ursula rucker on the 'ho-erisation' of hip-hop

gumdrops

Well-known member
this was in the london music paper the stool pigeon. ive taken only the quotes out (it was a short piece anyway) cos i dont have time to type the whole thing out but it makes a change to see someone saying something about this stuff in print.....

"I think theres something wrong with ludacris being surrounded by women on all fours in g strings having their asses slapped. People say im standing on my soap box but hey, im tired of seeing this bullshit. Little girls are growing up thinking its an achievement to be a video ho or a stripper."

"Another thing they say is im player hating. Some of my friends are social workers and they’ve worked with prostitutes who can unroll a condom and apply it with their tongue. That’s a skill, im impressed, but when did sex become this unloving act of submission and objectification? And when did it become all a woman has to offer?"

"There is such a lack of intellectual thought, on any level, being expressed in hip hop. In magazines, there are articles dedicated to birdman from the cash money crew talking about the time he had a threesome and the girl passed gas. Its so boring. And everyone panders to these stereotypes – thug, player, pimp, baddest bitch. Is that all we aspire to be? Rappers talking about how they got ice and respect on the street are niggas in the woodpile. The yes master, no master guys. They think theyre in positions of power but theyre not. Theyre the ones being pimped and they cant even see it."
 

blunt

shot by both sides
gumdrops said:
"Is that all we aspire to be? Rappers talking about how they got ice and respect on the street are niggas in the woodpile. The yes master, no master guys. They think theyre in positions of power but theyre not. Theyre the ones being pimped and they cant even see it."

I think Talib Kweli echoes these sentiments best (and, I might offer, rather more succinctly) in 'Africa Dream' when he says:

These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain
Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain

One of my favourite ever hip hop lyrics, that.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
gumdrops said:
I think theres something wrong with ludacris being surrounded by women on all fours in g strings having their asses slapped.

in other news, bear shits in woods etc...
 

mms

sometimes
gumdrops said:
"I think theres something wrong with ludacris being surrounded by women on all fours in g strings having their asses slapped.

on the other hand he's ludacris - that's spelt a bit like ludacrous, larger than life, ridiculous adopter of stereotypes for the sake of what seems to me to be poking fun at them, not mean't to be taken seriously, seeker of gasps and discomfort from the humourless. In this case Ursula Rucker.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
ludacris is one of the best rappers out there and i dont think he was the best example rucker could have picked, but i dont think shes humourless. she just picked him as a representation of what is basically the norm of MTV base hip hop. she could have named anyone. some serious commentary on modern hip hop makes a change to be honest, shes tired of seeing women take on submissive, compliant roles as nothing more than eye candy and accessories for rappers (next to cars, houses, limos, etc etc etc) in videos. i see nothing wrong with her point (even though i enjoy seeing womens arses as much as the next man).
 
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stelfox

Beast of Burden
will someone shut this woman up, please.
i wouldn't mind if trina wasn't a million times more compelling to listen to.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
who cares about ursula making some of the most boring music imaginable (its not really fair to compare her music to trina though, ursulas a spoken word artist, not a rapper), what shes saying here is on the fucking money.
 
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stelfox

Beast of Burden
Clubberlang said:
Wow. Classy.

what? i didn't say punch her in the face or stick her headfirst into a garbage can. it's not the sort of thing i would ever say, but if i did i'd hope i'd get properly jumped on/banned from the board. please don't get all oversensitive with me, it's not exactly fair. i simply wish she would stop banging on about the same old stuff all the time and that someone would tell her that no one is listening. she's made a career out of pontificating on the moral decline of hip-hop while at the same time producing some of the most boring music imaginable (disclaimer i do like one mix of one of her tracks).
come on ursula, show us how it should be done - are you the alternative? god, i hope not.
the point being that it's pretty wack to consistently waffle on about "problems" without offering some real, tenable solutions. this is not an ad hominem attack on her at all, it's pretty well-founded. and it's she who implicitly juxtaposed herself with trina, not me. before anyone jumps on this and says "where does she do that?" she mentions "the baddest bitch" and she is an artist making records that she obviously considers morally superior. i think it's a pretty batshit comparison, too.
 
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droid

Guest
stelfox said:
don't highlight the problems without offering some real, tenable solution.

Why not? Does every critic have to offer an alternative in order to validate their criticism? It might be nice, but just because she isnt actively providing an alternative doesnt mean that her opinions arent relevant - and what about music critics who dont make music? Should they pepper their reviews with tedious suggestions for 'solutions' or just quit highlighting problems altogether?

Identifying problems is the first step to finding a solution - a critic (and thats what she is in this case) is under no obligation to provide 'solutions' to their criticsm IMO.
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
sorry, but isn't comparing artists who actually make music with critics whose job it is to.... um... criticise a bit lopsided?
 
D

droid

Guest
So youre saying that an artist mustnt criticise other artists without providing 'solutions'? That only the professional 'critic' has this right?

Criticism is criticism regardless of the source, and should be treated equally whether it comes from an artist or a critic. The 'well lets see you do better' response is a fairly traditional attempt to stifle (often valid) dissenting opinions (again IMO).
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
well, the key words are "real" and "tenable", because, by virtue of the fact that she is an artist, she is actually offering what she considers to be an alternative. it just doesn't really cut it.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
yeah, she keeps banging on about it tirelessly, but thats because nothing has changed! you could say she needs to find something new to talk about (i.e talk about something that isnt so oppositional, that actually comes from within her, rather than just as a reaction to everyone else), and maybe she does, i dont know, i find it impossible to listen to her material, even the stuff with 4hero; but shes one of very few people actually saying something about whats happening re: representation in hip hop. i think thats to be commended. shes not a big headed artist, shes not saying shes 'the alternative' or the saviour, shes just trying to point out that while most people are willing to let rappers off the hook so easily to avoid ruffling any feathers, she isnt. she actually cares that the stuff being promoted on mtv or hot 97 or wherever is morally bankrupt (or at least, pretty braindead, cliched, and done to death). and that makes a nice change, to be honest.

i dont really care if ursula rucker doesnt 'show us how it should be done' cos shes never been a part of hip hop, shes always been on the fringes and part of the spoken word scene, not the hip hop one. shes never been an MC. same thing with saul williams, he says similar stuff to her, and id say his last album DID show how it should be done (well, to a degree) but again, hes not a rapper, so its not really going to be taken on board in quite the same way. but so what, just cos hes not a rapper, doesnt mean im not gonna listen.
 
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stelfox

Beast of Burden
saul williams is a real interesting comparison because he's pretty great. i'm at work so can't talk too much but i'll come back on this.
 
D

droid

Guest
stelfox said:
well, the key words are "real" and "tenable", because, by virtue of the fact that she is an artist, she is actually offering what she considers to be an alternative. it just doesn't really cut it.

Is she? Can she given the scene shes a part of?

I have to confess that even though Ive heard her music, I cant name a track or even picture her face, and I agree that theres nothing worse than an artists endlessly criticising other artist or 'the biz' and not doing anything about it...

I still think her comments are relevant though, especially after the 3-6 mafia oscar debacle...
 
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stelfox

Beast of Burden
i'd actually like to hear what ripley has to say about this, because she's said some pretty interesting stuff on the same subject, especially the pimp archetype.
 
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