This is better than that (hiphop and beyond)

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Eric

Mr Moraigero
Recently on the hiphop breaking news thread Dart made a comment to the effect of: between artists A, B, and C, even without listening to any of the work of C, I can be confident that A and B are superior, just because they are BETTER than artists working in the style of C. I found this very interesting for various reasons (and also completely wrongheaded, but that aside). What does this MEAN exactly?

Actually I had an argument recently about whether there is bad music or not. Is any piece of music inherently bad or worthless? I couldn't really think of any in general though there are certainly many candidates. I personally don't care much for say REO Speedwagon but many people seem to (have), which suggests there must be something worthwhile there.

What do people think? What makes a piece of music or artist better than another? What are you looking for in *good* work?

And finally what's up with the Dart argument? Is it REALLY true that e.g. anything the Roots put out is inherently superior to anything Trae could ever possibly produce? Maybe Dart could amplify the reasons for this idea (well he already did but I couldnt make much sense of the argument---a list of artists doesn't constitute an explanation in my view ...) Or someone else? I havent really seen anyone here jumping on that particular bandwagon, but who knows.
 
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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
Uh....YES.

Based on personal preference....YES. A fan of Screw Music automatically knows that they will get more personal enjoyment out of a Lil' Keke, Trae, K Rino, Z Ro, or any Skrewed Up Click release than...let's say a Cormega, Tragedy Khadafi, CunningLynguists, Tame One, Ras Kass or Masta Killa CD. To them, THEY ARE BETTER. My point was that people that are from a nuetral area that didn't grow up with the inherent prejudices that come with when and where you were born in America would choose to pick artists that don't have much of a fanbase outside of the Southern or Western parts of the US over ones that you'd generally think would have a broader overseas appeal...I wouldn't expect to hear users on a mostly UK/Europen board to be into Mistah Fab, Andre Nickatina, Mac Dre, E 40, Trae, UGK, Keak Da Sneak, etc. since in America they haven't even broken out of their immediate region when groups like The Roots, Wu Tang Clan, Boot Camp Click, etc. tour overseas all the time.

Of course I PERSONALLY think these groups are better....what the hell does MY opinion matter against millions of consumers? LOL. I just inspired ANOTHER thread this week! I am hot right now!

http://community.allhiphop.com/showthread.php?t=295333
http://xxlmag.com/online/?p=4149

One.
 
S

SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
One thing I'd like to warn you about Eric, before you go further into the den of thorns of arguing about hiphop with PD, is that he is an MC. MC's are basically required to un-questioningly and un-bendingly defend their region, style, canonical works etc, to the death, in any verbal jousting match. You will never, ever, ever get the type of non-partisan response from him that you want to hear. He is a vehement East Coast True School soldier. Once you just accept that it gets much easier to listen and talk to him.

That said, since we're talking about Skrewed Up Click I'd like to mention I've been listening to the SLAB (Slow Loud And Banging) album and really enjoying it. It's deeply un-even and has several un-appetizing tracks on there but the good ones are really hitting it for me. Worth mentioning I am listening to the screwed and chopped version, which imho is basically the only way to hear this music, unless your in a club.

And just to fling a little dart back at you, I can say with total conviction that it is far better than anything the CunningLinguists ever put out. They are a great example of everything I hate about East Coast Wanna Be True School rap. No conviction, no guts, boring unoriginal beats and raps that try to sound hard while fastidiously avoiding ever saying anything hard at all. And what an unfortunate name, please don't tour Jamaica with that one guys.
 
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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
Yep

SIZZLE said:
One thing I'd like to warn you about Eric, before you go further into the den of thorns of arguing about hiphop with PD, is that he is an MC. MC's are basically required to un-questioningly and un-bendingly defend their region, style, canonical works etc, to the death, in any verbal jousting match. You will never, ever, ever get the type of non-partisan response from him that you want to hear. He is a vehement East Coast True School soldier. Once you just accept that it gets much easier to listen and talk to him.

That said, since we're talking about Skrewed Up Click I'd like to mention I've been listening to the SLAB (Slow Loud And Banging) album and really enjoying it. It's deeply un-even and has several un-appetizing tracks on there but the good ones are really hitting it for me. Worth mentioning I am listening to the screwed and chopped version, which imho is basically the only way to hear this music, unless your in a club.

And just to fling a little dart back at you, I can say with total conviction that it is far better than anything the CunningLinguists ever put out. They are a great example of everything I hate about East Coast Wanna Be True School rap. No conviction, no guts, boring unoriginal beats and raps that try to sound hard while fastidiously avoiding ever saying anything hard at all. And what an unfortunate name, please don't tour Jamaica with that one guys.
Click to expand...


This man speaks the truth^. One.
 
E

Eric

Mr Moraigero
Yeah. Fair enough. If *better* means *better to me* then I have no problem of course and the argument sounds more reasonable, though not necessarily any longer something anyone other than *me* should pay attention to ...

So the consensus then is that there isn't any way to say truthfully *this is better than that* in a way that applies to anyone but whoever says it. That seems fine. My beef w/ Dart's pronouncements goes away now.

In the interests of full disclosure (, SIZZLE,) I should note for the record that me being from Texas my facade of objectivity is just that. Though I don't have an automatic preference for Mike Jones over Ghostface because of it.
 
E

Eric

Mr Moraigero
oh yeah, the SLAB stuff is lovely indeed, at least what I've got of it. the other night I was listening to it on the way to the club and by the time I got there didnt even want to go in anymore. too slow.
 
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stelfox

Beast of Burden
Poisonous Dart said:
wouldn't expect to hear users on a mostly UK/Europen board to be into Mistah Fab, Andre Nickatina, Mac Dre, E 40, Trae, UGK, Keak Da Sneak, etc. since in America they haven't even broken out of their immediate region when groups like The Roots, Wu Tang Clan, Boot Camp Click, etc. tour overseas all the time.
Click to expand...


errr, i'm english and live in london.

i think you'll find hip-hop enthusiasts (of which admittedly there aren't so many, as opposed to those who merely take a passing interest) over here far more open-minded that their US counterparts precisely because regional bias does not come into the decisions they make about music.
 
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