North Korea- Children of the Secret State

It might indeed help if we could dispense with the patronising and accusatory colonialist gaze of Westerners (like the Discovery Channel garbage referred to above), and consider instead the West's historical collusion in the mass-slaughter of Koreans ...

ARTICLE BELOW by Brian Wilson (www.brianwillson.com.), a Vietnam veteran, long-time peace activist, and writer:

The demonization of North Korea by the United States government continues unrelentlessly. The wealthy oil and baseball man who claims to be president of the United States, used his first State of the Union address on January 29, 2002 to brand perennial enemy North Korea, along with former allies Iran and Iraq, as "the world’s most dangerous regimes" who now form a threatening "axis of evil."

Unbeknown to the public, because it was intended to have remained a secret (whoops!), was the fact that this claimed president presented a "Nuclear Posture Review" report to Congress only three weeks earlier, on January 8, which ordered the Pentagon to prepare contingency plans for use of nuclear weapons. The first designated targets for nuclear attack were his newly identified members of the "axis of evil," along with four other lucky nations as well – Syria, Libya, Russia, and China. That this is nothing short of a policy of ultimate terror remains unaddressed in the U.S. media.

That Koreans are deeply concerned is an understatement. However, they understand the context in which their "evil" is being portrayed, not an altogether new threat levelled at them.

Two of the interventions [by the US] in the Nineteenth Century were inflicted against Korea, the first in 1866. The second, larger one, in 1871, witnessed the landing of over 700 marines and sailors on Kanghwa beach on the west side of Korea seeking to establish the first phases of colonization. Destroying several forts while inflicting over 600 casualties on the defending Korean natives, the U.S. withdrew realizing that in order to assure hegemonic success, a much larger, permanent military presence would be necessary.

The North Korean people regularly remark about this U.S. invasion, even though most in South Korea do not know of it due to historic censorship. Most in the U.S. don’t know about it either, for similar reasons, even though in all of the Nineteenth Century, this was the largest U.S. military force to land on foreign soil outside of Mexico and Canada until the "Spanish American War" in 1898.

I believe it important for U.S. Americans to place themselves in the position of people living in targeted countries. That North Korea, a nation of 24 million people, i.e., one-twentieth the population of the U.S., many of them poor, a land slightly larger in area than the U.S. state of Pennsylvania, continues to be one of the most demonized nations and least understood, totally perplexes the Korean people. It is worthwhile to seek an understanding of their perspective.

I recently visited that nation and talked with a number of her citizens. I travelled 900 ground miles through six of North Korea's nine provinces, as well as spending time in Pyongyang, the capital, and several other cities. I talked with dozens of people from all walks of life. Though times have been hard for North Koreans, especially in the 1990s, they long ago proudly rebuilt all of their dozens of cities, thousands of villages, and hundreds of dykes and dams destroyed during the war.

U.S. interference into the sovereign life of Korea immediately upon the 1945 surrender of the hated Japanese, who had occupied the Korean Peninsula for forty years, is one of the major crimes of the Twentieth Century, from which the Korean people have never recovered. (SEE "United States Government War Crimes," Spring 2002 - issue # 1 of Global Outlook). From a North Korean’s perspective they

(1) have vigorously opposed the unlawful and egregious division of their country from day one to the present,

(2) were blamed for starting the "Korean War" which in fact had been a struggle between a minority of wealthy Koreans supporting continued colonization in collaboration with the U.S. and those majority Koreans who opposed it,

(3) proudly and courageously held the U.S. and its "crony U.N. allies" to a stalemate during the "War," and

(4) have been tragically and unfairly considered a hostile nation ever since. They have not forgotten the forty years of Japanese occupation that preceded the U.S. imposed division and subsequent occupation that continues in the South. They deeply yearn for reunification of their historically unified culture.

Everyone I talked with, dozens and dozens of folks, lost one if not many more family members during the war, especially from the continuous bombing, much of it incendiary and napalm, deliberately dropped on virtually every space in the country. "Every means of communication, every installation, factory, city, and village" was ordered bombed by General MacArthur in the fall of 1950. It never stopped until the day of the armistice on July 27, 1953. The pained memories of people are still obvious, and their anger at "America" is often expressed, though they were very welcoming and gracious to me. Ten million Korean families remain permanently separated from each other due to the military patrolled and fenced dividing line spanning 150 miles across the entire Peninsula.

Let us make it very clear here for western readers. North Korea was virtually totally destroyed during the "Korean War." U.S. General Douglas MacArthur's architect for the criminal air campaign was Strategic Air Command head General Curtis LeMay who had proudly conducted the earlier March 10 - August 15, 1945 continuous incendiary bombings of Japan that had destroyed 63 major cities and murdered a million citizens. (The deadly Atomic bombings actually killed far fewer people.)

Eight years later, after destroying North Korea's 78 cities and thousands of her villages, and killing countless numbers of her civilians, LeMay remarked, "Over a period of three years or so we killed off - what - twenty percent of the population."

6 It is now believed that the population north of the imposed 38th Parallel lost nearly a third its population of 8 - 9 million people during the 37-month long "hot" war, 1950 - 1953, perhaps an unprecedented percentage of mortality suffered by one nation due to the belligerance of another.

Virtually every person wanted to know what I thought of Bush's recent accusation of North Korea as part of an "axis of evil." Each of the three governments comprising Bush’s "axis of evil" of course immediately condemned the remarks, North Korea being no exception. I shared with them my own outrage and fears, and they seemed relieved to know that not all "Americans" are so cruel and bellicose. As with people in so many other nations with whom the U.S. has treated with hostility, they simply cannot understand why the U.S. is so obsessed with them.

Koreans were relieved to learn that a recent poll had indicated eighty percent of South Koreans were against the U.S. belligerant stance against their northern neighbors. The North Korean government described Bush as a "typical rogue and a kingpin of terrorism" as he was visiting the South in February, only three weeks after presenting his threatening State of the Union address.

7 It was also encouraging that the two Koreas resumed quiet diplomatic talks in March just as the U.S. and South Korea were once again conducting their regular, large-scale, joint military exercises so enraging to the North, and to an increasing number of people in the South among the growing reunification movement there.

8 In the English-language newspaper, The Pyongyang Times, (February 23, 2002) there were articles entitled "US Is Empire of the Devil," Korea Will Never Be a Threat to the US," and "Bush’s Remarks Stand Condemned." Quite frankly, all three of these articles relate a truth about the U.S. that would draw a consensus from many quarters around the world.​
 

budub

la di da
okay, a couple of things:
1) Did you watch the documentary?

2) How is North Korea's anti-American propaganda ["US is the empire of the devil"] any better than Bush's western propaganda that North Korea is part of an "axis of evil"?

"An eye for and eye will make the whole world blind"--Mahatma Gandhi

I'd also like to clarify something. I posted this documentary not because I want to "demonize" North Korea. Maybe you might not see it that way. Oh well. I wanted to share the video because it was an inside look at the country that allows in no foreign journalists, even to this day. It is a very secretive country and you have to wonder why. If one has nothing to hide, why hide then? This country not only hides from the world but basically hides the world from its country. No foreign media is allowed inside the country, no cell phones, no magazines, no internet. The two television stations are basically a constant display of propaganda about the beloved leader, and the only paper decorations allowed in the homes are pictures of the leader.

This is rare footage, and the stories of other journalists who have secretly visited the country in the past few years are strikingly similar.

I will agree with you that western propaganda is prevalent, that it is often patronising and accusatory. I will agree that it is necessary to see through the propaganda to a 'true' historical account of a country. However, to me, this film is not propaganda.

Ahn Chol is a North Korean man who hooked up with other former North Koreans to make a change, and to help those trying to seek refuge outside of the country. He risked his life by secretly taping footage of children in the streets, to show the world what is happening. Ahn Chol's footage is not that of a western man trying to spread western propaganda. It is footage from a man who experienced the starvation deaths of both of his parents in the country of his birth. The footage was a major contributor to the production of the film. The reporter that you see in the film is Joe Layburn of the Hardcash team, the company who produced the documentary. I am almost certain this was not a film made for Discovery, though it was presented on the Discovery channel in 2003. The purpose of my posting this video was to present one of the few videos of North Korea produced by an outside source. The people who contributed to this documentary want to put an end to what they see as violations of human rights.

The footage in this film could have taken place in any country, and I still would have posted it here. I am not condoning war against this country, nor am I saying that it is "evil". However I am posting the documentary because it contains rare footage of people that appear to need help. Many foreign aid groups have pulled out of the country because the aid is being diverted away from those most in need. You may see this as 'western' propaganda. Though that's fairly ironic considering that an equal amount or more propaganda is being fed to the North Koreans about the US.

I am sorry if you have a problem with the posting of this video. However I will keep it there because I believe others should be able to see it and decide for themselves.
 
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budub

la di da
Also, I can see why you want to include the current North Korea nuclear situation in your argument against US propaganda. However, the documentary above is dealing with human rights issues, not nuclear testing.

So while I [and other parts of the world] may or may not agree with your inclusion of the newspaper article entitled "Korea will never be a threat to the US", it is somewhat irrelevant when the premise of this thread is human rights violations.
 
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Also, I can see why you want to include the current North Korea nuclear situation in your argument against US propaganda. However, the documentary above is dealing with human rights issues, not nuclear testing.

On the contrary, it is precisely the timing of your posting, coinciding as it does with the imposition of UN sanctions against North Korea - so guaranteeing yet further hardship and starvation and "human rights" abuses - that is disingenuous. We all know about human rights abuses - in North Korea as much as anywhere else (especially including the countries voting for such sanctions); you raise the issue here at this juncture to justify the country's further demonisation as a precurser to violent - western - intervention ...

Or were you about to say that you OPPOSE such hypocritical sanctions (or are in favour of sanctions being similarly imposed on the eight other countries with nuclear arms, all of whom - US, Britain, Israel, Russia, France, China, Pakistan, India - routinely engage in human rights abuses)???
 

budub

la di da
On the contrary, it is precisely the timing of your posting, coinciding as it does with the imposition of UN sanctions against North Korea - so guaranteeing yet further hardship and starvation and "human rights" abuses - that is disingenuous. We all know about human rights abuses - in North Korea as much as anywhere else (especially including the countries voting for such sanctions); you raise the issue here at this juncture to justify the country's further demonisation as a precurser to violent - western - intervention ...

Or were you about to say that you OPPOSE such hypocritical sanctions (or are in favour of sanctions being similarly imposed on the eight other countries with nuclear arms, all of whom - US, Britain, Israel, Russia, France, China, Pakistan, India - routinely engage in human rights abuses)???

whoa slow your roll just a bit there cowboy.

I knew just a little about North Korea until recently. I had not done the majority of my own research into the country or its human rights violations until a few days ago, when I happened upon this video randomly [yes, randomly]. No, I was not searching for evidence to plot a timely and "disingenuous" thread. I understand why you would like to think so, though I've found that those who project malicious intent upon others are often possessing this intent themselves. It's always a good precaution to be careful in making assumptions regarding the intent of others.

I raised the issue here because I happened upon a video documenting human rights violations. A video that disturbed me. Is it wrong for me to post this video for others to see and decide for themselves? Like I said, I would have posted the video had it been any other country. It is an assumption of yours that I am posting this video to "justify the country's further demonisation as a precurser to violent - western - intervention". You are assuming that I am in favor of violence, though I quoted a man favouring non-violent protest in a previous post. Your assumptions are not helping anyone.

I am not trying to be in favor or oppose any nuclear sanctions. I don't believe I've stated an opinion regarding nuclear testing at all in fact, for any of the aforementioned countries. Nor have I stated an opinion on the UN sanctions.

I am simply posting a video to promote discussion about how to solve these problems that are obviously occurring in the country of this documentary. Maybe you've come across these issues before. Maybe you've already had discussions with others regarding human rights violations in various countries. Good for you. However, I am just now learning more about these violations, and it is disturbing to me. Does the fact that I am just now coming across these documentaries and information make it wrong for me to desire discussion? Does it make it wrong for me to post, albeit risking the possibility I might offend your sensitivity to the timing of the thread?

Chill out bud. I posted a documentary to promote discussion about human rights because I have recently started to learn more and desire discussion. If you have a problem with what you see as violent western intervention, maybe you should choose a more appropriate target than someone only looking to help.
 
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budub

la di da
Anyhow, back to the subject of helping. I was searching for aid organizations that might still be working in North Korea.

What I've found thus far:
http://www.helpinghandskorea.org/howtohelp.htm
http://nkhumanrights.or.kr/
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/10/10/nkorea14381.htm [an article depicting even more ghastly food supply shortage looming ahead, and the need for continued aid despite nuclear testing/sanctions]
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=70&release=297 [Freedom House article discussing the need for human rights on the agenda]
http://www.nkfreedomhouse.org/
http://www.amnesty.org/

I'll be sure to post other noteworthy videos of human rights violations as soon as I come across them, since you have expressed such a grave concern for the human rights of people in all countries hundredmillionlifetimes.
 
Rhetoric of Human Rights

" ... in their exclusive focus on the prevention of suffering, the doctrine of human rights evacuates politics and retreats back to the terrain of good and evil. By denying the political subjectivity of its victims, the enforcement of human rights through military and political intervention only serves to preserve those victims as victims, and prepare the way for continued violations of human rights."


whoa slow your roll just a bit there cowboy.

Well thank you very much, Texan. And I'll be sure to steer clear of all them injuns too ...

Your self-obsessed web of non-sequiturs, unexamined assumptions, contradictory declarations, and teenage rhetoric is indeed reassuringly quaint, and no personal offence was intended, as you might have surmised if you had assimilated the post before gushing forth with such self-righteously defensive indignation.

I knew just a little about North Korea until recently. I had not done the majority of my own research into the country or its human rights violations until a few days ago, when I happened upon this video randomly [yes, randomly].

You randomly happened upon the "majority of your research"? Now I wonder what might have been the media basis for such a happenstance coincidence "a few days ago" (Again, your intentions are not being taken to task here, but the wider contemporary geopolitical context that served to provoke your recent research interest).

I am not trying to be in favor or oppose any nuclear sanctions. I don't believe I've stated an opinion regarding nuclear testing at all in fact, for any of the aforementioned countries. Nor have I stated an opinion on the UN sanctions.

What are you attempting to avoid stating here? That you don't actually have any opinion about human rights violations? Or that you fail to see any connection?

A video that disturbed me ... and it is disturbing to me ... Chill out bud ... only looking to help.

Chill out? Given your feelings of disturbance, shouldn't you be taking your own advice? Of course its disturbing (its not like any reasonable person would find it titillating, is it, the pornography of violent imagery notwithstanding?), the daily news is disturbing, but you should always be careful to take into account what interests are actually being served by depoliticised, sanctimonious pleas of "only looking to help."
 
Noam Chomsky last Monday justified nuclear tests by North Korea as "an act of survival" while also defending Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez' foreign policy .

""North Korea faces the threat of the nuclear weapons the United States has in the region and, therefore, it needs to defend itself," Chomsky told reporters in the Chilean town of Temuco, Efe reported."

In other news, North Korea now on war footing:

The U.N. sanctions against North Korea for its nuclear test are a declaration of war, and the country will ``deal merciless blows" if the nation's sovereignty is violated, the North's central government said Tuesday in its first response to the U.N. measures.

While, Pyongyang Vows Merciless Measures:

North Korea yesterday rejected the U.N. Security Council resolution imposing nonmilitary sanctions on the communist state for its nuclear test and vowed to take appropriate countermeasures.

As US Reviews War Plan on N. Korea:

According to the report, the United States is considering a plan against North Korea to neutralize Pyongyang's nuclear capability with overwhelming use of the U.S. Air Force.

Nukes: Iran and North Korea are not the problem :

Thanks to the nuclear aspirations of North Korea and Iran, there's no shortage of rhetoric along these lines: "We can't let rogue nations have nukes. They might use them." Absent from the discussion are two elementary questions.

30 more countries could have nukes soon:

The head of the U.N. nuclear agency warned Monday that as many as 30 countries could soon have technology that would let them produce atomic weapons "in a very short time," joining the nine states known or suspected to have such arms.
 

budub

la di da
Haven't read anything in this thread but here are some photos from a recent trip to North Korea:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82755

and for those who understand Russian here's the original with better descriptions:
http://www.tema.ru/travel/choson-1/


thanks for sharing. i caught these on another forum a few months ago and was amazed as much then as i am now. mostly because i find this secrecy both captivating and alarming, as i'm sure do others. interesting discussion on the military photos forum. that site actually came up in some of the research for the documentary that is posted above.
 

bruno

est malade
you're confusing communism with fascism, mr craner. totalitarianism is a better word, i think.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Apart from trying to goad Paddy out of his new identity, you think so? Think I'm really that dumb?

I'm interested in the Il-Sung/Jong-Il "blood line" theories. Like, how far does that go? What does it mean? Why do they hate the South Koreans so much? (Because they betray Korean Blood, that's why!) And the big ideological beef with Japanese nationalism (not a dormant shoot, actually)?

North Korean ideology is not simply Communist or totalitarian; there's some strange, sinister stuff going on there.

Maybe it's not that important, I don't know. The ex-Jewish Sufi Stephen Schwartz wrote a gripping and informed piece about North Korea's ideology in The Spectator a few weeks ago, which I find interesting because he sees Iran's nuclear programme as being less threating than Nork's. And because he's been such an admirable foe of Wahhabi-Saudi dissembling (a pact supported by catastrophic US indulgence, which Shwartz has followed with international allies from the Middle East to Bradford to the Balkans, and in unprecedented and unmatched detail) (yet slacks off on Khoemini and his children because he respects their "academic" Shia mysticism).

So I'm confused, ah oui, but not that confused. Hey, did anyone see the Nork '80 Years of Anti-Imperialism' rally in Pyongyang last week? That was a show. Hands up who enjoyed that!
 

donthatenkkids

New member
Don't Waste Your Time on "HundredMillionLifetimes"

Please, budub and others, don't waste your time and tears on hundredmillionlifetimes. I used to, but people like him/her cannot be changed. All that will occur is you will become emotionally drained.

It's difficult for us caring, rational beings to fathom, but there will always be those amongst us in the world that are infatuated with infanticide, those who take heart at genocide, and those driven to sheer orgasmic joy at famine, democide, and the greatest levels of human suffering.

Thankfully, these creatures are in the minority. But they are not as rare as you might think. Usually they are bound together and find affirmation and rationalization of their hate in others of the same ideology. Usually it is the adherence to extremist ideology such as communism, fascism, Stalinism, or militarism that unites them. It is not possible for the rest of us to understand why one could believe a particular ideology (let alone one that has killed as many as 250 million people in the 20th century alone) is worth such continued death and depravity. Don't even try. Just know that they do. Don't bother engaging them. There are some that are on the cusp of comprehending a half-way decent moral worldview. Those who make comments such as those written by hundredmillionlifetimes and who defend muderers of millions of innocents and hundreds of thousands of indisputably innocent small children are not on that cusp and never will be. It is a waste of time. Observe them. Watch them. Contain them if necessary before they can take pleasure in killing. But to try to change them, to argue with them from a standpoint of either reason or morality is to engage in an exercise of pure futility. They believe in their ideology as if it were a religion and the hold it has on their mind and its consequent ability to reason morally will never, ever be released. I've seen this before.

That evil of the scale perpetrated by the Kim Family Regime exists is depressing enough for us near-powerless individuals. To wrap your mind around the fact that people like the poster hundredmillionlifetimes, while adult humans, have entirely defunct moral reasoning capacities and are incapable of expressing not even the slightest bit of empathy for their fellow man is just asking too much of the decent lot of humanity that does indeed have a heart.

Instead, ignore him. Put his hatred for North Korean children out of your mind. Devote not a thought to it. Channel your energies and emotions instead into productive thought about how your love and respect for the dignity and worth of all individuals can help these children who so desperately need it.
 
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bruno

est malade
Apart from trying to goad Paddy out of his new identity, you think so? Think I'm really that dumb?
i don't know, you tell me!

i love the spectator but stephen schwartz, for fucks sake, you can't pay attention to this man. i don't have access to the whole article but the first few lines are nonsense, this fantasy of nk selling iran the bomb so they can nuke israel, utter rubbish. the boris johnson piece, on the other hand, is ace.

i feel this debate is completely false, echoing iraq, in that it should be about american presence in the region and what china wants from its neighbours rather than the non-threat nk poses to the world (and it doesen't, even with their pathetic missiles).

why not drop the sanctions and have and all-out commercial exchange with them without meddling in their politics? it worked with china! their elites wil get their luxury goods with or without sanctions. their people are likely to starve a bit less without sanctions. kim jong il will die at some point. let free markets free north korea!

yeah i saw the anti-imerialism day rallies. like several nüremberg rallies in one but with wilder choreography, just amazing.
 
Interesting strawman, interesting construction of a fantasy Other you've presented there, newbie. Your sentiments sound just like those of the child-abducting Madonna, only they are much more disturbing in their justification of biofascism ...
 
Dear fellow:

We thank you for your Heroic defense of our Great Nation in our struggle against Imperialism.

We wish you prosperity and happiness, expressing the belief that International friendship with Korea will be strengthened and developed by efforts such as yours.

Please see your Private Message for token of our appreciation.

Regards,
Leader Kim Jong-Il
General Secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea
Chairman of the DPRK National Defence Commission

Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)
 
Dear fellow:

We thank you for your Heroic defense of our Great Nation in our struggle against Imperialism.

Intriguing IP address, also revealing your obscene underside, taking pleasure in masquerading as a dictator. Unsurprising, as you fully support another:

Paying The Price: Killing The Children Of Iraq

A documentary film by John Pilger

Sanctions enforced by the UN on Iraq since the Gulf War have killed more people than the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan in 1945, including over half a million children - many of whom weren't even born when the Gulf War began.

Bush Signs the Reichstag Fire Decree:

With a flip of the wrist, Bush signed into law the anti-Habeas Corpus, pro-torture law (cleverly repackaged as the Military Commissions Act of 2006), signaling with it the end of American democracy.
 
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