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View Full Version : It took the night to believe (post election US)



polystyle desu
08-11-2006, 07:12 PM
Well, woke up to a damn new fine wet morning over here.
The citizens had gone out and voted yeah, they 'got on with it' ...
For those who do not believe that anything will change/has changed ,
well again I say let's see what happens for example ,
with Nancy Pelosi as hd of the house etc. (first woman in)
Power to investigate Bush ? Check .

Bye bye baby Hastert (x Speaker of the House)
the shine's off the *hit

And before I get labeled a 'wet liberal' for cheering Nancy ,
I'll say as I have said some threads years ago - S
orry but most people voting over here do have their own minds ,
are not stamped Blue or Red.

It's been 6 years under Bush's dopes ,
lots of people killed , familes screwed , BS sold right down the line
Gonna take some time to recover and hopefully get thing on some realistic track
Cheers all who voted

* Hold the press: Did I really see news item saying Repugs say 'Rumsfeld will resign ' ?

MATT MAson
08-11-2006, 07:21 PM
Cosigned.

Can't believe Rummy quit already, if the Dems take the Senate too, people will be throwing the 'I' word about very soon...

This is just the beginning of Bush's two year long wet slap.

Viva Obama!

polystyle desu
08-11-2006, 08:06 PM
Ol' Rummy tossed so quickly ... but what a relief it was.
Sure, prolly replaced by x CIA Gates but ya know ,
Bush's people pool is well, looking pretty deleted.

In the usual twisted Doublespeak the press release plays
'We waited to replace Rumsfeld until after the elections so it doesn't appear to be politically motivated'

Just saw the Hillary Vs Guiliani poll with Hillary wining handily

But yeah, Matt - viva Obama - next Prez I'd say

swears
08-11-2006, 08:13 PM
Good luck to 'em, just don't get your hopes up.

polystyle desu
08-11-2006, 08:34 PM
Sorry to have to go the opposite direction from the Swearsian world wise view
but we do plan to keep our 'hope' as the attempt to fix broken Gov. gets underway.
Sure there are 2 more years of Bush , but we just might enjoy at least trying to get it right.

Yer on a roll son

noel emits
08-11-2006, 09:27 PM
It sounds like really good news (from the point of view of this UK based observer), at least as good as can be hoped for so far.

So the Democrats have control of the lower house right?

And the Senate still hangs in the balance as I write - possibly pending a recount in Virginia (this sounds familiar...), but quite likely going to the Ds as well.

What are the practical implications, beyond the obvious show of no confidence in the Rs?

noel emits
08-11-2006, 09:48 PM
New Gov. of Massachusetts is the son of the Arkestra's Pat Patrick! Is this true?

tate
08-11-2006, 10:01 PM
New Gov. of Massachusetts is the son of the Arkestra's Pat Patrick! Is this true?
It is. http://www.weeklydig.com/news_opinions/articles/devals_cosmic_roots

MATT MAson
08-11-2006, 10:55 PM
The practical implications are many and varied. But it starts with a ton of subpoenas going out, and everything from Iraq to Katrina to Haliburton contracts getting investigated.

What with such so much secrecy over the last decade, a lot of skeletons are bound to start coming out of a lot of closets. I think it's going to be an interesting couple of years.

I thought this story was interesting - http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1928928,00.html

what the hell is he going to do out there?

hundredmillionlifetimes
08-11-2006, 11:00 PM
Yes, Deval Patrick is now the first African-American elected governor of the state of Massachusetts, and only the second in United States history. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deval_Patrick)

polystyle desu
09-11-2006, 12:17 AM
During the course of the media nonstop today ,
some implications did come out , esp. from next Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.
* passing the minimum wage raise
(numbers I heard from the current $5 plus per hour to $8)
* moving the country towards energy self sufficiency (possibly funded in part by nixing the Oil & Gas Co's subsidies)
dealing with Immigration , Health Care and of course, how to close out the
'giving the gift of democracy to Iraq' disaster.

Not so sure impeaching the Bush leaguer himself is really going to be in the cards ,
tho' that would be sweet to roll his head too .
Maybe rolling Rummy's was attempt to save his own.
The Dem's believe that too much acrimony will turn off the voters for 2008 , so there is a limit to what they will do (tho' legally they can call for it)

Republican pundit commented that if Rummy had been canned a month ago ,
they would have held on to some more seats in the House.
Also in the wind is that the move was planned for months , but ideally would have been happened 'in a few months'.
Bush had just backed Rummy to the press saying he was doing a 'Fantastic job'
so we hope he goes on a jag of saying the same thing about Cheney,
then ... lop ...

nomos
09-11-2006, 01:17 AM
... and they got the senate!

http://www.deeptime.net/files/dissensus/lameduck.jpg

robin
09-11-2006, 11:23 AM
Cosigned.

Can't believe Rummy quit already, if the Dems take the Senate too, people will be throwing the 'I' word about very soon...

This is just the beginning of Bush's two year long wet slap.

Viva Obama!

what is the "I" word?

swears
09-11-2006, 11:53 AM
what is the "I" word?

Impeachment? Although they may avoid this, as it may cause ill-feeling with potential conservative democrat voters, apparently.

polystyle desu
09-11-2006, 01:39 PM
Yes, 'I' for Impeachment'.
The US people (and the world in gen of course) have put up with so much BushS that it's just not the time to keep going back and blaming - got to move forward while there is at least some feeling of possibility of movement.
Some of the conservatives feel they got burned/used by Bush and Rove's manipulations and 'politics of fear' and this time they sat up and said 'Not a second time ...'
Those *hits kept up the 'fear' and media outlets like Fox TV built it up to where they have divided the country into only Republicans and 'Liberals' became a curse word.
Some feeling that we got past that now ...

One reason we /I am going to be sensitive to glib generalizations about just who we are over here. !

Guybrush
09-11-2006, 02:58 PM
Also in the wind is that the move was planned for months , but ideally would have been happened 'in a few months'.
Here's what David Ignatius writes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/08/AR2006110802084.html) about that:


Oddly enough, it was the generals who helped keep Rumsfeld in his job. The White House had decided in the spring that it was time to make a change at the Pentagon, and officials were steeling themselves to break the news to Rumsfeld when the "generals' revolt" erupted on newspaper op-ed pages, with former officers lining up to denounce their ex-boss. The White House decided it couldn't appear to bow to pressure and retreated.

Freakaholic
09-11-2006, 06:57 PM
A couple thoughts....

1) Rumsfeld: Didnt the president say, mere days before his resignation that they would stick with him throughout the next 2 years?

2) Dems in control: Please dont get me wrong, Im as happy as anyone about the Republicans losing control of Congress, but remember they are the lesser of two evils. To me, its just a different set of special interest groups that one. And, for the most part, many of the Dems that took control had to advertise themselves as moderate or conservative democrats just for the chance to upset the Reps.

This, to me, is further proof that the 2 party system slowly sliding to the middle, a one-party-with-two-names system (remember, the Dems and Reps were once one party, in opposition to the Federalists).

3) Obama in 08: As much as I hate politics, and the 2 parties, for some reason i too am caught up in the tide of gushing support for this man. Comgin from Chicago, Ive watched his rise to fame, and cant find too many reasons not to like him. Someone even told me that theres a possilbity of an Obama/Clinton (Bill) ticket.... i doubt it. not even an Obama/Hillary ticket....

4)Impeachment: I agree that this is far fetched. The convservative and moderate Dems will lose much of their support if they go around calling for impeachment, especially when most of them had pro-war standpoints a the beginning. Theyll be too worried about their own re-elections to call for that.


All in all, though, it IS a good sign..... but, 90% of Americans are still believe what they see on Fox news..

MATT MAson
09-11-2006, 08:50 PM
I agree that impeachment seems far-fetched now, but if skeletons begin falling out of Bush and Co's closets, if corruption, Katrina and Iraq are investigated, and the Dems are calling for all of this, I think people will feel differently.

The feeling that we need consensus between Reps and the Dems will last a while, and I think that's a good thing. But depending on what comes out when/if the many veils of secrecy Bush imposed are lifted by Congress and the Senate, which Fox will report on along with everyone else, impeachment could gain support from both sides too.

Maybe this is wildly optimistic, but Rummy went within hours, and it was just announced John Bolton is leaving the UN. That's two douche-bags down in two days! No one has even assumed power yet.

The Democrats are certainly just the lesser of two evils, but Pelosi is also calling for reforms with regard to the access lobbyists have to politicians. If K Street had less power, either kind of evil, red or blue, would be less evil as a result.

The Republicans can no longer frame debates, and I see a shift to the left as a very real possibility here in the next year. Bush may not end up in hiding in Paraguay, but the future is bright...

Rambler
10-11-2006, 01:32 PM
(Speaking as a Brit)

I'm not sure impeachment, or two years of revenge inquiries from the Dems are the way forward. Yes, these things are important, and Bush needs to be exorcised in some way, but now just seems the wrong time to do it - it could easily grind legislation to a halt and a Democrat caucus seeming more keen to exact retribution than actually run things will only play into Rep hands in 2008. Surely the tactics right now should be to give Bush enough rope, force him into increasing isolation (which he's happy to play along with already it seems, with the heads rolling nicely in Washington), and restore credibility for a big Presidential win in 08. THEN start the trials.

My question for American posters - would subpoening ex-President Bush bring enough satisfaction to make the wait, and a stronger bid for the Whitehouse, worth it? This is what I'd like to see, but I'm curious as to the feeling over there.

polystyle desu
10-11-2006, 01:53 PM
Impeachment would probably take too much energy away from correcting the country's course - and as said earlier , turn off a good percentage of voters who are hungry to actually see change.

Probably like many , I got a lot of good laughs and feel vented watching the footage of yesterday's Bush -Pelosi meeting , the silly Repub photo op (with Cheney nestling in behind Bush to where it looked like master Cheney was talking through Bush dummy) and his uncomfortable body and stiff verbals during the press conf.
Sure , I'd like to see his head or Cheney's roll ,
but having them be 'lame ducks' twisted in their own ill winds for their remaining 2 years
just may be fitting .
One can already see the Bush reluctance to change/ get off his message/ admit anything wrong just behind his lipservice re: 'working together with the Democrats'

The idea of going after them after the '08 elections is interesting - and possible too

Looks like Bolton @ UN may go too ? , let's keep 'em rolling right out the door

polystyle desu
15-11-2006, 02:48 PM
Cheney is trying to get the Valerie Plame lawsuit dismissed -
don't let 'em do it !

Now Bush has gone -has had to go - from wishing he could 'do Dad one better' in Iraq
on his neocon own to having his Dad's advisor's try to straighten the mess he made.
Well, better James Baker's advice then Cheney's .
Jeezy ...

MATT MAson
18-11-2006, 01:52 PM
Rumor has it Rove will be out next...

polystyle desu
21-11-2006, 02:37 AM
One hears that Cheney still has some neocon life in him yet,
and he is pushing for war on Iran.

Another case where you wish the ones who do the pushing had to go and fight themselves ...