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hundredmillionlifetimes
17-11-2006, 11:45 AM
This isn't a trick question, but - in the light of the debate about racism in the Borat film - what is the racist status of the following satirical portrayal (self-reflexively in the style of Punch magazine, perhaps?) of Robert Mugabe? An offensively racist stereotype or a needed and legitimate critique of a brutal dictator?

===============

Cheney: Well, folks, we've succeeded in keeping all those
Chomsky-Sticknecks of lefty riff-raff out of our meeting today, thanks
to my boys' little manoeuvres. And can I just say Bob - you don't
mind me calling you Bob, do you, Dr Robert? - I'm really over the moon
now that you've changed your commie ways and got yourself re-elected,
just like our own President managed to pull off, without mussing too
many hairs. Did you receive delivery of those rickety B-52s just yet,
the ones with a MacDonalds outlet next to the bomb-bay doors?

Mugabe: Natcherly, Bucky. And natcherly you all bin wonderin' where I
bin dis past week, everyone rushin' out to git de infymous Guardian
gangplonk of June Fourteen an' flickin' through de pages, ain't
nothin' but de usual run of ole cobblers, Where all de Peace Corpse
got to and so on? No doubt consid'able nummers o' wot' I used to call
imperialist trash takin' dis as a sign dat President Mugabe got de
dipplematic skids under him an' de victim of a coo, an' waitin' fo' a
new man to appear down de Zimbabwe Diner an' tellin' de foreign press
conference "Yassum, we got rid o' dat uppity nigger, hush mah mouf,
jus' put yo' boot on dis step, bwana, I givin' de best shine east o'
de Congo," only dat ain't de way it is. Anyway, as I bin pointin' out
in de press, de whole obberjeck of de currint exercise wit da nucler
threat on de Arabs is on account of we needin' to pull in de famous
foreign currency wot turnin' out to be in pretty short supply now we
kickin' de foreigners and de farmers and de sand niggers out. So wot
we got to do is kick 'em back in for a bit. But we need a hiddin'
story, caus' everyone want somethin' for nothin', these days.

Cheney: Boy! oh boy!! You talk just like one of my own boys back at
Burpleson, Bob! Let's wheel in Dr StraightLace. He'll show ya' all
the really good moves.

Dr StraightLace: Vot vee must virst do is create three
alligator-roaries deep down beneath da surface of zee story-mass
geological strata dat vill be sufficient vor de survival of at least
one hundred sixty symbols per alligator of za nuu verld orderr, mein
ubermensch, and for za procreation purposes to be properly fulfilled
for ziss elite in za nuu verld orderr, vee shall require za machines
and ze tools with zee much needed sexual symbolism vor our
story-gratification purposes. Vor dees purpuse, vee haff chosen your
Dark Continent as an appropriate cover for da zerface story, Bob. Zo
we now need all za paperwork from you, Bob.

Mugabe: Wid that mean some Peace Corpse comin' down here like dat Bono
bloke from U2 an' interferin' wid de smoothe runnin' o' de Dark
Continent, an' it don't mean dey ain't Jews, neither, can't let a load
o' Jews slip through the net jus' on account o' they got de American
Passport an' de billins in American foreign aid to deal wid' them
Arafat supporters, you think de famous Adolf Hitler wot already bin
pubberlickly admired by me woulda got to de top if he botherin' about
readin' every bit o' paper story wot landin' on his desk? Sit aroun'
readin' six million passports, before you know it de oven gone out, de
Second Front openin' an' you never gittin' around to de final
solution. All de top SS men, you spendin' a fortune on de trainin' an'
de flash uniforms etcetera, all standin' aroun' Auschwitz an' Dachau
an' so on lookin' at de watches an' wonderin' why no-one turnin' up,
ain't no way to run the neu worl' order. Gimme de Gaddafi or de Saddam
or de Sharon technique, they comin' out with de famous Kalachnikov 9mm
machine gun in de brown carrier bag an' they showin' everyone how you
blow de head off at five hundred yards, dat de sort o' foreign story
and foreign aid we lookin' for. Where de planet gonna be, everyone
sittin' roun' on de bum an' lookin' at de artesian wells, all it get
you is a load o' long grass. Ain't no use havin' long grass unless you
gonna creep through it wid a view to puttin' in de bayonet. How else
you gonna rule de worl'?

Cheney: Oh boy!! You sure know how to pull out all the angles, Bob,
but shouldn't we just wait until all the facts are in?

Dr StraightLace: Vie didn't you tell us all ziss before, Bob?

Mugabe: I was too busy gettin' some of de well-known dark continent
pinko dissent, load o' left-wing judges still in de pay o' de Kremlin
an' bringin' de buggers up from de cells an' gittin' de black maria
roun' de front wid de engine runnin'. But wot' I now want to know is,
wot' Bush done wid de billins and billins of crispy dollars he puttin'
into de military spendin'? All we still gittin' here is a lotta
Harvard rubbish in de granny glasses wid de hair on de shoulders goin'
round shovin' test tubes in our cows an' knockin' 'em up. Ain't no way
to build a empire ...

the undisputed truth
18-11-2006, 05:32 AM
thats some crass lil black sambo shit right thurrr...

the undisputed truth
19-11-2006, 07:30 AM
Is this racist ???

My wife is a n*gger

Let me start by saying straight out that I love my wife and would do almost anything for her. She's beautiful, sexy, thoughtful and a great cook and I would love to have her be the mother of my children, but for her one major failing - she's a n*gger.
Obviously I knew this before we got married, but being blinded by love I hoped we could get beyond that one day, more fool me. When I think of what way our kids might turn out with a n*gger for a mother, I squirm.
A couple of my friends are going out with n*ggers and they've both admitted that at times it can be very hard to deal with and that it's an issue which could lead to a break-up.
Let's face it guys, we look for the hot chicks - blondes, brunettes, redheads, curvy, slim, tall, short, it's all good - but nobody really wants to end up with a n*gger, do they?
Can anyone offer me any advice apart from getting shot of her and looking for a woman more my type? As I said, she's an absolutely adorable woman, and I would gladly spend the rest of my life in bliss with her - if she'd just stop n*gging!

I got banned form a forum and labelled a racist for that. My point was to highlight the ignorance and projection of racism of those who wish to see what isn't neccessarily evident.

What is laughable though is that I am more of a polynesian cultural supremacist than anything with a dislike of the elitism and bigotry perpetrated on my peoples by colonial oppressors.

Guybrush
19-11-2006, 10:54 AM
Is this racist ???

My wife is a n*gger

Let me start by saying straight out that I love my wife and would do almost anything for her. She's beautiful, sexy, thoughtful and a great cook and I would love to have her be the mother of my children, but for her one major failing - she's a n*gger.
Obviously I knew this before we got married, but being blinded by love I hoped we could get beyond that one day, more fool me. When I think of what way our kids might turn out with a n*gger for a mother, I squirm.
A couple of my friends are going out with n*ggers and they've both admitted that at times it can be very hard to deal with and that it's an issue which could lead to a break-up.
Let's face it guys, we look for the hot chicks - blondes, brunettes, redheads, curvy, slim, tall, short, it's all good - but nobody really wants to end up with a n*gger, do they?
Can anyone offer me any advice apart from getting shot of her and looking for a woman more my type? As I said, she's an absolutely adorable woman, and I would gladly spend the rest of my life in bliss with her - if she'd just stop n*gging!

Sorry, I don't get that one. Are you telling me there's some underlying unveiling moral of that story? 'Cause all I see is tasteless racist spouting.

the undisputed truth
19-11-2006, 07:10 PM
I should add that i didn't write it just copied it off another forum. I'd say it was more sexist than racist.

nomadologist
19-11-2006, 11:58 PM
oy gevalt! what is the point of this supposed to be? it is not satire, that's for sure. sounds like inflammatory language.

nomadologist
20-11-2006, 12:10 AM
oh I get it. She's a "nagger." It's not sexist, it's just dumb.

the undisputed truth
20-11-2006, 12:23 AM
don't you feel silly for projecting your racist views and righteous anger on a silly joke though???

...anyway after a few pages of getting slagged as an inflammatory racist on the other forum my IP got banned and still is

boomnoise
20-11-2006, 12:27 AM
and will remain so.

nomadologist
20-11-2006, 12:30 AM
don't you feel silly for projecting your racist views and righteous anger on a silly joke though???

...anyway after a few pages of getting slagged as an inflammatory racist on the other forum my IP got banned and still is

Not really. In context, it did seem to be predicated on a word that white people should realize is wildly offensive. Using the asterisk to replace the a was misleading in such a way that anyone would reasonably assume you were using an expletive and didn't mean "nagger."

the undisputed truth
20-11-2006, 12:40 AM
hahaha boomnoise...I think I'm gonna give you something to moderate now

Thats the thing though isn't it Nomadologist. White people are more offended and embarrassed by the word than black people are as if they need to defend black people from percieved racism. In itself that is a patronising form of racism.

The point is no one really wants to look at themselves, their motives or intent too closely it is just easier to fly off on some kneejerk reaction and shoot the messenger.

nomadologist
20-11-2006, 12:49 AM
Hmmm. I see your point, and maybe you're right. I'm never going to say that I couldn't be a racist--I'm just as socially constructed as the next guy. I am going to say that it's more important that we all acknowledge the part we play in racism before we can start trying to overcome it.

the undisputed truth
20-11-2006, 01:02 AM
I'd say it's just a word and in as much as we spoke it into existence we can speak it out again. The sooner we realise it's not about race (given that there is no such thing beyond human) but culture, purism and elitism the sooner racism will be shown to not exist.

I think the problem is that particularly on line and in places like these we assume everyone to be white, middle, class brits until proven otherwise and then our perception is coloured by what we know of that persons culture and a reluctance to deal with said persons outside of ones own cultural comfort zone.

No one wants to be labelled a racist and in defending yourself it merely adds fuel to the fire. The soft option then would be to remove the said racist regardless and placate the mob but even then nothing has changed and nothing was solved...eh boomnoise ???:slanted:

nomadologist
20-11-2006, 01:17 AM
I'd say it's just a word and in as much as we spoke it into existence we can speak it out again. The sooner we realise it's not about race (given that there is no such thing beyond human) but culture, purism and elitism the sooner racism will be shown to not exist.

Right, this is where science is important again, and this is an argument I've heard made by evolutionary biologist types: Calling people "racist" is another way of affirming the notion of "race" (which is not scientifically valid, but a social construction like "gender") and the superstition and hysteria upon which the notion predicates itself. If there is no such thing as race, it is more important to address a general lack of education than it is to address a bogeyman like "racism."

Also, I agree with you about condescension of white people trying to protect minorities sensitive ears from inflamed language. In the U.S. the attitude is kinda different because we all came here at different stages, and most of our ancestors were considered the bottom of the heap at one point or another. I'm Calabrese on my mother's side. Her father came here and shined shoes in Brooklyn until they got into the family business. It doesn't hurt my feelings to be called a "wop." We all make fun of our own Italianess and passed down cultural particularities. When my brother dressed up for a wedding while ago, he asked "this isn't too much of a guid-suit, is it?" If you saw what he was wearing, you would've laughed, too. The Sopranos doesn't offend me, either. Guido, Guinea, wop, these were all derogatory at one time. Now we've reclaimed them so we can laugh at ourselves. An important survival mechanism.

the undisputed truth
20-11-2006, 01:37 AM
I'm all for educating the ignorant but some are just too stupid to realise they're ignorant. Borat being a classic case.

nomadologist
20-11-2006, 01:40 AM
I don't think it has to be that way. Ignorant people area ignorant because they don't have resources. We need better policy so we can give them resources that will allow them to learn. We all deserve a chance. Some of us wouldn't take it and use it to our advantage, but still...

the undisputed truth
20-11-2006, 01:46 AM
you can lead a horse to water but...

...fundy christians for instance have untold resources but are still largely ignorant on a whle range of stuff

surely you're not equating poor with ignorant and stupid ???

nomadologist
20-11-2006, 01:54 AM
no no. the thing is, ignorance is not about stupidity. some of the most educated people are stupid. all ignorant people, however, suffer from a lack of education that has nothing to do with class aside from the way U.S. policies make no provisions for those who have no resources and therefore deny access to education to people without resources and thus refuse to help them leave ignorance behind.** which would be working toward a common good.


now, maybe some people would be stupid even after they stopped being ignorant through education. but i have hope for humanity and think it's worth a try.

addendum* The neocons, who have all the money, do not actually sympathize with fundamentalist Christians on matters of social policy for religious reasons. They used the ignorance of many people brought up in communities run by Christians (evangelicals, fundamentalists, Catholics, whoever) to call stem cell research "pro-abortion" embryo killing (while at the same time claiming it was ok to kill embryos in the course of fertility treatments) so they didn't have to spend money funding it, coined the "axis of evil" so they could use a faulty business model to wage a war they could never begin to fight against a spectral enemy, and to galvanize the right by pretending to care about social conservatism as much as they did fiscal conservatism just to get in office, where they proceeded to completely alienate their voter base. Which is why I told people not to vote for Kerry at the time--why would we want to take the blame for Bush's mess. Let him reap his due reward for his lies, then we'll go in and clean up.

nomadologist
20-11-2006, 01:56 AM
unfortunately, the biggest pockets of fundamentalist Christians happen to be in nearly impoverished rural environments throughout the U.S. (not geographically limited to the South, or any single state.)

hundredmillionlifetimes
21-11-2006, 05:57 PM
I got banned from a forum and labelled a racist for that. My point was to highlight the ignorance and projection of racism of those who wish to see what isn't necessarily evident.


Were you banned before or after the Borat film was released?

Because Borat does much the same: ""You mean the man who shoved a rubber hand up my anus in the shower is a HOMOSEXUAL!"

And everyone laughs, delighted to be publicly reminded of how a derogatory stereotype is defined.

"You mean the black chap who's polishing my shoes is a NIGGER!"
"You mean the badly sunburned white farm labourer who just sold me this apple for ten cents is a REDNECK!"

tate
21-11-2006, 07:03 PM
unfortunately, the biggest pockets of fundamentalist Christians happen to be in nearly impoverished rural environments throughout the U.S. (not geographically limited to the South, or any single state.)
Out of curiosity, how much time have you spent in "impoverished rural environments throughout the U.S."?

nomadologist
21-11-2006, 07:19 PM
grew up in St. Lawrence County, NY. so 18 years.

from wikipedia:

The median income for a household in the county was $32,356, and the median income for a family was $38,510. Males had a median income of $33,135 versus $22,253 for females. The per capita income for the county was $15,728. About 12.30% of families and 16.90% of the population were below the poverty line, including 21.30% of those under age 18 and 10.30% of those age 65 or over.

the undisputed truth
21-11-2006, 07:49 PM
Were you banned before or after the Borat film was released?

And everyone laughs, delighted to be publicly reminded of how a derogatory stereotype is defined.



way before...

...don't you think the public needs reminding ???

Mr. Tea
16-01-2007, 01:24 PM
don't you feel silly for projecting your racist views and righteous anger on a silly joke though???

...anyway after a few pages of getting slagged as an inflammatory racist on the other forum my IP got banned and still is

Don't be thick. The word 'nagger' has never been viewed as offensive to the point of being partly censored, whereas 'nigger' obviously has. To post that, get flamed for it and then say "Actually, it makes YOU the racist! HA!" makes YOU the shit-stirring smart-arse.