"I am a strange loop"

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Have you ever read Godel, Escher, Bach? Wonderful book."
One of my school friends used to love that and always read me quotes and stuff from it. Started lots of interesting conversations at school. I've never read it all the way through myself (just dipped in to it) but I always mean to get round to it.
 
Read GEB, it's great.

It is not new-age guff. It is well thought-out interesting stuff.

Also Hofstadter's book with Daniel Dennet is worth reading: "The Mind's I"
and lots of Dennet's solo work is fascinating as well on related subjects.
 

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
In the late 80s / early 90s there was a weird consulting company called Godel Escher Bach.

It's supposed to be a very good book.
 
Matt I can lend you Godel Escher Bach if you're ever in the area or want to meet up for a drink.....
email if interested!
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
That sounds really interesting. G,E,B has been on my eventual to-read list for ages, too.

The most difficult book I ever read was also about consciousness:


Penrose attempts to prove (using, amongst other things, Goedel's Incompletenes Theorem and a very in-depth discussion of Turing machines) that the human mind, because it can comprehend certain kinds of logical and mathematical puzzles, necessarily works by "non-computational" means (i.e. it is not a 'biological computer' or 'wet-ware' Turing machine). He then goes on to suggest that superposition of quantum states in the protein molecules in neural 'microtubules' - possibly in association with quantum-gravitational effects! - provides the necessary non-computational factor. Pretty mind-blowing stuff, and I'm sure a lot of it is pure hogwash, but it was worth reading.
 
Penrose is cool because he takes things like Turing's Universal Computer and Quantum physics seriously and writes about where that leads his thoughts, whereas most scientists only think about these fundamental theories as far as it is handy/convenient/expedient to whatever they are doing at the time.
But I don't think he is right about the human brain not being a Turing machine.
I'd love to read the book though.....
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
It's VERY hard-going - 'pop science' it is not. I had to read the sections on quantum entanglement and decoherence very slowly and carefully, and this is coming from someone with a Master's degree in theoretical physics (although I found the symbolic logic harder). Some of his 'proofs' are so complex you just end up more or less taking his word for it, because he's Roger Penrose, Oxford's Ninja Professor of Mathematics.

A mate of mine who's read it said he thought the conclusion was more or less Penrose saying "To conclude, I don't really have a clue how consciousness comes about, so, er, quantum gravity, anyone? Look, a flying weasel! *scarpers*".
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
I've read The Emperor's New Mind, which seems to be a sort of forerunner to Shadows of the Mind, and thought that it was really excellent on all of the classic stuff, but then transitions seamlessly into his own more controversial ideas / speculation without signalling that he's done so. Which is a bit iffy in a pop-sci book.
 

borderpolice

Well-known member
I've read The Emperor's New Mind, which seems to be a sort of forerunner to Shadows of the Mind, and thought that it was really excellent on all of the classic stuff, but then transitions seamlessly into his own more controversial ideas / speculation without signalling that he's done so. Which is a bit iffy in a pop-sci book.

Penrose's work has been subject to extensive criticism, for example in this review by Hilary Putnam.
 

Martin Dust

Techno Zen Master
This review made me laugh....

Sharp corners, May 19, 2007
By Mr. Clive J. Tooth (Reading, BERKS United Kingdom) - See all my reviews


Dear Doug,

I have been reading your book "I Am A Strange Loop".

I bought the book on Amazon, it arrived well-packaged, as is usual with Amazon books.

Sorry, I got interrupted here. My wife has just handed me a framed version of
[Interrupted again here
___[Interrupted yet again here
______[I have to stop completely]
___]
]
I will start again later. I don't think I can carry on now. Perhaps I can.

I have just got up to the bit in Chapter 3, where you mention the number 641. I love [6 lines deleted] Gauss.

My wife went out of the room a few minutes ago.

Anyway, the book had a dust jacket when it arrived. I detest dust jackets, they make the book more difficult to hold. I took the dust jacket off and ripped it in half. Possibly ripping that picture of you in half. I felt a pang of guilt as I did that. But, what is one more pang in a world of pangs?

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I have been reading the book laying on my back, on a bed.

The corners of the cover are very sharp. You could consider making the corners of your next book rounded. And, perhaps, the corners of the pages, too.

[Added much later] I have now guillotined off the offending corners.

[Added a little earlier] I have now realised that it is impossible for me to write an Amazon review of this book.
 
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