spiral frog

mms

sometimes
universal music is planning to give away music for free on a website called 'spiral frog' in return for advertising revenue on the site, fyi internet advertising which had a 70% growth last year, and dropped off massivley on telly etc.

The music will be much more restricted and info will have to be handed over it will also not be itunes compatable, (who have 80% of the market.)
but it's a weird development after years of fighting isn't it?
im sure someone will come up with an itunes patch or something too, soon enough.

what if it fails, that would be interesting.
it's a third party site as well so its not as far as i know owned by universal, and they want other labels on board, i can see it being massively bureaucracy heavy too, it could collapse under the weight of that if the buisness model isn't totally spot on. i wonder if this means univeral will withdraw from itunes as well.

it's not great though is it, or is it inevitable and will the underground thrive in the way they have been over the last few years?
 

SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
I think it's an interesting change. It's acknowledging that everyone is sort of competing with free file sharing, I'll be watching closely, lets see if they can make it work.
 

Don Rosco

Well-known member
It's big, big news. Apple must be freaking out - with the rise of phones with decent memory capabilities, and legit, major label, free music, the days of ipods complete and utter dominance over portable music look like they might be numbered. What a shame ;)

Interestingly, there's almost no results in a straight google search for 'spiralfrog' or "spiral frog". I wonder who they are?


edit: Universal own Impulse. Excellent!!
 

mms

sometimes
edit: Universal own Impulse. Excellent!!

they're independent, absolutley dreadful name i think .



good chance there will be ads on tracks though...
so yr john coltrane mp3 might have an ad for mcains oven chips or something on it, radio style.
 

shudder

Well-known member
i'm sure the tracks you download will have some kind of nasty DRM, no? (for no good reason, since they're free, but still...)
 

Don Rosco

Well-known member
Oh, I doubt i'll be using it all that much, except maybe to get some impulse stuff I don't know. No doubt someone will come up with a way of converting them, or stripping the DRM or something.

It's more significant from a market point of view. If they can work out a way of giving it away, and still paying the artist, then we all win.
 
I don't get it. Would artists get paid a percentage of the advertising revenue dependent on the amount of downloads in any given month? Will they only be releasing back catalogues and still pursuing traditional modes of generating revenue? Will artists even qualify for a percentage of profit from advertising if their work is given away for free?
 

Ness Rowlah

Norwegian Wood
I fully expect this to be a big puff of nothing when it comes to it.

Big name artists will opt out (not that I care, U2 anyone?),
it will probably be infiltrated
with some sort of spyware (for tracking revenue and
record label data gathering), the site might be shitty and have we seen
anything official from Universal itself on this? Most of the
huha seems to come from spiralfrog?

Remember the "Highlander Rule" - "there can only be ONE"
(ie one Amazon, one eBay, one Google etc).

The more competition iTunes and Apple gets, the stronger
their position might become - big names like
eBay and Coca-Cola have failed before with music shops - we'll just have to
see how much of the catalogue will be available for free
and what sort of restrictions it will come with.
They are going to have some serious traffic to that website
to replace lost CD sales (if the whole business idea is
based on website advertising).

If it's free and legal MP3s with no restrictions I'm all for it though -
but count me in the skeptic camp until the site is launched ...
 
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mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
It's a logical response though, to the inability for bands to make any money. I know a signed band to *big* label who basically went in for the *soundtracks* and *theme tunes* route and managed to last for four CDs on a major label, far outlasting their chart etc worth.
I read Macdonalds did that promo thing where they would pay artists a degree of percentage for radio plays if their artists shouted out their *product*, it didn't work. It makes *sense* for the radio DJ to become paid advertisement voices, as all they're doing at the moment is shouting out their own product. There was that hip-hop *cultural* guy who got blacklisted whose express desire was to *seamlessly blend the world of rap music and advertising*.
What I don't understand is why all the *heads* who come on here don't get together and form a company that would give shout-outs to ethical advertisers, I'd happily give big shout outs to ethical companies. I kinda do already, but it'd be good to get paid as an artist like that. Would it?
 

qwerty south

no use for a witticism
Subject: SpiralFrog
From: "Bob Lefsetz" <bob@lefsetz.com> Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book


Ever see a western? With the posse in pursuit of the bad guys? What
does the brainiac ALWAYS say? LET'S CUT THEM OFF AT THE PASS!

Maybe record execs didn't watch enough TV, maybe they aren't aware of
this most basic concept. You don't succeed by convincing people to play
nice, to come back to where they once belonged, but by CORRALLING them
at some future point!

Rental, and make no mistake, SpiralFrog is rental, it's just that you
pay for it with your eyeballs/time as opposed to cash, has been proven
to be a failure. Napster's going out of business, and Rhapsody is a
niche product. So, why in HELL should I care, should ANYBODY GIVE A FUCK,
about a service that allows you to have the material on the MAN'S terms
when you can steal it all and own it with no questions asked? Isn't
the solution to monetize the stealing, by charging at the ISP level, as
opposed to capitalizing enterprises that nobody wants, trying to
convince people to be satisfied with LESS than they're already used to?

How Apple became the villain, I'll never know.

Hell, let's go back to the beginning. The Diamond Rio. The major
labels SUED to halt production. Thank god they lost, for if not there'd be
no iPod, never mind an iTunes Music Store.

And why was the iPod successful? BECAUSE OF EASE OF USE! Does
SpiralFrog sound easy to use to you? Forget the hypothetical interface,
you've got to plug in every month to keep your tunes? God, a kid can't
locate his house key, but he's going to play by SpiralFrog's RULES?

And then, Apple creates the aforementioned iTunes Music Store.
Providing the major labels with revenue and an avenue for future distribution
that allows them to mesmerize Wall Street and prevent their stocks from
crashing completely. And somehow, Apple is at fault? Apple creates
the market, but is a goat because it won't allow the labels to raise the
prices? Give me a break.

But the real story, which the labels won't admit, is that the iTunes
Music Store sales are de minimis to the ongoing theft. Never mind P2P,
but CD and hard drive swapping. But rather than address the stealing,
the record companies focus on Apple's near monopoly? Trying to break
that? Unbelievable.

And why does Apple have this monopoly? Because of the sheer ineptitude
of its competitors. Anybody can make an MP3 player, but people want
iPods, because they WORK better.

Let's ask Sony. Which had the name brand advantage. Connect and their
devices are a failure. Maybe because, at first, they only sold the
music in a proprietary format, THAT NOBODY ELSE USED!

I know that Microsoft pushes WMA. But if you think Microsoft always
wins, you've never heard of Google. WMA IS NOT the music standard.
Shit, do we have to watch the Betamax movie one more time? Sure, WMA
preceded Apple's AAC, but it's been ECLIPSED!

And, everybody savvy knows the real standard is MP3 anyway. And isn't
it funny that the labels want to punish Apple by throwing in with
MICROSOFT? Isn't that like punishing Righteous Babe by throwing in with
UNIVERSAL?

And should we be impressed with any digital moves made by Universal
anyway? These are the same guys who came up with Farm Club and PressPlay.
Literally the same guys, Doug Morris and Jimmy Iovine. Doug's a
sexagenarian song guy. Jimmy? He's an opportunist. Believing these guys
have the digital answer is akin to believing the guys who did the Mentos
movie are going to eclipse Paramount.

And really, if you're paying attention to digital, isn't Warner the
ONLY company taking any risk? (Even though their efforts have been
overhyped.)

But back to WMA. In case you didn't know, it's incompatible with
iPods. But it's worse, it's MAC-incompatible. How about all those schools
who signed up for Mac-incompatible music rental services? They're
dropping them like crazy. Because Macs are BIG on campus. And, as stated
earlier, people DON'T WANT TO RENT!

But it gets worse. Microsoft has stopped developing Windows Media for
the Mac. Prove it to yourself by trying to watch MTV's Overdrive on a
Mac. Can't be done. Because the idiots running the labels are afraid
of having their content stolen. So now a whole slice of the audience
can't sample your wares AT ALL?

And Macs may only have five percent of overall computer sales, but
amongst individuals, it's much higher. And these people are zealots. Who
do you think broke the iPod? Mac-users and early Windows adopters who
told everybody how fucking great they were. Who in the hell is going
to tell ANYBODY how fucking great SpiralFrog is?

But Apple's at fault here. Even though THEIR products are 100%
Windows-compatible. Make me puke.

Then there's the issue of the copy protection not working ANYWAY!

If copy protection was a good idea, Andy Lack would still have his job.
You don't grow a business by making sure fewer people can sample your
wares, but by ENCOURAGING sharing/word of mouth. Shit, the labels speak
the mantra of street teams, but they want the product locked up. The
key is to MONETIZE WHAT'S ALREADY HAPPENING, not to try and bring people
back to a past that never existed.

As for the WMA copy protection, it's been broken... Just read this:
http://www.macdailynews.com/index.p..._cracked_fairuse4wm_strips_windows_media_drm/.

God, it's like 2000 all over again. But instead of Napster clones,
we've got RIAA-endorsed music sites. Not only Napster and Rhapsody, but
the theoretically legal iMesh and Morpheus and KaZaA and... NOBODY
WANTS THIS SHIT! Because it doesn't deliver what the consumer wants.
Can't we start focusing on usability and consumer experience as opposed to
protecting copyrights using the old model? If this goes on much
longer, the value of recorded music will be zilch.

Yup, that's where we're headed. When the CD crashes rather imminently
and all anybody wants are files. If you think people are going to pay
a buck a track for copy-protected files, you're living in a fairyland
inhabited by the likes of Mitch Bainwol and Dan Glickman. The reason
Bush can keep getting away with saying we're winning in Iraq is because
most Americans are not there FIGHTING! But hundreds of millions of
people want music, and they're not going to fall for the RIAA doublespeak.

So, CDs will be dead, the iTunes Music Store will represent maybe ten
percent of acquisition, and the rest of music will be FREE! Is this the
future you want?

Then stop buying into the hype. Ignore ridiculous pronouncements of
well-endowed vaporware and get down in the pit with the proletariat.
Eighty million people have iPods, not because they're tied to the iTunes
Music Store, but because they work best. Most people fill their iPods
with music they've acquired anywhere BUT the iTunes Music Store. It's a
circle jerk to see the iTunes Music Store as the future of acquisition
and it's even more of a circle jerk to believe you can deliver less,
for INCOMPATIBLE DEVICES, and people will want these new services more.

A lot of unprotected music for a low price that you own permanently.
This is the only solution. To think otherwise is to be ignorant.


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mms

sometimes
Didn't the bottom drop out of internet advertising about 5 years ago?

no it's risen massivley and is more target orientated nowdays.

the bottom has dropped out of tv radio and mag advertising.

it all remains to be seen what will happen, like what will their best sellers u2 do, is it ethical in their eyes? i expect double standards and more controversey.

cds and vinyl still sell, you just have to put some care into it.
when i was a kid 80% of my music was tape to taped. i would have prefered to have the originals tho.
i won't be using it. i don't want adds on mp3s and i have an ipod, prefer cds and esp vinyl anyway.
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
Fuck Apple. Fuck iDop. And like Bob Dylan recently said, the music now is so shit, who would want to PAY for it?
 
I doubt if Bob Dylan would know where to find the good stuff and I certainly wouldn't pay for his stuff. Ok, maybe the infidels album because Sly and Robbie are on it but that's it. I still wouldn't sit through an ad to get it for free though.
 
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