David Toop - Sugar and Poison Soul Ballads CD

stevied

Well-known member
I've recently been replaying the David Toop compiled CD Sugar and Poison : Tru-Life Soul Ballads For Sentients, Cynics, Sex Machines & Sybarites (1996, Virgin Records Ambient Series). The odd track aside it`s a great comp, a personal favourite, and like any other Toop assembled (or `curated`) disc, it`s well worth picking up. The man certainly has ears!

A simple request - I`m now searching for tracks of a similar nature to make up another CD or two for my own listening. I`m struggling, however, to find the material. Not including different tracks from artists on the Toop discs, I only have a short list so far :

Stevie Wonder; Syreeta (not sure which yet); Chocolate Milk - `Time Machine`; Marvin Gaye - `After the Dance` (vocal) or something from Here My Dear album.

Anyway, I`d be grateful if people can suggest things; either new artists or different songs from the same artists below.

Here`s a Toop quote on the uncanniness of the soul sound he was looking when compiling the CD. Below that is the 2 CD track-list

With that particular compilation, I was sick and tired of the way soul ballads had been dismissed as romantic escapist drivel over the years by intellectuals of all persuasions and colours and then ended up being packaged by record companies as generic fuck soundtracks. The relationship between the notes, the artwork and the music was an attempt to create unease, to make a gentle push towards listening at a depth beneath the preconceptions about what was being said in the lyrics, the vocal techniques, the tempo, the type of chords, the arrangements and all the other indicators of genre stereotypes. I suppose some people thought it was a fuck soundtrack for manic depressives. Personally, I find that album overpoweringly romantic, even though it's supposed to be a bit disturbing, but then romance is disturbing in itself.

Sugar and Poison Track-List.

1.1 Johnny "Guitar" Watson - I Want To Ta-Ta You Baby 5:42
1.2 The Isley Brothers - Sensuality 6:45
1.3 Betty Everett - Bedroom Eyes 3:49
1.4 Sly & The Family Stone - Just Like A Baby 5:03
1.5 Tashan - Chasin' A Dream 4:30
1.6 Curtis Mayfield - When Seasons Change 5:17
1.7 Loleatta Holloway - My Way 5:17
1.8 Al Green - I Didn't Know 7:42
1.9 Isaac Hayes - Never Can Say Goodbye 5:04
1.10 Dennis Edwards - Coolin' Out
1.11 Mr Fingers - What About This Love 6:29
1.12 Ken Burke - Risin' To The Top (Give It All You Got) 4:34

2.1 Smokey Robinson - Cruisin' 4:18
2.2 The Stylistics - People Make The World Go Round 3:25
2.3 Meli'sa Morgan - Do Me 5:08
2.4 Eddie Kendricks - Honey Brown 4:46
2.5 Loose Ends - Hangin' On A String 3:27
2.6 Allen Toussaint - Southern Nights 3:27
2.7 Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band - Nocturnal Interludes 3:18
2.8 Zapp - Computer Love 4:39
2.9 Bootsy's Rubber Band - Vanish In Our Sleep 5:43
2.10 Bobby Womack - If You Don't Want My Love Give It Back 2:48
2.11 O.V. Wright - That's The Way I Feel About Cha 4:19
2.12 Charles Jackson - Passionate Breezes 4:22
2.13 Luther Vandross - The Other Side Of The World 5:42
2.14 Chic - At Last I Am Free 7:08

The quote is an excerpt from an online interview at Tangents. The full text is here :

http://www.tangents.co.uk/tangents/main/pre-2001/notionofsound.html

Thanks!
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
You've gotta have the Chi-Lites on there mate. Hey Girl was good enough to make Tony Soprano cry (just before he took his belt to the corrupt councillor for shagging his ex).
 

Woebot

Well-known member
i always wanted to get that cd. weird soul is the brief isn't it?

i dunno, its a soul collectors question really, but these are a bit odd:

sweet charles- soul man
donald byrd- christo redentor
cymande- the message
porcupine - nature zone
mtume - juicy fruit
light of saba?
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
nothing there seems that disturbing or dark to be honest. but if you want some kinda disturbing or dark (not necessarily lyrically) soul, check out these songs -

when did you stop loving me when did i stop loving you - marvin gaye (truly obsessive - the whole here my dear album is a neglected classic IMO)
creepin - stevie wonder
ill stay - funkadelic
all your goodies are gone - parliament
cause weve ended as lovers - syreeta

the brides of funkensteins version of vanish in my sleep is worth finding too.

the problem with soul is that a fair amount of it really IS escapist and intensely romantic, but i can accept that yes, the subtleties have been invariably lost over the past few decades sadly.
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
nothing there seems that disturbing or dark to be honest. but if you want some kinda disturbing or dark (not necessarily lyrically) soul, check out these songs -

when did you stop loving me when did i stop loving you - marvin gaye (truly obsessive - the whole here my dear album is a neglected classic IMO)
creepin - stevie wonder
ill stay - funkadelic
all your goodies are gone - parliament
cause weve ended as lovers - syreeta

the brides of funkensteins version of vanish in my sleep is worth finding too.

the problem with soul is that a fair amount of it really IS escapist and intensely romantic, but i can accept that yes, the subtleties have been invariably lost over the past few decades sadly.

That Syreeta tune is the bollocks. Hated it when i first heard it - thought it was slushy, sentimental and all the rest - but there's something about it that eats away at you.

The Temptations did a fantastic cover of Ain't No Sunshine - ambient soul before anyone coined the term.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
buy 'dave godin's deep soul treasures' comps- 4 volumes, every home should have them anyway- generally focuses on lost love/ why romance won't work etc- its not stuff to be played at weddings, but will make you cry.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
i didnt really like those deep soul albums. maybe i need to hear them again but at the time i just felt like the depth of the performances totally outstripped the by the numbers-ness of the songs (or lyrics mainly). not that i was expecting poetry from the lyrics, just something a bit less predictable. i might appreciate it more these days though.

donny hathaway should also definitely be investigated in this thread. check out for all we know and someday well all be free.
 

jenks

thread death
That Syreeta tune is the bollocks. Hated it when i first heard it - thought it was slushy, sentimental and all the rest - but there's something about it that eats away at you.

The Temptations did a fantastic cover of Ain't No Sunshine - ambient soul before anyone coined the term.

Isaac Hayes does a fantastic version of Aint No Sunshine on the Wattstax live album which I would heartily recommend, but then I heartily recommend pretty much every thing he ever did on Stax
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
i like michael jacksons aint no sunshine best (really).

They're all good. It's the nature of Bill Withers best tunes that any old mug with a voice can do a job on them. Withers is THE most underrated soul songwriter ever imo.

I mentioned the Tempts one here cos it fits the weird soul ballads remit.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Semi off-topic but I really like the latest David Toop album "Sound Body" (global minimal/onkyo/new London silence/reductionist influenced improv basically). Easily one of the most listened to albums for me released this year, and in part incredibly beautiful, surprisingly narrative...
 

Guybrush

Dittohead
... I was sick and tired of the way soul ballads had been dismissed as romantic escapist drivel over the years by intellectuals of all persuasions and colours and then ended up being packaged by record companies as generic fuck soundtracks. ...

Problem is, a lot of soul is woefully generic. Moreover, I find the opposite view more common: soul as the supposed spiritual apogee of Western music. That I find silly, even though Gumdrops is right in that a lot of the nuances probably are lost to contemporary listeners. Having said that, that tracklisting is pretty neat. So, is it uncanny soul, futuristic soul, or heartfelt soul we are speaking of? Either way, there are choices in abundance. Isaac Hayes’ cover of «By the Time I Get to Phoenix» (I prefer the abridged version) is lovely, Marvin Gaye’s «Anna’s Song» (from the Here, My Dear album mentioned earlier) is yer typical make-out jam but great all the same; if Mr Fingers is allowed, I would definitely add Bou Khan’s «Magic», too.
 

stevied

Well-known member
Apologies for not replying to this thread at the time. But thanks to all who made suggestions. In compiling these 2 CDs, I reckon Toop set the bar high, so I think it`s harder than one might think to come up with songs of comparable quality, especially if you don`t, like me, have a serious knowledge of the music. Anyway, from this list we could add :

1. The Chi-Lites as Crackerjack says. The best track for me, though, is "Coldest Day of My Life" : fabulous orchestration + Seagulls.

2. Five great suggestions from Gumdrops : Marvin Gaye`s "When Did You Stop Loving Me, When Did I Stop Loving You". But almost all the songs on Here, My Dear album, a Toop favourite, I believe, fit the remit here; Stevie Wonder`s "Creepin`"; Funkadelic`s "I`ll Stay"; Parliament`s "All your Goodies are Gone". A couple of alternatives here are (You're A Fish & I'm A) Water Sign from MotorBooty Affair and You Scared The Lovin' Outta Me by Funkadelic. I prefer the debut album from Syreeta but "Cause We`ve Ended as Lovers" from SW Presents Syreeta is a superb ballad and probably the best choice.

3. Bill Wither`s got a mention here, so how about "Make A Smile For Me" from the +Justments album. This one has been reissued on CD as far as I know.

4. Not mentioned on this thread but stuff that I have come up with since :

"Island Letter" or "Aht Uh Mi Hed" from Inspiration Information by Shuggie Otis (love the spelling on the latter).

"Didn't I"; "Listen To My Song"; "Sure Know How To Love Me"; "Such a Night". All by Darondo who`s voice switches between Al Green and Sly Stone but nonetheless works on its own level.

"Sometimes it Snows In April" by Prince (lest we forget how good he once was).

"Out With The Boys" by Mandrill. Someone else also suggested I check "Gilly Hines" and "Love Song".

"I have No Choice" by Black Nasty on Stax.

"My Mistake" by Black Merda.

"In the Rain" by the Dramatics.

"Star of the Story" by Heatwave.

"Not On The Outside" or "Sunday" by Sylvia. At times I hear Lee Hazlewood refracted in the words and music of Sylvia`s Pillow Talk album from `73.

"Brown Baby" by Diana Ross from Touch me in the Morning.

Thanks!
 
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henry s

Street Fighting Man
always thought the Tashan track was the odd one out on that comp...too rough, compressed...who were these guys, anyway?...I had never heard of them until I purchased this...
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
tashan was one of the soul artists on def jam in the 80s... just one guy. generally thought to be one of if not THE inventor of street soul... (alyson williams should also be checked out though)
 

henry s

Street Fighting Man
hmmm...the picture of Tashan in the liner notes put me in mind of Full Force, so "street soul" is certainly appropos...but, street soul in the boudoir?
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
What about...

Curtis Mayfield - After Sex (from the Lets Do It Again soundtrack)

If we're talking Isaac Hayes its got to be You've Lost That Loving Feeling

And he produced the Soul Children - What Is She To You? (great, bile fuelled version of a Withers song)

A more obscure stax track: Luther Ingram - Home Don't Seem Like A Home

Bobby Womack - I'm Through (and maybe Woman's Gotta Have It, my all time fave soul track)

Maybe outside the boundaries of soul, but Little Willy John's version of Fever is superbly eerie.

And from the other end of the soul spectrum... The System - You Are In My System

Northern Soul is a whole other universe of heartbreak, but mostly too driving to fit under 'ballads'. Shame.


As an aside on Toop - I've read Ocean Of Sound and didn't really get it. But I joined rock's back pages last week to read something else, and I was hunting around, and found all this great stuff he'd written for the Face in the 80s on Electro and NY synth soul. I get him now. Wicked writer.

The Temptations did a fantastic cover of Ain't No Sunshine - ambient soul before anyone coined the term.

You could do a whole set of Ain't No Sunshine versions, getting more and more strung out as you go along. You heard that Kieth Hudson dub 'Satan Side'? - that would be the last track played ;)
 
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