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Karl Kraft
14-03-2006, 07:55 PM
Slavoj Zizek
Art Shock: Pervert's Guide to Cinema
Channel 4 Mrch 16th 11pm


'A journey through cinema presented by philosopher and psychoanalyst Slavoj Zizek.'

emilywaves
15-03-2006, 01:36 AM
Do you have know what station it will be on?

sherief
15-03-2006, 08:20 AM
For those of us unable to access this "Channel 4" you speak of, could someone upload a version onto the internets?

Karl Kraft
15-03-2006, 09:52 AM
For those of us unable to access this "Channel 4" you speak of, could someone upload a version onto the internets?

I'll try my best to get a recorded copy up and post it on here, may take a day or two tho. Soz shld have mentioned that its Channel 4 in the UK. K

sherief
15-03-2006, 08:20 PM
Nice, Much obliged

Karl Kraft
17-03-2006, 12:17 AM
Its not forthcoming Im afraid, capturing software fucked. Oh well I tried

sherief
17-03-2006, 04:29 AM
thanks for trying

does anyone else maybe have this?!

fldsfslmn
18-03-2006, 11:47 PM
Yeah. How could I post it?

emilywaves
19-03-2006, 03:35 AM
Maybe you could upload it to Google Video

sherief
19-03-2006, 08:25 AM
better to torrent it. Google video is terrible for downloading

sufi
20-03-2006, 11:59 AM
i watched, it was interesting altho i struggled a bit to follow his direction (& keep the eyes open tbh) will there be another episode?
liked the way he referenced hitchcock & lynch repeatedly, surprised how he seemed to freudianise everything, i thought he'd grown out of that & why was he on a boat, please? :)

i'd really be interested in hearing any other thoughtful dissensites' opinions

henrymiller
20-03-2006, 12:51 PM
he's grown out of freud? maybe it's time to start reading him again.

the boat is a reference to 'the birds' innit.

Wrong
21-03-2006, 04:42 AM
better to torrent it. Google video is terrible for downloading

There's a torrent of it up at UKNova (http://www.uknova.com/details.php?id=23715), although they only allow a limited number of people to be signed up, so you may or may not be able to download it easily from there.

sherief
21-03-2006, 06:13 PM
Thanks so much!

Karl Kraft
22-03-2006, 03:43 PM
will there be another episode?

There will be, but they haven't said when it will be on yet. If I spot it I'll post

nonseq
23-03-2006, 02:13 AM
Saw this at Rotterdam Film Festival in februari. Great stuff and very funny, like when he talks about the flowers being obscene! Its good that he uses films most typical viewers have all seen. Its like Zizek edutainment, in a good way. Gets across unpopular views by means of humour. I wonder when part two will be released? And maybe a dvd?

henrymiller
07-04-2006, 12:51 PM
"like when he talks about the flowers being obscene!"

like EVERY BIOLOGY TEACHER EVER.

mike
30-04-2006, 12:09 AM
cant seem to sign up over at UKnova... what gives? any other sources?

november
14-06-2006, 05:38 AM
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I just stumbled across Dissensus when this thread was thrown up by a search engine. I would be really keen to see 'Pervert's Guide to Cinema', so if anyone knows how I could get hold of a copy then it would be really really appreciated if you could give me a hint. Thank you. Apologies that my first post here is a request.

fldsfslmn
15-06-2006, 12:26 AM
I had plans to upload my UkNova version to someone's FTP server. Dunno what happens. Seems to have fallen through.

. . . Still have the vid files though.

november
15-06-2006, 03:54 AM
Well if there's any way that I could get a copy from you it would be much appreciated

sufi
15-06-2006, 10:55 AM
yeah sorry about that the server has become defunct
welcome in dissensus november

november
15-06-2006, 07:34 PM
Thank you

hundredmillionlifetimes
16-06-2006, 02:36 AM
http://www.sydneyfilmfestival.org/persistent/film_images/1_pervertsguidetothecinemaparts1and2.jpg

Well, if you happen to be in Australia this Saturday, the full 150min version of The Pervert's Guide To Cinema is being screened [at the 53rd Sydney Film Festival (http://www.sydneyfilmfestival.org/plugins/filmmanager.cgi/main/view?id=144)].


Dogs, Birds, Marnie http://hitchcock.tv/cam/birdsCam.jpg http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/42/42_images/Vortex7.JPG http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/42/42_images/Vortex8.JPG

Psycho http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/42/42_images/Vortex21.JPG http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/42/42_images/Vortex22.JPG


http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/42/42_images/Vortex2.JPG http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/42/42_images/Vortex16.JPG http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/42/42_images/Vortex17.JPG

http://www.culturalianet.com/imatges/articulos/3835-1.jpg http://hitchcock.tv/mov/birds/images/hbirds.jpg

"That we are watching sheeit, as it were." http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/42/42_images/Vortex11.JPG

dHarry
21-06-2006, 05:33 PM
Padraig has just posted a complete transcription of the programme complete with many stills - even pointing out Zizek's sloppy slip regarding Club Silencio in Lynch's Mulholland Drive and throwing in a Kate Bush CD cover for good measure!

Go (http://subject-barred.blogspot.com/) and beat the shit out of yourself.

John Doe
22-06-2006, 05:43 PM
STOP PRESS!

Good news for all you Zizek heads...

The Pervert's Guide to Cinema is scheduled to be shown on the More 4 channel in three one-hour episodes, beginning on Monday 3rd July at 10pm; then Tues 4th July at 10pm and finishing on Weds 4th at 10pm.

Hope this helps you to catch up with what you've missed.

omni
02-07-2006, 09:04 AM
the pervert cinema guide is also on youtube, just do a search and you will find the whole thing split into several parts.

if you want some more zizek,here's a lecture he gave at some theater festival in germany. very interesting, you can download here: http://theater.kein.org/node/128

i haven't found this one anywhere on the internet (anyone?) but it looks like a good introduction to the man and his beliefs
http://www.zizekthemovie.com

stelfox
06-07-2006, 12:28 PM
I watched all of this series and can now happily say that it was a monumentally gigantic load of shit.
it's not just that zizek is a pretty bloody dull writer, hardly groundbreaking in his theories and massively, massively overrated (especially round these parts).
he's also the single least telegenic, least engaging person in the history of broadcasting.

jahsonic
07-07-2006, 12:36 AM
<center>
Part 1.a
<br>
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xegCeH_BavE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xegCeH_BavE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
</center>

<center>
Part 1.b
<br>
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YfK1JFf5BQo"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YfK1JFf5BQo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
</center>

<center>
Part 1.d
<br>
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U6U8IzXYKg8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U6U8IzXYKg8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
</center>


<center>
Part 1.e
<br>
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2C7PO1uyabc"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2C7PO1uyabc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
</center>


<center>
Part 1.f
<br>
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZKz0zqMNQKA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZKz0zqMNQKA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
</center>

jahsonic
07-07-2006, 12:51 AM
I'm sorry, that should have been

<p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegCeH_BavE">Part 1.a</a> -
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfK1JFf5BQo">Part 1.b</a> -
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC9P4PwWBtM">Part 1.c</a> -
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6U8IzXYKg8">Part 1.d</a> -
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C7PO1uyabc">Part 1.e</a> -
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKz0zqMNQKA">Part 1.f</a>

foret
07-07-2006, 02:07 AM
the half hour of it i saw on tv was a little bit crap, beyond an adolescent delight at how offputting this must have been to the accidental viewer

there is so much academe copy consisting of rote lacanian analyses of that hitchcock/bunuel/lynch subcanon

the few thousand initiates who might have noticed could have congratulated themselves for their familiarity, and the few hundred thousand unfortunates who wouldn't have recognised a single clip ('alien' maybe) could glaze over at the holy fool / slovene vagrant talking nonsense in a rowboat

who came up with the scenery, or the title for that matter?

jenks
07-07-2006, 08:23 AM
Penman has been spending a lot of his time thinking about Zizek at the moment:

http://apawboy.blogspot.com/

I do like the idea of Julie Birchill doing a critique of the Beardy Beard.

The more of him (Zizek) I read the less impressed I get.

I started with Welcome to the Desert of the Real and was really taken with it but each time i've read a further piece the effect has been less successful.

Is reading Zizek a case of the law of diminishing returns in operation?

foret
31-07-2006, 11:11 PM
has anyone seen this (http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/29512_ZIZEK)?

noel emits
01-08-2006, 12:59 AM
has anyone seen this (http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/29512_ZIZEK)?


(Ahem)

http://www.greylodge.org/tracker/

scroll down...

Ness Rowlah
21-08-2006, 07:53 PM
This series is on More 4 this week, starting today Monday 21 August

http://www.channel4.com/more4/documentaries/doc-feature.jsp?id=81

hundredmillionlifetimes
05-10-2006, 09:46 PM
Penman has been spending a lot of his time thinking about Zizek at the moment:

http://apawboy.blogspot.com/

I do like the idea of Julie Birchill doing a critique of the Beardy Beard.



Thinking? You mean masturbating ... And a long-overdue response here (http://subject-barred.blogspot.com/2006/10/of-used-brillo-pads-zizek-penman-and.html)to Ian's well-meaning and sentimental angst - but ultimately self-loathingly slurred misfiring.

http://www.mladina.si/tednik/200442/clanek/nar-kdo_je_kdaj--ursa_matos/img/kdo4_display.jpg http://www.rocksbackpages.com/furniture/writers/penman.jpg

tate
06-10-2006, 01:04 AM
Thinking? You mean masturbating ... And a long-overdue response here (http://subject-barred.blogspot.com/2006/10/of-used-brillo-pads-zizek-penman-and.html)to Ian's well-meaning and sentimental angst - but ultimately self-loathingly slurred misfiring.

http://www.mladina.si/tednik/200442/clanek/nar-kdo_je_kdaj--ursa_matos/img/kdo4_display.jpg http://www.rocksbackpages.com/furniture/writers/penman.jpg
Out of curiosity, why are you including the cartoons written in Slovenian? Do you read Slovenian? There is another one in the linked response. Are these cartoons a part of your argument? Or for another purpose?

Also: why do you capitalize words like 'Thought' and 'Feeling' in the blog post? I've noticed that K-Punk does this too. Personally, I find it bizarre, as if someone wished that the language were German or 17th century English. But it's not. Using nouns in upper case (well, the first letter anyway) is not a substitute for an argument, or evidence, as you know. I have always assumed that there was a reason for it, theoretical or other, and was just curious. (Not trying to be unnecessarily provocative here.)

hundredmillionlifetimes
06-10-2006, 02:26 AM
Out of curiosity, why are you including the cartoons written in Slovenian? Do you read Slovenian? There is another one in the linked response. Are these cartoons a part of your argument? Or for another purpose?

Do you have a problem with East European languages? Or is the Jouissance of the Other too unbearable for you? A part of the argument, clearly.


Also: why do you capitalize words like 'Thought' and 'Feeling' in the blog post? I've noticed that K-Punk does this too. Personally, I find it bizarre, as if someone wished that the language were German or 17th century English. But it's not. Using nouns in upper case (well, the first letter anyway) is not a substitute for an argument, or evidence, as you know. I have always assumed that there was a reason for it, theoretical or other, and was just curious. (Not trying to be unnecessarily provocative here.)

You ask a lot of unnecessarily provocative questions. Why do you capitalize such words as "German" and "English" above, other than, that is, as an auto-reflexive Zombie adherence to Big Other grammer? A reason, yes.

Oh look, another cartoon!!

Zizek in Prague during the spring of 1968, just as the Russian tanks rolled in. "I found there, on the central square, a café that miraculously worked through this emergency," he says. "I remember they had wonderful strawberry cakes, and I was sitting there eating strawberry cakes and watching Russian tanks against demonstrators. It was perfect." (Zizek has since developed diabetes).

http://www.mladina.si/tednik/200442/clanek/nar-kdo_je_kdaj--ursa_matos/img/kdo2_display.jpg

tate
06-10-2006, 07:33 AM
Do you have a problem with East European languages? Or is the Jouissance of the Other too unbearable for you? A part of the argument, clearly.
Do I have a problem with "East European" languages? Haha, no, hardly. I read a number of them daily, including Slovenian, and speak one fluently.

(And that was why I asked about the Slovenian cartoons in the first place.)

Incidentally, as I'm sure you know, the words from the cartoon (with the tank) in your last post say something quite different than the Žižek quote that you have placed above it.


You ask a lot of unnecessarily provocative questions. Why do you capitalize such words as "German" and "English" above, other than, that is, as an auto-reflexive Zombie adherence to Big Other grammer? A reason, yes.
Oh, I hear you. However, the choice between spelling German/german or English/english is not, as you say, a grammatical one - Big Other grammer [sic] or other. :D

zhao
07-12-2006, 12:35 AM
I watched all of this series and can now happily say that it was a monumentally gigantic load of shit.
it's not just that zizek is a pretty bloody dull writer, hardly groundbreaking in his theories and massively, massively overrated (especially round these parts).
he's also the single least telegenic, least engaging person in the history of broadcasting.

so it sounds like you must know of some thinkers who are more successful at doing what Zizek attempts to do: people who are better writers, more "groundbreaking" theoretically, more telegenic and more engaging?

please enlighten us as to where we should look for contemporary thought which deals with the current cultural and political situation in a continuation of, but not inhibited by, the academic tradition? (and preferrably not dry and coma-inducing?)

UFO over easy
11-12-2006, 09:18 PM
...

:mad:

craner
12-12-2006, 09:45 AM
Padraig, I know everyone is politely ignoring your renewed presence (and it's not just a bit sad you came back here with a new name) and this goes against the whole (ahem) 'Dissensus code of behaviour' or whatever but you are such an astonishing prick that it deserves mention. I mean, in real life, do you actually have any friends? Do you talk to people like this?

droid
12-12-2006, 12:52 PM
Padraig, I know everyone is politely ignoring your renewed presence (and it's not just a bit sad you came back here with a new name) and this goes against the whole (ahem) 'Dissensus code of behaviour' or whatever but you are such an astonishing prick that it deserves mention. I mean, in real life, do you actually have any friends? Do you talk to people like this?

http://www.weareie.com/assets/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Im actually impressed he's managed to keep a lid on that full blown psychosis of his. He must have changed his medication.

Wheres the arrogant, self-obsessed and randomly abusive Padraig that we knew and loved? - More importantly, does this mean that we can all rip the shit out of Matt Woebot, threaten to hack the board and physically threaten other members without fear of censure? (just as long as we slink back here under another ID of course.)

Cmon everyone - express your contempt freely! After all, 'niceness' is a waste of time when you already know that youre smarter than everyone else in the room...

john eden
12-12-2006, 02:02 PM
A few posters have come back under new names. So far they have behaved themselves (or at least not manifested the behaviour which got them banned in the first place), so I am personally happy with that.

Certainly I can't be arsed cross-referring all the IP addresses here on a daily basis (though I do when someone has just been banned and I think they might try to come back in).

Having said that, I would personally afford them less leeway than posters who have not previously been banned.

If you find any posting objectionable (rather than individual posters) then please use the "report post" function.

Similarly if anyone feels personally aggrevied that previously banned posters have returned, then take it up with the moderators.

droid
12-12-2006, 02:26 PM
John Eden - King of the Mods for a reason! :D

Ian Town
12-12-2006, 04:28 PM
My name is Ian Town, and I am a member of Workers Power - the only credible alternative to state capitalism and by far the fastest growing and most dynamic part on the British Left.

Moderators or not, it's come to our attention that a number of posts on this forum are extremely disturbing in their casual acceptance / lauding of fascism. For this reason, we will be closely monitoring this site and will not hesitate to take further action if this behaviour continues or intensifies. We adhere to a strict policy of challenging fascists wherever they crop up, be it on the streets or over the world wide web.

Please consider this in future.

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

john eden
12-12-2006, 04:38 PM
Which posts would those be, Ian?

And whilst you are here, can you give us an update on the formation of a Fifth International and/or New Workers Party?

Ian Town
12-12-2006, 04:52 PM
You can keep up to date with all the relevant news and information at our website, www.workerspower.com. I dare say your readers will find more relevant and challenging information there than "what hat should I wear" (HOW ABOUT A HAT MARKED "WILFULL IGNORANCE" - ARE YOU AWARE OF THE CURRENT SMEAR CAMPAIGN AGAINST IRAN AND THIS SO-CALLED "HOLOCAUST CONFERENCE"????)

I refer to this muck - http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=4487&highlight=iran

John Eden IP noted

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

droid
12-12-2006, 04:59 PM
:rolleyes: Uh oh, here we go again...

Padraig vs the world pt2! (with added spinelessness and identity spoofing)

Ian Town
12-12-2006, 04:59 PM
Not - may I hasten to add, before some subservient to Tory Tony jumps in - that we are in favour of the development of nuclear weapons - the solution is for Iranian workers to link up with their British counterparts and, under our guidance, launch a broad attack on both country's puppetmasters.

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

john eden
12-12-2006, 05:01 PM
Ian - I was just wondering about how many members you had, really, which doesn't seem to be on there. Is the "international" just european at present?

Droid - The CAPS are something of a giveaway. I recall Padraig as being more of a red ink merchant.

Ian Town
12-12-2006, 05:01 PM
:rolleyes: Uh oh, here we go again...

Padraig vs the world pt2! (with added spinelessness and identity spoofing)

Padraig? So, I have Irish blood - and you choose to throw this in my face with a cheap insult?? Why not just call me Thick Mick or Paddy.

How comes you know so much about me anyway? Have the lackeys of RedWatch spread their tentacles of infiltration so far across the world wide web, so soon?

Droid IP noted.

ONE SOLUTION - REVOLUTION

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

Ian Town
12-12-2006, 05:09 PM
Ian - I was just wondering about how many members you had, really, which doesn't seem to be on there. Is the "international" just european at present?

Droid - The CAPS are something of a giveaway. I recall Padraig as being more of a red ink merchant.

Dear Anthony Eden (nice name for a TORY!!)

Our membership is growing daily, as workers across the world, SICK of the false choices being offered to them by the pathetic debris of parliamentary politics, join up to the only progressive and revolution-oriented force currently active.

This is not counting the numbers of dedicated students and young workers who currently comprise membership of our youth wing, REVOLUTION - www.worldrevolution.org.uk.

We don't tend to release figures, at least not to people we don't know (and certainly not until we've analysed their agendas). Comfort yourself with this fact - EVERY worker around the world is part of WORKERS POWER. How can you put a number on the rising tide of class solidarity revolt currently spreading across the globe?

For now, we remain the vanguard, and will continue to provide the guiding light to this groundswell of resistance.

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com
www.worldrevolution.org.uk

john eden
12-12-2006, 05:15 PM
Right you are.

Was Kitten Pinder a member of your lot or was it the Alliance For Workers Liberty?

Ian Town
12-12-2006, 05:22 PM
Kitten Pinder was a SAD DESPERATE MEDIA WHORE.

I can see what you're trying to do though. Maybe you should tell your Special Branch paymasters the training's not working - or maybe you're so used to hounding the Respect* lame-os that you're shocked to come across a militant able to out-fox you?

Yes, nice try, sir. But you'll have to try harder to get information on our growing and dynamic membership.

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

(*Respect does not identify itself as a working class party, despite the fact that George Galloway was a long-time Labour MP and the organisational core of Respect is the membership of the Socialist Workers Party. In fact Respect it is an alliance between the SWP and a series of religiously based organisations - local mosques and sections of the Muslim Association of Britain. The constituencies where it has made its breakthrough are all strongly Muslim areas.

Of course revolutionaries should not turn their back on Muslim areas. The Muslim population, the majority of whom are working class, is one of the most discriminated against and racially abused in Britain. Revolutionaries always side with the most oppressed and seek to draw them into the workers movement and into its vanguard.

The error that the SWP made was to seek out an alliance with Muslim people not on the basis of class politics but on a less than working class, less than socialist platform. In Lindsey German's words at its foundation conference, Respect set out to be "less socialist" than the left reformist Socialist Alliance had been.

Respect's political programme was trimmed to win middle class support within the Muslim community. When it comes to the question of the alternative society Respect is fighting for, it dodges the fundamental question: private property or socialised property? The expropriation of the capitalist class as a whole is not and cannot be raised.

Respect's manifesto does have a single paragraph aimed at attracting Old Labour supporters. It talks about the "organisation of society in the most open, democratic, participative, and accountable way practicable based on common ownership and democratic control" But ownership of and control over what? This is evasive. At least the famous Labour Party Clause Four called for "common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange".

Mosques, just like churches and synagogues, contain a mixture of working class and middle class people. The SWP talks of how many worshipers in the mosque are workers. This is beside the point. In all religious communities, business people (small or large scale), doctors and lawyers call the shots.

For many decades Jewish and Irish immigrants were overwhelmingly working class too. But no revolutionaries ever thought that they could form an electoral alliance, a proto-party with the synagogues or the catholic churches.

Socialists must be for secular education and women's liberation. All religions embody undemocratic teachings on these issues. Respect was downplaying women's rights from the outset. When it used the slogan "a woman's right to choose" it meant to choose to wear the hijab but not to choose to have an abortion. The Respect election manifesto had "Respect for..." sections for every sector of the population. But no "Respect for women"!

Galloway stressed whenever he could his profound religious faith and his opposition to abortion. Respect supporters in the mosques advertised these positions as reasons to vote for him. The SWP never uttered a single word of criticism of their allies' socially reactionary views. The best they could be made to do was to claim they were only his personal views. However, Lindsey German hastened to clarify that, when issues like that came up in the House of Commons, Respect was in favour of a free vote, allowing George to follow his conscience.

The fall in support for Labour in key sections of the working class presents massive opportunities for socialists to rally the most progressive sections to a new working class party. Respect's high vote is clear evidence of this. But by channelling this discontent into a cross-class populist vehicle, the SWP and Galloway are frittering away the chance to build a mass working class alternative to Blair.

That's why Workers Power is absolutely right to oppose Respect, and to refuse to advocate a vote for Respect candidates. We will continue instead to fight for the foundation of a new working class party, and for a revolutionary socialist programme)

dubversion
12-12-2006, 05:28 PM
Oh jesus :D :D

Octopus?
12-12-2006, 11:18 PM
Our membership is growing daily, as workers across the world, SICK of the false choices being offered to them by the pathetic debris of parliamentary politics, join up to the only progressive and revolution-oriented force currently active.

We don't tend to release figures, at least not to people we don't know (and certainly not until we've analysed their agendas). Comfort yourself with this fact - EVERY worker around the world is part of WORKERS POWER. How can you put a number on the rising tide of class solidarity revolt currently spreading across the globe?

God, you're a twit. If any thing is a deterrent to workers' unity it's self-righteous, masturbatory twaddle like this. You're the PR Wing, are you?

mistersloane
12-12-2006, 11:42 PM
I'd like to offer free sexual services to our brothers and sisters of the world revolution if that's any help.

hundredmillionlifetimes
13-12-2006, 02:01 AM
:mad:

The post to which you are responding here was actually posted by Zhao [http://www.dissensus.com/member.php?u=761], not by hundredmillionlifetimes, and we would therefore be obliged if you could edit accordingly, especially as it has provoked a paranoid, conspiracy-theory neurosis from the forum's resident flamers.

john eden
13-12-2006, 08:11 AM
http://www.weareie.com/assets/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Im actually impressed he's managed to keep a lid on that full blown psychosis of his. He must have changed his medication.

Wheres the arrogant, self-obsessed and randomly abusive Padraig that we knew and loved?

I'm not sure that alluding to alleged mental health issues and the medication thereof is going to help the stability of this forum, incidentally.

Ian Town
13-12-2006, 09:58 AM
Masturbatory?? NOT SO THE WORKING CLASS MEN AND WOMEN WHO'VE US THE FASTEST GROWING AND MOST DYNAMIC FORCE ON THE LEFT

FACT - We are the only group in Europe that the workers fully endorese. FACT - We have more black and Asian members than any other revolutionary organisation our size. FACT - We are a growing threat to global capitalism, presumably why the bigots on this website would rather have me silenced than engage in rational debate.

If anyone here is SICK of this JOKE, I'd invite young people to ditch this site and check out the Revolution web board - http://www.revolutionboard.org.uk/cgi-bin/ikonboard.pl
An excellent chance to talk about REAL politics, not this sensationalist rubbish.
And there's also a non-political chill out lounge, where members can talk about pop music, so you can stuff your accusations of being 'self-righteous'

There's obviously an underlying fascist minority here - but the main problem of this board is that you're apathetic and probably all middle class.

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

matt b
13-12-2006, 10:07 AM
Masturbatory?? NOT SO THE WORKING CLASS MEN AND WOMEN WHO'VE US THE FASTEST GROWING AND MOST DYNAMIC FORCE ON THE LEFT


and i can see why they're flooding to you as well, with your message of unification. i bet global capitalism is shitting itself.

lets all unite

john eden
13-12-2006, 10:18 AM
Kitten Pinder was a SAD DESPERATE MEDIA WHORE.

I think referring to women as "whores" is unbecoming of revolutionary socialists.

droid
13-12-2006, 10:18 AM
I'm not sure that alluding to alleged mental health issues and the medication thereof is going to help the stability of this forum, incidentally.

Well, if we're going to get all serious about it, I dont think that allowing a notorious and abusive troll to sneak back here under a new identity does anything for the 'stability' of the forum either. That someone who has slandered and threatened other members of this forum (including a founder of this place), and also threatened to hack the board is allowed to just wander back in here after having being publicy and permanently banned makes a total mockery of any kind of community or authority that may once have resided here - especially as the troll in question seems to be up to his old tricks again. My comment is laughably insignificant in comparison.

Anyway. I have no wish for a repeat performance. This kind of muddled moderation and lack of any kind of posting guidelines is exactly why I stopped reading and posting here in the first place.

Padraig's sorry little ressurection just happened to pique my interest... shant happen again.

PS: When someone directs this (http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=3845&page=3&highlight=padraig) kind of abuse at me and other members of the board, I fully reserve the right to take the piss...

jenks
13-12-2006, 10:19 AM
yeah, we must all be middle class - it can be the only reason why the board is like this and we're not all flying into your armsof workerspower.

droid
13-12-2006, 10:20 AM
PPS: Is Ian Town Oliver in disguise? Spill the beans Eden! :D

john eden
13-12-2006, 10:23 AM
FASTEST GROWING [...] any other revolutionary organisation our size

This is like the "satanism is the UK's fastest growing religion" thing, isn't it? Cos they've like doubled their membership from 2 to 4, whereas other religions have merely expanded by the odd percent here and there.

matt b
13-12-2006, 10:26 AM
yeah, we must all be middle class - it can be the only reason why the board is like this and we're not all flying into your armsof workerspower.

either that, or working class and suffering from false consciousness- ian could be just the man to lead us into the light.
and tell the iranian workers what to do.

it'll be a busy day.

Ian Town
13-12-2006, 10:28 AM
This is like the "satanism is the UK's fastest growing religion" thing, isn't it? Cos they've like doubled their membership from 2 to 4, whereas other religions have merely expanded by the odd percent here and there.

That's right, you mock, sonny jim. Never mind the fact that if you enter Camden Town on a Sunday you'll find our paper sellers outnumber the other pathetic parties by at least 5 to 1. Tell that to our comrades risking arrest, assault from the nazi scum from the Somers Town council estates, when they're building up THE ONLY CREDIBLE RESISTANCE TO CAPITALISM, direct from the streets of London.

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

craner
13-12-2006, 10:29 AM
No, I'm sorry. But this is hilarious.

john eden
13-12-2006, 10:30 AM
Well, if we're going to get all serious about it, I dont think that allowing a notorious and abusive troll to sneak back here under a new identity does anything for the 'stability' of the forum either. That someone who has slandered and threatened other members of this forum (including a founder of this place), and also threatened to hack the board is allowed to just wander back in here after having being publicy and permanently banned makes a total mockery of any kind of community or authority that may once have resided here - especially as the troll in question seems to be up to his old tricks again. My comment is laughably insignificant in comparison.

Anyway. I have no wish for a repeat performance. This kind of muddled moderation and lack of any kind of posting guidelines is exactly why I stopped reading and posting here in the first place.

Padraig's sorry little ressurection just happened to pique my interest... shant happen again.

PS: When someone directs this (http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=3845&page=3&highlight=padraig) kind of abuse at me and other members of the board, I fully reserve the right to take the piss...

My position on this is clear.

If you find any of hundredmillion's actual posts to be offensive then use the report post function.

If he dislikes you, rather than the content of your posts, he should keep it to himself and not engage in ad hominem attacks.

If you dislike him, rather than the contents of his posts, you should keep it to yourself and not engage in ad hominem attacks.

If you do not feel he should be allowed to post here then take it up with the moderators as a whole, rather than me. It is entirely possible that they will not agree with my position. The easiest way to do this is by reporting a post, which then creates an email which is sent to all the moderators.

If you feel there should be more posting guidelines then feel free to suggest some in a new thread.

Ian Town
13-12-2006, 10:30 AM
either that, or working class and suffering from false consciousness- ian could be just the man to lead us into the light.
and tell the iranian workers what to do.

it'll be a busy day.

This is a typical attempt to twist my words. We will not be telling ANYONE what to do. However, to assume that the Iranian workers have the correct critique of capitalism is naive to say the least, and it is our duty to provide guidance.


Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

matt b
13-12-2006, 10:34 AM
This is a typical attempt to twist my words. We will not be telling ANYONE what to do. However, to assume that the Iranian workers have the correct critique of capitalism is naive to say the least, and it is our duty to provide guidance.


so what's the difference between 'providing guidance' to people who you believe can't think for themselves and telling people what to do?



when they're building up THE ONLY CREDIBLE RESISTANCE TO CAPITALISM, direct from the streets of London.

do you sell your papers at a profit?

matt b
13-12-2006, 10:35 AM
using the word 'duty' was particularly sweet ian, dear.
you're winning me over.

craner
13-12-2006, 10:42 AM
so what's the difference between 'providing guidance' to people who you believe can't think for themselves and telling people what to do?

Nothing! Re-education!

Ian Town
13-12-2006, 10:43 AM
do you sell your papers at a profit?

I'm not here to debate with lumpens.
But I'm glad that the idea of world revolution fills you with terror - obviously WORKERS POWER is doing something right!

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

john eden
13-12-2006, 10:45 AM
PS: When someone directs this (http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=3845&page=3&highlight=padraig) kind of abuse at me and other members of the board, I fully reserve the right to take the piss...

Aside from his pseudo stalking and laughable threat to hack the boards, I really don't see much there other than the usual sweary nonsense which unfortunately happens on internet boards.

He was banned for that.

He seems to be behaving differently now and we are watching him.

You were not banned, but chose not to post here for a while - which I thought was a shame.

We can hardly ban padraig for personal abuse and threats and then not raise an eyebrow when people continue to slag him off - firstly when he can't even reply cos he's banned, and secondly the minute he comes back and seems to be behaving himself.

Being a mod isn't about my personal preferences, which is obviously responsible for some very uncomfortable situations.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that "reported posts" and subsequent email correspondence will be sent to my computer at home, so you will not get a swift response from me until tonight. Other mods may decide to act or respond before then.

matt b
13-12-2006, 10:52 AM
I'm not here to debate with lumpens.
But I'm glad that the idea of world revolution fills you with terror - obviously WORKERS POWER is doing something right!


answer the question.

so you don't like 'lumpens', which i assume is your loving way of referring to the lumpen proletariat, nor the middle classes.
that's quite a narrow range of people who you do like then- could you list appropriate professions, just to clarify?

at no point have i mentioned fear of a world revolution- YOU WORD TWISTER, you. but i do think you're a touch ideologically confused, to say the least.

droid
13-12-2006, 10:57 AM
My position on this is clear.

If you find any of hundredmillion's actual posts to be offensive then use the report post function.

If he dislikes you, rather than the content of your posts, he should keep it to himself and not engage in ad hominem attacks.

If you dislike him, rather than the contents of his posts, you should keep it to yourself and not engage in ad hominem attacks.

If you do not feel he should be allowed to post here then take it up with the moderators as a whole, rather than me. It is entirely possible that they will not agree with my position. The easiest way to do this is by reporting a post, which then creates an email which is sent to all the moderators.

Actually, my comment was directed at Padraig, and since HML claims not be Padraig, then surely Im not guilty of any ad Hominem attacks against members of this forum? :p

And no - I dont think that anyone who has been permanently banned should be allowed to post here. Thats what the word permanent means - however, Im not really a member of this community anymore, so if the people who do live here are happy about it, then thats fine by me - though at least now they know whats going on.

I also realise that this wasnt your decision, nor is it likely that there is even any kind of consensus or policy about unbanning ex-members, and youre simply doing your best in an isolated case. The complete lack of consistency makes it all a farce though, regardless of the good intentions of individual mods.


If you feel there should be more posting guidelines then feel free to suggest some in a new thread.

Whats the point? I have suggested them privately and publicly over and over and over with no response, in fact I think I pleaded to have them brought in - but to no avail... You can only bang your head against a wall for so long...

john eden
13-12-2006, 11:07 AM
Actually, my comment was directed at Padraig, and since HML claims not be Padraig, then surely Im not guilty of any ad Hominem attacks against members of this forum? :p

I hope I am not breaching confidentiality by saying that HML seems to have taken offence at your ad hominem attacks on a previous poster.


And no - I dont think that anyone who has been permanently banned should be allowed to post here. Thats what the word permanent means - however, Im not really a member of this community anymore, so if the people who do live here are happy about it, then thats fine by me - though at least now they know whats going on.

Well fair play to you for having a clear position on that. Unfortunately it is very hard for us to actually enforce, as the whole Hell Science Dept debacle proved. I personally just don't have enough keyboard time or interest to check all this out, and it seems the other moderators are in a similar position.

Additionally there is still part of me which believes that (some) people can change and should be given a 2nd chance.



Whats the point? I have suggested them privately and publicly over and over and over with no response, in fact I think I pleaded to have them brought in - but to no avail... You can only bang your head against a wall for so long...

I honestly have no recollection of this - possibly because it was earlier in the year when I wasn't around?

matt b
13-12-2006, 11:11 AM
the bigots on this website would rather have me silenced than engage in rational debate

I'm not here to debate with lumpens.


has he gone?

maybe he's gone to 'give guidance' to dubstepforum?

hey ho.

droid
13-12-2006, 11:15 AM
Aside from his pseudo stalking and laughable threat to hack the boards, I really don't see much there other than the usual sweary nonsense which unfortunately happens on internet boards.

He was banned for that.

I disagree John, That thread, and the threads that led to it were IMO, a bit nastier than that account of them.



He seems to be behaving differently now and we are watching him.

You were not banned, but chose not to post here for a while - which I thought was a shame.

Damn right I wasnt banned!! Why? Do you think I should I have been? :confused:

I stopped posting here because of the complete lack of structured moderation - and nothing has changed in the meantime, though i have to give you credit for at poking your head out of the sand now and then.


We can hardly ban padraig for personal abuse and threats and then not raise an eyebrow when people continue to slag him off - firstly when he can't even reply cos he's banned, and secondly the minute he comes back and seems to be behaving himself.

Being a mod isn't about my personal preferences, which is obviously responsible for some very uncomfortable situations.

He hasnt been threatened in any way, and the slags are incredibly mild compared to behaviour which has been tolerated here in the past. The only reason this kicked off is because no-one on the modding side of things thought it would be appropriate to mention the fact that he was back on a 'trial' basis, giving the (false) impression (yet again) of a back room chumminess.

Authority minus consistency = a complete mess.


EDIT: I would also like to point out that "reported posts" and subsequent email correspondence will be sent to my computer at home, so you will not get a swift response from me until tonight. Other mods may decide to act or respond before then.

Im conscious of the fact that youre wasting valuable typing time here John, so I cetainly wont be eating into your spare time with more of this irrelevant rubbish.

If a resident here actually gives a shit, then let them report it. If a lesson hasnt been learned from last time round, then it never will be...


Well fair play to you for having a clear position on that. Unfortunately it is very hard for us to actually enforce, as the whole Hell Science Dept debacle proved. I personally just don't have enough keyboard time or interest to check all this out, and it seems the other moderators are in a similar position.


You can block IP addresses cant you?



I hope I am not breaching confidentiality by saying that HML seems to have taken offence at your ad hominem attacks on a previous poster.


:D What a sensitive soul he is.


I honestly have no recollection of this - possibly because it was earlier in the year when I wasn't around?

Couldve been. Though you might find a CCd email to Matt somehwere in your archives reffering to it.

Ian Town
13-12-2006, 11:24 AM
answer the question.

so you don't like 'lumpens', which i assume is your loving way of referring to the lumpen proletariat, nor the middle classes.
that's quite a narrow range of people who you do like then- could you list appropriate professions, just to clarify?

at no point have i mentioned fear of a world revolution- YOU WORD TWISTER, you. but i do think you're a touch ideologically confused, to say the least.

We represent the global working class. That is why there were more Workers Power delegates present at November's Organising Fighting Unions Conference than from any other organisation. I have letters from striking firefighters, thanking me and Workers Power for providing solidarity. What do you have, sir? A TENDENCY TO TRY AND PROVOKE ME TO IMPRESS YOUR CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS! Or are we talking more sinister purposes here - could you be an ally of Workers Liberty, per chance?

Yes - I think we've cracked it. Libber!

Ian Town

www.workerspower.com

Woebot
13-12-2006, 11:27 AM
A few posters have come back under new names. So far they have behaved themselves (or at least not manifested the behaviour which got them banned in the first place), so I am personally happy with that.

Certainly I can't be arsed cross-referring all the IP addresses here on a daily basis (though I do when someone has just been banned and I think they might try to come back in).

Having said that, I would personally afford them less leeway than posters who have not previously been banned.

If you find any posting objectionable (rather than individual posters) then please use the "report post" function.

Similarly if anyone feels personally aggrevied that previously banned posters have returned, then take it up with the moderators.

thanks for this john. absolutely spot-on.

personally i'm glad padraig is back and if craner and droid took 5 minutes to think before they posted they'd realise that YES (even though he'll probably rain insults on me for pointing it out) padraig has generally made an effort to be easier to get along with, and what more could they ask for? they're both banned for a week.

john eden
13-12-2006, 11:39 AM
I disagree John, That thread, and the threads that led to it were IMO, a bit nastier than that account of them.

I dunno, maybe I'm not as sensitive as I thought. This all seems pretty mild compared to some stuff I've seen online, and indeed in real life.




Damn right I wasnt banned!! Why? Do you think I should I have been? :confused:

I wasn't suggesting that you should have been banned, merely pointing out that you and padraig were treated in entirely different ways, because of your different behaviour.


I stopped posting here because of the complete lack of structured moderation - and nothing has changed in the meantime, though i have to give you credit for at poking your head out of the sand now and then.

There is always more moderation going on than non-moderators are able to see. It is, as you know, a thankless task, in the main - so your credit is very welcome!




He hasnt been threatened in any way, and the slags are incredibly mild compared to behaviour which has been tolerated here in the past. The only reason this kicked off is because no-one on the modding side of things thought it would be appropriate to mention the fact that he was back on a 'trial' basis, giving the (false) impression (yet again) of a back room chumminess.

I only noticed it when it was flagged up on this thread and saw the link to the subject-barred blog. I have little interest in Zizek or much of what HML posts, so I haven't been keeping an eye on him.


Authority minus consistency = a complete mess.

Complete consistency is impossible, though.




You can block IP addresses cant you?

No, only Woebot can do that. It didn't seem to work for another poster who repeatedly returned and kept getting rebanned. I don't know why.




Couldve been. Though you might find a CCd email to Matt somehwere in your archives reffering to it.

I will look - send it again if you still have it and feel it's worthwhile.

Woebot
14-12-2006, 10:54 AM
There is always more moderation going on than non-moderators are able to see. It is, as you know, a thankless task, in the main - so your credit is very welcome!

as far as i'm concerned the less moderation the better. john and the other mods do an absoultely brilliant job of hardly ever doing it at all.

the problem has been in the past when moderators have been too "modetorial".

-

on this subect. droid is still apparently upset that he was "demodified" about six months ago and he's asked me to to make a public statement to the effect that i thought he doing an OK job. to be honest i thought i had, and have also struggled to make ammends to him as well.

in an email to him at the time i commented:

"“As far as moderation itself I'd reiterate that I think you dealt with the matter <i>(padraig's initial conflagration)</i> entirely reasonably.”

i think that is essentially correct with the obvious proviso that i'd have been happier if he had been slightly less keen to adopt "the voice of the board" (cos by definition- dissensus- there shouldn't be such a thing)