Dissensus welcomes newcomers

Woebot

Well-known member
I think the board is in great shape.

I guess it's fair to say there's some kind of crisis going on musically with Grime. People seem to think this is a Grime board, but although that music has been really important here over the past couple of years personally I'm interested to see what fascinations come to fill the slight void that has opened up.

Although there are nearly 1500 people registered I always notice that for every 1 person who is a member logged in there are 3 guests. I just wanted to say, hi to all those guests, the lurkers, and say (you know, with warmth) that they're very welcome to dive in. This is not an exclusive club.

Furthermore i will personally guarantee that you'll not be flamed out (like on many other boards) and i'd like to assure you that your opinions would be valued. I always remember feeling like a total outsider cruising ilm, which although we can all admire it for the wondrous machine it is, is often a harsh place for strangers. I'd hate people to feel that way about Dissensus.

(peace)
 
Last edited:

sufi

lala
glad you opened this thread up,

when i read that post, a few days after it was written, it did seem to me kinda myopic to be honest, bot. then when k-p's evil twin post re: nicness cropped up & it suddenly made perfect sense :)

i'm quite happy to see the way that dubstep (or at least burial) is getting plenty of coverage here - suggests to me that the board is concerned with a broad selection of music than just 1 genre...

& this ill-will that seems to be upsetting people's applecarts seems (so far) to be focussed away from the main traffic of the board in the music forum, i hope it won't impinge on the core bizness of dissensus = music. as for music regulars legging it, because of this heavy weather in the politics teacup & on entirely other sites, i can only roll my eyes to the heavens...

that said, in the current spats there were a few calls for moderation - i really support the present regime of light touch generally, coming down heavy when necessary - & while i for one must salute droids' bravery in getting between belligerents & doing his best to keep the peace - myself, i'm loathe to get into fights online ... perhaps this current dissatisfaction expressed by k-p suggests the needs for moderation in his realm of thought & politics maybe heavier


thoughts, dissensus?
 

dHarry

Well-known member
Dissensus is shit thread said:
looks like we've lost Droid, Luka, Padraig, Gutta, K-punk, Eden...
I generally like the Dissensus style of hands-off moderation; we can all take and give back a little flak from time to time.

I've done with Padraig when I tried to pull him up for belligerent behaviour to another poster, whereupon he accused me falsely of propounding that poster's opinions. Ironically I've really enjoyed most of his contributions around here however, and an outright ban seemed a mite heavy-handed, though he did force the issue. But for it to lead to the desertion of these others as well seems sad.

I have concerns with a certain in-crowd mentality, though - look at the "Dissensus is shit" thread: Hell_sd stirs it up a little as usual - but is making a point of sorts. Gutta gets abusive and calls him a bastard (a moderatable over-reaction surely?), Hell_sd responds in kind and everyone jumps on Hell_sd and he gets banned! Presumably because "everyone loves Gutta"?! From the outside that seems unfair, and maybe that's what K-punk was getting at with his dictatorship of (ostensible) niceness, which admittedly got lost in his anti-dope-smoking-dads invective.

There's something about kicking someone out and then continuing on as normal which is deeply uncomfortable, it implies a group dynamic of smug consensus and moral superiority which I abhor. I feel it's better to let people have their say and have it countered or ignored if needs be. But maybe this isn't a democracy.

I'd like to offer everyone (Padraig included) the chance to come back and get stuck in to some good old dissent about music or philosophy and put this behind us, but it's probably too late for that now... :(
 
D

droid

Guest
Im sure people have had more than enough of my theories on moderation to last a lifetime, but nonetheless...

The light touch is the way to go for sure, no-one likes to feel a moderator breathing down their necks, editing posts and throwing their weight around, but at the same time, if there is a percieved lack of moderation on a forum, people will take advantage of it, and the feeling that other users are free to intimidate and abuse your posts without censure does not create a good atmosphere for discussion.

A forum is just like a pub or any other social environment. Its nice to have an open friendly atmosphere, but by its nature, anyone can come through the doors - and eventually, some lunatic is going to wander in and start picking fights - if the bouncers are nowhere to be seen at this point someone ends up being taken to hospital.

This was the logic behind my ill judged interaction with Padraig - not that he had to be 'dealt with' - but to demonstrate to other Dissensians (including those perrenial lurkers) that they wont be subjected to the same treatment. Banning someone is all well and good, but in a case like this, the rationale behind it should be made public, both as an example of what is and isnt acceptable, and to show people that its safe to come here. (Woebots personal guarantees notwithstanding ;) ) The reactions to K-Punks thread, and some of the sentiments expressed to me in email and PMs over the past week go a long way to showing that lack of moderation can be just as much of an insidious influence as over-moderation.

To function effectively and to be recognised as legitimate, authority (and like it or not, thats what mods are) needs not only to be fair, but it must be seen to be fair. That means setting down the rules and applying them equally and transparently to all. So if there is one suggestion Id make (as others have mentioned), is to set down some very basic and specific guidelines and disclaimers. If nothing else, its in your basic self interest to do so, otherwise you may one day be held to accountable for any slander or allegations that appear here.


Good to see a bit of discussion about all this anyway. Thats a step in the right direction. Keep it up and yis might see me back here yet :p
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
in general, dissensus is very polite, if a touch PoMo at times forum. disagreeing/ arguing is good fun isn't it? but i don't think padraig needed to start threatening people, which seemed childish in a playground bully sort of way. as mentioned by others, places like uk-dance were a lot more gladiatorial in the past, and exciting for that, but go there now and not many people post- its a bit of a tightrope.


droid said:
Good to see a bit of discussion about all this anyway. Thats a step in the right direction. Keep it up and yis might see me back here yet :p

stop toying with us and come back! :)
 

bassnation

the abyss
matt b said:
places like uk-dance were a lot more gladiatorial in the past, and exciting for that, but go there now and not many people post- its a bit of a tightrope.

is that true matt? why is that? i was talking to ross the other day and he said ukd had a massive dubstep thread going on.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I personally prefer the "minimal" style of moderation that we get most of the time. In fact to be honest I don't exactly think that it's been exactly draconian at any point. Padraig, was warned to moderate himself and not be so offensive and he replied immediately with more threats, accusations and demands. He could have put the same points in a more reasonable manner and there would have been no problem yet he persisted with his rudeness in a way that pretty much forced Woebot's hand.

"I have concerns with a certain in-crowd mentality, though - look at the "Dissensus is shit" thread: Hell_sd stirs it up a little as usual - but is making a point of sorts. Gutta gets abusive and calls him a bastard (a moderatable over-reaction surely?), Hell_sd responds in kind and everyone jumps on Hell_sd and he gets banned! Presumably because "everyone loves Gutta"?! From the outside that seems unfair, and maybe that's what K-punk was getting at with his dictatorship of (ostensible) niceness, which admittedly got lost in his anti-dope-smoking-dads invective."
I can't really agree with this. I don't know Droid, Padraig, Hell or Guttabreakz but I think in each case one person was clearly in the wrong. I showed the thread that ended with Padraig being banned to some friends who had never seen dissensus before and their reaction was "what's the matter with this guy?" (and I think you know which guy they meant). It's all very well to say "it's six of one and half a dozen of the other" or "you were both guilty" but if it's not true it's unhelpful to say the least.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
bassnation said:
is that true matt? why is that? i was talking to ross the other day and he said ukd had a massive dubstep thread going on.

it seems LOADS quieter recently, although i've stopped posting after a certain dogmatic marxist started ranting uncontrollably at me ;) (still read it though). i think he may be the cause of some of the drop off. however, the dubstep stuff has been interesting- much more like it used to be (wouldn't call it massive though!).
i was never part of 'the crew' at UK-D (too much lurking, too late in starting to post), so i should keep my mouth shut!
 

mms

sometimes
dHarry said:
I
I have concerns with a certain in-crowd mentality, though - look at the "Dissensus is shit" thread: Hell_sd stirs it up a little as usual - but is making a point of sorts. Gutta gets abusive and calls him a bastard (a moderatable over-reaction surely?), Hell_sd responds in kind and everyone jumps on Hell_sd and he gets banned! Presumably because "everyone loves Gutta"?! From the outside that seems unfair, and maybe that's what K-punk was getting at with his dictatorship of (ostensible) niceness, which admittedly got lost in his anti-dope-smoking-dads invective.


I'd like to offer everyone (Padraig included) the chance to come back and get stuck in to some good old dissent about music or philosophy and put this behind us, but it's probably too late for that now... :(


well hell sd was clearly kicking a man when he was down as we all know and reacted with ott vindictiveness and very aggressive spite.

I agree that some dissent is great but simply shouting at each other and threatening each other across the internet doesn't cut it.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
mms said:
I agree that some dissent is great but simply shouting at each other and threatening each other across the internet doesn't cut it.
Yeah. Cosy consensus, useful discussion and playground name calling are three entirely seperate things...
 

mms

sometimes
Slothrop said:
Yeah. Cosy consensus, useful discussion and playground name calling are three entirely seperate things...

well yeah it's better to struggle towards a greater and deeper understanding of a difference in opinion and why - than just flouncing or back slappy bollocks, but then why you agree can equally be an interesting conversation.
Padraig and also rachel verinder created had some stimulating positions and ideas but padraig esp seemed to just bait the entire board, everyone else not checking his posts were unenlightened dullards and anyone engaging in them was too unless they agreed with him it seems. Saying that i'd love to have him back as his starting posts (which were mainly lifted from his blog ) were fascinating anf thought provoking, he just managed to alienate.
i hope stelfox, droid and gutter etc don't jump ship because their expertise, engagement and enthusiasim would really be missed, so don't fuck off please.
 
Last edited:

jenks

thread death
mms said:
i hope stelfox, droid and gutter etc don't jump ship because their expertise, engagement and enthusiasim would really be missed, so don't fuck off please.

totally seconded
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
Hell SD has only been banned for a month so it's not too bad, just a chance for him to moderate how he expresses himself sometimes.

UKD is in robust good health right now funnily enough. It's delightfully PLURy, lots of old friends plus some bouncy newcomers - and the occasional quite OTT all-in flamefest. (The occasionally humourless marxists are alright 90% of the time these days!)

Anyway, back on topic - yes newcomers will be made very welcome. Please don't feel nervous about posting, the people here are very nice - I've met lots of them and they're ace.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
2stepfan said:
the people here are very nice - I've met lots of them and they're ace.

unless, of course, your CD player is spinning Ben Lee and Jack Johnson... then you might have some problems here.
 

bassnation

the abyss
2stepfan said:
You know how much I like Jack Johnson, Martin's already given me a kicking for it!

i like jack johnson too - my wife plays it all the time. she doesn't have much time for my bass excursions but nothing wrong with having a bit of household diversity.
 
Top