The first eight Black Sabbath LPs...

STN

sou'wester
... (i.e. the Ozzy Osbourne ones) are completely essential. Discuss.

Here is my view:

The first one (Black Sabbath) is just splendid bluesy classic rock

the next five are divine, awe-inspiring riff worship at varying degrees of slowness, possibly the fifth one (Sabbath Bloody Sabbath) is a bit different and has more synths and stuff, but they're still riffy synths.

Numbers seven and eight (Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die) are more contentious (most people feel it's just the first four that are essential and scoff at seven and eight which are definitely worse but are still wicked), but I reckon they sound like early Van Halen and that's alright by me. 'Air Dance' has an amazing riff as well - kind of all fast and pompous and trebly.

My favourite of the whole lot is Sabotage, which is the sixth one.

Nine and ten are okay if you can be bothered but really, who can?

Ozzy's solo stuff is rubbish.

Anyone agree with me? Or does anyone feel that the ones without Ozzy are better?
 

dHarry

Well-known member
It's all about Mob Rules (w/Ronnie James Dio) and Born Again (w/Ian Gillan)., but none of them hold a candle to Saxon's Denim and Leather or Quiet Riot's Metal Health...

Oops, just outed my teenage self... :eek:

No, but seriously, Paranoid is the Sabbath masterpiece, from deconstructed riff monster War Pigs, to the psychedelic jazz of Planet Caravan, complete with (Leslie speakered?) space vocals, to Hand of Doom's Vietnam-Vet-turning-to-heroin over an alternately ominous funk break/searing guitar mania to the proto-punk title track to 21st Century schizoid Iron Man...

The combination of the apocalyptic/narcotic nightmare vocals and lyrics serenading a phase of atomic and cold war paranoia and the death of the hippie dream, those always-unexpected incremental semi-tonal riff-progressions, the searing phasers-on-stun over-dubbed guitar slashes and hammer-ons, the supple muscular power-funk of the rhythm section, the immaculate timing (those pauses and stop-starts), well it's all overwhelming really; I've always been unable to critique it, at least while listening; the sheer sonic power of it knocks you over and pins you down; a sumo wrestler of a sound.

Too much testosterone, or an effective critique of the nightmare world that men created?
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I came to Sabbath embarassingly late, like really really late. I bought a Greatest Hits in the junk shop and was playing it and my best friend was like 'wow, who's this?' and I'm sitting there, transfixed and feeling reaaaaaally stupid, and I'm like 'It's fucking Sabbath' and she's like 'Oh shit. We fucked up'.

They played a version of War Pigs at a noise/dub/metal night called Dead and Buried that i was doing visuals at a while back, and it fucking killed it. I love hearing sabbath in clubs.

And I never progressed beyond that Greatest Hits, I really should, maybe in my old age when I watch Godard and do heroin.
 

dHarry

Well-known member
I bought a Greatest Hits in the junk shop and was playing it and my best friend was like 'wow, who's this?' and I'm sitting there, transfixed and feeling reaaaaaally stupid, and I'm like 'It's fucking Sabbath' and she's like 'Oh shit. We fucked up'.
what was the problem - was it the original greatest hits (all the Ozzy classics)? that was a stellar collection, and my introduction to them too. Laguna Sunrise still brings a tear to the eye... as does the riff to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
 

STN

sou'wester
The Dio albums are pretty good - but I find them more dazzling than grinding, if that makes sense. Also, I can't forgive Dio for being in Elf, who are rubbish.

Will anyone emerge to show love for Seven Stars, TYR or Headless cross?
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
to me, anything off the first 5 are wicked*.

plenty of my friends would argue everything up to/including sabotage was essential, particularly those from the w.mids- but then i've never met a brummie who doesn't talk about them with either a) hushed reverence or b) babbling enthusiasm

everyone should be able to agree they weren't sabbath post-ozzy

this could keep casual listeners happy:
http://www.connollyco.com/discography/black_sabbath/greatest.html



they were possibly the greatest rock band ever







*excluding the hippy acoustic numbers, obviously
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
Got Paranoid several years ago, which rules, especially the quasi-hippy stuff.

Got IV a few months ago and finding it a bit hard to get into.

Spent several hours last night watching sabbath live clips on youtube - c'mon!
 

mms

sometimes
there is a sabbath boxset with all these albums up to ronnie james dio's heaven and hell album you can get fairly cheaply



the first 4 or so are excellent and sabotage is also good in a kind of mirror of pink floyds the wall but not as boring way.
 

STN

sou'wester
My mum (the gods of metal bless her) bought me that box set for Christmas a while back as my LPs were knackered.

I like the narcotic hippy numbers (Solitude, Orchid, Planet Caravan), at the very least I think you should look on them as an 'if they didn't do the bit that sucks, then the bit that's cool wouldn't be as cool'.
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
sabbath>>>led zeppelin

Almost a tie for me, Sabbath brought the doom to metal, but Zeppelin brought the sex and the Lord of the Rings imagery, and what would metal be without that? ...(well, LOTR imagery anyways, "sexy" metal, excluding Van Halen, usually sucks)...

It's interesting the semi-serious attitude metal has come to develop about it's evilness, considering Sabbath were just stoned hippies who started making doomy music for the novelty of it. Iommi supposedly, according to one story, happened across the evil, ominous vibe while playing a lick using the devil's tritone, which came to be the riff for the song "Black Sabbath," so in effect, that forbidden interval that the church had supposedly banned in the medieval ages ended up birthing heavy metal. Funny the church recognized it's negative, "evil" vibe way back then. :)
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
there is a sabbath boxset with all these albums up to ronnie james dio's heaven and hell album you can get fairly cheaply



the first 4 or so are excellent and sabotage is also good in a kind of mirror of pink floyds the wall but not as boring way.


thanks for the tip. just ordered this (only have paranoid, sabotage and a few others) - cant wait!
 
i remember buying the first album on cassette, probaly at Kmart or something, when i was in 7th grade. i'll never forget lying in my bedroom, late that night, popping it into my huge sony walkman and hearing that ominous intro with the thunder and the church bells, then those doomsday guitar chords and crashing cymabals...i thought i had discovered a door to a parallel universe... it wasnt until a few years back that i really gave them a deeper listen and i bought four albums in one fell swoop. theres a reason that their music is constantly being 'rediscovered', it fucking rocks... one of the best bands of ALL time, in my opinion.
 

STN

sou'wester
i remember buying the first album on cassette, probaly at Kmart or something, when i was in 7th grade. i'll never forget lying in my bedroom, late that night, popping it into my huge sony walkman and hearing that ominous intro with the thunder and the church bells, then those doomsday guitar chords and crashing cymabals...i thought i had discovered a door to a parallel universe... it wasnt until a few years back that i really gave them a deeper listen and i bought four albums in one fell swoop. theres a reason that their music is constantly being 'rediscovered', it fucking rocks... one of the best bands of ALL time, in my opinion.

Paranoid is the one album in my record collection that is guaranteed to reduce me to a stoned teenager every time I hear it.

I will now be a nerd and rank the albums (the gaps between them are almost infinitesimal):

1. Sabotage
2. Paranoid
3. Volume 4
4. Masters of Reality
5. Black Sabbath
6. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
7. Never Say Die
8. Technical Ecstasy

Despite my previous bluster I will acknowledge that the last two of this period are the worst. They still rule though...
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
what was the problem - was it the original greatest hits (all the Ozzy classics)? that was a stellar collection, and my introduction to them too. Laguna Sunrise still brings a tear to the eye... as does the riff to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.

The problem was feeling really stupid that we'd both got to the age of 28 and never heard it before, it was such a glaring omission, I've rarely felt that dumb hearing something. I'd just dismissed them prior to that as sounding like Zeppelin, who - Levy Breaks notwithstanding - I don't really like.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I've got the first six Sabbath LPs, and haven't really heard any others at all. Even within those first six I think the first four are much better than #s 5 and 6. Master Of Reality is my favourite, the riff to Into The Void is just incredible, you can hear the blueprint for pretty much all stoner/doom/grunge music right there - I think Tool probably wouldn't exist were it not for Planet Caravan on Paranoid - essential stuff.

I like Led Zep better, though. Just finished reading a rather good book about their fourth album.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
I really like the dark fuzzy grit Sabbath has going on in a general way, and I like some of their faux-eastern sounding hooks. I've always thought of them as peerless, for some reason: like they did something first that hasn't been done nearly as well by anyone else since. Led Zep goes in a different category in my mind. Can't think of a name for it at the moment...
 

dHarry

Well-known member
Stooges, Sabbath, & Led Zep (& maybe Ramones) each did something similar but distinct which defined a field of intensity, an exploration of power and intensity within a restricted set of parameters.

Sabbath jettisoned the blues and discovered their semi-tonally incremental riff machine whose slides in and out of keys slices deliciously through the western-musical ear/brain, within a prog-jazz-funk rhythmic backing, Zep did this immense hypnotic steroid-enhanced blues-bloat in between lysergic neo-folk nonsense (the latter diverting nevertheless), Stooges did a thc-tunnel vision monoto-bludgeon thrash with the added value of Iggy's punk-stoner (first lp) or deranged-damaged rogue male (2nd lp) schtick...
 
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