Marriage, babies and mental health

Paul Hotflush

techno head

mms

sometimes
Paul Hotflush said:
Here's a couple of news stories:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4733330.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Society/children/story/0,,1714522,00.html

IMO this should be treated as one of the biggest social issues in the UK, especially given the apalling mental health provision on the NHS. Should the government get into a preventative cure for this problem (i.e. addressing the issue of long-term commitment between parents)? Or would that be a step too far for the state?

i find those statistics odd, mental health is affected thru various reasons, including genetics etc.
it's a very easy thing to look st those figures and see a correlation if that's what you want to see but family breakup and the reasons for it are as unpredicatabe as a person's mental health and the factors that affect that too.
There is also no strong evidence to base these figures against as the process of assessing, treating. and recognising mental health is modern and constantly shifting.. i'd like to know what these parameters are, especially as the way mental health problems are diagnosed and treated in this country, as well as non mental health issues that are often diagnosed on a whim is very outdated and rather tyranical.

there also seems to be more to the picture of parents keeping together as well.
having a child is one of the most important decisions a person can make, shouldn't the basis of the argument be to assess how great that responsibility is, rather than the idea of the importance of wedlock?
 

Paul Hotflush

techno head
mms said:
There is also no strong evidence to base these figures against as the process of assessing, treating and recognising mental health is modern and constantly shifting..

Actually there's plenty of evidence, and it all points to various behavioural disorders (which may or may not be defined as mental illness) being vastly more common when parents are not living together and actively involved in the child's upbringing.
 

D7_bohs

Well-known member
it would be just as easy to use the same figures to prove that poverty is a main cause of mental health problems in children - a high proportion - most?- single parent families are on state- benefits; who's to say that material deprivation, rather than the absence of a second parent, is not the cause of the mental health issues detailed in these reports?
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
Paul Hotflush said:
IMO this should be treated as one of the biggest social issues in the UK, especially given the apalling mental health provision on the NHS

so the real issue is mental health provision no? not 'single parents'

i don't think its a particularly radical position to say that of course, in an ideal world, two parents bringing up children in a happy, loving environment is the best way to nurture happy content individuals, but that rather ignores factors such as 'reality'.
 

Paul Hotflush

techno head
Two separate issues. One is a social phenomenon hugely damaging to the nation's children, the other is a health policy problem. I was asking about the former.

To dismiss this as "reality" seems to be getting into the areas I get accused of habiting on foreign policy issues. The extent of this reality is far from evenly felt across countries, for a start...

D7_bohs said:
it would be just as easy to use the same figures to prove that poverty is a main cause of mental health problems in children - a high proportion - most?- single parent families are on state- benefits; who's to say that material deprivation, rather than the absence of a second parent, is not the cause of the mental health issues detailed in these reports?

LOL @ the above.
 

bassnation

the abyss
Paul Hotflush said:
To dismiss this as "reality" seems to be getting into the areas I get accused of habiting on foreign policy issues. The extent of this reality is far from evenly felt across countries, for a start...

its true that there are differences in divorce rates with countries - in some places there might be a huge social stigma attached to seperation.

remember this is the way things used to be in the uk - even if people were deeply unhappy, they'd stay together - but have lots of arguments or coldness. do you think thats better for kids development and mental health? whats the stats for countries with low divorce rates?

people are always going to fall out of love with one another, thats absolutely beyond dispute. what would your solution be?

not into giving single mothers a drubbing, the ones i know do an amazing job under very difficult circumstances.
 
D

droid

Guest
Just a brief interjection. Ireland has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, but (historically) one of the lowest divorce rates, as divorce was illegal here until the late-90's.

Would this have any relevance? Irish statistics on the mental health of the young before and after the divorce referendum might offer a useful 'control group' to those interested in serious research.
 
If you look at the stats given in the Guardian piece, tho, it's not clear that it is 'vastly more common' for kids in single parent families to be worse off mental-health-wise, as Paul Menopause suggests. For example:

'Girls living with cohabiting parents fared better, with around 10% suffering from mental disorders. The figure for those living with an unmarried single parent was around 12%.'

A 2% difference? Taking into account obvious tendencies in income between cohabiting and single parent families, this really doesn't imply that there's a great deal in it (what 10-12% of girls in a cheery democratic capitalistic society are doing with mental health problems in the first place is another question of course).
 

D7_bohs

Well-known member
droid said:
Just a brief interjection. Ireland has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, but (historically) one of the lowest divorce rates, as divorce was illegal here until the late-90's.

Would this have any relevance? Irish statistics on the mental health of the young before and after the divorce referendum might offer a useful 'control group' to those interested in serious research.

....I'm guessing such statistics would show that young people in Ireland are inveterately miserable.
 

bassnation

the abyss
infinite thought said:
Shackles, clitorodectomies, social stigma, fines, that sort of thing, probably...

bring back the opprobrium associated with being a bastard. that would lead to a massive reduction in mental health problems.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Now come on people!

Mr Hotflush may have something very innovative up his sleeve which will ensure that me and my partner stay together in perfect harmoneee for the rest of our lives and don't mess up our kid too much.

I think that would be worth hearing out, especially if it involves us getting lots and lots of money.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
Paul Hotflush said:
LOL @ the above.

why?
both poor mental health* and single parenthood have a range of factors influencing their probability. to ignore the complex relationships that exist between these various topics, which should include amongst other things poverty, is simplistic at best.








*to coin a phrase- not to start on concepts of health and illness
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
Paul Hotflush said:
Actually there's plenty of evidence, and it all points to various behavioural disorders being vastly more common when parents are not living together and actively involved in the child's upbringing.

ofcourse there is.

I'm sure we all know about the famous experiment with chimps: the baby chimps taken away from its mother and raised with bottled milk by lab technicians showed significantly increased inclination toward aggressive behavior and much greater capacity for violence in adulthood.

this and findings from many other recent studies have placed much more importance in infant development as direct cause for adult behavior.

humans, just like chimps, are pack animals. their young are supposed to be raised by a GROUP of adults in an EXTENDED family, where the child receives affection and learns from MANY adults, not just 2 parents. I believe this is the natural and healthy way for a baby to grow up.

so the nuclear family is ALREADY a greatly reduced and limited environment for a baby to grow up, the relative isolation I'm sure having significant effects on its life in many ways. (maybe that's why we all like brooding dark electronic music) :)
 
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