Another failure of 'poptism'

Buick6

too punk to drunk
Or maybe it should be retermed AUTISM, much as the popperati would label ROCKISM is FASCISM or some sorta twaddle...

But nowhere did any of these smarty-pantsies every confront the issue of AGEISM that is inherent in the pop-paradigm. The pop-tarts love to deny that simple truth that we all age and die. Rather they like to fame themselves in some sort of Dorian Grey type nether world where you are always 15, you have crushes, emotional flights of fancy and have people in their 40s acting like they're 15, actually point taken, look at rock dinosaurs!

But still that adherence to childhood 'innocence' and tweness is a completely useless philosophy. At least rockers never stop, and play out until they die (actually a blues type thing)... How will Kathleen Hanna's 'teen riot' rah-rah or Saint Etienne's 'Doris Day cuteness' still remain relevant as they near 40, will they become disco-divas? Actually I'm starting to sound like Camille Paglia, but since she's one of the best and most astute rockist writers going, Madonna comes to mind as a paradigm-buster, kinda sorta...(the word TRANSCENDENT may come to mind, but it's too powerful and dogmatic)

With rock, their relevance and intensity can still remain as they age, which when you think about it, gives the 'artisitic' merit of rock higher credence, when it works. (I mean, I can still listen to new Dylan or Lou Reed albums, but can YOU still listen to Paul McCartney or Elton John's latest endeavours? I'd bet good money, no). Kim Gordon is an innaresting case, though, ultimately she IS a ROCK-CHICK, whether she like it or not, since Sonic Youth never stop touring, part of the rock paradigm.
 
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hint

party record with a siren
Stephen Merrit
Kathleen Hanna
Saint Etienne
Kim Gordon
RHCP

... did you decide to stop paying attention to music 12 years ago?
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Buick- interesting point about the need of music to reflect the ageing process- why then have all the rockers you mentioned failed to grow up? This is a serious question and not just obvious candidates like the rolling stones, but also sonic youth, as you mention, and innumerable others. And I mainly mean grow up artistically? Rock is surely as much identified with "eternal youth" as "pop"?
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
gek-opel said:
Buick- interesting point about the need of music to reflect the ageing process- why then have all the rockers you mentioned failed to grow up? This is a serious question and not just obvious candidates like the rolling stones, but also sonic youth, as you mention, and innumerable others. And I mainly mean grow up artistically? Rock is surely as much identified with "eternal youth" as "pop"?

Thanks for highlighting this point. It's quite hard to find rockers whose work IMPROVES WITH AGE, and it seems when that happens it's like the coming of the messiah. I thought Dylan's 'time out of mind' was an incredible piece of work by an elder statesmen, as was Iggy Pop's 'Avenue D'..I reckon Michael Gira is becoming BETTER in his older age..

It's pretty hard to find in rock artists that have an attitude like the jazz musicians. I mean Coltrane was making his most artistically challenging and forward think music up until his death, be nice if there were more rockers going for the same. Though maybe that's not part of the paradigm.
 

owen

Well-known member
Buick6 said:
Thanks for highlighting this point. It's quite hard to find rockers whose work IMPROVES WITH AGE, .

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gek-opel

entered apprentice
Yeah... Scott and maybe David Sylvian as well-- as they've shifted quite a lot from their earlier works to more emotionally complex stuff (although asides from Blemish which is bloody fantastic a lot of late-era Sylvian is a wee bit too overly-tasteful and avant-adult contemporary for my tastes...) Also Tom Waits??? Nick Cave??? The problem with mainstream rock is that it is very formulaic especially once an act becomes successful, the only way to genuinely advance and complexify and deepen the art with age is to leave the system behind... I agree that Dylan has had late career resurgences at various points, but I don't really see him deepening or really exploring further than earlier in his career (rather an album like Time Out of Mind happened to be that rare thing- a properly good album late in a career...)
 
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