GOTH ROCK (or dark glam?)

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Buick6

too punk to drunk
Been listening to Sisters of Mercy, Floodland, great 80s pop/rock record. Sure they had their wanky goth image, but some great ROCK tunes to be found here, notably, Dominion, Theis Corrosion and Lucretia/My Reflection. Thier lead singer has a GREAT voice, and probably the main reason why none of those pissweak emo/contempo goth bands can't match up. There's was also a really potent sexuality going on with their sound, that hasn't really been matched in whitebread rock for ages. The Sisters of Mercy songs are one of the more popular soundtracks for strippers, incidentally.


It's funny how in the 90s or now there weren't more bands that took the SOM sound. They had quite a decent 'floor/dance' type beat and big histrionic rock. Halford tried it and failed, NiN had their moments and Type O Negative I still don't know about, prolly the closest, though they were more droney and psyched out were Monster Magnet in their few inspired moments... There was lots of drek like Orgy, but I think ultimately none of them have really bettered the template left by SOM in their brief career.
 
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mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
You're a very brave man. I was too chicken to do a Sisters Of Mercy post. I've been listening to them all weekend funnily enough, alot to the Reptile House EP, I cut off with them after Temple Of Love really, but I have to agree with you, they're definitely one of the sexiest bands around, and Eldritch had still to be bettered both as a front man and for his vision of rawwwk.
I think some Big Black ( Bad Houses, Kerosene ), definitely some Rapeman and the occasional Shellac track did a similar sex thing very well.
My all-time favourite sex record has to be 'Ruins' by Skullflower though. And some Bette Davis tracks.
 
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throughsilver

Well-known member
Buick6 said:
It's funny how in the 90s or now there weren't more bands that took the SOM sound. They had quite a decent 'floor/dance' type beat and big histrionic rock. Halford tried it and failed, NiN had their moments and Type O Negative I still don't know about, prolly the closest, though they were more droney and psyched out were Monster Magnet in their few inspired moments...
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Sounds to me like you want the early 90s Swans albums. They'd got more melodic than they were when they started, the mix had got really lush, but it was still killer levels of dark and obviously Gira's voice is as deep and menacing as they come (without turning pantomime).

It's weird; I was a pretty big fan of Type O Neg back in about 1996, and October Rust is really interesting in the sense that a massive man who had been in a hardcore band suddenly wanted to be Cocteau Twins and nearly pulled it off. However, I found the Love Of Life vinyl in a second hand shop in late '97 (I had only read about Swans prior to that), and thought 'so that's where he got the idea'.

[edit] Also, Marilyn Manson's early 'Dope Hat' single is strangely compelling. It was back when he'd rather be a disgusting Willy Wonka than some kind of dark lord, and it's danceable, meaty and nasty.
 
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shaun L

Member
Throughsilver is totally spot-on regarding the Swans. The live album Omniscience (from 1992) pretty much renders Goth Rock completely redundant. I regret not getting into them sooner, a friend of mine at school mocked my modish enthusiasm for SOM and the fields of the nephilim by comparing them unfavourably to the 'Children of God' era Swans- I just dismissed him as a hipster... but in reality I was the pranny- blowing all my cash on Sisters of Mercy live albums and obscure 'Neph' singles.
 
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polystyle

Well-known member
black Sisters Of Mercy T Shirt

I hear you 'Sloane on the Reptile House and Temple Of Love ,
The Sisters remain , Andrew E still collecting royalty cheques ,
but he did trot out a luke warm show here recently from what I heard though .

Some great songs that still work (Marian , Black Planet from "First , Last and Always")
Often the music was written by W Hussy who became Fields Of ...

Gira and Swans . Hmmm , would have never imagined them in the same thread as The Sisters ,
but what the hey ... whatever works for ya
 
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johneffay

Well-known member
Buick6 said:
SOM in their brief career.
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Not sure about this bit: True, they haven't released a record in decades due to Eldritch (who basically is SoM) getting pissy with his record company, but they're still fairly active. I saw them live a couple of weeks ago and they were outstanding: vague figures looming out of smoke playing sort of pop thrash.

They're not one of my favourite bands, but I think that once they got over the doing piss-poor imitations of Joy Division, they managed to knock out three very good albums. I agree that Floodland is great, but it does take some of the shine off it when you realise that most of the much vaunted 'deep and intellectual' lyrics are Eldritch whining about Wayne Hussey.

Personally, I think that the best of the old school goth stuff is encapsulated in The Banshees and Bauhaus.
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
are you all on a Mission to make me relive my teenage years?

I think the Swans have a lot of influence from this sound/share some of the same aesthetic. Michael Gira's voice is even similar. but they took it to a much more complex place IMO, formally and content wise. anyone heard the mellow Gira side project - World of Skin? melancholic, resolute, funereal, tender and sad. just beautiful.
 
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gek-opel

entered apprentice
Confucius: Didn't Swans have at least for the first few albums a quite explicit level of raging political content which puts them far from your usual Goth stuff? I also thought perhaps Swans were more of a kind of post no-wave type act rather than Goth (although later they shifted to a slightly more overtly goth friendly sound).
 
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polystyle

Well-known member
I wouldn't call it Goth Rock or Death Rock
Narrowly focusing on Sisters I would just call it 'Goth'

on Swans again : Gira's previous to Swans group , Circus Mort did have it's 'glam' tinge
mainly coming from the G man himself.
Seeing the proverbial lightbulb go off above Gira's head at the SPK CBGB's show in early pre Swans '80's
makes me think the whole Swans thing was about that heaviness.
Different group , quite different agenda .

Can imagine Sisters going on and on , certainly Goth per see didn't go away ...
Siouxsie's new solo Album due soon too

The Goths I have to rate as the ones who sacked Rome
 
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mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I think Gira always wanted to do more with rock - explode its potential, maybe - whereas Eldrich always seeemed to be happy with rock in and for itself. I certainly think the light given off by both bands is different - Swans actively sought transcendent, golden colours, post Children of God anyway - whereas the Sisters, well, they're just sleazier, it's more black spotted with elements of colour. Eldritch like prostitutes, whereas Gira thought he was one.
 
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shaun L

Member
New Mind

Whilst we're on Swans, here's a link to the new mind video.


It sort of reminds me of a Sisters video... camera tracking singer, lots of pacing about, hats, dunno what Gira's doing with an axe tho'.
IMO the Sisters of Mercy are an early example of record collector rock- a bit of stooges, bit of joy division, David Bowie's sunglasses... whereas Swans are interested in imbuing a fairly standard post-stooges/VU rock format with an immense atavistic force.
 
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Buick6

too punk to drunk
I don't mind some of Giras recent stuff with Angels of Light, but I used to pick on Swans' fans in their 'raping a slave' days, I'd egg them on to hurry up and commit suicide, shit like that!

The Mission can get fucked. End of story.

Deathrock, isn't that Slipknot offshot , I think they're the 'murderdolls' death rock? I guess goth-rock slips into death/grind/smash core...

My next thread however will kill you all!
 
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Buick6

too punk to drunk
I don't mind some of Giras recent stuff with Angels of Light, but I used to pick on Swans' fans in their 'raping a slave' days, I'd egg them on to hurry up and commit suicide, shit like that!

The Mission can get fucked. End of story.

Deathrock, isn't that Slipknot offshot , I think they're the 'murderdolls' death rock? I guess goth-rock slips into death/grind/smash core...

Then you have the Misfits, etc..etc..arr fuggit!

Just give me Dragonforce and to hell with it. i like music that makes me feel like a fuckhead, and Dragonforce are doing just that!
 
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throughsilver

Well-known member
gek-opel said:
Confucius: Didn't Swans have at least for the first few albums a quite explicit level of raging political content which puts them far from your usual Goth stuff? I also thought perhaps Swans were more of a kind of post no-wave type act rather than Goth (although later they shifted to a slightly more overtly goth friendly sound).
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I'm not Confucius, but: Yeah, they were part of that NY scene at the start of the 80s, making absolutely brutal and disturbing music (think: Godflesh, 1989-92; Neurosis, 1993-6). Wouldn't say it was overtly political, though, unless you're counting personal politics. The themes were very sado-masochistic and hating.

However, as with so many of that generation (Cave, Bargeld, Rollins, Thirlwell, SY, even Mackaye, I suppose), Gira severely mellowed out.

The music he made from 1987 was more palatable than that which had gone before, and reached an apex with Love Of Life and White Light From The Mouth Of Infinity, before returning to a different kind of dark for their swansong (har!) Soundtracks For The Blind. He's since gone even more melodic for his Angels Of Light material, but that's not very Goth at all.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
christ that is a silly video. they look like pretentious dorks. a great example of the visuals totally trivializing the magesty of recorded material... how can anyone take clowns like these seriously???

I started a thread a long time ago about good musicians with bad taste in visual design and good visual artists with horrible taste in music... but it was not very well received. this is what I was talking about
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"It sort of reminds me of a Sisters video... camera tracking singer, lots of pacing about, hats, "
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Strangely enough I was sitting in a pub yesterday and This Corrosion came on the jukebox. This sparked one of my friends to tell me that the final straw that lead to the Sisters/Mission split was when Wayne Hussey wore a cowboy hat during a gig which lead to Eldritch feeling that he had been upstaged. As revenge for this terrible affront he insisted that Hussey had to sit in the back of the van on his own on the way back from the gig which in turn prompted him to leave the band.
 
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