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View Full Version : What's the difference between narcassism and solipsism?



Gabba Flamenco Crossover
08-03-2007, 02:57 PM
No, not an except from the world's most cerebral standup act, just something I'd like to clarify with the more experienced/trained thinkers on the board. A few of the treads recently have orbitted around one or noth of these concepts - what's the distinction between them? Can they be used interchangeably? Is solipsism a rational take (concerning the reality of the external world) on the territory that narcassism appraches from an emotional angle (ie. in terms of the value placed on the self vis a vis the world, using terms like 'self-love' etc.).To what extent are they two sides of the same coin?

Mr. Tea
08-03-2007, 03:05 PM
As I understand the terms they're not particularly similar at all. Narcissism is just self-love, or excessive self-regard, while solipsism is the concept or feeling that the external world does not exist, or exists only as an artefact of one's own mind, something like that.

I guess a solipsistic conviction could lead to a person seeming narcissistic - although a lot of narcissists are convinced everyone else loves them too, which wouldn't make a lot of sense if they didn't really think other people had independent reality.

swears
08-03-2007, 03:21 PM
...solipsism is the concept or feeling that the external world does not exist, or exists only as an artefact of one's own mind, something like that.



Isn't solipsism the idea that the outside world beyond your perception may as well not exist, rather than the conviction that it doesn't?

Mr. Tea
08-03-2007, 03:24 PM
I expect there's a family of related definitions, depending on context, eg. philosophy, psycholanalysis, sociology etc.

Guybrush
08-03-2007, 09:24 PM
Slightly related, I looked up these words earlier today (definitions from The Oxford American Dictionary):

EGOISM
USAGE The words egoism and egotism are frequently confused, as though interchangeable, but there are distinctions worth noting. Both words derive from Latin: ego (‘I’), the first-person singular pronoun. Egotism, the more commonly used term, denotes an excessive sense of self-importance, too-frequent use of the word 'I,' and general arrogance and boastfulness. Egoism, a more subtle term, is perhaps best left to ethicists, for whom it denotes a view or theory of moral behavior in which self-interest is the root of moral conduct. An egoist, then, might devote considerable attention to introspection, but could be modest about it, whereas an egotist would have an exaggerated sense of the importance of his or her self-analysis, and would have to tell everyone.

EGOTISM
egotism, egoism
noun
Darla's egotism will always thwart her chances for a lasting relationship SELF-CENTEREDNESS, egomania, egocentricity, self-interest, selfishness, self-seeking, self-serving, self-regard, self-love, narcissism, self-admiration, vanity, conceit, self-importance; boastfulness. See also note at PRIDE .
THE RIGHT WORD Is the handsome, arrogant, successful politician who thinks the world revolves around him an egoist or an egotist? Egotism is a negative term that combines extreme self-preoccupation with a tendency to show off or attract attention, while egoism is a more neutral term for those who are preoccupied with their own needs and interests but do not necessarily consider themselves superior (: the egoism of teenagers is well-documented).

gek-opel
10-03-2007, 05:12 PM
As I understand the terms they're not particularly similar at all. Narcissism is just self-love, or excessive self-regard, while solipsism is the concept or feeling that the external world does not exist, or exists only as an artefact of one's own mind, something like that.

I guess a solipsistic conviction could lead to a person seeming narcissistic - although a lot of narcissists are convinced everyone else loves them too, which wouldn't make a lot of sense if they didn't really think other people had independent reality.

Narcissists REQUIRE the love of others to continue to function. This is why they typically manipulate others into such a position. if you are looking for an emotional solipsism, then perhaps anti-social personality disorder/sociopathy might be more the kind of thing, or any condition where the awareness of others as meaningful subjects is denuded...?

zhao
10-03-2007, 07:16 PM
also, it is common today for people to confuse self obsession with narcissism. self obsessed people are endlessly looking at themselves, not admiring, but worrying about the way they appear. this stems from insecurities, self doubt, and even self-loathing, very much different from the self love of narcissism. but i suppose both dynamics sometimes exist within one person.

zhao
10-03-2007, 07:18 PM
i would say someone like mathew barney's body of work is solipsistic in the classic sense. (reminded of him by Gek's icon)

m77
12-03-2007, 10:19 AM
Solipsism is the notion that your mind is the only thing that exists and therefore the world you perceive is simply a product of your imagination.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest reading the opening part of Bertrand Russell's 'The Problems Of Philosophy' which deals with the limits of knowledge from sensation alone.

woops
15-03-2007, 11:48 AM
Narcissus fell in love with his reflection, not with himself.

nomadologist
15-03-2007, 02:32 PM
i would say someone like mathew barney's body of work is solipsistic in the classic sense. (reminded of him by Gek's icon)

this is kind of off-topic, sorry, but have you seen that giant masturbation machine Matty B did? it's like a big tractor with this weird contraption on the front that spins around with really tall "feelers" on it that are kind of shaped like candles. it's amazing.

maybe i can find a picture of it...

Guybrush
15-03-2007, 02:52 PM
Narcissus fell in love with his reflection, not with himself.

Is it an important distinction?

paintatak
06-04-2007, 05:30 PM
I think the empirical difference is in the movements they perform. Solipsism performs a circularity, whose production is the Whole produced by the very motion it makes, and that Whole is an inclusive, reduced relation of interiority to an idea of Being.
Narcissistic movement is an elongated ovalarity(!) whose production is a Whole that includes only that part of an outside which reflects an image of the interior self back as Same, this is in relation to an idea of Existence. This I think, is why we get them confused, because the question of Being must be considered as levels of Being : Being as such, Existence in the world and The rupture of an Event.
possibly!


:rolleyes:

mms
06-04-2007, 06:03 PM
the two seem to be interchangable to an extent, or a narcissist esp a wounded narcissisist, or malignant narcissist can be pushed, might be forced or may desire a kind of solipsisim, even though think solipsisim can't really actually exist while somehow narcissists get away with it or are even praised for their narcissism.
The reasons given are generally the force of their personality and their success, and the fact that narcissists do love to publically air their problems and vexations about others, because other not so narcissist people will react emphatically.

Narcissisim seems to be an interesting and common place thing nowdays, im sure i know loads, people who carry their problems around with them so they can tell everyone about them, then there are the cruel self interested trouncers, i'm sick and tired of those people really, but something like myspace unintentionally encourages it, i'm looking forward to the backlash.

firefinga
25-05-2017, 08:57 AM
Narcissisim seems to be an interesting and common place thing nowdays, im sure i know loads, people who carry their problems around with them so they can tell everyone about them, then there are the cruel self interested trouncers, i'm sick and tired of those people really, but something like myspace unintentionally encourages it, i'm looking forward to the backlash.

sorry, another ten years later bump from me, but this statement even more accurate now. (btw, I blame Apple with their range of "I" products for this)

Mr. Tea
25-05-2017, 12:19 PM
(btw, I blame Apple with their range of "I" products for this)

Yeah but you can BRUTALLY troll them by putting black tape over the logo on your MacBook Pro. :crylarf: