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Ned
06-07-2006, 11:04 AM
I'm eating 7-8 rashers a day, every day, at the moment.

HMGovt
06-07-2006, 03:13 PM
I'm eating 7-8 rashers a day, every day, at the moment.

Smokey bacon = certain death at that level of consumption.

Otherwise you'll be fine until the heart attack or kidney failure gets you.

noel emits
06-07-2006, 03:41 PM
it's not very good for the pigs either.

/veggie propaganda

simon silverdollar
06-07-2006, 04:39 PM
how on earth did you get into the habit of eating 8 rashers of bacon a day?! is that in one sitting, or do you have 2 or 3 meals of bacon per day?

gek-opel
06-07-2006, 04:42 PM
This is actually brilliant! Incredible.

sufi
06-07-2006, 07:02 PM
!!!!!! اعوذ بالله من لحم حرااااام

foret
06-07-2006, 10:04 PM
my mother always used to cook about 10 slices of pancetta (not sure how that compares to northern european salted dead pig) before school when i were a littl'un and it never did me any harm, i was consistenly underweight too

the worst thing about it might be the tapeworm eggs which can hatch in your eyes and make you go blind, or give you tapeworms, obviously, so be hygenic y'all

foret
06-07-2006, 10:07 PM
!!!!!! اعوذ بالله من لحم حرااااام

[aae'wdh] in Allah from welding [Hraaaaaaaaaam] ???

Ned
06-07-2006, 10:25 PM
how on earth did you get into the habit of eating 8 rashers of bacon a day?! is that in one sitting, or do you have 2 or 3 meals of bacon per day?

For some reason I just barely know any recipes that don't involve bacon. For lunch I might have a brie and bacon sandwhich or a bacon and cream cheese bagel, then for supper I might have spaghetti carbonara or pasta with a tomato, mascarpone and bacon sauce. Obviously I could substitute other things for bacon in those recipes if necessary, I'm just trying to find out if I have to.

foret
06-07-2006, 10:36 PM
bacon and cream cheese bagel

that would give an observant jew at least three cardiac arrests :0

sufi
07-07-2006, 04:50 PM
!!!!!! اعوذ بالله من لحم حرااااام[aae'wdh] in Allah from welding [Hraaaaaaaaaam] ???= god protect us from illegal meat :)

Freakaholic
07-07-2006, 05:26 PM
whats a rasher?


"everythings better with bacon"

michael
07-07-2006, 11:21 PM
Maybe it's too obvious to come right out and say it, but bacon is really high in saturated fats (bad for cholestrol) and dearest salt.

I tend to think eating meat at every meal would be bad for you, but bacon is especially fatty.

Still, based on your (tasty sounding) recipes above all the dairy might get you first... :(

Lichen
08-07-2006, 08:43 AM
whats a rasher?
A slice (only refers to bacon) i.e you can't a have a rasher of cheese or cake

zhao
08-07-2006, 06:10 PM
in the short term the carcenogens created by your stomach's inability to deal with all that cooked animal protean will give you lower energy levels, decreased ability to focus and concentrate, and probably a few unwanted pounds added to your physique.

in the long term you are looking at high blood pressure, clogged veins, heart problems, or, even if pork tends to stay and rot in your lower intestines slightly less than beef (years and years), there is always the increasingly, wildly, popular choice: prostate/colon cancer.

sorry to break it to ya. ain't nothin' you put in your body you don't pay for down the road. and the price just may be cancer of the butt.

tryptych
08-07-2006, 06:54 PM
even if pork tends to stay and rot in your lower intestines slightly less than beef (years and years),



I'm pretty sure this is a myth propounded by various groups. Every biologist I've ever talked to rubbishs it - the bacteria in your gut are damn good at breaking stuff down.

Hvaing said that, there are definate links between eating a lot of red meat and bowel cancer later in life. Plus, pigs are one of the most mistreated farmed animals, after chickens - kept in very cramped conditions and stuffed full of antibiotics. Danish bacon is especially bad, apparently - their laws are more lax than, say the UKs.

A quick look at the food charts shows that eating 200g of bacon would give you over the maximum daily recommended intake of sodium.

Ned
09-07-2006, 11:56 AM
Still, based on your (tasty sounding) recipes above all the dairy might get you first... :(

Not convinced by this, if you look at the PETA web page (http://www.petaindia.com/vdairy.html) on the risks of dairy, the best they can come up with is:

1. doesn't protect against osteoperosis: wasn't assuming it did
2. cardiovascular disease: don't want this but I have a healthy lifestyle otherwise
3. cancer: not going to get ovarian or breast cancer
4. diabetes: don't have it
5. lactose intolerance: don't have it
6. not a good source of Vitamin D: again, wasn't assuming it was
7. contaminants: you can get organic
8. health concern in infants and children: not a problem

fldsfslmn
10-07-2006, 03:54 AM
my mother always used to cook about 10 slices of pancetta (not sure how that compares to northern european salted dead pig) before school when i were a littl'un and it never did me any harm, i was consistenly underweight too

the worst thing about it might be the tapeworm eggs which can hatch in your eyes and make you go blind, or give you tapeworms, obviously, so be hygenic y'all


British bacon is leaner and less salty than pancetta. Canadian bacon (and I'd imagine American as well) is worse than either pancetta or British bacon, resembling nothing more than lard pressed into strips. When I've had British bacon I've found it too "realistic" and longed for that noxious artificial Canadian Maple flavour that clings to your hands even after you've scrubbed them with soap . . .

I know British people like to complain about the state of their food, but really, your foodstuffs are often quite luxurious from a Canadian perspective.

Eat up!

michael
10-07-2006, 04:11 AM
Not convinced by this, if you look at the PETA web page (http://www.petaindia.com/vdairy.html) on the risks of dairy, the best they can come up with is:

Yeah, sorry, was half-joking... I was just thinking of piling on the fat, really, with all that cheese and cream.

baboon2004
10-07-2006, 03:20 PM
I ate ten rashers in about half an hour once, and felt like I was having a heart attack.

zhao
10-07-2006, 05:10 PM
I'm pretty sure this is a myth propounded by various groups.

I don't think so.


pigs are one of the most mistreated farmed animals, after chickens - kept in very cramped conditions and stuffed full of antibiotics. Danish bacon is especially bad, apparently - their laws are more lax than, say the UKs.

and pigs are smarter than dogs. but I have a hard time getting behind the animal rights cause because humans are ALSO smarter than dogs but is subject to routine mal-treatment often worse than pigs or chickens.

Lichen
10-07-2006, 05:17 PM
Supermarket bacon, allmost without exception is foul.

Try Jack Scaife for the proper taste of bacon.

And no, this isn't SPAM, it's bacon

bassnation
10-07-2006, 05:45 PM
Not convinced by this, if you look at the PETA web page (http://www.petaindia.com/vdairy.html) on the risks of dairy, the best they can come up with is:

1. doesn't protect against osteoperosis: wasn't assuming it did
2. cardiovascular disease: don't want this but I have a healthy lifestyle otherwise
3. cancer: not going to get ovarian or breast cancer
4. diabetes: don't have it
5. lactose intolerance: don't have it
6. not a good source of Vitamin D: again, wasn't assuming it was
7. contaminants: you can get organic
8. health concern in infants and children: not a problem

you can develop diabetes at any point in your life (with some people being more susceptible to others).

plus they also mention prostrate cancer.

you can also get cardiovascular disease if you eat a lot of red meat even if you live an otherwise healthy lifestyle. in fact i'd go as far to say that large amounts of red meat does not equal a healthy lifestyle full stop. theres nothing wrong with it in moderation though.

personally i don't feel very good if i eat red meat dishes for a couple of days running.

zhao
10-07-2006, 05:48 PM
it's the fact that the animal protein, red or not, is COOKED that toxifies your system and leads to cancer.

raw red meat is very good for you (provided, of course, that it is properly prepared and cleaned and all that)

bassnation
10-07-2006, 05:53 PM
it's the fact that the animal protein, red or not, is COOKED that toxifies your system and leads to cancer.

raw red meat is very good for you (provided, of course, that it is properly prepared and cleaned and all that)

mate, you'd be nuts to eat raw meat in the uk. even cooked meat has been a death sentence for some people. i know enough about the standards of food production here to not want to even consider it.

Ned
10-07-2006, 09:22 PM
you can develop diabetes at any point in your life (with some people being more susceptible to others).

You can only get 'child-onset' diabetes when you're a child, surely.

tryptych
11-07-2006, 12:13 PM
even if pork tends to stay and rot in your lower intestines slightly less than beef (years and years)


Alright then, got any evidence?

It just doesn't make sense logically - where is all this meat stored, and why doesn't it block up the flow of other food?


it's the fact that the animal protein, red or not, is COOKED that toxifies your system and leads to cancer.

Actually, it's more complicated than that. There's no consensus on exactly why red meat is linked with increased bowel cancer - one theory is that it's because of the production of heterocyclic amines, carcinogens that are produced in cooking. However, cooking white meat also produces these carcinogens, but white meat does not show a link with bowel cancer.

Other theories are that its something specific to red meat - possibly haemoglobin, or it's linked to sulpher and sulphate eating bacteria, which feed on the sulpher based preservatives which you will find in almost all processed food, and also red meat.



mate, you'd be nuts to eat raw meat in the uk. even cooked meat has been a death sentence for some people. i know enough about the standards of food production here to not want to even consider it.


I'm assuming you mean dangers from food poisoning.

I've eaten raw beef (as carpaccio etc) plenty of times and very rare beef, lamb and venison even more. Meat with high amounts of saturated fat impedes the growth of bacteria - which is why you can hang a side of beef for months then eat it rare without getting ill. Meat with low saturated fat like chicken and fish goes off very quickly, so your much more likely to get ill from poorly cooked seafood and chicken than raw beef.



More generally, I think the "dangers" of red meat for health are masked by the presence of other negative factors - trans fatty acids, processed vegetable oils, salt and sugar. All of which are present in processed foods, and it's difficult to find large numbers of people who eat a lot of red meat but not processed meat

neupunk
11-07-2006, 06:54 PM
The idea of things sticking in your intestines, whether it's meat or "toxins," is pretty much the territory of "healthy" people who think that things like colon therapy, repeated enemas and fasting, and long sauna breaks are ways to somehow detoxify the body. It's a way to lose weight, to be sure, but you're not removing anything from your body that you didn't recently put into it as the human digestive system is pretty damn efficient.

The grossest part is when people who have gone through this sort of thing and claim that they were able to see "toxic substances" in the toilet, which are in fact things like ultra-compressed waste from the churning they've put their gut through, or long stringy bits that are actually intestinal lining that's sloughed off.

That said, I'd probably be sick if I ate bacon every day, let alone several times a day. That much fat and grease will definitely cause long-term distress.

droid
11-07-2006, 07:53 PM
Pigs can play video games. (http://aginfo.psu.edu/Psa/fw97/eye.html)

zhao
12-07-2006, 12:47 AM
sorry, but I don't have time to break it down or site medical references. all I can say is millions of colon cancer victims don't lie. and my personal experiences sure as HELL don't lie.

in the past 2 years or so I've realized that some of the very basic assumptions we have about our bodies are completely wrong.

if you are interested in this, just go do some research.

tryptych
12-07-2006, 04:59 PM
sorry, but I don't have time to break it down or site medical references. all I can say is millions of colon cancer victims don't lie. and my personal experiences sure as HELL don't lie.

in the past 2 years or so I've realized that some of the very basic assumptions we have about our bodies are completely wrong.

if you are interested in this, just go do some research.

I'm not doubting that high fat, high meat diets are linked with colon cancer. I'm simply disputing the claim that "meat stays in your gut for years and years".

Here's a recent thing from the BBC which explains the uncertainties in causes of bowel cancer linked to meat that I mentioned:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4088824.stm

zhao
12-07-2006, 06:12 PM
Pigs can play video games. (http://aginfo.psu.edu/Psa/fw97/eye.html)

yes, they can.

zhao
29-12-2006, 09:00 PM
Here's a recent thing from the BBC which explains the uncertainties in causes of bowel cancer linked to meat that I mentioned:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4088824.stm

is it me or is this article entirely about scientists being much more certain now than ever before about the link between red-meat and cancer?

bruno
30-12-2006, 07:22 AM
whatever happened to eating for pleasure? i'll have my bacon, thank you.

show me a study that measures the ratio of malaise to well-being resulting from eating bacon, i could volunteer to skew the results.

zhao
30-12-2006, 09:44 AM
whatever happened to eating for pleasure?=

I'm all for it. but you see, pleasure does not mean following your immediate, "fake" and "manufactured" desire and every momentary whim -- cheeseburgers at 4 AM all drunk and stoned. that is just vulger. not to mention destructive.

real culinary pleasure comes from eating consciously, and like all great pleasures that life has to offer, requires a bit of patience, a process of discovery, and discipline.

stuffing yourself with disgusting crap when ever you feel like it is NOT eating for pleasure -- it is addiction.

bruno
30-12-2006, 12:08 PM
I'm all for it. but you see, pleasure does not mean following your immediate, "fake" and "manufactured" desire and every momentary whim -- cheeseburgers at 4 AM all drunk and stoned. that is just vulger. not to mention destructive.

real culinary pleasure comes from eating consciously, and like all great pleasures that life has to offer, requires a bit of patience, a process of discovery, and discipline.

stuffing yourself with disgusting crap when ever you feel like it is NOT eating for pleasure -- it is addiction.

these are curious assumptions, zhao! it's funny how the word pleasure sends you reeling with grotesque images of mindless food-stuffing. i don't think anyone functions like that in real life but there you go, it's your vision.

zhao
30-12-2006, 06:26 PM
maybe my description is exaggerated, but I would say most people do function like this. raised with wrong eating habits, constantly bombarded by advertising from an early age, we are conditioned to eat in an unhealthy way, mistaking it for pleasure. most people everywhere are addicted to very, very unhealthy diets -- obscene over-consumption of cooked animal protein for one thing -- and it causes them no small amount of suffering.

in medical communities bowl problems including intestinal and colon cancer and a myriad of digestive disorders are being called the "silent epidemic", because people are getting sick in alarmingly large numbers due to nothing but increasingly unhealthy diets -- and no one wants to talk about it because it is ugly.

another sign of pervasive unhealthy diet -- just look at the rate of childhood obesity - also rising at an alarming rate.

I feel the same about this subject as many others -- that the "normal" way that society encourages, the way that everyone does it day in and day out, is very wrong. and that it takes an awakening, almost always as result of a close encounter with disaster, to realize this.

eating healthy is not about depriving oneself. it is about eating consciously - not emotionally, not addictive, mindlessly.

and similarly, eating for pleasure is not folowing whims or eating what you are conditioned to like.

___________________

I'm sure this will piss a great number of people off -- you "underground music" types can be just as closed-minded as the red-necks: "IT'S MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO HAVE MY MOTHER-FUCKIN STEAKS EVERY NIGHT DAMMIT! AND AIN'T NO NEW AGE HIPPIE FREAK GONNA TELL ME OTHERWISE!"

:eek:

Precious Cuts
02-01-2007, 12:16 PM
maybe my description is exaggerated, but I would say most people do function like this. raised with wrong eating habits, constantly bombarded by advertising from an early age, we are conditioned to eat in an unhealthy way, mistaking it for pleasure. most people everywhere are addicted to very, very unhealthy diets -- obscene over-consumption of cooked animal protein for one thing -- and it causes them no small amount of suffering.

in medical communities bowl problems including intestinal and colon cancer and a myriad of digestive disorders are being called the "silent epidemic", because people are getting sick in alarmingly large numbers due to nothing but increasingly unhealthy diets -- and no one wants to talk about it because it is ugly.

another sign of pervasive unhealthy diet -- just look at the rate of childhood obesity - also rising at an alarming rate.

I feel the same about this subject as many others -- that the "normal" way that society encourages, the way that everyone does it day in and day out, is very wrong. and that it takes an awakening, almost always as result of a close encounter with disaster, to realize this.

eating healthy is not about depriving oneself. it is about eating consciously - not emotionally, not addictive, mindlessly.

and similarly, eating for pleasure is not folowing whims or eating what you are conditioned to like.

___________________

I'm sure this will piss a great number of people off -- you "underground music" types can be just as closed-minded as the red-necks: "IT'S MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO HAVE MY MOTHER-FUCKIN STEAKS EVERY NIGHT DAMMIT! AND AIN'T NO NEW AGE HIPPIE FREAK GONNA TELL ME OTHERWISE!"

:eek:

umm it won't piss me off, but you're wrong, about protein anyway. There is nothing wrong with animal proteins in and of themselves. People should eat lots of fish. You simply can't have too much protein because whatever you don't use comes out the other end.

Protein is the one thing that almost everyone lacks in their diet these days. Eating animal protein in general should not be discouraged. You have to recognize that there are good sources (fish) and bad sources (bacon). There are other things that are much worse for your health, and are actualy over consumed by everyone: wheat, potatoes, oils and sugar. Men have eaten animals for many millenia. We have only been domesticating grains for the last few, and we have dramatically altered our eating habits from the "caveman diet" (one of the healthiest on earth, which athletes still try to emulate) to a farmers diet that is absurdly heavy in dairy, carbohydrates and sugars.

The problem is not protein, its a sedentary lifestyle combined with high-energy/low-protein foods -> high body fat/low muscle mass - > poor metabolism -> even higher body fat -> even worse metabolism... I think you are distorting the issues to prop up vegetarianism as a catch-all solution. This is misleading.. its much harder to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet than to maintain a healthy meat eating diet.

I had digestive problems for the last 3 years, and just found out that it is celiac disease. Of all the doctors I talked to none of them thought meat was an issue at all - and it wasn't. According to actual doctors, the increasing number bowel problems like IBS (the silent epidemic you speak of) etc. are linked to wheat more than anything else, specifically to foods made with highly processed white flour. If you go in with bowel problems, that is the first thing a doctor will recommend - no white bread, pizza crust etc. also, risks of bowel cancer are increased by any prolonged irritation of the bowels - not by meat or wheat itself. If anyone here is having stomach issues, try cutting wheat entirely out of your diet for a week or two. Chances are, that is the problem, not meat...

anways, here's Cam'ron's song putting it down for IBS awareness:

Lemme tell y'all a lil story about myself
This right here is a true story, check it out though

[Verse 1]
Ulcers hurt my salary, alter my personality
Give it to you real, I can't feed my culture no fallacy
You know my attitude, arrogant, cocky rude
Eatin off papi food, used to be a stocky dude
Weighed two-twenty, wit two honies, I move monie
It's true dummy, dunny need a new tummy
I become berserk, it was no fun to work
Everyday my stomach hurt, rippin off my undershirt
The pain was no comparison, stomach started cherishin
Throwin up in public, yo fuck it, it was embarrassin
Regurgitatin, green, yellow, burgundy, Boom
But came my urgency soon, (what) the emergency room (oh)
In there, no salvage, treated like a cold savage
They said pimpin symptoms, huh, a dope addicts
There you have it, but they ain't find no heroin
Coke, crack, dope, just weed, but that's my medicine

[Chorus]
My baby mama, mama, and my grandma
Say that I'm too gordy (too gordy), word to my blue maurys
This is a true story
I got stomach pain, don't matter sun or rain
Thought that it went away, uh oh, here it come again

[Verse 2]
Never mind stuntin, dime puffin, doc spent his time frontin
He like a bad detective, he ain't find nuttin
Besides that though, I can't enjoy a movie, dinner (why is that?)
My son growin up, I'm lookin like the movie thinner
I'm thinkin suicide, do or die, sit and cry (oh)
What hurt my baby moms askin if I'm gettin high (what the fuck you talkin about?)
She gonna play me a thug, I told the lady I love
If it ain't hustlin ma, please don't relate me to drugs (at all)
I'm loosin weight though, everyday pounds and muscles
Gotta get off my ass, hit some towns and hustle
Bein sick, huh, it get sickenin you know
I was too sick to do shows, but still equipped to move O's
You know my attitude, get it how I get it
If I can shoot, I turn around (then) I'm off my pivot
And oops, I thought I had it mapped
Weight started to gain again, it was just a game my friend
Dame mane I pained again

[Chorus]

[Verse 3]
Ay yo, god body, I'm hard bodied, word mommy, vanishin
Hadda go low, the male clinic, Minnesota
I couldn't get cake, a rock in a hard place
For me, that's a odd place, I'm only here by God's grace
Like a lab rat, them tests dishonor Cam
Ultrasound, MIR, CAT scan, sonogram
Laparoscopy, inoscopy, I be stressed (I be stressed)
The prognosis, diagnosed, IBS
And that's irritable bowel child, I hadda spit it y'all
Kick to y'all, so it ain't my fault if I shit on y'all
Get it, get it, get it, get it?

Precious Cuts
02-01-2007, 12:23 PM
I'm all for it. but you see, pleasure does not mean following your immediate, "fake" and "manufactured" desire and every momentary whim -- cheeseburgers at 4 AM all drunk and stoned. that is just vulger. not to mention destructive.

real culinary pleasure comes from eating consciously, and like all great pleasures that life has to offer, requires a bit of patience, a process of discovery, and discipline.

stuffing yourself with disgusting crap when ever you feel like it is NOT eating for pleasure -- it is addiction.

Foucault was an excellent chef. By all accounts he was a master of French cuisine and threw dinner parties that were legendary.

What was his favorite dish?

A club sandwich, fries and a Coca-Cola. probably enjoyed while drunk and stoned.

Quite frankly, alleging false consciousness in peoples enjoyment of food is ridiculous nonsense. It sounds like you have read way too much Adbusters.

zhao
02-01-2007, 05:31 PM
Foucault was an excellent chef.

so your logic is as follows: because Foucault was an amazing writer, historian, and philosopher, so he must be absolutely spot-on when it comes to health and nutrition, and we should model our diet after his eating habits? :eek:


The problem is not protein, its a sedentary lifestyle combined with high-energy/low-protein foods -> high body fat/low muscle mass - > poor metabolism -> even higher body fat -> even worse metabolism... I think you are distorting the issues to prop up vegetarianism as a catch-all solution. This is misleading.. its much harder to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet than to maintain a healthy meat eating diet.

thanks for the reply. lots of good points.

I actually said "cooked animal proteine", and not just "animal protein". cooked meat drastically increases carcenogen levels, and toxifies the body more than anything else -- and these toxins does not leave the body for a long time, and causes many problems.

I suppose the jokes about eating raw meat will follow --but what you may not know is that much like raw fish is professionally prepared, raw meat can as well. and it is the best source of protein. it is not common but many traditional cultures have raw beef and other meat dishes -- Armenian, Vietnamese, etc, etc.

but you are right that vegetarianism is not the catch all solution, (but in my estimation is predominantly, overwhelmingly beneficial).

and you are right about over consumption of carbohydrates -- and that pre-agricultural diet is much more healthy -- all major diseases such as cancer did not exist before we started farming -- but there are different view points as to what "caveman" diet consisted of exactly -- what I know and have read, may be contrary to some historians and doctors in mainstream medicine, leads me to believe that it was thousands of kinds of raw plants, and little meat -- and very little cooked meat.

Precious Cuts
03-01-2007, 02:05 AM
so your logic is as follows: because Foucault was an amazing writer, historian, and philosopher, so he must be absolutely spot-on when it comes to health and nutrition, and we should model our diet after his eating habits? :eek:

My logic was simply that Foucault a) knows how to enjoy fine food, b) obviously isn't brainwashed and c) still loves diner food. Therefore, you can enjoy diner food without being a victim of false consciousness. Whether or not it is healthy to do so is besides the point.




thanks for the reply. lots of good points.

I actually said "cooked animal proteine", and not just "animal protein". cooked meat drastically increases carcenogen levels, and toxifies the body more than anything else -- and these toxins does not leave the body for a long time, and causes many problems.

I suppose the jokes about eating raw meat will follow --but what you may not know is that much like raw fish is professionally prepared, raw meat can as well. and it is the best source of protein. it is not common but many traditional cultures have raw beef and other meat dishes -- Armenian, Vietnamese, etc, etc.

but you are right that vegetarianism is not the catch all solution, (but in my estimation is predominantly, overwhelmingly beneficial).

and you are right about over consumption of carbohydrates -- and that pre-agricultural diet is much more healthy -- all major diseases such as cancer did not exist before we started farming -- but there are different view points as to what "caveman" diet consisted of exactly -- what I know and have read, may be contrary to some historians and doctors in mainstream medicine, leads me to believe that it was thousands of kinds of raw plants, and little meat -- and very little cooked meat.

my bad I didn't notice the cooked qualification. I've had some really good lebanese raw kibbeh (ground lamb & beef w/ pine nuts & olive oil) before. It feels pretty good after eating. Kind of like sushi. I don't think I could eat raw meat all the time though.

zhao
04-01-2007, 12:01 AM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41208000/jpg/_41208332_glow203.jpg

martin
03-11-2007, 10:43 AM
I'm eating 7-8 rashers a day, every day, at the moment.

Yes, you can get cancer. Stop doing it.

To think Conflict were right about this all along....

noel emits
03-11-2007, 11:00 AM
Ned's last post on this site was in mid August.

martin
03-11-2007, 11:18 AM
Ned's last post on this site was in mid August.

Did you actually click on his profile and look that up, or were you there when he had to flee the country over the whole Maddie thing?

noel emits
03-11-2007, 11:27 AM
I clicked on his profile. Had no idea about the other thing. Don't do anything rash Ned.

I suppose the pigs get you one way or another.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 12:58 PM
umm it won't piss me off, but you're wrong, about protein anyway. There is nothing wrong with animal proteins in and of themselves. People should eat lots of fish. You simply can't have too much protein because whatever you don't use comes out the other end.


The agrarian lifestyle is so bad for humans. So so bad.

Poor Cam!! How can someone so beautiful on the outside be on so much pain on the inside? Weed and loperamide really are the only things that will help. IBS and IBD are rampant in America, because of all the refined carb eating.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 01:02 PM
so your logic is as follows: because Foucault was an amazing writer, historian, and philosopher, so he must be absolutely spot-on when it comes to health and nutrition, and we should model our diet after his eating habits? :eek:



thanks for the reply. lots of good points.

I actually said "cooked animal proteine", and not just "animal protein". cooked meat drastically increases carcenogen levels, and toxifies the body more than anything else -- and these toxins does not leave the body for a long time, and causes many problems.

I suppose the jokes about eating raw meat will follow --but what you may not know is that much like raw fish is professionally prepared, raw meat can as well. and it is the best source of protein. it is not common but many traditional cultures have raw beef and other meat dishes -- Armenian, Vietnamese, etc, etc.

but you are right that vegetarianism is not the catch all solution, (but in my estimation is predominantly, overwhelmingly beneficial).

and you are right about over consumption of carbohydrates -- and that pre-agricultural diet is much more healthy -- all major diseases such as cancer did not exist before we started farming -- but there are different view points as to what "caveman" diet consisted of exactly -- what I know and have read, may be contrary to some historians and doctors in mainstream medicine, leads me to believe that it was thousands of kinds of raw plants, and little meat -- and very little cooked meat.

No, Zhao, I think you may be getting some info from sources that have an "agenda" to push. Humans hunted for animals throughout history until the agrarian age. We have canine teeth and appendices. These are for chewing and digesting meat.

Ever seen Anthony Bourdain's show where he goes to Africa? They eat the WHOLE pig over there, cheeks, tongue, eyes, and all. Apparently it's delicious.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 01:08 PM
I'm sure this will piss a great number of people off -- you "underground music" types can be just as closed-minded as the red-necks: "IT'S MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO HAVE MY MOTHER-FUCKIN STEAKS EVERY NIGHT DAMMIT! AND AIN'T NO NEW AGE HIPPIE FREAK GONNA TELL ME OTHERWISE!"

:eek:

Zhao, I hate to say this, but you clearly have not studied anatomy and physiology, biochemistry, biology, anthropology, or any number of disciplines that fully debunk what you are saying about meat. No offense. But you're being really weirdly stubborn and calling people "rednecks" for understanding the Krebs cycle is pretty ridic.

noel emits
03-11-2007, 01:32 PM
We have canine teeth and appendices. These are for chewing and digesting meat.
Four canines out of a total of around 32 teeth. They're more for tearing, not chewing and digesting.

I don't think we need to eat meet at all but to be fair it's the quantity that's out of order. Large scale meet production is going a long way to destroy rainforests in Brazil and elsewhere and that's really not good for anyone's health. How can that be justified?

Also what do you thing the Appendix is for exactly? Isn't it generally reckoned to be a vestigial organ?

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 02:09 PM
Four canines out of a total of around 32 teeth. They're more for tearing, not chewing and digesting.

I don't think we need to eat meet at all but to be fair it's the quantity that's out of order. Large scale meet production is going a long way to destroy rainforests in Brazil and elsewhere and that's really not good for anyone's health. How can that be justified?

Also what do you thing the Appendix is for exactly? Isn't it generally reckoned to be a vestigial organ?

Well, to qualify what I've said, I would never deny that too much red meat (with too much fat content) does eventually cause atherosclerosis and other CV events if you don't exercise properly and often. Lean, white proteins are best, but there are amino acids and lipids in red meat that our entire bodies/brains evolved around eating. Even simple carbohydrates require breaking down in the liver into proteins and fats. This is extremely hard on your system. This is why people with hepatitis are not supposed to eat sugars and carbs.

The appendix is vestigial NOW, because we stopped eating a diet that consisted (pre-agrarian times) of fresh killed meat often rotten after days of lack of refrigeration.

Meat production, like various forms of production (including plant to chemical, veggie pattie, feed, many of our basic needs, etc.), are, indeed, bad for the planet. This is part of a much larger issue that needs to be addressed on largely economic and not dietary levels.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 02:15 PM
Also, "rednecks" are not necessarily "close-minded" as much as they are severely lacking in resources that would allow them to get sufficient education.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 02:18 PM
in the short term the carcenogens created by your stomach's inability to deal with all that cooked animal protean will give you lower energy levels, decreased ability to focus and concentrate, and probably a few unwanted pounds added to your physique.

in the long term you are looking at high blood pressure, clogged veins, heart problems, or, even if pork tends to stay and rot in your lower intestines slightly less than beef (years and years), there is always the increasingly, wildly, popular choice: prostate/colon cancer.

sorry to break it to ya. ain't nothin' you put in your body you don't pay for down the road. and the price just may be cancer of the butt.

what are you talking about, carcinogens from meat metabolism? this is simply not true. protein metabolism does NOT "create" carcinogens. there are carcinogens (in the form of radiation and such) in everything, even things that grow in the ground! they are everywhere in our environment (so are free radicals).

prostate cancer has NOTHING to do with meat consumption, either.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 02:25 PM
meat does not "rot" in your intestines, the acid in your stomach very neatly and easily begins to digest the protein BEFORE it even gets to the liver. it is MUCH EASIER on your organs than carbohydrates for this reason. it is much more efficiently metabolised.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 02:35 PM
you can also get cardiovascular disease if you eat a lot of red meat even if you live an otherwise healthy lifestyle. in fact i'd go as far to say that large amounts of red meat does not equal a healthy lifestyle full stop. theres nothing wrong with it in moderation though.

personally i don't feel very good if i eat red meat dishes for a couple of days running.

you can also get cardiovascular disease from stressing out too much and eating too much cheese and drinking too much alcohol.

if red meat is making you feel bad, it may be because you eat too many carbs. of course, some people's systems respond differently to different nutrients, but i wouldn't be surprised if you had insulin problems.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 05:34 PM
Alright then, got any evidence?

There's no consensus on exactly why red meat is linked with increased bowel cancer - one theory is that it's because of the production of heterocyclic amines, carcinogens that are produced in cooking. However, cooking white meat also produces these carcinogens, but white meat does not show a link with bowel cancer.

More generally, I think the "dangers" of red meat for health are masked by the presence of other negative factors - trans fatty acids, processed vegetable oils, salt and sugar. All of which are present in processed foods, and it's difficult to find large numbers of people who eat a lot of red meat but not processed meat

Precisely. Correlation does not prove causation--if they've been able to isolate red meat as a possible cause of colon/bowel cancer (IF they have, I have never read this in a medical journal but I will look it up), I am absolutely sure that the controls on the experiments weren't tight enough. Unless they fed the people diets of 100% whole, organic, unrefined, fiber filled diets with an excess of red meat, there is no way to say definitively that OTHER contributing factors are involved in the rise of colon/bowel cancer.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 05:35 PM
is it me or is this article entirely about scientists being much more certain now than ever before about the link between red-meat and cancer?

It's about PROCESSED red meat. I would love to see the numbers for this. Probably a lot lower than the cancer incidence from, say, the pill.

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 05:37 PM
maybe my description is exaggerated, but I would say most people do function like this. raised with wrong eating habits, constantly bombarded by advertising from an early age, we are conditioned to eat in an unhealthy way, mistaking it for pleasure. most people everywhere are addicted to very, very unhealthy diets -- obscene over-consumption of cooked animal protein for one thing -- and it causes them no small amount of suffering.

another sign of pervasive unhealthy diet -- just look at the rate of childhood obesity - also rising at an alarming rate.


The rise in obesity is linked to a sharp increase of daily calorie intake, especially from processed and refined CARBOHYDRATES.

bruno
03-11-2007, 06:03 PM
Did you actually click on his profile and look that up, or were you there when he had to flee the country over the whole Maddie thing?
haha

zhao
03-11-2007, 08:31 PM
i'll give you that the fact that meat or red meat is processed, trans-fatty acidic, etc., and i'll add to that cooked, account for probably the majority or all of the harms with eating meat. (and the excessive amount with which we do it)

i've always said that an organic raw steak every 2 weeks is the healthiest thing for a human body.

raw goat's blood, that the tribe in africa survives on, is like the elixir of the gods -- that's pretty much all they intake, and they are some of the healthiest people on earth. (they make a tiny incision behind the hoof, and take amounts of blood not close to affecting the the goat -- in exchange for protection and care, presumably)

nomadologist
03-11-2007, 08:37 PM
the only thing that happens to meat when it cooks is certain bacteria die. it's really the diets of excess in general that most people eat that is the problem.

blood is a very, very, very good source of nutrients.

zhao
03-11-2007, 09:17 PM
the only thing that happens to meat when it cooks is certain bacteria die.

um... no. one of the many other things that happen is 90% of the nutrition is zapped. and it also makes it exponentially more difficult to digest. but we are going round and round aren't we... agree to disagree? some friends wanna take me to a steak-house next week, I'll think nice thoughts of you while pulling the gristle from my teeth :)

EDIT: creepy paralel with the fighting thread :eek:

gek-opel
03-11-2007, 09:22 PM
Im down with the Zhao on this one. I need to get me a goat and drain that fuckers hoof every so often...

nomadologist
04-11-2007, 12:18 AM
um... no. one of the many other things that happen is 90% of the nutrition is zapped. and it also makes it exponentially more difficult to digest. but we are going round and round aren't we... agree to disagree? some friends wanna take me to a steak-house next week, I'll think nice thoughts of you while pulling the gristle from my teeth :)

EDIT: creepy paralel with the fighting thread :eek:

Zhao, hun, this is not true. It's actually easier to digest cooked meat, because the high temperatures have killed bacteria, which gives people, among other things, diarrhea and indigestion.

90% of the nutrition is zapped from vegetables and fruit if you cook them. Proteins and amino acids stand up under fire.

If you drain the meat of blood and overcook it, you may lose some iron and trace minerals. But not "90%" of nutrients.

nomadologist
04-11-2007, 12:19 AM
Im down with the Zhao on this one. I need to get me a goat and drain that fuckers hoof every so often...

The gamey redolence of warm, thick goat's blood gets me every time.

zhao
04-11-2007, 02:25 AM
Re: cooked meat

sigh... I will now respectfully withdraw from the debate.


The gamey redolence of warm, thick goat's blood gets me every time.

don't knock it till you try it. people who hear about eating raw fish for the first time think it's unbelievable and disgusting too.

nomadologist
04-11-2007, 02:33 AM
Re: cooked meat

sigh... I will now respectfully withdraw from the debate.



don't knock it till you try it. people who hear about eating raw fish for the first time think it's unbelievable and disgusting too.

Sorry darlin I totally understand your ire about how Americans and a lot of other people don't eat well--annoying as shit that people don't at least try. I was a vegetarian for 8 years, so I understand the aesthetic objection to meat. I really do.

I would never knock eating blood, I love steak tartar.

nomadologist
04-11-2007, 02:41 AM
or "tartare" if you're not a sleep-deprived aphasia sufferer

hundredmillionlifetimes
04-11-2007, 03:08 AM
Sorry darlin I totally understand your ire about how Americans and a lot of other people don't eat well--annoying as shit that people don't at least try. I was a vegetarian for 8 years, so I understand the aesthetic objection to meat. I really do.

Aesthetic? I though, for the most part, it was purely ethical (though of course - the ethical having disappeared - increasingly rationalised on pseudo-medical grounds, "Not only is it fundamentally wrong, but it'll make you really ill and give you terminal cancer even if its not wrong, etc").


I would never knock eating blood, I love steak tartar.

Black pudding [fried-dripping in animal fat]?

Lichen
04-11-2007, 12:50 PM
I had dinner with a friend last night whose grandmother had just died aged 106. She was fit active and lived alone and independently until her final weeks.

Her staple diet for much of her life: fresh milk and raw meat!

She never ate either fruit or vegtables.

This proves nothing and everything.

Lichen
04-11-2007, 12:53 PM
"Steak tartar"

So called becuase Ghengis and his mongol hordes would tenderise raw meat beneath their saddles as they rode.


And BTW, Nomadologist, it's easily my favourite thing to eat, preferrably with very good french fries: cold raw meat, warm chip, yum



...though I don't like to crack an egg on mine....happily in most restaurants you can specify its preparation

noel emits
04-11-2007, 12:53 PM
haha
Haha what bruno? That I clicked on Ned's profile to see that he hadn't succumbed to the dangers of bacon, or haha at the amazing topical gag?

gek-opel
04-11-2007, 01:03 PM
Yeah I would probably eat warm animals blood. I fucking love black pudding and raw fish (separately obviously).

nomadologist
04-11-2007, 02:26 PM
Aesthetic? I though, for the most part, it was purely ethical (though of course - the ethical having disappeared - increasingly rationalised on pseudo-medical grounds, "Not only is it fundamentally wrong, but it'll make you really ill and give you terminal cancer even if its not wrong, etc").



Black pudding [fried-dripping in animal fat]?

When I was a vegetarian, it was for aesthetic reasons. I had just dissected a cadaver at Upstate Medical and I discovered that roast beef slices look an awful lot like human muscle tissue that's been soaked in phenol for 15 years. Took a while to get my meat stomach back.

Lard is amazing as well. The Puerto Rican/Dominican name for lard is the same one they use for heroin, actually--"manteca"...

nomadologist
04-11-2007, 02:29 PM
Yeah I would probably eat warm animals blood. I fucking love black pudding and raw fish (separately obviously).

Oddly enough, I don't like cooked fish at all, but I love sashimi and sushi. The only thing that used to make me feel better after taking serotonin-zapping anything was a five-course Japanese meal with saki bombs.

nomadologist
04-11-2007, 02:41 PM
...though I don't like to crack an egg on mine....happily in most restaurants you can specify its preparation

Word, I don't like sulfur on my raw meat either!!

zhao
04-11-2007, 04:00 PM
not even grilled trout almondine with garlic mashed potatoes? not even baked halibut with black bean sauce?! how can you not like Peruvian octopus and shrimp stew?!?

EDIT: talk about WORTH DYING FOR!

but yeah raw fish is the bomb. perfect breakfast for me is spanish mackerel sashimi with guiness :) hard to find a sushi place open at 10AM though! lazy fuckers

nomadologist
04-11-2007, 04:02 PM
hmm had rainbow trout cooked once and liked it--i suppose i just don't like salt water fish cooked.

greek octopus marinated in aged spices is soooo good. it's even better than fried calamari.

Lichen
04-11-2007, 04:43 PM
Scottish drovers used to let blood from their cows and mix it with oats: I think that was the birth of black pudding on these shores.

bruno
04-11-2007, 06:18 PM
Haha what bruno? That I clicked on Ned's profile to see that he hadn't succumbed to the dangers of bacon, or haha at the amazing topical gag?
the maddie comment made me laugh, you had nothing to do with it.

dHarry
05-11-2007, 05:09 PM
We have canine teeth and appendices. These are for chewing and digesting meat.


Also what do you thing the Appendix is for exactly? Isn't it generally reckoned to be a vestigial organ?
I just read about a recent medical study which hypothesised that the appendix was originally (and possibly still is): a kind of reservoir of intestinal flora that would help re-populate the large intestine, after a bout of dysentery or whatever had drained the gut not just of it's food/waste content but also its "friendly" bacteria etc.

nomadologist
05-11-2007, 06:13 PM
Huh, interesting.

I just had a BBQ burger in Syracuse that was 1/2 of beef plus 4 pieces of bacon, cheddar cheese, and spicy bbq sauce.

mmmm

zhao
05-11-2007, 06:25 PM
i had imitation duck (tofu/gluten) with noodles :)

Slothrop
06-11-2007, 09:26 PM
i had imitation duck (tofu/gluten) with noodles :)
As in mun cha'i ya? *drools* I've got a tin sat in the cupboard but I keep getting distracted and cooking curry instead.

As Orbital put it:
sei-sei sei-sei sei-sei sei-sei sei tan
seeeiiiii taaaan

noel emits
06-11-2007, 09:46 PM
Orbital, pff.

:p

version
20-03-2019, 12:17 AM
This is a good one.

yyaldrin
20-03-2019, 08:09 AM
i'm so curious if he/she's still eating that much bacon

HMGovt
20-03-2019, 08:57 AM
Smokey bacon = certain death at that level of consumption.

Otherwise you'll be fine until the heart attack or kidney failure gets you.

I've changed.

Mr. Tea
20-03-2019, 12:12 PM
I've changed.

I think heavy intake of processed (including cured) meats is correlated with an increased risk of intestinal cancers, but 'heavy' means daily or nearly daily consumption.

HMGovt
20-03-2019, 12:24 PM
I think heavy intake of processed (including cured) meats is correlated with an increased risk of intestinal cancers, but 'heavy' means daily or nearly daily consumption.

Studies confounded by uncontrolled factors - fatties wolfing down white bread, carbonated drinks and canola oil with their bacon-topped burgers.
You know the drill: correlation ≠ causation
There's a higher concentration of nitrites in saliva or salad leaves than cured meats.
Then there's that rat study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2527479/) "A bacon-based diet appears to protect against carcinogenesis, perhaps because bacon contains 5% NaCl and increased the rats’ water intake."

The case against delicious bacon is a load of unsmoked bollocks.