The Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill 2006 or near unfettered ministerial power

gek-opel

entered apprentice
I dunno if anyone else has mentioned this, but thought it might be worth discussing this latest "reform"...

see here...
http://www.saveparliament.org.uk/problem.html (thanks to Cornelius for a link to this site)

At the committee stage of the legislative and regulatory reform bill, MPs were assured that the act would not be used for highly controversial measures. They asked for such reassurance to be written into the bill, and for a long list of crucial acts to be excluded from its remit. The minister refused, saying he would recognise a controversial measure when he saw one--- this is insane, how can this be occurring???

some more links:

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/regulation/bill/index.asp
http://www.newstatesman.com/200604170017
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour/comment/0,,1747774,00.html

Would anyone care to discuss this? Is it really as bad as the doomsayers would have us believe? I don't see how this can be anything but horrific really...
 

Padraig

Banned
gek-opel said:
shit- just noticed this has already been mentioned, sorry:
http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=3455

Still bugger all replies there- does no one give a damn about this? Are we really so reflexively impotent that we won't deign to do anything at all???

Yes, gek-opel, and as will soon become apparent, many of the reflexively impotent posters here prefer to aggressively defend such impotence, dismissing those who confront it, or take a serious stance on any political issue, as "arrogant", as "belligerent" or as a "pseudo-troll". It is, of course, an impotent acting-out on their part, a false activity, of which the most succinct definition might be as follows: when I am frenetically active not to achieve something, but in order to prevent something from happening [like, uh, a proper debate etc]. Like obsessional neurotics, Dissensus' chronic fatalists are frantically active precisely in order to insure that something - that which really matters, the smooth functioning of the market, and their impotence in the face of - will not be disturbed ... Of course, its not just happening here.
 

corneilius

Well-known member
The Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill (LARF)

It is as bad as it can get insofar as it shows just how far this government, these war-mongering, corporation ass kissing 'representatives of the people' want to go. And that is really scary. As it is our democracy is a mere tokenised version of the ideal.

The recent Power Inquiry http://www.powerinquiry.org has made some very powerful observations on the failure of democracy in the UK, as well as some radical suggestions as to how we might rebalance denocracy in the UK in favour of people and communities. Needless to say the people most in opposition to those reccomendations are the politicians and the corporations. You can get a copy, free of charge, of their report, posted to you within 24 hours, by registering on their website. I have read it, it is well laid out, full of information and very well thought out and it ought to be in every school and library in the country.

I for one have been on this one (LARF as I call it!) for about three/four weeks now, I have sent out 3000 emails and been putting it up on other boards etc, and talking about it at all my gigs (3 a week, probably reaching 100 people, not much I know..) Well done, gek-opel, for posting it here too!

I have seen one media report that says the Government is pulling back on this law, yet I assume they will try to get it through, as they got the ID cards bill through, by making ammendments that dilute it, yet are not that much of a dilution.

If they do, then we are in a very serious position indeed, as in 1933 in Germany. If they do, it will be because not enough od=f us either knew about it or did anything about it.

They have been thrown off course with the response to the Nuclear Power issue, though there is more to come on that as well.

Usually that means they are going to become even more determined and will use more devious means to push their agenda through - if my paranoia is a guide, I would say that they want to be able to criminalise all protest and criticism against their bogus 'war on terror', and even nastier still might wish to enlarge the army to meet the requirements of the 'war on terror' and maybe also to avoid any possibilty, remote or otherwise, of their indictment as a result of the (actual, low-level) nuclear war in Iraq. An illegal war by current International standards.

Hence recent comments by Jack Straw and others saying that The Geneva Convention needs to be 'modified' in the light of the 'war on terror'.

Wait and see, and passs the message on about the LARF to all and sundry. It's the very least we can do. All it takes is time. We may have to do more than that as their plans develope.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Right I have just written a longwinded letter to my local MP about this. What is everybody else doing???
 

jenks

thread death
Padraig said:
Yes, gek-opel, and as will soon become apparent, many of the reflexively impotent posters here prefer to aggressively defend such impotence, dismissing those who confront it, or take a serious stance on any political issue, as "arrogant", as "belligerent" or as a "pseudo-troll". It is, of course, an impotent acting-out on their part, a false activity, of which the most succinct definition might be as follows: when I am frenetically active not to achieve something, but in order to prevent something from happening [like, uh, a proper debate etc]. Like obsessional neurotics, Dissensus' chronic fatalists are frantically active precisely in order to insure that something - that which really matters, the smooth functioning of the market, and their impotence in the face of - will not be disturbed ... Of course, its not just happening here.

Or maybe we're just doing something rather than posting random insults and pictures at people
 

tatarsky

Well-known member
The replies I've seen from Labour MPs on this all toe the party line squarely about how this would only be used to cut through red tape, and don't worry kids, we won't abuse it, honest, etc.

Then, I see this: http://news.ft.com/cms/s/31cb7d20-ca5a-11da-852f-0000779e2340.html

which suggests they're backing down. Does anyone know if the Bill has been well and truly scraped, or is it merely to be amended slightly so that they appear to be backing down, whilst the scary stuff still gets through?

What's most disturbing is the lack of any kind of significant response from the media on this. When I told a friend of mine about this, he passed all of this on to someone he knew that worked at the BBC (Panorama), and basically, they're are aware of it, but not bothering to give it much attention. I think they're of the opinion that it will never actually pass.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
If the lack of response from the media is based on a "it won't happen here" line of thinking, that's pretty lazy really isn't it? I mean even if it doesn't happen the fact that the labour Government are demonstrating such insane arrogance by attempting to pass it is a story in itself, is it not?

I mean if the law is intented to meet the role as described (to enable changes to be made to business regulations) then why don't they limit its powers as such? Assurances from this Govt that they won't use such legislation for anything antidemocratic is pretty hard to take... like the various anti-terror laws- of course they're going to be used against anti-vivisection protesters and anti-arms fair protesters...
 

tatarsky

Well-known member
The softer, less conspiratorial angle on all of this is that, yes, it is designed to enable changes to business regulation. They've tried to pass acts to speed up this process before, but none of them really worked, because it's hard to come up with a wording that isn't so vague that it could effectively be used for anything the government wanted. This occurs because of the diversity of business regulation, which means that you either make parliament sit on every single decision, or you pass an act like this.

I suspect that's bollocks though (other democracies manage it, etc.). And even so, there has been virtually no discussion of any of this. Undoubtedly the media's failure to report this is hugely troubling - I mean, to me, this is a pretty damn big story - certainly bigger than any of the cash-for-peerages stuff, as this has permanent effects. It's weird how it just hasn't been discussed. You're right gek- even if it isn't gonna happen, the fact that they tried to pass it is newsworthy enough.
 

owen

Well-known member
parliamentary cretinism

yes, this is genuinely terrifying.

but part of the point with the idea of 'reflexive impotence' is the element of truth in it. i genuinely don't want to be dismissive of any sort of action, but surely there is nothing more futile, more pre-emptively pointless, than writing to your MP? but then the question is- where's the mass movement? where are the lobbies of parliament? what can we do that is actually concrete?
 

corneilius

Well-known member
They are having a LARF -

owen said:
yes, this is genuinely terrifying.

but part of the point with the idea of 'reflexive impotence' is the element of truth in it. i genuinely don't want to be dismissive of any sort of action, but surely there is nothing more futile, more pre-emptively pointless, than writing to your MP? but then the question is- where's the mass movement? where are the lobbies of parliament? what can we do that is actually concrete?
We write to the MP, and local councillor and everyone else who should be dealing with it, to put on record our feelings on the matter.

They won't do much untill there are so many people knocking on their door, that they are either frightened into action or ashamed of their inaction ..... I also believe that if we give them no way to say 'I didn't know', if we can thus identify them as participants in the cover-up, in the denial, if we name and shame so to speak, we will influence their moves.

It is important to print off flyers and distribute them in your own street or building, to find ways to spread the word - once enough people know, then action becomes possible. A lot of little bits of action add up to one big action over time. They do rely on the 'I am just samll person, and will have no real effect' psychology for much of their power. We can choose not to disempower ourselves if we wish.

Of course it is only when the action is constant, when the pressure is kept up, day after day after day, that we have any chance of stopping these types of laws, and it is far better than having to wait untill we have to engage in civil disobedience or meet tear-gas on the streets.

I would also encourage you to include in your letters to MPs, Councillors etc a reference to the Power Inquiry. http://www.powerinquiry.org for more info. It is the most plausible approach to rebalancing democratic political power that we have to date, a genuinely realistic hammer to our anvil for their steel.
 

Padraig

Banned
jenks said:
Or maybe we're just doing something rather than posting random insults and pictures at people

In your salivating, Pavlovian rush to engage in personal abuse, you not only bleakly demonstrate your inability to comprehend the points made, but you also - fatally - confirm them. And this is all you're doing ...
 

Padraig

Banned
Corneilius said:
]I for one have been on this one (LARF as I call it!) for about three/four weeks now, I have sent out 3000 emails and been putting it up on other boards etc, and talking about it at all my gigs (3 a week, probably reaching 100 people, not much I know..) Well done, gek-opel, for posting it here too!

Great, Corneilius. On the - tactical - subject of sending e-mails, letters, etc, I've found that the most effective way of getting someone to actually read a communication is still to send them a Fax. In contrast, E-mails are still, like spam, rarely read or taken seriously by anyone, while written letters of that nature almost require a lottery to get past the administrative/secretarial infrastructure. But a FAX in most cases will be read ...
 

k-punk

Spectres of Mark
I think part of the problem here is that it is literally unbelievable. I had to check to see that it wasn't some April Fool's prank...

Owen, on reflexive impotence - I think that what makes it true is that it is a self-confirming hyperstitional circuit. 'Doing things' - even if they don't 'work' - immediately has the effect of breaking the spell. I think Zizek's point that the Leninist utopia was already in a sense achieved once people started working towards the utopia is very valuable in this respect. Surely we could get some sort of rally together?
 

corneilius

Well-known member
rally

When the moment for a rally arrives, take a few days food with you, some warm clothes and water - we might need to stay out for a while to get the message across. Oh and some lemons, bach flower rescue remedy and other useful healing stuff. Also travel in groups, make teams of people, so we can look afer each other. I hope I am kidding myself here, I really do.

If this does come to pass, we will have a serious fight on our hands, and I hope we can emulate the French, though without the violence.

If we, the people, cannot stop these politicians from their murderous intent, then no-one can, so it is our responsibilty to do what we must.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
K-punk: spot on- I am reminded of some point about depression you raised on yr blog at some point in the past, that even tho it might not work (in yr discussion- feeling happy) it was necessary to "go thru the motions", eventually things will click into place. To fight the reflexive impotence this is necessary, even if the first steps are pathetic and fail to result in actual change, so long as people learn to act, not merely mumble into their pint "there's nothing which can be done..." then eventually the spell will be broken. Almost the entire point is to believe that change can exist, that action can facillitate that change, and that one can act. Even if it cannot, eventually there will be actions and people who will be able to change things. It certainly won't occur so long as we believe it is impossible!
 

jenks

thread death
Padraig said:
In your salivating, Pavlovian rush to engage in personal abuse, you not only bleakly demonstrate your inability to comprehend the points made, but you also - fatally - confirm them. And this is all you're doing ...

you can call others amateur posters and post pictures of shit filled toilets because you are somehow in the possession of so much more knowledge than us, is that it?

and as to what i can and cannot comprehend - let me worry about that, i'll also worry about how this may well be fatal to me
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
corneilius said:
When the moment for a rally arrives, take a few days food with you, some warm clothes and water - we might need to stay out for a while to get the message across. Oh and some lemons, bach flower rescue remedy and other useful healing stuff. Also travel in groups, make teams of people, so we can look afer each other. I hope I am kidding myself here, I really do.

If this does come to pass, we will have a serious fight on our hands, and I hope we can emulate the French, though without the violence.

If we, the people, cannot stop these politicians from their murderous intent, then no-one can, so it is our responsibilty to do what we must.

i don't wish to sound sarcastic, but where have you been for the past (plucking a random number) 150 years?
 

satanmcnugget

Well-known member
fuck, here in Toronto, the same dynamic is occuring, even at the municipal level

it's almost fucking medieval, innit?


anybody up for a good old-fashioned peasant uprising, international styleeeeeee? :)
 

corneilius

Well-known member
resource

here's a fine resource for info in the Media from my friends at newsnow :

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=Abolition+of+Parliament+Bill

read all about it!

Latest articles from around the world. The campaign is beginning to gather pace. We have a month to stop these madmen, before they take it to the third reading, after 'rephrasing' the bill.

The day of the reading might be a good day to go for an extended walk, if you know what I mean!?

More details soon.

And spread the word, folks!
 
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