PDA

View Full Version : Iranian Philosopher Arrested!



satanmcnugget
06-05-2006, 11:11 PM
Amnesty International Action Alert...fully story here:

http://raminj.iranianstudies.ca/

Padraig
07-05-2006, 01:18 AM
Yes, its extremely disturbing, and evidence of the sheer paranoia that has overtaken the Iranian regime in response to the US/Israel's plans to invade the country. And, tragically, it's going to get worse, with Iran now treating intellectuals, artists and dissidents much like the US treatment of "illegal combatants" in numerous secretive prison camps.

Ramin Jahanbegloo in Tehran http://www.payvand.com/news/05/mar/smithsonian-iran4.jpg

I briefly met Jahanbegloo a few years ago when he was giving a talk here, and my sentiments very much echo those of hoder (http://hoder.com/weblog/archives/015215.shtml):


What I liked about him was his ability to talk about theory without making you feel stupid, his casual attitude towards the group (everyone was calling him by his first name at his own request, which is quite unusual among Iranians who have an obsession with long titles and formal respect.) His energy in persuading everyone to work in the group was admirable. So was his positive energy.

Last time I saw him was last June in Iran. It was a big surprise. He was married and they were expecting a baby. He seemed very proud of returning to Iran and starting a family life.

What's even more worrying is that there are now unconfirmed reports [CBS News (http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/MSN/world/national/2006/05/04/jahanbegloo-iran.html)] that Jahanbegloo has been transfered to a hospital, according to a close friend, though no more detail is available yet.

Jahanbegloo has published writings on Hegel, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King, and has interviewed
Paul Ricoeur, Jurgen Habermas, and Isaiah Berlin: :http://www.eureka.sklep.pl/zdjecia/83-87045-97-7.jpg

It's a real pity that Chomsky never managed to visit him in Iran, following this interview (http://www.payvand.com/news/02/jun/1023.html) with Jahanbegloo at MIT just before his move back to Tehran in 2002:

Ramin Jahanbegloo: I was going to ask you to visit Iran. When will we have the pleasure of having you among us in Iran. I am sure that the Iranian scholars would love to have an open discussion with you?

Noam Chomsky: Thank you for the invitation, but I can't promise you the exact date. It's not easy to work out such an attractive invitation with all these files I am working on. But I will come to Iran sooner or later.

Ramin Jahanbegloo: Talking about the Middle East, how do you see the future of the Iranian-American relations? What could the citizens of the two countries do to ameliorate the relations between the two countries?

Noam Chomsky: I think the citizens of both countries have a common interest in changing the harmful policies in their countries. Of course they deal with it as people always can, I mean by setting solidarity relations to the extent that it is possible. I think Americans and Iranians can create these relation networks through all kinds of communications such as science, culture, sports, intellectual visits, trade etc. Us policy is interesting in this case. I mean practically always foreign policy is a clear reflection of primary economic interests. But this is a case where they diverge. So if you took a look at the energy corporations in the US, most of them are in favor of reintegrating Iran into the dominant global system and have tried to do so. But the US government is walking them, which is quite unusual. Usually it mainly supports their interests in the region. I think you can imagine the reasons when you compare to other cases. There is a very important principle of statecraft which is called "establishing credibility". What that means is that everybody should be terrified of you. Mafia understands this concept very well. If you are a Mafia Don, it is not enough to have people do what you say; they have to be afraid of you. So if a storekeeper doesn't pay protection money you just don't go and get the money, you make an example of him so that everyone else understands. That's establishing credibility. If you look at the official reasons for bombing Serbia in 1999, it was to establish credibility. They call it "NATO credibility" but that means of course "US credibility". I mean that people should know that you are the boss or otherwise you get smashed. Now let us go to Iran. Iran tried in 1953 to take control of its own resources. That ended up with a coup d'etat. The Shah was a very loyal client of the US and the US loved him. There was a survey on the violations of human rights in Iran which was published by a journalist of the New York Times. Well, when you look at this report it mentions that from 1953 to 1979 the US government believed that there were no human rights violations in Iran. When Carter went to Iran in 1978 he told the Shah how impressed he was by the degree that the Iranians loved him. I mean Iran was just fine as long as it was doing what the US wanted. But in 1979 Iran broke the rules. It pulled out and turned independent and that has to be punished. Even if the reformists could succeed and wanted to re-integrate Iran back into the system they would probably be prevented from doing it. Because the US wants to make an example of Iran to show other people in the Middle East that they can't do these kind of things. You don't break ranks and disobey the orders of the master. That's credibility and I think a lot of policies are driven by that. It is hard to explain on other grounds. It's for example very counterproductive on the economic level.

I'm hoping that a sufficient number of Western intellectuals (Chomsky, Zizek, etc) and well-placed politicians (Galloway etc) with a proper, balanced understanding of the current Iranian crisis will, along with Iranian artists and intellectuals, seriously rally and lobby the Iranian authorities to release Jahanbegloo as soon as possible ... I'm currently bombarding the Iranian Embassy in Ireland with assorted documentation ...

Here's a list of Iranian Embassies and Consulates worldwide worth lobbying ASAP:


Iranian Embassy in Ottawa, Canada

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Ottawa, Canada
245 Metcalfe St.
Ottawa, Ontario
K2P 2K2 Canada
City: Ottawa
Phone: (613) 235-4726
Web Site: http://www.salamiran.org/
Office Hours: Monday to Friday 9:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.


Iranian Embassy in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia

Embassy of Iran in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia
P.O.Box : 70488
Addis Ababa
Ethiopia
City: Addis Ababa
Phone: 200794 - 712012
Web Site: http://www.telecom.net.et/~iranet/

Iranian Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Jakarta, Indonesia
Jl. HOS Cokroaminoto 110, Menteng,
Jakarta 10310
City: Jakarta
Phone: +62-21-331378 or 33139162-21-3107860
Fax: +62-21-3107860
Web Site: http://www.iranembassy.or.id/

Iranian Embassy in Dublin, Ireland

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran
72 Mount Merrion Ave.
Blackrock Co.
City: Dublin
Phone: (003531) 2885881-2880252-2882967
Fax: (003531) 2834246
Web Site: http://www.iranembassy.ie
Email: IranEmbassy@indigo.ie

Iranian Embassy in Oslo, Norway

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Oslo, Norway
Drammens veien 88 E
0244 Oslo
Norway
City: Oslo
Phone: (+47) 23 27 29 60
Fax: (+47) 22 55 49 19
Office Hours: Visiting hours: Monday, Wedensday and Friday From 09:00 till 12:00 Visiting hours: Monday, Wedensday and Friday From 09:00 till 12:00

Iranian Embassy in Oslo, Norway

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Oslo, Norway
Drammens veien 88 E
0244 Oslo
Norway
City: Oslo
Phone: (+47) 23 27 29 60
Fax: (+47) 22 55 49 19
Web Site: http://www.iran-embassy-oslo.no/frame.htm
Office Hours: Visiting hours: Monday, Wedensday and Friday From 09:00 till 12:00 Visiting hours: Monday, Wedensday and Friday From 09:00 till 12:00

Iranian Embassy in London, United Kingdom

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran in London, England (UK)
16 Prince's Gate,
London SW7 1PT
City: London
Phone: (44) 020-7225 3000
Fax: ( +44)2075894440
Web Site: http://www.iran-embassy.org.uk/
Email: info@iran-embassy.org.uk
Office Hours: 9:00-13:00 Monday to Thursday and 9:00-12:30 Friday

Iranian Consulate in Washington DC, United States

Iranian Interests Section
2209 Wisconsin Avenue NW,
Washington DC 20007
City: Washington DC
Phone: (202) 965-4990
Office Hours: 7:30 am - 3:30 pm Monday through Friday except on Wednesdays and holidays.

satanmcnugget
07-05-2006, 07:05 AM
Chomsky is an octogenarian now

the fact that the man does what he does is unbelieveable to me...he TRAVELS at an age when many have given it up.......i have many issues with the man, too...but as i have grown older, ive come to realize that the fate of the world doesnt rest with Chomsky (or any of the heroes of the ultra-left)

it rests with us

craner
08-05-2006, 12:13 PM
the sheer paranoia that has overtaken the Iranian regime in response to the US/Israel's plans to invade the country

Of course, that's the reason he was arrested!

They didn't start arresting academics, journalists or students until the Seymour Hersh expose.

Jeepers.

luka
08-05-2006, 01:50 PM
yeah, that was stupid, even by padrag standards

corneilius
08-05-2006, 10:02 PM
Chomsky is an octogenarian now

the fact that the man does what he does is unbelieveable to me...he TRAVELS at an age when many have given it up.......i have many issues with the man, too...but as i have grown older, ive come to realize that the fate of the world doesnt rest with Chomsky (or any of the heroes of the ultra-left)

it rests with usIf any of us have issues with Chomsky, those issues are only valid if those with the issues are doing what he is doing. Speaking truth to power. Day in day out.

I get your appreciation of his effort, yet so much more needs to be done. Take Brian Haw for example - now there's a man who walks the talk.

The reality is that the elites and the control-freaks will kill, maim, rob, smear and otherwise attempt to undermine any and all opposition. Only the persistence and pyschological understanding that Chomksy and Brian Haw demonstrate will have any effect.

If there were 10 million Brian Haws on the streets in the UK, we (the UK Taxpayer) would not be bombing anyone or using depleted uranium.......it is time to become one of those 10 million ... it has always been time for that, and hey, people like Brian and Noam will keep doing what they do with or without our support - because they see clearly that there is no alternative.

Padraig
09-05-2006, 12:16 AM
http://www.aref-adib.com/archives/drstrangelove.jpg

Iranian President Writes Letter to Bush

From New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/08/world/middleeast/08cnd-iran.html?hp&ex=1147147200&en=d044dfdd8e6f8d9d&ei=5094&partner=homepage) [via Mazi/All Details Later (http://mazijavidiani.blogspot.com/2006/05/iranian-president-writes-letter-to.html)]

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has written a letter to President Bush with suggestions on how to resolve current international tensions, Iranian officials said today, but there was no immediate information about whether he was proposing a solution to differences over Iran's nuclear program.

Frederick Jones, the spokesman for the National Security Council, was informed just after 2:00 p.m. that the letter arrived at the White House. He said that Stephen J. Hadley, President Bush's national security adviser, would examine it along with the council's staff. He did not have any information on the tone or content of the letter or on when Mr. Bush would review it.

Officials in Iran would not disclose the contents of the letter, which was forwarded to Washington through the Swiss embassy, which represents American interests in Iran.

The letter is believed to be the first direct public communication sent by an Iranian president to an American president since ties between the nations were severed after the American Embassy in Tehran was seized in 1979.

The United States director of intelligence, John D. Negroponte, said today in a briefing in Washington that he had not read the letter, but he suspected it could be linked to discussion in the United Nations Security Council over Iran's nuclear program.

"Certainly one of the hypotheses you'd have to examine is whether and in what way the timing of the dispatch of that letter is connected with trying in some manner to influence the debate before the Security Council," Mr. Negroponte said.


They didn't start arresting academics, journalists or students until the Seymour Hersh expose.

Untrue [Hersh was exposing the paranoia of the Bush Administration]. Jahanbegloo was arrested for very different reasons. And with enought lobbying and (non-sensationalist) pressure he will be released ...

luka
09-05-2006, 09:19 AM
padrag, please tell me you realise craner was being sarcastic

Padraig
09-05-2006, 10:25 PM
padrag, please tell me you realise craner was being sarcastic

Pukrag, don't bother telling us you've derealised the distinction between sneering cynicism and innocent sarcasm ...

http://www.petersloterdijk.net/international/images/buecher/critique%20of%20cynical%20reason.png http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41176000/gif/_41176509_sarcasm_416.gif

Padraig
10-05-2006, 12:17 AM
It appears that Le Monde (http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/doc/20060509/769629_lettre.pdf) are first in the letter publishing department ...


Mr George Bush,

President of the United States of America

For sometime now I have been thinking, how one can justify the undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena -- which are being constantly debated, epecially in political forums and amongst university students. Many questions remain unanswered. These have prompted me to discuss some of the contradictions and questions, in the hopes that it might bring about an opportunity to redress them.

Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of God,

Feel obliged to respect human rights,
Present liberalism as a civilization model,
Announce one’s opposition to the proliferation of nuclear weapons and WMDs,
Make “War and Terror” his slogan,
And finally,
Work towards the establishment of a unified international community – a community which
Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day govern,
But at the same time,
Have countries attacked; The lives, reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance of the … of a … criminals in a village city, or convoy for example the entire village, city or convey set ablaze. More ... (http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12984.htm)

[Shudder ..]

craner
10-05-2006, 09:37 AM
Or: it has to be a mate of Chomsky before any of you deign to notice this shit?

You're as hypocritical as your enemies.

luka
10-05-2006, 09:50 AM
it is truly sickmaking.

droid
10-05-2006, 10:15 AM
Or: it has to be a mate of Chomsky before any of you deign to notice this shit?

You're as hypocritical as your enemies.

Get off your high horse you sanctimonius git. Just cos youve been myopically obsessing over the crimes of our official enemies, doesnt mean we all have to. Most of us already know what they get up to.

If you have something new to say about Iran start a thread. These snide little throwaway comments are getting just a little bit tedious.

Shit (cos thats what it would be) or get off the pot....

craner
10-05-2006, 11:07 AM
Well, alright. True though, isn't it?

droid
10-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Well, alright. True though, isn't it?

No - and even if it were, its a damn sight less hypocritical than supporting illegal US/UK military actions in the mid-east (and all that entails) whilst at the same time professing concern for the welfare of the peole who live there.

satanmcnugget
17-05-2006, 05:36 AM
droid,

a big-up to you!


as much as we all appreciate the mighty, mighty OC, the fact of the matter is that many of us have FELT the way that you do and not had the sheer tits to say it


not to sanctimoniously jump on OC's bones here, but ive been dying for a couple of years now to ask you: WTF???????????????? (and i didnt out of sheer respect, and who the fuck am i anyway? some doink who reads your blog religiously is all)

with all due respect, Oliver...honestly, but WTF????

baffling, really


i know that some leftists here in Canaduh have jumped on the NDP ship in the hopes of turning that particular ship "to the left" (ie. score posh govt. jobs)


???????????

(please dont bite my head off, Oliver...im asking with all due respect....ive long been an admirer of your work, and im asking in the spirit of two everyday Joe/Janes having a few at a bar)

luka
17-05-2006, 09:27 AM
really though, if you read the boys blog the arguments are all set out. you're not going to change his mind by calling him insane. its difficult but you lot really have to get your head around the idea that he just has a different take on it. its not becasue he's a fascist or a retard or a bloodthirsty devil worshipper. he's certainly set out his argument with far greater detail and clarity than you lot, its just you consider what youbeleive to be self-evident and so you thinik oliver should have to continually justify himself while you don't.

now, it drives me mad too, don't misunderstand me, but don't insult the boy. he thinks about it.

droid
17-05-2006, 09:50 AM
really though, if you read the boys blog the arguments are all set out. you're not going to change his mind by calling him insane. its difficult but you lot really have to get your head around the idea that he just has a different take on it. its not becasue he's a fascist or a retard or a bloodthirsty devil worshipper. he's certainly set out his argument with far greater detail and clarity than you lot, its just you consider what youbeleive to be self-evident and so you thinik oliver should have to continually justify himself while you don't.

Thats not the case though Luka.

Oliver has barely tried once in about the last year to justify anything, or engage in any kind of arguments unless hes dragged into them kicking and screaming, choosing instead to snipe from the sidelines (as he admitted hinself recently). If anything this behaviour gives more weight to the 'cartoon' version of himself, and I for one dont charcterise him as 'bloodthirsty' etc.. if anything, my frustration with him stems from the fact that I know he's on the ball when it comes to the mid-east, he seems willing to take on new ideas when challenged, but yet he WONT answer the hard questions or engage, as he (like yourself) seems to have decided that anyone who posts on politics is part of a homogenous chomsky-group brain with nothing whatsoever to offer to your world-wisely cooler than thou selves.


now, it drives me mad too, don't misunderstand me, but don't insult the boy. he thinks about it.

So what? So did Kissinger! (joke!) :D

But seriously - I disagree with him about almost everything, but nonetheless, he deserves as much respect as anyone else here.

luka
17-05-2006, 09:58 AM
well, his position hasn't changed from before the war started and if i was him i'd get pissed off of being asked to keep restating the same arguments week after week, year after year. surely you can see how that would be tiresome. why don't you try and engage him on something else, some other issue in the middle east or something. he is developing this sort of self-parody thing over here in response to peoples characteristions of him. he's also starting to enjoy it. i don't particulalry want to trawl through his archives looking for the posts where he lays out his arguments, i can't be bothered, but its all there. do what i do, don't mention iraq in his presence, talk about something less contentious.

droid
17-05-2006, 10:10 AM
What? Like Israel? Iran's nukes? ;)


Ive only mentioned Iraq a few times, plus - am I supposed to read his CV and trawl through his blog for qualifiers before I respond to his latest post?(I made this point in the 'Simon Jenkins' thread).

Forums are the great equaliser - no-one should come along and argue on the basis of their reputation or previous writings without referring directly back to them, no-one should try and trade on the 'respect' they think they might be due because of status or achievements. You get judged by what you post on the forum itself - if people know who you are - great - if not, then you need to explain your opinions to those that dont know who you are. Im consistently amazed that so many very clever people dont seem to get this...

You do have a point though - not about the topics of discussion, but the lack of a constructive approach.

I think we can all agree that we need a fresh start in here.

craner
17-05-2006, 05:19 PM
Droid, I told you that I thought Israel's nuclear programme was wrong. (But, yes, I also said that the fact that the Arab States had tried to liquidate Israel twice might have contributed to its existence. It was Moshe Dayan's baby really, wasn't it?) Who's ducking issues?

craner
17-05-2006, 05:21 PM
Are you saying I should stick to the prose poems, Rob?

droid
17-05-2006, 05:44 PM
Droid, I told you that I thought Israel's nuclear programme was wrong. (But, yes, I also said that the fact that the Arab States had tried to liquidate Israel twice might have contributed to its existence. It was Moshe Dayan's baby really, wasn't it?) Who's ducking issues?

Thats not quite the point I was trying to make Oliver, but I admit to not always going out of my way to be constructive myself.

Anyway - is it possible that you might start engaging with the board again, instead of the indulging in baiting and throwaway comments? Entrenched adversarialism really is pointless, and Im sure others will respond with same if you make the effort - ala your 'american power' thread.

I value dissenting opinions as long as theyre expressed honestly and reasonably - and thats what Id prefer to see rather than the descent into caricature and ad-hominems that seems to have happened here recently...

craner
17-05-2006, 07:39 PM
I don't know. Er, possibly not. I'm convinced I tried that! You won't change the tone here Droid, despite good intentions. The Dissensus politics board has always been sulphurous. Even some of the most obnoxious and opinionated fuckers shy away from it. It's had its moments of brilliance, none the less.

satanmcnugget
18-05-2006, 05:08 AM
Are you saying I should stick to the prose poems, Rob?


lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


classy response from a classy young man




do i understand your position anymore than i did before?



newp


but then, there is much that Rob doesnt understand




(why does Luka keep speaking for Oliver? and what posts has he been reading? seems awfully clear to him, anyway...am i guilty of skimming?...why has Luka been banned?? is Oliver Luka?...is Luka Cathy from Peking O?)


as Dissensus turns....) :)

:)
:)

bassnation
18-05-2006, 09:06 AM
well, his position hasn't changed from before the war started and if i was him i'd get pissed off of being asked to keep restating the same arguments week after week, year after year. surely you can see how that would be tiresome.

theres a parallel there with blair - i'm sure he finds it supremely tiring, wouldn't it be great if everyone, y'know, just moved on to something else?

there are deep divisions in the uk around this issue and its not going away anytime soon. people engage, oliver sometimes engages other times just takes the piss. thats fine too, after all its just a bloody net forum with the usual bollocks going on - lets face it, we aren't really going to sort out the worlds problems here are we? we can't even stop each other fighting.

droid
18-05-2006, 09:23 AM
after all its just a bloody net forum with the usual bollocks going on - lets face it, we aren't really going to sort out the worlds problems here are we? we can't even stop each other fighting.

I thought this place was suposed to be different? Or at least trying to be different?

What a naive fucking moron I am.

bassnation
18-05-2006, 09:35 AM
I thought this place was suposed to be different? Or at least trying to be different?

What a naive fucking moron I am.

i don't think your naive - nothing wrong with being optimistic and having hope is there?

things don't often live up to the goals of the protagonists where forums are concerned, i'd suggest. but theres always positives and i'd regard your contributions as being one of them :)