Synth Recommendations

I could talk to you all day about this.
It depends what you want to do, how much money you want to spend etc.

Questions to ask yourself:

Does it need to be polyphonic?
Does is need to be multitimbral?
Does it need to have memories for sounds?
Does it need to have MIDI?
Does it need to have a keyboard?

What do I want it to sound like?

I like lots of synths for different reasons.......

Edward said:

Does it need to have a keyboard?

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yeah my first question was going to be are looking for hardware or a softsynth?

If you want to buy a synth to play with, I'd probably look at one of the little ones from Korg or Novation. They're easy to use, they sound good and you can fiddle with the noises using the knobs.

If you're asking about all time favourite synths from the Dissensus gear head massive I'd probably say the Moog, the Jupiter, the System 100 and most of all, the 808 sub bass sound when combined with the sampler of your choice.

Nord Lead 2 And Virus T1

What sort of music do you want to make?

And how technical do you want to get? Some synths are great for just messing around on, others require a degree of forethought and theoretical knowledge to get the best out of them.

Alesis Ion is a synth I'd recommend for warm, 70s-influenced sounds. They do sound really good for a virtual analog synth (that is, a synth that uses maths models of analog components encoded in DSP). If you want to go down the route of real, flesh-and-blood analogue... well, your options are limited unless you've got money to spend, not least on maintainance, unless you're technical enough to do your own. But some of the early 80s Roland synths like the JX3P are good value.

OK... well the ones that sound like "synths" are the analogue ones.
Probably the reason you liked the Moog is that it's the only analogue synth they sell in that shop. However, it's monophonic and expensive.
If you want something poly and analogue, your best bet is to buy something vintage unless you are feeling pretty loaded.
So the next question is what's your budget? Then I can give you a list of recommendations.

The other option is all the "virtual" analogue synths. In my opinion most of them aren't that good, and more importantly, if you do like them, the fact that they are DSP emulations of analogue synths means that there is nothing they can do that you can't do in software. So if you like them, save yourslef some dosh and just buy software and a controller keyboard.
If you decide to do that, I'm sure someone else on here can tip you off about good VST synths.
If you wanna buy a "real" synth, like I said I am happy to talk about it to you forever

I would help

but then that would give away secrets lol

I guess the most imp. starting question nowadays though is...hardware or software?

Woebot

When's your next woebot video out?! loved the last one...

If you're interested in a decent and cheapish soft synth then I would recommend Hydra (http://www.synapse-audio.com/hydra.php). Its got enough presets to find what you want and enough knobs to tweak around if you want to create your own or make adjustments.

You could also 'find it' elsewhere on the internet, but I wouldn't know anything about cracking software. Oh no.

m

WOEBOT said:

in the cheesiest way possible it would probably need to be polyphonic. because otherwise i couldnt do chords and all that.... i want it to sound like IT IS a synth (so i guess the mini-moogs are some kind of suggestion)... i wandered around soho soundhouse yesterday and played with some. didnt really bond with anyone. the moog was quite fun, but looked a bit fiddly....

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Well, the moog you played with was monophonic, like the majority of analog synths. It's very difficult to build a synth with a useful amount of polyphony using analog electronics, because each note of polyphony needs to have it's own synth architecture - so a 10-note polyphonic synth is really 10 seperate synths with a common control system. A few were built at the end of the 70s, and are now regarded as classics - the Prophet 5, the Jupiter 8, Memorymoog and the Oberheim OB series - but they are large, unwieldy and prone to breaking down a lot. They're also extremely expensive. Buying any of those synths 2nd hand now will cost you well over a grand.

Because polyphonic synths weren't really around in the 70s, most of the classic synth sounds and playing styles you associate with analog synths were developed through monophonic playing - in fact, a lot of purist synth players regarded the arrival of polyphony as the start of some kind of decline. Before that, synths were exotic hybrid instruments - using the front panel controls, players could shape the pitch and timbre of the tone after a note was played, or even treat pitch, timbre and amplitude as completely separate characteristics. This approach produced sounds that were more akin to a lead guitar or a saxophone than to any kind of keyboard instrument, but with a much greater control over timbre. When polyphonic synths appeared (so the argument goes), players got sidetracked with chords and lost this experimental edge, and the possibilities of synth playing got gradually narrowed down until synths became, essentially, souped-up electric pianos.

So, yes, think about what kind of stuff you want to play, and how you want to use it. But you say you want a synth that sounds like a synth - which I guess means the classic subtractive architecture (modulators>>oscillator>>filter>>amplifier) that you associate with analog synthesis. In that case, you've really got 3 options:

Virtual Analog

Virtual analog synths are digital devices programmed to behave like classic analog synth circuits. They first appeared in the mid 90s and nowadays there are lots to choose from. Because these kinds of synths are essentially just DSP chips running code, Edward is quite right in saying that they are effectively purpose-built computers, and it's true that buying a software synth program to run on a normal PC will generally get you the same sounds for less money. But there's also the inspiration factor to consider - IMO, really good instruments should inspire you to play them and create new sounds, and a lot of people just don't find it inspiring to sit at a computer. I know several producers who don't use computers for music, because they associate computers with mundane, repetitive, non-creative tasks and an alienating work enviroment that they don't want in thier studio. There's obviously still a big market for hardware synths so maybe quite a lot of people feel this way.

In terms of sound quality, virtual analog synths have come a long way in the last 10 years as programmers have developed their skills, and some of the newer ones are really excellent. They also typically have features that are impractical to implement on real analog synths, such as patch memories, sequencing and onboard effects. Virtual analog synths can be monophonic or polyphonic at the flick of a switch, because it's really all just a case of reallocating DSP resources.

Monophonic Analog

As I said, most real anolog synths are monophonic, and it's perfectly possible to spend a huge wedge of money on a vintage analog monophonic synth - however, there are also lots of cheap-and-cheerful older synths around that won't cost a fortune. You can get synths like the EDP Wasp or the Roland SH-101 2nd hand for a few hundred quid - they're immediate, they sound great, they've been used on loads of classic records. Reliability isn't such an issue with these devices because the circuits are relatively simple, so they don't break down as often and when they do they're easier to fix.

There are also several really good monophonic analog synths currently in production. Because of dance culture's fondness for classic analog sounds, there has been a renaissance in analog design over the last 10 years - although most modern analogs come as rack modules, so you'd need an external MIDI keyboard. But MIDI keyboards are pretty cheap to buy, and you could use it for other things, like triggering samples on your computer as you suggested.

The analog vs. digital debate is never very far from the surface when people are comparing synths, and it's inevitable this thread will touch on it. Ultimately, you need to try out several synths of different designs and see which ones you prefer. For what it's worth though, here's my opinion. As I said, in terms of sound quality I don't think there's much to choose between a well-programmed digital model of an analog synth, and an actual analog circuit - and if you do the FFT tests, you can prove that objectively. But what makes analog synths so inspiring to use is the immediacy of thier user interface: like a guitar amp, all the controls are physically coupled to the sound itself, so you feel like you're controlling an instrument in real time. Once you start adding things like patch memories and multitimbrality, you begin to abstract that process, until what you end up with is more of a production tool than an instrument. If you want something that makes you want to sit down and play, and that's fun, you may end up going with a real analog synth.

Polyphonic Analog

As I said already, this is the most impractical route to go down. For a start, there are no polyphonic analogs currently being made, so you'd need to get a vintage model from the late 70s/early 80s. You can get some Japanese synths from that era without spending too much money (such as the Roland Junos or the JX8P) - but anything American that's worth having will cost you a fortune.

One final tip - if you decide to get something 2nd hand, go on the American Ebay site and find someone prepared to ship to the UK. The exchange rate is ridiculous at the moment, about 2 dollars to the pound, so even once you've factored in shipping costs and a voltage convertor you'll still save a lot of money.

Hope that helps.

Edward said:

OK... well the ones that sound like "synths" are the analogue ones.
Probably the reason you liked the Moog is that it's the only analogue synth they sell in that shop. However, it's monophonic and expensive.
If you want something poly and analogue, your best bet is to buy something vintage unless you are feeling pretty loaded.

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The various Dave Smith Evolvers (poly, mono, rack keyboard) seem to get a lot of respect. Although the poly ones are still a bit pricey. There are various sorts of new analogue modulars that are available and I guess the advantages there are that you can start small (but admittedly still not cheap) and build up and that you can pretend to be Tonto's Expanding Head Band.

The other option is all the "virtual" analogue synths. In my opinion most of them aren't that good, and more importantly, if you do like them, the fact that they are DSP emulations of analogue synths means that there is nothing they can do that you can't do in software. So if you like them, save yourslef some dosh and just buy software and a controller keyboard.
If you decide to do that, I'm sure someone else on here can tip you off about good VST synths.

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I've got an Alesis Ion (virtual analogue with a bit of other stuff thrown in) and it's really nice and I'm glad I've got it, but yeah, software plus a midi controller is probably a much more cost efficient way of doing essentially the same thing.

With software synths, there's a lot of good free stuff around at the moment, and as far as I'm concerned it makes sense to start with that and then shell out for more expensive things if and when you start to feel limited by the free stuff. IMO if you can't learn to get good noises out of a free VST you won't be able to get good noises out of a vey expensive one either.

edit: Hmmm, GFC just said most of that a lot better. But there are real analogue polys still being made, such as the above mentioned Dave Smith Poly Evolver and the Alesis Andromeda.

Slothrop said:

With software synths, there's a lot of good free stuff around at the moment, and as far as I'm concerned it makes sense to start with that and then shell out for more expensive things if and when you start to feel limited by the free stuff. IMO if you can't learn to get good noises out of a free VST you won't be able to get good noises out of a vey expensive one either.

edit: Hmmm, GFC just said most of that a lot better. But there are real analogue polys still being made, such as the above mentioned Dave Smith Poly Evolver and the Alesis Andromeda.

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Also worth adding that many of the best soft synth developers offer fairly flexible demos. Arturia are a good example - their Moog Modular and Arp2600 are both worth downloading to get an idea of the kind of sounds you can get out of them. I've used the Moog Modular for 3 yrs or so. It sounds great for leads and pads, though as with a lot of soft synths it can't match the warmth or weight of an analogue equivalent for basslines.

It's definitely worth considering synths that run on accelerator cards such as TC Powercore and Creamware platforms. The accelerator cards provide dedicated hardware resources for synths and effects to run on, which overcomes the limitations of native CPU overhead. This means that they can implement processor heavy, and hence better sounding modules. The Powercore 01 is a remarkably faithful SH-101 emulation. You can also buy a virtual Virus B which runs on it. I don't own a creamware platform, but I've heard the synths and they also sound superb.

For me one of the dissapointing aspects of soft synth development is the lack of progressive/futurist designs given the flexibility of software. The market is full of recreations, many of them quite poor. It would be cool to see some of the developers focussing on serious, decent-sounding, granular synths, wavetable synths and most of all physical modelling synths. Physical modelling is the future, does anyone know of anyone who's doing this well?

It's worth pointing out that a monophonic synth with an arpeggiator will allow you to hold down a chord and the synth "plays" through the chord notes one at a time (up and down in various combinations), which when done quickly and filter-sweeping across the frequency range will have you drooling faster than you can say Delia and Gavin.

And you cannot beat the pleasure of playing with (yes, like a toy) an analog synth.

Another option is a sampler. Samplers, as I discovered gradually, are just digital synthesiser engines without an oscillator, and into which you can put any sound source, like wave forms which play just like synth-tones - i.e. they're not just for drum loops, orchestral hits and dog barks! They have the synth. architecture of [envelope -> filter -> lfo etc.], high polyphony, fx, etc. And will give you both synth sounds that sound like synths PLUS banks of pianos, strings, drums, etc. usually recorded from the real thing.

An Emu ESI 2000 or Yamaha A4000 will probably cost you a couple of hundred quid, although they have a bit of a learning curve to get in-depth into editing, and they need a midi keyboard to play them. I guess they're obsolete compared to current software, but still have the advantage of being a physical thing with knobs and buttons.

Slothrop said:

With software synths, there's a lot of good free stuff around at the moment

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Any recommendations on the free stuff available at the moment? Thanks in advance.

tate said:

Any recommendations on the free stuff available at the moment? Thanks in advance.

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Off the top of my head...
Vrtual analog:
Ichiro Toda's Synth 1
rgc Triangle II
Fuzzpils' Oatmeal
most of Novakill's stuff
Voltkitchen Minimogue VA and Arppe2600va
Other stuff:
Greenoak Crystal
Odo's Purple
Ugo's Texture
U-He's Triple Cheese
Empty Square NubiLE.

All good fun.

Thanks for that, Slothrop, will check 'em.