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polystyle desu
08-06-2006, 01:13 PM
Well , in what hopefully helps bring some good things to the Iraqi people (like some peace),
the Air Force did take out Al Zarqawi .
Did appear he was the one who not only wanted to divide the people ,
he didn't mind that school bus' full of citizens were killed and so on.
Not excusing the US war in any way , mind you

craner
09-06-2006, 02:57 PM
I marked the occasion with cocktails.

IdleRich
09-06-2006, 03:00 PM
How much difference do you actually think it's going to make? I mean, it's got to be a good thing I guess but nobody seems to be getting that excited about it.

foret
09-06-2006, 03:04 PM
hopefully the resistance will now reorient itself to the important work of killing american soldiers rather than shi'ites

Rambler
09-06-2006, 03:17 PM
the important work of killing american soldiers

What. The. Fuck. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

bassnation
09-06-2006, 03:20 PM
How much difference do you actually think it's going to make? I mean, it's got to be a good thing I guess but nobody seems to be getting that excited about it.

after all, theres no shortage of people willing to step up and fill his shoes. killing one man doesn't change that much, especially with the structure that al qaida has.

i hope it does change things, but theres something decidely undignified about blair parading his glee in the media.

adruu
09-06-2006, 03:21 PM
from greg.org

Zarqawi Portrait Sets Record Price for Photography (http://greg.org/2006/06/zarqawi_portrait_sets_record_p.html)
http://greg.org/zarqawi_framed.jpg

Wow, if there was any doubt about where the contemporary art market is going, they were dispelled this morning at Christie's Baghdad, where the US Government paid a record-setting $286 billion--plus $240 for framing--for this portrait of the dead Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. [Note: Sale price also does not include KBR's premium of 17.5% on the first $200 billion and 10% thereafter or the 2,485 US soldiers killed as of press time.]

Congratulations, even though it's gotta suck a little bit; the Administration had been offered the portrait multiple times in 2002 at much lower cost [estimated in the low eight figures], but turned it down. Of course, at the time, the market was more intrested in Al Qaeda portraits, and Zarqawi was not connected to Al Qaeda.

IdleRich
09-06-2006, 03:33 PM
"after all, theres no shortage of people willing to step up and fill his shoes. killing one man doesn't change that much, especially with the structure that al qaida has."
Totally agree. It's just a complete mess and I'm sure that there is already another al-Zarqawi already in place. I just really can't imagine what would have to happen for things to improve in Iraq right now.

Omaar
09-06-2006, 04:26 PM
Yeah what is up with that picture frame? Is that standard practice? so Bizarre.

sufi
09-06-2006, 04:53 PM
got to be a good thing
so why should he not have been tried in court by the state like any other villain?
assassination is yet another criminal act,

i mean it's not like there's a war on or anything is there?? :(

bruno
09-06-2006, 08:58 PM
so why should he not have been tried in court by the state like any other villain?
how antiquated! why put them on trial when you can blow them up? seriously, though, this man was an evil bastard. he had it coming.

DJ PIMP
09-06-2006, 11:05 PM
Yeah what is up with that picture frame? Is that standard practice? so Bizarre.Adds a little gravitas to the subject?

bassnation
10-06-2006, 08:25 AM
how antiquated! why put them on trial when you can blow them up? seriously, though, this man was an evil bastard. he had it coming.

if the case is so clear cut, then why not submit him to a court of justice?

far more humiliating than martyrdom too.

he may well have been an evil bastard, but we descend to the same level too easily. the lines are far too blurred.

foret
11-06-2006, 02:24 AM
What. The. Fuck. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

think i was being a bit of a cunt when i posted that
however some of the stories of american war crimes ('little' war crimes rather than the ur-war crime of the war/occupation itself) sicken me, and i'm sure they are many more that happen out of sight; on newsnight a couple of months ago a former soldier spoke of how they could get away with killing pretty much anybody

some of those deserve everything they get

and that's before i even think of fallujah, which just got written out of history (first place they 'recaptured' was the hospital to prevent news of all the dead children leaking)

zhao
11-06-2006, 02:31 AM
well it's only natural for freedom fighters to defend their homeland against invading, imperialist terrorists. I know it's more complex than that, but at gut level that's how I feel.

hundredmillionlifetimes
11-06-2006, 03:52 AM
http://www.eeb.uconn.edu/Courses/EEB271/Primulaceae/Scarlet_pimpernel.jpg

"They seek him here, they seek him there.

"Those Frenchies seek him everywhere.

"Is he in heaven? Is he in hell?

"That demned elusive Pimpernel?"

Fisk [Zarqawi's end is not a famous victory, nor will it bring Iraq any nearer to peace (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article753509.ece)]: "So, it's another "mission accomplished". The man immortalised by the Americans as the most dangerous terrorist since the last most dangerous terrorist, is killed - by the Americans. A Jordanian corner-boy who could not even lock and load a machine gun is blown up by the US Air Force - and Messrs Bush and Blair see fit to boast of his demise. To this have our leaders descended. And how short are our memories. "

Schechter [ Dissecting the Zarqawi Spectacle (http://newsdissector.org/blog/wp-print.php?p=1972)]: "Timing is everything. And to the managers of the Iraq War, perception has always trumped reality. From the beginning it was a war of media stunts—the attempt to assassinate Saddam with 50 cruise missiles before the invasion, the Shock and Awe, the bringing down of the statues, Jessica Lynch, Saddam in the hole, the purple fingered Iraq election and many events staged for media consumption.
The essence of information/media warfare is to seize the advantage, frame the story, and capture the audiences’ imagination from the staged flags of Iwo Jima to that not so safe house in Baquba.

And now we have the bloodied head of the feared Zarqawi displayed on TV by the very military that will not allow us to see the American dead coming home. He was brought down by not one, but two, 500 pound bombs, in a later televised operation that CNN tells us cost $500,000 and has been underway for months. (And despite their devastating impact was apparently not blown to smithereens.)

CNN CUTS INFLAMMATORY INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL BERG RE ZARQAWI

By Blake Fleetwood - June 8, 2006

HUFFINGTON POST - This morning I watched CNN's Soledad O'Brien conduct an incredible interview with Michael Berg, the father of Nick Berg, who was beheaded by al-Zarqawi, but the most interesting and upsetting part of the interview was cut from further broadcasts on CNN later on in the day.

They had Berg on many times, but they didn't have the following provocative thoughts. (see below).

CNN must have considered the words too inflammatory to put on the mainstream media. They balanced the coverage with predictable interviews with other relatives of Zarqawi victims:

BERG: Democracy? Come on. You can't really believe that that's a democracy there when the people who are running the elections are holding guns. That's not democracy.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: There is a theory that as they try to form some kind of government that, in fact, it's going to be brutal, it's going to be bloody, there's going to be loss and that's the history of many countries, that that's just a lot of people pay for what they believe will be better than what they had under Saddam Hussein.

BERG: Well, you know, I'm not saying Saddam Hussein was a good man, but he's no worse than George Bush. Saddam Hussein didn't pull the trigger, didn't commit the rapes. Neither did George Bush, but both men are responsible for them under their reigns of terror. I don't buy that.

Iraq did not have al Qaeda in it. Al Qaeda supposedly killed my son. Under Saddam Hussein, no al Qaeda. Under George Bush, al Qaeda. Under Saddam Hussein, relative stability. Under George Bush, instability. Under Saddam Hussein, about 30,000 deaths a year. Under George Bush, about 60,000 deaths a year ...

I DON'T GET IT. WHY IS IT BETTER TO HAVE GEORGE BUSH BE THE KING OF IRAQ RATHER THAN SADDAM HUSSEIN? [italics added]

[endquote] - Censored CNN interview (http://www.globalresearch.ca/Pri...? articleId=2608 )

http://www.comp.dit.ie/dgordon/League/OtherLeagues/1780s/scarecrow.jpg http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3784/589/1600/V4VendettaIdea2.jpg

Eric
11-06-2006, 04:20 AM
>THE KING OF IRAQ

Nice.

And, agreed with the above; surely the death of al-Zarqawi won't have much more impact overall than any other media opportunity, despite the crowing that's going on now in the American press.

bruno
11-06-2006, 04:43 AM
if the case is so clear cut, then why not submit him to a court of justice?

far more humiliating than martyrdom too.

he may well have been an evil bastard, but we descend to the same level too easily. the lines are far too blurred.
all i'm saying is he had it coming, meaning he couldn't have expected but to be treated according to the standards of the current u.s. administration. which seems to be inspired by an old-school eye for an eye, live by the sword die by the sword brand of justice. here there are no human rights, no due process, just plain old-fashioned retaliation, lex talionis. whether this is a good development or not is open to debate, but this is what we are seeing. i think the u.s. is aiming at a more symbolic justice, something to compete with the kind of justice exacted by the highjackers on 9/11. to beat them at their own game. terrifying times ahead, i think.

now let's be clear about al zarqawi. he wasn't a freedom fighter, but a butcher. those who lost their lives in his attacks were innocent people, arabs and non-arabs. in my opinion good riddance, the world is a better place without him.

bassnation
11-06-2006, 07:32 AM
now let's be clear about al zarqawi. he wasn't a freedom fighter, but a butcher. those who lost their lives in his attacks were innocent people, arabs and non-arabs.

indeed, i agree with your summary. the problem is, you could take that last sentence and replace al zarqawi with the western forces and it would still be correct. everyone thinks they are entirely justified in murdering yet more people. like you said, a frightening situation.

and this thing of the victors leaking photos of corpses to the media - its reminescent of impaling heads on the castle gate. i'm not sure that we've moved on so much from those days. having said that, i suppose people doubt the truth of such events unless theres documentary evidence.

i hope the iraqis will be able to bring some peace to their lives one day soon.

hundredmillionlifetimes
11-06-2006, 11:40 AM
... i suppose people doubt the truth of such events unless theres documentary evidence.

Unless there's pornographic evidence (its http://www.jayfugmik.com/Material/Signs%20of%20the%20time/Sign%20Buttons/50-Censored_but.jpg ).

Did we see any mutilated corpses on - or after - 9/11 in the mainstream media? Nada. Sanitised. Air-brushed out: the fantasy of immortal Western purity has to be preserved and sustained, as with the total media blackout on white corpses (as opposed to black ones, which were broadcast everywhere in the racist media) after Hurricane Katrina, as with the total media blackout on inward-bound US bodybags from Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.iraqsnuclearmirage.com/images/Dead_US_soldier.jpg http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/sep2004/1casket08.jpg

Slothrop
12-06-2006, 10:55 AM
think i was being a bit of a cunt when i posted that
however some of the stories of american war crimes ('little' war crimes rather than the ur-war crime of the war/occupation itself) sicken me, and i'm sure they are many more that happen out of sight; on newsnight a couple of months ago a former soldier spoke of how they could get away with killing pretty much anybody

some of those deserve everything they get
I don't know... I obviously wouldn't defend what they're doing, but it seems that this sort of stuff is part and parcel of what will happen when an army that's been recruited and trained in the way that the allied one has gets put into a position like they're currently in. If I tried to land a jumbo jet, my training and preparation wouldn't be up to the situation and I'd probably crash it, but the fault would lie with whoever let some yahoo off the street try to land the thing. Likewise, when you grab (in a lot of cases) stupid people, give them guns, train them to kill, and send them out to a place where everyone's trying to kill them then they probably aren't going to respond well. But IMO the fault lies with the people whose idea the whole thing was.

It's disgusting to see Bush and Blair expressing their profound shock that soldiers would behave in this way, and that the war would have been so nice if they'd just behaved themselves. The responsibility for these crimes has to lie with the people who caused them to happen.

bassnation
12-06-2006, 04:02 PM
Did we see any mutilated corpses on - or after - 9/11 in the mainstream media? Nada. Sanitised. Air-brushed out: the fantasy of immortal Western purity has to be preserved and sustained, as with the total media blackout on white corpses (as opposed to black ones, which were broadcast everywhere in the racist media) after Hurricane Katrina, as with the total media blackout on inward-bound US bodybags from Iraq and Afghanistan.

excuse my niavety, but wouldn't this backfire? viewing those images certainly makes me feel angry and upset - the fact that they exclusively feature "the other" only serves to harden my feelings about the rights and wrongs of the conflict.

although you could construe it negatively as pornography i think its important that people understand the reality of war - and maybe a strong emotional reaction is part of that, feeling the shame we should be feeling.

but yeah, it could be more balanced. paradoxically, they keep count of our losses but don't bother with those of the enemy. not sure how this squares with your immortality fantasy theory though.

IdleRich
12-06-2006, 04:14 PM
"the total media blackout on inward-bound US bodybags from Iraq and Afghanistan."
Well it's simple isn't it? US bodies show that the war is going badly and need to be hidden, enemy bodies show that it's going well, let's get the pictures out there!


"total media blackout on white corpses (as opposed to black ones, which were broadcast everywhere in the racist media) after Hurricane Katrina"
I'm not sure what you're saying here. The media is racist and black bodies are more acceptable? I don't buy that. You could just as easily argue that showing more black bodies than white is an attempt to show how the hurricane disproportionately affected the black community and is an attempt to draw people's attention to the racism in society. To my mind though the obvious explanation for seeing more black corpses on tv is that there were more of them.

hundredmillionlifetimes
13-06-2006, 03:51 PM
... The media is racist and black bodies are more acceptable?

http://nyc.indymedia.org/images/2005/10/58492.jpg

IdleRich
13-06-2006, 04:23 PM
Yeah, I've seen that before, I'm not saying that the media isn't racist as such, I'm saying that I'm not certain that it serves a racist agenda to show more black bodies than white after the hurricane. I would say that when people saw that the hurricane was affecting the black community so disproportionately they immediately started asking why.

corneilius
13-06-2006, 05:53 PM
The main stream media, mostly owned and controlled by white men, is the hypnotist, and school is where we learn to be hynotised.....

some are hypnotised by tits and titilation, spite and innuendo, some are hypnotised by the increasing value of their property and the holidays they plan to take abroad, others still are hypnotised by the capitalist ideal, that endless wealth will mean that eventually the trickle down from that immense pool of riches will be such that there is no poverty and that's what history and school in general really is about .....

setting that fairy tale in the forefront of any rational discussion on the issue, thus distorting dissent from the perspective of those who comply .... unconsciously, through conditioning some people really cannot see the truth.

They are the people the mainstream media seek to manipulate and control. Our brothers and sisters.

We must talk to each other. That is what is happening on the net right now, and is happening in neighbourhoods around the world. We are talking to each other, the family of humanity, across oceans and landmasses and much truth is being revealed. And much that is a distraction too. Heed it not.

corneilius
13-06-2006, 06:01 PM
By the way, I believe the US has killed Zarqwahi about 5 times already .......

http://derekpgilbert.com/?p=2159

droid
14-06-2006, 02:38 PM
No Collateral Damage? (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/08/iraq.al.zarqawi/index.html)

Link to video in article. 3rd paragraph.