My Bloody Valentine thread

Buick6

too punk to drunk
Been listening to 'Loveless' on the Zen lately. I'd like to pose some questions for discussion:

1. As 'psychadelic' music, are MBV really that trippy or sonically/timbrally dense?

It seems alot of the MBV 'shtick' guitarwise is derived from that industrial-mod guitar sound from two key records: Sonic Youth's SISTER (esp the track SOON) and Dinosaur Jr's YR LIVING ALL OVER ME (their track POLEDO). ALot of the density of their sound come from processed keyboard layer over the guitars, making the resulting 'wash' not as DEEP as you may first think.

2. KRAUTROCK, connection - yep, c/w the whole MBV shitck with Faust's marvellous track KRAUTROCK, but also the soundscapes of HARMONIA (Musik Von), and of course, not forgetting ENO, even, or more especially, the ambient stuff like DISCREET MUSIC and his experiments with the criminally uder-rated ROBERT WYATT

3. Lyrics. I'm really getting hyped on their lyrics or trying to decipher what Belinda is saying. Their lyrics are more functional thant meaningful, much like dance music's use of voice.

4. What happened to Belinda Butcher?

Cheers
 

shudder

Well-known member
I don't know about "trippy", but sonically dense, at least sometimes. I *love* the sound on "No More Sorry" off Isn't Anything (although make no mistake, I think Loveless is better). That's Belinda singing on that one too, right? Those lyrics are pretty obvious tho... and not at all "functional" as opposed to meaningful.
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
I have this theory buzz in my brain that LOVELSS was the END of guitar rock as we know it (tho' maybe Reynolds already wrote about this?).

Along the lines that MBV basically synthesised the groundbreaking work of Sonic Youth & Dinosaur, topped it via LOVELSS, neither of those bands went anywhere sonically after that, and subsequently MBV completely burnt themselves out. No guitar band has ever been able to sonically eclipse those works since, just more po-mo fucken shit. :rolleyes:
 

henry s

Street Fighting Man
Buick6 said:
3. Lyrics. I'm really getting hyped on their lyrics or trying to decipher what Belinda is saying. Their lyrics are more functional thant meaningful, much like dance music's use of voice.

4. What happened to Belinda Butcher?
there was a band in the early 90's (I always forget their name, they were on the fringes of what our forefathers called "shoegaze", kinda Swervedriveresque, obviously quite forgetable) that covered "You Made Me Realise" and absolutley butchered the lyrics...(I suppose the actual lyrics are on the web somehere now, but in those days had to go on spec)...and speaking of "butchering", where indeed is Belinda Butcher?...she was basically every indie-guy's wet dream back in those days, until PJ Harvey came along...is she really in Vetiver?...I know Colm has done stuff with them...
 

zhao

there are no accidents
another interesting way to think about them is perhaps in regards to the emotional stance the music takes.

if Joy Division is anger calcified and turned to a resolute, bitter defiance...

then perhaps MBV is discontent becoming... becoming what? blissed out euphoria? life affirming energy?

their first couple of albums had pretty fucking angry songs on them (Feed Me your Kiss), and then the music became more detached, formal and poppy.

seems like they heralded the whole shoe gazer thing which can be aggressive and "angry" sounding, but it's detached and delirius... remember the first Lush album? it's a dreamy anger... can't put my finger on it or find the right words to describe it.

also early Cocteau Twins up to Garlands is a good example here... that stuff was soooooo dark.
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
Sexually I find songs like 'honeypower', 'only 'shallow' and 'soft as snow, but warm inside' very sexy and erotic on an intellectual level, but far from primal, physical, fucking music.

Most of their other stuff kinda veers on sexual madness, schizophrenia, having your sexual impulses all confused and twisted into some sorta castrated/rape trauma. Part of this is the lack of bottom end in the sound, espesh on traxx like 'to here knows when' or 'no more sorry', they feel like completely, emotinally gutted. Asexual is a word that comes to mind.

then there's stuff like 'blown a wish' which is infinitely girly.


I guess that whole Sex Revolts thing (i haven't read the book) might explain the nascent sexual/politique/intelligencia of the MBV sound better than I ever could.

Personally I find their sound panoramic rather than sexual. It's interesting how desexed left-field UK music became AFTER the Sex Pistols, and it only took the predominately gay underground house thing, not the fucking Bronski Beat or Pet Shit Boys or Morrissey/smiths to give it balls again.
 
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jwd

Well-known member
henry s said:
there was a band in the early 90's (I always forget their name, they were on the fringes of what our forefathers called "shoegaze", kinda Swervedriveresque, obviously quite forgetable) that covered "You Made Me Realise" and absolutley butchered the lyrics...

That was Midway Still, wasn't it?
 

mike

Mild Horses
Steven Shaviro wrote an essay on MBV and androgeny in DOOM PATROLS, which he very generously posted online here: http://www.shaviro.com/Doom/ch03.html

has anyone heard the 'Geek' 12-inch they released in 1986? ive found a few tracks on limewire, very odd surf-rock stuff..
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
Buick6 said:
Sexually I find songs like 'honeypower', 'only 'shallow' and 'soft as snow, but warm inside' very sexy and erotic on an intellectual level, but far from primal, physical, fucking music.

unless you're doing ecstasy with your lover at home -- maybe not primal, but definitely very physical fucking music

Buick6 said:
Most of their other stuff kinda veers on sexual madness, schizophrenia, having your sexual impulses all confused and twisted into some sorta castrated/rape trauma.

granted, i can't really decipher the lyrics -- but i've always founded it very sensual/sensuous -- and though there's a suicide/death angle, that's also an erotic element -- i.e., eros points to death, all things erotic are tinged with death

Buick6 said:
Part of this is the lack of bottom end in the sound

????? -- seems like pretty deep and groovy bass to me

Buick6 said:
Personally I find their sound panoramic rather than sexual

i find it intensely sexual music -- again, sex as sensuality/sensuousness -- physical and psychic exploration

whenever i'm alone for the first time w/ a girl, i put on mbv, cocteau twins, mazzy star and scriabin
 

henry s

Street Fighting Man
jwd said:
That was Midway Still, wasn't it?
right on...thanks!...(I'm sure I'll forget it again)

on the whole MBV/sexuality angle, there is certainly a latent eroticism in their music, but the moments when they just went for it always struck me as awkward and embarassing...(anybody listen to the lyrics to "Slow" recently?)
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
I absolutely love 'Slow' but it probably helped to hear it as a teenager, eh.

"Just lick lick lick and suck suck suck"

Yep, pretty intellectual stuff... was about to write "heady". :eek:

Anyway, I think that EP (the one that starts with 'You Made Me Realise') is pretty fantastic and certainly very physical music. I'm not sure 'Loveless' has held up thaaat well, but maybe it's more the case that I've numbed myself to it through repetition over the years... I still like it a lot, just don't want to hear it very often.

Did anyone listen to Medicine? I thought their first album, 'Shot Forth Self Living', was a pretty amazing piece of madness to release as a debut and on a major label. Songs like 'One More Kiss' still get me all excited. Somehow from there they ended up on the soundtrack for The Crow and then the main guy went off and did all that IDM shit on Kid 606's label...
 

henry s

Street Fighting Man
michael said:
Did anyone listen to Medicine? I thought their first album, 'Shot Forth Self Living', was a pretty amazing piece of madness to release as a debut and on a major label. Songs like 'One More Kiss' still get me all excited. Somehow from there they ended up on the soundtrack for The Crow and then the main guy went off and did all that IDM shit on Kid 606's label...
yes, Medicine's first 2 albums were truly great, like MBV w/ beats...I've not heard the Electric Company stuff, nor the recent (well, 2 years ago) Medicine release...(I think the cover art on that one scared me away!)
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
There were a couple of promo MP3s of the second take of Medicine around at the time of the album release and I thought they sounded pretty rank. Mainly the new singer really grated. Electric Company reached my ears at about the same time I was getting really fed up with the feed-everything-through-all-the-effects-in-my-laptop school of music making. I should probably revisit it, I'm pretty partial to a lot of electronic stuff and I obviously relate to *something* in his music.

Glad to know someone else liked the early stuff, either way. :)
 
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tate

Brown Sugar
michael said:
IDid anyone listen to Medicine? I thought their first album, 'Shot Forth Self Living', was a pretty amazing piece of madness to release as a debut and on a major label. Songs like 'One More Kiss' still get me all excited. Somehow from there they ended up on the soundtrack for The Crow and then the main guy went off and did all that IDM shit on Kid 606's label...

I realy liked about half of The Buried Life when it came out and saw Medicine play live in support of the album in chicago in '93. I had high hopes, but remember being disappointed by the show - Laner's guitar noises weren't particularly effective (i.e., not loud enough), they weren't as slickly caustic as on record, and the fact that his candy-coated feedback loops were often the foundation of a pop song, well, that seemed to get lost.

I heard one track ("i smile to my eyes," i think it was called, hard to forget a title that bad) from their 2003 astralwerks album but it struck me as a kind of novelty item, ten years too late.

But yeah, those first two records held out a lot of promise, the way they built guitar parts from noise yet foregrounded a sassy pop sensibility. But without good songwriting and arranging, or a great drummer, that kind of thing tends to bog down.
 
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Buick6

too punk to drunk
If you really want to find a lineage/sexual pop angle MBV - > Medicine - > garbage (the Shirley and Butch show)
 

swears

preppy-kei
I don't think they should release a new album. They went out on a high and the fact they never released anything afterwards added to the mystique when I discovered them as a teenager in '99.

I don't want to see them live, I don't want to hear a new album, why do they have to become some cash-in/self parody now?
 
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