncontroversial decision not to invest in a company that makes bulldozers that are used in the occupied territories leads to them being accused of anti-semitism.
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
droid said:
You really are a complete muppet arent you? Someone asks for serious opinions on Israel and this is what you have to offer - a pathetic parody of a point of view that has never been put forward on this board and exists only in your head... :confused:

What exactly are you trying to prove?

That every action has an opposite and equal reaction.
 
D

droid

Guest
Buick6 said:
That every action has an opposite and equal reaction.

Well you're failing miserably... All youve demonstrated so far is your own ignorance and obnoxiousness... :p
 
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satanmcnugget

Well-known member
"only worse"

agreed


apartheid is a form on internal nationalism/ghettoism...the israel/palestine thingy is nationalism/ghettoism in its purest form...prolly irreconcilable :((((((((((


hearbreaking
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
Technically is 'seems' like apartheid, but I don't know my facts, but did South Africa build universitieis, employ blacks and provide other services for them like Israel have done for the Palestinians?

But then again, I suppose Jewish Syrians and Iranians would probably live in the equal if not worse racial/segregal/persecutal conditions as the Israeli Palestinians or people of other denominations do in Isreal. Heck, the Jewish Ethiopians get treated like second class citizens there as well, those fucking Ashkenazi's are a bunch of cunts, why did they let them filter back from Europe??l!

Anyway, what I do know is that closet anti-semitism or Jew-envy is alive and well amongst certain posters on Dissensus, some of the bloke on here are like characters out of Python's 'meaning of life'. Get over it guys, if yr envious of Jewish talent/shrewdness/nerve or how you say it 'evil', come up with a better 'system' to placate your frustrations and provide some justice in the world. Don't blame me if Marx and Freud and Chomsky were/are Yids, I didn't force you to read them - maybe you should make some sort of political, intellectual ideology out of Joyce or Wilde or Bono or that Said bloke?
 
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jenks

thread death
Buick6 said:
Technically is 'seems' like apartheid, but I don't know my facts, but did South Africa build universitieis, employ blacks and provide other services for them like Israel have done for the Palestinians?

But then again, I suppose Jewish Syrians and Iranians would probably live in the equal if not worse racial/segregal/persecutal conditions as the Israeli Palestinians or people of other denominations do in Isreal. Heck, the Jewish Ethiopians get treated like second class citizens there as well, those fucking Ashkenazi's are a bunch of cunts, why did they let them filter back from Europe??l!

Anyway, what I do know is that closet anti-semitism or Jew-envy is alive and well amongst certain posters on Dissensus, some of the bloke on here are like characters out of Python's 'meaning of life'. Get over it guys, if yr envious of Jewish talent/shrewdness/nerve or how you say it 'evil', come up with a better 'system' to placate your frustrations and provide some justice in the world. Don't blame me if Marx and Freud and Chomsky were/are Yids, I didn't force you to read them - maybe you should make some sort of political, intellectual ideology out of Joyce or Wilde or Bono or that Said bloke?

sorry but what are you talking about?

if you are deliberately trolling then maybe more fool me for biting but shit this is some of the most stupid i've read on this board in a long time
 

Padraig

Banned
Am I permitted to laugh, or would that be considered as too anti-Zionist?

Don't blame me if Marx and Freud and Chomsky were/are Yids, I didn't force you to read them - maybe you should make some sort of political, intellectual ideology out of Joyce or Wilde or Bono or that Said bloke?

Well, Marx would get on just grand with Wilde, admiring his fetish for Dorian Grey rather than your fetish for irridentist, racist nationalism, Freud would have had Joyce as his literary-aesthetic "beyond the pleasure principle" test case par excellence, Chomsky and the late Said were of course committed fellow-colleagues in universal justice ... but you would really need to consider re-launching Bono back up his Neo-con/Zionist ass, where the colonic passages Still Have No Name ...

And you forgot to mention Einstein, who, as we all know, would have ecstatically waxed lyrical with all of those fundamentalist Zionist Creationists ... or Woody Allen, who's just cancelled his flight to the Hollywood version of Munich, or Bob Dylan, who prefers to preach Armageddon salvationism within the confines of his spartan bedroom, or ... etc.


Otherwise, everything in your post is just hilariously nice and blandy.
 
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Buick6

too punk to drunk
Padraig said:
Am I permitted to laugh, or would that be considered as too anti-Zionist?



Well, Marx would get on just grand with Wilde, admiring his fetish for Dorian Grey rather than your fetish for irridentist, racist nationalism, Freud would have had Joyce as his literary-aesthetic "beyond the pleasure principle" test case par excellence, Chomsky and the late Said were of course committed fellow-colleagues in universal justice ... but you would really need to consider re-launching Bono back up his Neo-con/Zionist ass, where the colonic passages Still Have No Name ...

And you forgot to mention Einstein, who, as we all know, would have ecstatically waxed lyrical with all of those fundamentalist Zionist Creationists ... or Woody Allen, who's just cancelled his flight to the Hollywood version of Munich, or Bob Dylan, who prefers to preach Armageddon salvationism within the confines of his spartan bedroom, or ... etc.


Otherwise, everything in your post is just hilariously nice and blandy.

If you knobheads spent as much time analysing bodies-without-organs-Lacan-meets-David-Lynch-movies-and-Middle-East-post-capitalistic-Marxist theories as you would inventing something of greater worth than to your little audience of well-techified bedsit-boys, maybe you lot would be worth something more than just shitty InternErd blogs and sexless wank offs about the same thing ie. Post-modernia-post-capitalasia-post-Eshun-Reynolds-rock-theoretica) ..I mean the biggest joke is all you guys say EXACTLY the SAME THINGS and HAVE EXACTLy THE SAME IDEAS, so talk about being 'nice and blandy'.

It's all just impotent shouting, really.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
"If you knobheads spent as much time analysing bodies-without-organs-Lacan-meets-David-Lynch-movies-and-Middle-East-post-capitalistic-Marxist theories as you would inventing something of greater worth than to your little audience of well-techified bedsit-boys, maybe you lot would be worth something more than just shitty InternErd blogs and sexless wank offs about the same thing ie. Post-modernia-post-capitalasia-post-Eshun-Reynolds-rock-theoretica)"

You write so badly I can never work out what you mean (though at least you didn't make any spelling mistakes this time). There's some kind of insult going on here but that's about all I can get out of it.
Can you try putting the points you're making with your posts on this subject into language that I can understand?
 
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