American Pastoral

Lichen

Well-known member
I'm nearing the end of this and it's torn into me in a way no other book has before.


As a father and part of a family its frightening.


As someone who's always valued comfort and been non-confrontational its sobering


Generally it/s put the wind up me.


Anyone else have a similar or very different response?
 

martin

----
Would you recommend this? Never read it, I knew someone who raved about it, though I didn't really get on with them so well, so made a point (admittedly juvenile) of not reading it. I'm not sure if I'll like Roth's writing style, but am intrigued by your response to it.
 

Lichen

Well-known member
I would recommend it. Roth certainly has a style but it's not easily defined.

I tend to respond to powerful books in a very personal way; I'm not at all a critical reader.


In short: yes, yes, yes, read it, read it.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
just read brief review - one question: what is the moral and political tone of his treatment of the "act of protest" by the protagonist's daughter?
 

Lichen

Well-known member
It's an amoral, apolitical novel. What I take to be its big idea - human nature and especially sex, rides roughshod over society, civilisation, poilitcs, dogma - preculdes the author taking a moral or political position.


A caveat here: I'm a few pages from page from the end perhaps the morality and politics will be drawn into focus.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
human nature and especially sex, rides roughshod over society, civilisation, poilitcs, dogma

sounds dodgy in the worst pseudo-freudian way...

truly bothersome and deeply desturbing to me are claims of a set of unchanging, fundamental qualities various short sighted people have called "human nature".

if there is one thing I believe with absolutely conviction, it's the maleability of our species - we can get used to anything, and are capable of a full range of behavior from saintly to despicable.

sorry to ramble and rant... not sure if this is even appropriate to discussion of this book... just something that's been on my mind for years... need to put it down on me blog soon.
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
i read it a few months ago- liked it, but found it a bit long (short attention span!).

i think in a way the political point it's making is non-political, in the sense that it's about the failure of attempts to impose a rational order on to the world; about the failure of attempts to answer the question, 'how should we live with one another?'. that there's no answer to this question seems to be one of roth's themes in the book.

the swede thinks that there is a rational order to the world, but he's oblivious to the chaos- the riots, the strikes, his daugheter- that lie below the surface of his american pastoral/dream (or, at least, he's oblivious until it's way too late...). the scariest aspect of the book seems to be this: that we might just NEVER understand each other, and we might remain doomed to this chaos.
 

Lichen

Well-known member
And this is what worries Zhao: that by concluding that there are no answers, that chaos and disharmony prevail Roth is denying that human kind can ever/improve/evolve/learn to rub along.

But we should be reminded that this is a book about America so perhaps the theme is: America - its appetites, its history, its politics, its dream - precludes Americans from understanding one another.

So, Zhao, whilst you say: "if there is one thing I believe with absolutely conviction, it's the maleability of our species", do you have an equal belief in the maleability of America?.

I know I'm shifting position, but I didn't post about this book to assume one; rather to air some feelings and get perspective as at the time of starting the thread, I was pretty freaked by it.

I agree with Simon Silverdollar that "the scariest aspect of the book seems to be this: that we might just NEVER understand each other, and we might remain doomed to this chaos" and as a father (of a wilful 4 year old girl), find that fear amplified
 

jenks

thread death
I remember reading this and being really impressed with the first half in particular as you watch this fantastically well drawn character of The Swede being slowly destroyed by that which he loves most.

I think part of Roth's thrust is that dogma can colonise a person to such an extent that it becomes a kind of mania - an irrational response which can alienate someone from their friends/families. At the same time we are subject to the irrationalities of our emotions - lust, greed etc. Neither make 'sense' yet drive us to unexpected/unwanted places.

If you enjoyed this then the two that follow - I Married A Communist and The Human Stain will also appeal greatly. Also Carol Shields' final novel Unless deals with some of the same issues and will cause parents of daughters more sleepless nights!!!:eek:
 

Lichen

Well-known member
Yes. And Merry, his daughter, isn't the only character to be colonised by a dogma: The Swede believes too much in the American dream/pastoral, his father takes the work ethic to absurd degrees.

I'll certainly follow up your recommendation Jenks (though I foolishly 1/2 read Human Stain a few years ago).
 
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