My frustration with Dn'B listeners in the states

K

Keith P

draw for the drumstick
Is it just me it do Dn'B heads come across as having low attention spans sometimes? I mean I constantly encounter people who can't listen to anything lower than 172 bpm. Even then you might find some breaks listeners in the lot but you'll never catch them gravitating towards music that has space in it, such as grime dubstep etc.

It has to be one of my biggest pet peeves. I'd imagine there has to be a certain amount of substance abuse going on in order to listen to border line gabber every waking hour of the day.

I'm not trying to star a genre war here but I don't know how someone could be a well rounded DJ or musician and listen to music at the same tempo, with the same formulaic patterns ALL THE TIME.

/end rant
 
D

droid

Guest
Keith P said:
I'm not trying to star a genre war here but I don't know how someone could be a well rounded DJ or musician and listen to music at the same tempo, with the same formulaic patterns ALL THE TIME.

/end rant
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Simple - they're not 'well rounded' at all.

Dont get me started on this... try getting D+B heads to dance to anything made before 96... :mad:


(Its a generational and not a geographical phenomenon btw...)
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
droid said:
Simple - they're not 'well rounded' at all.

Dont get me started on this... try getting D+B heads to dance to anything made before 96... :mad:


(Its a generational and not a geographical phenomenon btw...)
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why would people want to focus on the shittest part of the genres history and skip all the good stuff?
 
D

droid

Guest
bassnation said:
why would people want to focus on the shittest part of the genres history and skip all the good stuff?
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Because (and heres where I sound like a precocious old grandad) - they dont know any better! ;)

To be fair, there is a good bit of old skool appreciation here in Dublin - mainly because our 'scene' is dominated by some fairly old skool DJs and producers, but for the waves of people who got in D+B post 98 stuff like Valves first release (or maybe 'Torque') is year zero for D+B - and infortunately they're the majority...
 
D

DJ PIMP

Well-known member
A micro-generational thing?

Jungle and early dnb is for old people(30ish+)/gravers, newer dnb is whats doing it now. You can see the appeal if you can imagine you're young and in the phase where harder and faster = awesomer. Its like acid house vs ardkore in terms of velocity/energy levels.

I said to a friend once "hardness isn't everything", he shrugged "but it is something."
 
K

Kuma

The Konspirator
Because (and heres where I sound like a precocious old grandad) - they dont know any better!

Precisely. the turnover is ridiculous, so many kids coming and going out of the genre so fast that Shake Your Body and Vault are ground zero for them
 
subvert47

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
bleep said:
A micro-generational thing?

Jungle and early dnb is for old people(30ish+)/gravers, newer dnb is whats doing it now. You can see the appeal if you can imagine you're young and in the phase where harder and faster = awesomer. Its like acid house vs ardkore in terms of velocity/energy levels.

I said to a friend once "hardness isn't everything", he shrugged "but it is something."
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hard is fine, but most new dnb is just corny

Goldie said:
I could sit here and make bouncy bollocks all day long but I don't want to bounce around a bouncy castle like a knob-head.
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:p
 
B

boosted

Active member
The generational gap thing is certainly the main reason I stopped paying attention to D'N'B. When I was in my early 20's and raving in the early 90's I liked jungle for the hardcore qualities in it... Just getting crazy at a party and vibing on the drum and bass. I had a huge d'n'b party running in my city up until about 1999 or so. I notice one day that I was now 30 and the majority of the people coming out were in their late teens to early twenties ... same age as I was when I got into hardcore.

The realization for me was, there wasn't anyone left in the scene I could relate to really. To be honest, the shit just got old to me after almost ten years of listening to it. UKG, brokenbeat and some other newer sounds seem to be where I find all the old heads I used to vibe with in the Jungle days.
 
D

DJ PIMP

Well-known member
subvert47 said:
hard is fine, but most new dnb is just corny
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ukgarage sampling hardkore and jungle seemed to trigger the old skool revival in dnb from a few years back... I remember reading a comment from Goldie saying something like 'kids are hearing all these sounds and its like hang on, lets show them where it really comes from"... and I've wondered if the kind of simplistic riffs / melodies that came about in clownstep type tunes were a response to what was happening in grime - tho never listened to enough of either to form an opinion. Altho cats like Pendulum have taken it in another direction with the hair/stadium rock riff thing, which would sync with people into dnb now getting a bit nostalgic for their yoof or their older siblings record collections :>

Is it just me or does the electronic music scene smack of the same eternal adolescence/delayed adulthood as the video game and collectable toy markets etc?

"You took the end out of the weekend".
 
M

Melchior

Taking History Too Far
Why is it so difficult for people here to imagine that

PEOPLE SIMPLY LIKE DIFFERENT STUFF THAN YOU!!!

Imagine if the board was filled with people who wanted garage to go back to 2 Step - "These kids, they all want the hardness and the rough mcs blah blah blah"

I got into DnB kinda lte (I'm 29 for what that's worth) and what appealed to me was the speed and the hardness. I like the fruity vocals as well. Yes, there was a lof of substance abuse as well, but that was aprt of the fun. And while I like ragga jungle stuff, I also like Valve and Full Cycle releases and I find a lot of the slower and more spacey early 90s drum and bass a bit fucking dull.

A lof of this stuff is simply subjective taste. You'll never get anywhere going 'why do so many people like such shit music?' People just like different music and scens change. For all the 'it was better back then' DnB grognardism that goes on here imagine for a second that it hadn't moved on and then go listen to a contemporary trad jazz band.

I totally understand people's disappointment that the music the loved has changed (I feel it with hardcore punk) but the sense of entitlement - that it never should of changed because you didn't want it too - is a bit boring.
 
K

Keith P

draw for the drumstick
Melchior said:
Why is it so difficult for people here to imagine that

PEOPLE SIMPLY LIKE DIFFERENT STUFF THAN YOU!!!

Imagine if the board was filled with people who wanted garage to go back to 2 Step - "These kids, they all want the hardness and the rough mcs blah blah blah"

I got into DnB kinda lte (I'm 29 for what that's worth) and what appealed to me was the speed and the hardness. I like the fruity vocals as well. Yes, there was a lof of substance abuse as well, but that was aprt of the fun. And while I like ragga jungle stuff, I also like Valve and Full Cycle releases and I find a lot of the slower and more spacey early 90s drum and bass a bit fucking dull.

A lof of this stuff is simply subjective taste. You'll never get anywhere going 'why do so many people like such shit music?' People just like different music and scens change. For all the 'it was better back then' DnB grognardism that goes on here imagine for a second that it hadn't moved on and then go listen to a contemporary trad jazz band.

I totally understand people's disappointment that the music the loved has changed (I feel it with hardcore punk) but the sense of entitlement - that it never should of changed because you didn't want it too - is a bit boring.
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There's nothing wrong with listening to Dn'B. I still make it out to some shows and support our local nights but my main problem is with the point your making. There's too much dominance from these staple genres and not enough progression into other sounds or the acceptance of other sounds.
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
Melchior said:
Why is it so difficult for people here to imagine that

PEOPLE SIMPLY LIKE DIFFERENT STUFF THAN YOU!!!
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what you are appealing for here is just plain old objectivity which just isn't possible or desirable with things like music.

Melchior said:
Imagine if the board was filled with people who wanted garage to go back to 2 Step - "These kids, they all want the hardness and the rough mcs blah blah blah"
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the big difference being that grime is good so no-one wants a return to a previous eras quality - whereas modern dnb has totally lost it.

change is always welcome if its actually an improvement.
 
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Melchior

Taking History Too Far
I've been thinkign about my ost a bit today. I was probably a little 'red and caps' if you know what I mean. The DnB bashing on here is a pet peeve of mine, despite the fact that I have nest to no involvement int he scene these days.

Keith P said:
There's nothing wrong with listening to Dn'B. I still make it out to some shows and support our local nights but my main problem is with the point your making. There's too much dominance from these staple genres and not enough progression into other sounds or the acceptance of other sounds.
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That's fair enough. I always wanted more ragga old school stuff in the dance and was never satisfied at all in NZ.


bassnation said:
what you are appealing for here is just plain old objectivity which just isn't possible or desirable with things like music.
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I don't want objectivity, just a recognition that our own subjectivities aren't necesarily any more accurate that anyone elses. I think plenty of music is shit, but I'm willing to recognise that that's my problem not the person's listening to the 'shit music'.

the big difference being that grime is good so no-one wants a return to a previous eras quality - whereas modern dnb has totally lost it.
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Well, the issue really is that despite it's roots, grime has nothing really to do with ukg most of the time. But lots of us wish UKG was still around. There's even a thread on that exact thing here!

change is always welcome if its actually an improvement.
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Natch.
 
subvert47

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
Melchior said:
A lof of this stuff is simply subjective taste. You'll never get anywhere going 'why do so many people like such shit music?' People just like different music and scens change. For all the 'it was better back then' DnB grognardism that goes on here imagine for a second that it hadn't moved on and then go listen to a contemporary trad jazz band.
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Jazz is a bad analogy. The constant change in jazz was always driven by innovation, people trying new things, moving the music forwards. Whereas the main reason people complain about dnb is because it lost that impetus and the new music seems like a step backwards. Sure you can still like it or not. That's not really saying anything at all.
 
M

Melchior

Taking History Too Far
subvert47 said:
Jazz is a bad analogy. The constant change in jazz was always driven by innovation, people trying new things, moving the music forwards. Whereas the main reason people complain about dnb is because it lost that impetus and the new music seems like a step backwards. Sure you can still like it or not. That's not really saying anything at all.
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I was thinking of the sort of dixie land jazz stuff that has been played note for note the same for ever. Northern soul is sort oft he same idea. It was an allusion to a conversation on here about uk hip hop a while back.
 
D

DJ PIMP

Well-known member
Thought this was worth the cross-post. Producer Ho-Chi talking in a DOA Q&A... The question:

2) do you think d&b has many taboo's that prevent it from expanding ? what are they do you feel?
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His reply:

2. I think the strong culture of dnb is both a gift and a curse. Ultimately i think there is to much sentimenality and mysticism around dnb. If you look at the mythology surrounding the "EMU" or "analog phatness" in production circles you can see that people are often simply repeating what they have heard rather then critically analyzing and experimenting (foundations of this music) to get their own sound. I think ultimately dnb is in a huge creative rut and i think everbody here knows that dnb has sunk from a grimey street level bug the fuck out cool shit (i.e. HYPHY) to a pretentious dungeons and dragons game. People are rocking 30 label affiliations in the bottom of their DOA sig like its boy scout merrit badges. Its sort of become a "Dick on the table" game of who can make a bigger reece or a crazier break edit. Sorry to break this to you but for most people 6 minutes of 64th and 128th note break edits do not make for good relevant music. I think people need to take a step back and look and why people made good tracks in the first place. They were making innovative music because it was a snapshot or a soundtrack to that era (i.e "into the ninties") People were making music to fit their own version of the future at that time not to get kudos from a bunch of fellow nerds. If this changes theres no reason it wouldn't expand. Right now theres music thats A LOT more innovative and accessible then dnb. We lost that title and we need to get it back.
I think another problem is people need to keep it fucking real. If you didn't come up in london or bristol in the mid-ninties why are you making music that soundslike that? To me that is frontin. If you from timbuktu or wherever the fuck I want to hear what your interpretation of the sound is not some wormholes or platinum breakz rehash. I think thats the whole TEKDBZ sound we are making music for the places we live and the times we are in and people respect that. I'd like to get back to a point when innovation and good solid music is respected above all else I am not sure if thats possible but for me and the people on my team i think we are gonna continue to do us and stay in our lane.
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subvert47

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
good post :)

especially...

Ho-Chi said:
Right now theres music thats A LOT more innovative and accessible then dnb. We lost that title and we need to get it back.
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that's right. personally I don't just want innovative music. I want innovative dnb.

and I want it now! :D
 
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M

michael

Bring out the vacuum
I'm normally really wary of anyone talking about consciously trying to be innovative, but he at least sounds like he wants something fun. Nicely slagging the dnb scene for being boring *and* inaccessible in that quote.

Also very pleased he made that comment about doing fiddly edits being boring. Anyone trying to emulate musical dullards like Paradox is certainly not being innovative and fails on the accessible front too.
 
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