PDA

View Full Version : Children and the Universal Unconscious



Woebot
30-11-2006, 10:20 AM
I've always cherished that introduction to Jung's "Man and his Symbols" because it's a layman's, plain-talking exposition of his thoughts. Some people have a problem with that kind of thing, I have absolutely no idea why. I have read thicker stuff by him- including the entire book on Psychology and Alchemy- though I cant remember anything about it.

Anyway Jung takes this example of a 10-year old girls dreams which seemed completely devoid of personal associations and yet which he traces to to the Apokatastasis and cosmogonic myth, archetypes the girl would have no way of knowing about. Apparently, tragically, she died of an infectious disease shotly afterwards.

Anyway it amuses me to hear my two-year old son coming out with some quite strange remarks. Recently we asked him what he was going to give his mummy for Christmas and he replied blankly "an apple". Such a symbolically pregnant idea! I don't suppose I have to rake over it in detail in present company. He's also taken to shouting the number "seven", often followed by "important". Obviously he associates numbers with seriousness and knowledge, but why pick "seven"?

Kind of like an alternative dad's thread really.....

DJ PIMP
07-12-2006, 08:31 PM
Ooh great post!

In Taoism children are venerated for their simplicity and clarity. The idea is to find that child-like connection with the world where you see everything so well, but with the mind of an adult. As a kid I remember seeing people very clearly, reacting to the intent, body language and tone of voice more than anything said. As adults we live in a more ordered and abstracted world - I think thats how we lose the ability to intuit as well as children.

Looking back at some of the serialised dreams I had as a kid freaks me out. There was an unconscious understanding that was far beyond my years. My niece is 9 and comes out with such insightful stuff and is completely fearless! I growled at her probably unnecessarily (she was testing my patience) and she called me Grumpy Bear... such a gentle sense of humour.

Regarding 7... its a prime number (I love primes) and the sum of 3 and 4, which are both great numbers. 3 being the sum of 1 and 2, (mono + dual = trinity), 4 being even, ordered and divisible by 2. The rub between 3 and 4 is a biggy...

More on 7 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven#In_religion

If you're interested in numbers and Jung, track down a copy of 'On divination and synchronicity' by Marie-Louise von Franz. I'm led to believe by Jung-fanatic acquaintances that she was the best writer of Jungs students. The book covers a bunch of stuff, number myths, numbers as symbols used in divination, the I Ching etc. Maybe a wee bit flakey in places but tons of good stuff too.

swears
07-12-2006, 08:58 PM
I was obsessed with clocks as a toddler. I would repeatedly shout "clock" until a relative took one down from the wall for me to look at. Dunno what significance that has.

gek-opel
07-12-2006, 09:09 PM
I was obsessed with clocks as a toddler. I would repeatedly shout "clock" until a relative took one down from the wall for me to look at. Dunno what significance that has.

My first word wasn't "mummy" or "daddy", but "tractor". Make of that what you will.

DJ PIMP
07-12-2006, 09:20 PM
Clocks and tractors huh? It was confusing for a while but this forum starts to make more and more sense to me.

We are who we are.

Guybrush
07-12-2006, 10:19 PM
In Taoism children are venerated for their simplicity and clarity. The idea is to find that child-like connection with the world where you see everything so well, but with the mind of an adult. As a kid I remember seeing people very clearly, reacting to the intent, body language and tone of voice more than anything said. As adults we live in a more ordered and abstracted world - I think thats how we lose the ability to intuit as well as children.One problem, the way I see it, with perceiving the world as a child "but with the mind of an adult" is that the two are already conflated in a way. The "adult mind", to me, is the world seen as child but with all information deemed useless/superfluous/misleading filtered away; as soon as the "adult mind" starts cultivating your raw perceptions useful information (subconscious "hints" that the brain cannot systematize, etc.) inevitably is erased.

DJ PIMP
07-12-2006, 10:55 PM
Thats the art I think... keeping the best bits of both intact.

It cuts both ways. Adults remove the extraneous distractions of childhood (and in losing a degree of spontaneity make it up in maturity and balance), but filter everything through ordered sets of perception and knowledge that have been built up through experience and learning, which limits the connection to the present.

So the Taoists talk about unlearning. Theres that saying 'in seeking knowledge learn something each day, in seeking the tao forget something each day'.

Its to do with the concept of finding your original face or self. Of course theres more than one way through the ego...

Anyhow, kids!

Guybrush
07-12-2006, 11:20 PM
'in seeking knowledge learn something each day, in seeking the tao forget something each day'
That's a beautiful saying.

the undisputed truth
08-12-2006, 09:15 AM
Shit happened when I was 13 which fixed my outlook on most things...

...my biggest desire since has always been to be normal

maybe one day when I grow up i will be...

...but I'm not holding my breath

craner
08-12-2006, 09:42 AM
My first word was 'Safeways'. Make of that what you will.

Woebot
08-12-2006, 10:39 AM
My first word was 'Safeways'. Make of that what you will.

nice work craner.

magic pendulum
08-12-2006, 10:57 AM
my first word besides mummy and daddy
was 'concorde'

I think we went to see the test flight at Bristol Airport or something

swears
08-12-2006, 12:12 PM
I had a lot of weird ideas about numbers as a kid. I'd often associate them with colours and they seemed to have, for want of a better word "personality". Two would be green and sensible for instance, whereas four would be red and jolly.

No, it doesn't make any sense to me either.

matt b
08-12-2006, 02:17 PM
I had a lot of weird ideas about numbers as a kid. I'd often associate them with colours and they seemed to have, for want of a better word "personality". Two would be green and sensible for instance, whereas four would be red and jolly.

No, it doesn't make any sense to me either.

synaesthesia.

craner
08-12-2006, 02:19 PM
I wonder what Kate Mossad's first word was.

jenks
08-12-2006, 05:35 PM
My boys are obsessed by infinity (they're six and seven but this has been going on for about 18 months).
Eventually the youngest one came out with: 'But James, infinity isn't a number, it's a word' which i just loved!