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luka
12-01-2005, 11:50 PM
All I want from life is to make money. it's not much to ask. it's very difficult though. i've got a few (5) GCSEs but not much more. i don't have any skills or any talents or any interests or ambitions outside of making money. i don't have experience of much, just a few crappy jobs, like labouring, security and working in starbucks. does any one have any suggestions for making money from that starting point? i'd consider anything. i might look into driving tube trains.

also, how do you make your money? how did you get into it?

life is rubbish without money. money brings happiness and freedom, it's that simple.

sufi
13-01-2005, 12:40 AM
filthy luka :D

ome
13-01-2005, 12:45 AM
'dirty cash'

craner
13-01-2005, 12:58 AM
sex =

originaldrum
13-01-2005, 03:51 AM
"all i wanna do is make dough and enjoy it, hilton, dorchesta, and savoy it"

Mc Silva - Unorthodox fam.......

Penfold
13-01-2005, 01:19 PM
get yaself on big brother, luka!

Rachel Verinder
13-01-2005, 01:41 PM
first of all you should definitely see about getting heronbone published in book form. there's certainly a market (or a market can be created) for it. email me offboard and i'll give you the contact details for my publishers. if a useless nincompoop like me can get a book deal then so can you!

hard to say re. career, but tube train driving certainly pays well and it keeps you physically occupied but with enough mental space to keep you happy at the same time. you don't want a job that's going to exhaust you mentally as well as physically.

me? i made (and make) money out of a career which has its ongoing, inbuilt problems but i'm glad i held on to it, because going into full-time freelance writing is a starvation-inviting dud unless your surname is coren or something. plus you'd be spending 90% of your time hustling and pitching instead of actually writing or creating anything. people like stelfox are ok with it but i personally wouldn't recommend it.

nick.K
13-01-2005, 02:08 PM
I'd hold back on making money for a couple of years and go to university, use the resources: dark rooms, film equipment, libraries, lectures, computers, grants, and take of the student magazine. You can work on the writing at the same time.

Backjob
13-01-2005, 03:18 PM
I'd say learn a trade. It's what I wish I'd done. Be a plumber. You can hold down 6 figures doing it, for only a couple years training, and you can be your own boss. You get paid for a task, not for your time, which is much better. And you're not exchanging your ideas or your creativity or your mental effort for money, all of which suck ass. Plus there are never enough plumbers and people will only call you when they're desperate, so you can be as obnoxious as you want and they just have to take it, otherwise they'll have to dig a hole in the back garden and shit in that. Also you'll know about something that 99% of people know fuck all about, but that everybody needs. That's the kind of knowledge that is power.

Me, I'm in advertising, because I couldn't think of anything better to do. It's good in that it pays decent and I get to see a lot of interesting places and learn about the stuff that the people there like to pay money for (Philipinos like hamburgers, they really really like them. Thais don't like foreplay.). But I hate the fact that it involves having interesting ideas and then giving them to someone else. You end up with no energy to do your own shit.

I was going to train as a carpenter, but I can't quite cope with the idea of giving up wearing gucci and diamonds and going to some horrible tech college for years in order to do so.

I don't personally hold any truck with that starving artist garbage. If you can't make a living off it, do it in your spare time. Once somebody wants to pay you well for it, then you quit the day job. Otherwise you either end up leeching off all your mates and having everyone hate you, or live like a tramp. Neither of those looks good to me.

Randy Watson
13-01-2005, 05:16 PM
In a just world, Luka, you would have your own radio show.

Tube Drivers rake it in and they get about 7 weeks holiday a year, very little contact with the general public (except for the leapers, obv :eek: ) and dropping the odd pearl of wisdom through the tannoy system. Sounds ideal for you.

Until I read Backjob's post I never realised how reliant we are on the sweet nature of plumbers :)

Is Mr Craner's post a suggestion or an offer? :)

luka
13-01-2005, 06:14 PM
backjob, you've swallowed the plumbing hype! it's not strictly true unfortunately. i can paint to a professional standard, i did it for a year or so. no money in that though, everyone can do it. that kind of stuff is actually very hard work. i've worked with builders a lot and they're permanantly knackered plus their backs and knees get seriously fucked, not to mention bad for the lungs. anyone know if you need a driving license to drive a tube? i should do some sort of internet search about it i spose.

nick, university is too expensive and i'm far too old. besides there's nothing i'm interested in studying.

anyone here making lots of money?

stelfox
13-01-2005, 06:16 PM
people like stelfox are ok with it but i personally wouldn't recommend it.

am i knickers. i work for the man by day. have done for 3 years now. i just don't sleep a lot, so tend to get a lot of freelancing done at night!

luka
13-01-2005, 06:52 PM
and rachel i would email you but i don't know your email address.

sufi
13-01-2005, 07:00 PM
sorry but you know this is bolox dear looka :D

can't stop meself from biting this troll, even if it feels to me somehow a little hypocritical, but it's been a sparkly sort of day so here we go.......

i'm WELLL skinted this month, altho i work in a 'high powered' type job plenty responsibility & stress, money's shite of course & i'm fuckin fine with that

today i can tell you i have spent only 1 - that was for a coffee at lunch time cos i had a hangover, i've done an important meeting in london, skammed onto the tube cross sarf london & back, w my cute colleague's travelly, got nice free lunch in homeless day center - yum! jus bin & picked a blim off me old mucka up on 9th floor, so i can relax me brains wiv a smoke... i schmoozed some BIG people today, like BIG, across europe by email & on the phone - i made some impact, i even made some kinda heavy career progress. & i looked after my boss cos he's having a bit of a crisis - it's been a busy day, but a good un.................. & all this was for free

come on we don't love money like you suggest, it's shit & you know it's shit - me, stelf, da bot, all of us feelthy careerists are doing stuff we like, not stuff that's lucrative, it's gotta pay the bills cos the bills' gotta be paid...
anything else is pure avarice, no ( tho feckin vacation once in a while could be ok)

i guess it would be codescending to tell luka that money's not everything, & the best things in life are free,etc etc bolox bolox , but not as fuckin patronising as saying getajob grrrrr :mad:

later ;)

luka
14-01-2005, 12:19 AM
yeah, i know how to get all those free things thanks, i need advice on the money thing and i don't want a little bit i want lots.

sufi
14-01-2005, 12:28 AM
i don't reckon job is the way to go then
you need to scheme something up

job is for paying rent, or for passing time & keeping off the street but not for megabucks, far as i can see

my best $$$ missions have never really been career type, they've been more like nice one offs, like qat smuggling to states, street art in dubai - other dodgy ones and little opportunities i guess, and worth it for their own sake
but that's different from salary innit

sufi
14-01-2005, 12:35 AM
job in london anyway is like a zero sum equation
is like being a junkie but without shit in yr trousers

Rachel Verinder
14-01-2005, 08:26 AM
luka if you go to the members list and click on my name you can email me that way.

sufi if you want to start pointless arguments, calling people who disagree with you a troll (indicate exactly where i suggested that people on dissensus "loved money") and use the "fuck off newbie" meme then go and do it on ilx not here.

sufi
14-01-2005, 09:07 AM
no offense meant to anyone rachel :( sorry!
definitely no fuck off newbie meme round here :D

i jus suspect luka of being a bit trolley with his original post, not you

jenks
14-01-2005, 09:10 AM
sorry maybe i'm being abit thick here but what does 'troll' mean, has it got a specific definition - i only know it in terms of my kids "i'm a troll foldolrol and i'm going to eat you for my dinner" (three billy goats gruff)

Rachel Verinder
14-01-2005, 09:46 AM
ok sufi, sorry about the misunderstanding.

sufi
14-01-2005, 09:58 AM
not at all rachel, sorry to be a wind-up

trolling, jenks, is apparently what deep sea fishing boats do: putting out lots of long lines, looking for a bite
analagous to writing something idiotic & inflammatory on a BBS and knowing that even if the first few browsers ignore it as rubbish sooner or later someone will come along and bite.

not, as commonly assumed, bad hair creatures from under the bridge
http://www.enel.ucalgary.ca/~camp/photos/misc/thumbs/troll.tn.jpg

sufi
14-01-2005, 10:07 AM
not at all rachel, sorry to be a wind-up
...especially as your posts was the most constructive advice offered by anyone! :)

stelfox
14-01-2005, 10:57 AM
i thought deep-sea fishing boats trawled, not trolled.
is this an americanism of the verb "to trawl"?
if so it's annoying.
another thing that winds me up something rotten is when people use barter and haggle interchangeably. THEY MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS!!!

btw, rachel how do i know you/you know me? just curious.

also, note to mr ingram, can you please change my beatles name to something else?! i refuse, somewhat indignantly, to be called the same thing as the frontman from the blow monkeys for another 50 posts or whatever.

sufi
14-01-2005, 11:03 AM
wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling_for_fish) say: trawlers use nets, trollers use hooks

stelfox
14-01-2005, 11:21 AM
aha. that's me learnt summink today

john eden
14-01-2005, 11:40 AM
yeah, i know how to get all those free things thanks, i need advice on the money thing and i don't want a little bit i want lots.

1) Rob a bank.

2) Start your own business.

3) Get some sort of work in The City.

Or all three.

Most people I know who earn shitloads of money are working themselves to an early grave and have no time to themselves or recognisable social lives.

Don't:

1) Have kids

2) Have ethics/morals

How much money is "lots", though?

I earn about 24k as a charity bureaucrat. I started working cash in hand as a van driver for a charity about 15 years ago and then they needed someeone to help in the office as well. One job lead to another... I'm not exactly aggressive in looking for new jobs though (been in this one nearly 5 years).

stelfox
14-01-2005, 11:50 AM
1) Rob a bank.

2) Start your own business.

3) Get some sort of work in The City.



tonight matthew i'm going to be nick leeson

sufi
14-01-2005, 12:10 PM
Don't:

1) Have kids

2) Have ethics/morals

Do:
stuff to get away from dependence on the cash economy
e.g
get a council tenancy
get a cash in hand job
shoplift
deal drugs
get an allottment (?)

another approach is get debt (it's not islamic or halal of course) I have some big ones, it's not really economical, as you end up paying the banks back double, unless you do a runner, then it's well economical!

- why are you getting uptight about cash anyway luke?

jenks
14-01-2005, 12:34 PM
thanks for the troll/ trawl explanation - frighteningly i start teaching a language and technology module on monday

luka - you could do worse than train as a teacher - no, bear with me... a grant to train and a reasonable starting salary, just don't take any responsibility staying as a classroom teacher and punching the clock etc- working hours of 8.30-3.30 and long holidays - yes there's marking and stuff, but after reading enough of your posts i get the impression you know loads and have much to say - the kids wd love you!
me, i ended up as a head of department, lots of responsibility and the money is ok (i get to go on holiday every year and buy all the cds i want). at least i get home at a decent time to see my kids.
i don't know how much is loads in your eyes but isn't 'enough' a better aim?

sufi
14-01-2005, 12:41 PM
Disclaimer: The information and services provided by the poster known as sufi ("sufi") does not constitute financial, investment or tax advice. It is intended to provide general information only and does not attempt to give you advice that relates to your specific circumstances. You are advised to discuss your specific requirements with an independent financial adviser prior to entering into any binding contracts. Whilst we try to provide advice as [broad/comprehensive/inteligble/coherent] as possible, the comparative information on financial products and services provided by this eejit may not include all products and services that are available on the market.

craner
14-01-2005, 01:06 PM
Say someone around here wanted to become a high-powered investment banker or broker or whatever, and say said person was mid-twenties, with no relevent experience or training, how would said person go about even beginning to consider it?

I'm asking because a friend of a friend needs to know.

matt b
14-01-2005, 01:09 PM
a friend of a friend lied a lot and got away with it (company was goldman sachs). don't know if he's still employed though.

luka
14-01-2005, 01:10 PM
i'm getting uptight about money because i'm overdrawn, even though today is payday and becasue i like expensive things. i don't really want lots and lots, i'm being facetious.

i can't remember why i couldn't be a teacher, they did give me a reason, though maybe things have changed. it might have been something to do with being out of the country or something. or maybe something to do with my (lack of) qualifications. i think they actually pay you to do the training.

i'm not being a troll ed, i want to make enough money to be able to afford a flat, go on holidays to exotic destinations, drink with my friends, eat well at home and in resturaunts, buy expensive cheeses and brandy, get a few more shirts, shoes and pairs of trousers and, that's pretty much it.

the easiest thing would be to go and live in new zealand (or australia) i spose. i got the passport.

luka
14-01-2005, 01:11 PM
surely your dad knows the answer to that question oliver. he'd probably tell you to learn some maths to begin with!

jenks
14-01-2005, 01:39 PM
yeah, they'd pay to train you - also the qualifications thing, they like 'em but not essential, APL - accreditation of prior learning. they'll even let you train and teach at teh same time - GTTP , graduate teacher programme. all kinds of routes, just an idea.
nice things, i can understand why you want them, but getting caught up in the constant cycle of getting and having - this christmas i got so mad with it all i just stopped - people either got oxfam goats and bikes or nothing - it felt great to escape it all.
like i said before it's about what is enough, rather than how much is loads

stelfox
14-01-2005, 01:42 PM
you'd miss london, though, luke. i've got a few ideas for you, but they're probably better discussed in person

bun-u
14-01-2005, 01:58 PM
luka, maybe you should look at making some money from olympics?

for instance, you could do some guided walks around the stratford, lea valley, thames gateway and beyond - you could as an interlude include some audio sections asking your customers to don their headphones at specific locations...'ladiers and gentlemen you are now in plaistow, manor of crazy titch, please select track 3'

I'm in the shadey world of the quasi public/private Government-sponsored regeneration programmes.... now 'back the bid' you suckers

Andrew
14-01-2005, 02:24 PM
yeah the whole 2012 thing, if london gets it , will mean loads and loads of money chucked at east london, or rather chucked at developers to "improve" east london

websites, depending on your views

http://www.nolondon2012.org/

http://www.volunteer2012.com/

Randy Watson
14-01-2005, 04:24 PM
Most "professions" - if such things can be said to exist any more - have some form of qualification procedure. There is usually one or more path to qualification but if Craner wants to become a stockbroker he will need to sit his FSA (Financial Services Authority) exams and then apply for jobs. If you want to be at the "top" of broking or investment banking then you need to work for a large city firm and usually have entered through their Graduate Trainee programme. Being a mature applicant might make you stand out.

Luka, if you want a decent wardrobe, try getting a job in a clothes shop. I'm not taking the piss. I had a year of my life where I was basically killing time before starting a post-grad course and I went to work in a clothes shop and the discount and staff sales meant I got a very tidy wardrobe for a pittance. Pay was alright too.

Having money won't make you happy but not having any can make you miserable. And I agree with Jenks, that chasing after one material thing after another just leads to enuii. Except records, obv.

Ach!
14-01-2005, 05:09 PM
Fisherman's Friend.

Class A.

Welks.

Sim Cards.

Florest.

Cafe.

Flowers.

Potatoes.

Strawberries.

Evening Standard.

Backjob
14-01-2005, 05:49 PM
Gotta disagree on one critical point above.

Thesis: people always want stuff.

Agreed.

Thesis: people always want what they aint got.

Agreed.

But... get more money, one less thing to worry about, get me? So, no, it's not totally pointless to pursue material goals. Any more than it's totally pointless to pursue any goals (that's a strong thesis worth defending. claiming money is somehow less important than "artistic recognition" or some crap isn't)

So, getting paid nothing wrong with. Also, check out "survival of the prettiest" by Nancy Etcoff for painful reasons why males in particular need to get paid.

Anyway if holidays and nice shirts is the goal, and you are a good talker. Do something sales related. It'll require fuck all in the way of commitment, and the rewards will come in quickly. It'll be a profoundly revolting way to spend your time in many ways, but in others it's very educational. And you will get cash. All the more recommended because anyone with some bullshit cliche student view of the world will regard you as a total sellout.

The more obscure the thing you are selling, the better the rewards and the less the competition as far as I can work out from what my mates make money from. Financial IT training courses and network solutions seem good places to start, whatever the fuck they are.

Added bonus is never having to talk about your work. Some of my best friends do this kind of crap and I feel no need to find out what it involves and they feel no need to tell me.

craner
14-01-2005, 05:52 PM
I'm not sure I want to stand out as a "mature applicant"...

Randy Watson, your name makes you sound like you should be in the Sweet or something, and you gave me some advice when I asked for it, which is extra ultra-cool!!!

I was actually thinking of trying to get a job on New Bond Street. I'd quite like to work at Aspreys. They pay you normal 'I can rent my own flat and not live in debt' wages (I'd shed tears with relief) for looking smart and being nice to rich people so they buy exquisite artefacts off you.

Although a friend of mine worked there and said they only employ horrible, thick aristos, and such-like.

I'm not sure I'm really serious about anything, actually. That's not half the problem, it's all of it.

My Dad's greatest moment was going to Poland and Czechoslovakia in the early 90s to lecture students about tax systems.

He likes Solzhenitsyn a lot, too.

Hmm. What am I going to eat tonight?

craner
14-01-2005, 05:58 PM
material goals, material goals...

...doesn't quite convey the feeling of hitting the street in a fine pair of Italian loafers or an Aquascutum mac, or booking tickets for a summer holiday in Pisa (Slovenia) or, I don't know, taking a nice girl out to a nice restaurant and paying for her meal without worrying about what she orders...or even just walking through the door when your soul feels grubby and sinking into the silence of your own space...

craner
14-01-2005, 06:03 PM
I only ever get misty eyed over consumption.

Backjob
14-01-2005, 06:08 PM
Or buying champagne for strangers in clubs, or wearing real diamonds, or flying halfway round the world for a weekend of dancing. Paying to get stuff made specially for you instead of buying the same mass-produced crap everyone else has to have. Being able to hold a large party in your flat and have your maid clean up the mess the day after. Losing your mobile phone and picking up your spare handset the next day because you had it hanging around in the cupboard anyway. Keeping your rental dvds as long as you like. Never opening a bill, ever. Lending your mates money and not worrying about them paying you back.

Material freedom. That's the phrase.

monkeysblood
14-01-2005, 07:58 PM
fuck me, am i missing the point here? i'm a bit drunk but give me a fucking break. are people on this board genuinely talking about fucking diamonds and mobile phones? if you want to make plenty money quick, you just need to shift some smack. then you can fuck over people on both ends of the deal, the producers and the consumers, but you're the one who's fucking LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK.

turtles
14-01-2005, 09:05 PM
fuck me, am i missing the point here? i'm a bit drunk but give me a fucking break. are people on this board genuinely talking about fucking diamonds and mobile phones? if you want to make plenty money quick, you just need to shift some smack. then you can fuck over people on both ends of the deal, the producers and the consumers, but you're the one who's fucking LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK.
agreed. this thread is shifting from "jesus, being broke sucks" to "let's flaunt our massive consumption and fuck the negative consequences." yes i have what might be called a student view of the world, but i would like to think there's a few good reasons behind it. anyway, there's a fine line between wanting to live a comfortable life and just deciding that looking out for number 1 is ALL there is. massive, conspicuous consumption is, well, arrogant. Please feel free to make a case for arrogance, i'd love to hear it.

let's call this trawling...;)

robin
14-01-2005, 10:38 PM
i agree that you should try and get published luka,heronbone contained some of the best writing ive ever read


in terms of money making,myself and several of my mates make crazy money playing online poker
i cant understand why more people don't do the same
theres five of us who've put in a serious effort to become good players,(four of whom,including myself,have only been playing in any way seriously for less than a year) and all of us have made a lot of money from it...

i'm pretty sure anyone who isn't totally stupid could at least become proficient enough to make a fair whack of money if they put in the effort...

luka
15-01-2005, 12:41 AM
heh! backjob, you're the answer to all my problems, i hope those diamonds are insured...

sales would make me feel very grubby, unless i got to sell to people i didn't like, in which case it would be ideal. i'll look into it.

satanmcnugget
15-01-2005, 02:01 AM
u arent going to make a lot of money with a job

it looks like your only real option is to sell drugs....u get into dealing crack and your chances of ending up dead or in jail soar......dealing weed is less hazardous, depending on which hood u live in...a few summers ago, a guy ive known since i was like 6 got himself killed over weed...his crime?...he was selling legit baggies and people were flocking to him over the other dealers...so even weed can be dangerous these days...you are best to start out really small...just selling baggies to make rent and keep yourself in smoke...if u decide to grow (which is where the sweet cash is), you had better work with people u can trust with your life and keep it REALLY low...snitches will get u busted quicker than u can say *#@*#

egg
15-01-2005, 05:29 AM
hey Luka, wot do you actually like doin'?

egg
15-01-2005, 05:33 AM
australia/NZ are definitely easier to live in. i would have gone there - but couldn't really deal with the thought of being out of the best music culture in the world :D

also would have had to pay #2000 pounds or something to emigrate
which with your passport you wouldn't have to worry about obviously

Backjob
15-01-2005, 07:13 AM
this thread is shifting from "jesus, being broke sucks" to "let's flaunt our massive consumption and fuck the negative consequences." yes i have what might be called a student view of the world, but i would like to think there's a few good reasons behind it. anyway, there's a fine line between wanting to live a comfortable life and just deciding that looking out for number 1 is ALL there is. massive, conspicuous consumption is, well, arrogant. Please feel free to make a case for arrogance, i'd love to hear it.

let's call this trawling...;)

Well it all depends on if consumption=arrogance.

Personally I think the empirical evidence points to consumption=fun.

luka
15-01-2005, 02:47 PM
you can be selling kilos and not making proper money. weed is not profitable and fick having pricks ringing my phone the whole time.

Backjob
15-01-2005, 03:39 PM
According to "the hero and the outlaw - marketing by jungian archetypes" by someone or other, every generation of kids needs a movie that epitomises the "caregiver" story archetype in which a bullied or otherwise weak child is made strong by caring for someone or something weaker than itself.

e.g. ET, The Yearling, Free Willy, Old Yeller.

There hasn't been one of these in a while. Can't be that hard to write it, eh?

craner
16-01-2005, 12:08 AM
Wearing good clothes, eating and drinking fine things, and buying stuff for your girl. If that's counter-revolutionary, then call me a counter.

Even Guzman paid for Shakespeare folios, import tobacco, and medicine to combat his eczema.

satanmcnugget
16-01-2005, 04:13 AM
agreed, Oliver! i dont want any "revolutionaries" on my side who arent amorous and fun...if you arent, what is the point of wanting a revolution? (considers quoting Emma and says naaaahhhh) :)

luka
16-01-2005, 01:32 PM
yeah, although there's complicated bits too
like sometimes i like to look bummy if i'm with people who'll look down on me for looking bummy, or dressing so they think i'm a thug or something, i wouldn't always want to be smart, its good to use your appearnace to fuck with peoples heads. if people have preconceptions and prejudices and stuff then its good to exploit those things.


but i would like to be able to afford some nice clothes too. and good food is even (much) more important.

luka
16-01-2005, 01:35 PM
i like making people feel uncomfortable, unsure of themselves. some people, not everybody. people who are too self-satisified. make them uneasy. it's fun.

luka
16-01-2005, 05:17 PM
its about context and stuff isn't it. what are those mart expensive clothes saying

you're a pleb and i'm a man of discernement and distinction?

i'm rich and i'm going to rub it in your face?

i'm an aesthete and i want everybody to look beautiful and elegant?

i'm interested in fashion?

i'm not from a rich background, i'm not supposed to be wearing these clothes so thats why i'm wearing them?

i want to fit in with rich people and have them accept me?

or whatever else...

you have to be aware of the messages you're giveing out, how people are going to interpret them. not to let other people determine how you behave, not that at all, just the awareness of how they react to you.

craner
17-01-2005, 01:07 AM
Ya, agree with that.

I think that Baudelaire is the case in point there, and everywhere.

MBM
17-01-2005, 02:19 AM
Hmmm, let's see:

- Accounting. An accountant once told me that his profession allowed mediocre people to earn 50k pounds a year. However you have to train for 3 years - and it is really freakin' tedious.

- Sales. Yip - if you're a good talker, then go for it. But if you have a low BS tolerance, you're in trouble.

- IT. See accounting but double the salary and halve the dress sense.

- Investment Banking. See accouting but triple the salary and quaruple the smug wanker coefficient. Remove social life.

- Management Consulting. See Investment banking but replace tailored suits with business casual.

- Start your own import/export business. You can make massive markups on luxury goods. Someone I know imports high-end skin care creams for US$5 and sells them retail for AU$100. Raking it in.

Backjob
17-01-2005, 02:47 AM
See, personally, I lke to floss because socially i run into a lot of people who come from the school of "I've always had enough money, so I look down on people who like to show off their material wealth". And flashing yr cash pisses off these trustafarian no-marks like nothing else. Especially when you prove yourself to be both smarter and a better dancer than them to boot.

And out of those occupations listed below, sales is definitely the one. You don't have to do any training or anything, and you can start earning right off the bat if you're any good at it. Plus idiots will look down on you for doing it.

turtles
17-01-2005, 05:16 AM
luka, i agree definitely that the there are a lot of different factors that determine the morality of someone's consumption, it's always more complicated than I try to describe it as. Anyway, my comment about "jesus, it sucks to be poor" was meant to imply that I think it's perfectly understandable to want to live a comfortable life where you can buy people drinks and not constantly worry about bills.

My real issue is about consumption. Conspicuious consumption just compounds it, but consumption is the base of it. I know that the people who made my running shoes, my t-shirts, most of my damn clothes are working in conditions and making amounts of money that I would never countenance if they were in my own backyard. And furthermore I know the rate at which we (meaning Western cultures) are consuming products is totally unsustainable and is doing the world great damage. I know I've made more money working in a couple programming jobs than many, many people out there make, and I know that many of these people work far harder and are far more in need of money--let alone deserving of money--than I am. We all understand these principles, they aren't very controversial.

Where people differ (I think) is in the stories they tell themselves in order to justify their continued existence in a capatilist world. And I think where arrogance comes in is that I believe a lot of people actually convince themselves that they do desrve all this luxury in the face of others suffering because they're somehow special. How else do these celebs making $20 mill for a movie justify earning that much? At some level there has to be self-delusion as to your own personal worth in relation to others. And then to flaunt your consumption....

Of course what's the other route? Modern liberal guilt, I suppose. Give a bit to charity to make it feel like you're making a difference. Also a crap solution. Why do I have to take responsibility for this stupid system that I've been born into, that treats some people so terribly? I could argue back and forth on that point all day. But the main thing is to realize that massive consumption and earning stupidly large amounts of money pretty much always involve someone else not doing so well someplace else.

I suppose I'm more or less working at this from the opposite end of things than luka. Backjob's description of people: "I've always had enough money, so I look down on people who like to show off their material wealth" is not totally off the mark unfortunately. Though I'd like to think that it's not an issue of "looking down my nose" at people, as it is disagreeing with them as a matter of reasoned principle, which I hopefully just gave a short description of above. Being a "counter-revolutionary" is also just being happy with the status quo, is it not?

(sorry for rambling on and taking this all so seriously...;) but oh well. I demand dissent!)

stelfox
17-01-2005, 12:47 PM
i'm agreeing with backjob and oliver on most of this. i'd forget about being righteous and anticapitalist if i were the rest of you lot. good food, nice sneakers, travel, being able to take women out for dinner, records, not worrying about the rent and bills are all important. pretty much the not-so-well-kept secret to a happy life as far as i'm concerned. i'm not quite there yet, but i enjoy quite a few of these luxuries and i really appreciate that i do, too. the only thing i'd point out, luka, is that it takes a while to get there and you don't have to earn heaps to eat well - just learn to cook properly and shop wisely. for instance, i eat really bloody well on about 25 a week.

luka
17-01-2005, 02:43 PM
a smallish bottle of bog standard remy martin costs about 25. each time i go to the cheese shop it sets me back at least a tenner. i eat good food, i want luxuries. i have to admit though, this thread has convinced me that i don't actually want to make money that badly, and i'm not going to change my ways dramatically. girls, good friends and a sane perspective on life are much, much more important than money when it comes to enjoying life.

john eden
17-01-2005, 04:48 PM
I would just like to point out that I hold this thread, and Luka, responsible for me having a dream about becoming a banker by taking lots of exams and wearing cartoony-style masks. :eek:

mpc
18-01-2005, 02:14 PM
http://www.kwiksave.co.uk/jobs_store_opportunities.asp

sufi
18-01-2005, 05:34 PM
http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/opendoc.htm?tbl=ADMIN&id=3ffe8fa24&page=admin#footnote1

deadline's just past :( & there's no mention of salary - interesting tho.... ;)

Chef Napalm
18-01-2005, 07:38 PM
i like making people feel uncomfortable, unsure of themselves. some people, not everybody. people who are too self-satisified. make them uneasy. it's fun.
Have you thought about politics, Luka?

Sounds like a good racket to me. Screaming Lord Sutch stylee, but, you know, without the sudden end.

Gerard
18-01-2005, 07:53 PM
Lord Sutch's end is probably the best a politician can hope for, from a career point of view at least.

Grievous Angel
19-01-2005, 06:04 PM
Management Consulting. See Investment banking but replace tailored suits with business casual.
LOL! Deffo low on social life when a project's runnin' hot. But I wore my suit this week...

Money can't make you more happy, but it can make you a bit more comfortable. But most of my friends have more job security than I do.

kooky
21-01-2005, 01:47 AM
Luka, why not get a girlfriend? Two can live as cheaply as one you know!

luka
21-01-2005, 01:53 AM
er, do you know me?

luka
21-01-2005, 02:16 AM
nah, didn't think so, so why the assumptions? maybe i've got your girlfriend, and a girlfriend of my own too.
maybe i'm a raging queer. maybe i'm a kpunkian asexual.

adam
09-02-2005, 08:53 PM
great thread :p

Ness Rowlah
11-02-2005, 02:24 AM
Write a blog about being a gigolo.
Pretend to be one if you aren't.
If women start to get all excited - be one.
Then blog some more.
Get book deal.
Sorted.

Spice all the sex in your novel with some "Morvern-Callar-light-music" references (you know
Bjork, The Scissor Sisters, Madonna), add fashion references and shagging catwalk models,
two real cats which have to be fed (for the animal lovers, and cue allergic reaction fun from one of your clients), some grimey friends for "realness", some life changing tear-jerker stuff and some glossy half-arsed seriousness. No happy ending.
Well sorted.

Selling your soul, Dr Mabuse?

(ohh - and give me 5% once done for the plot&film rights :cool: )