rasta and catholicism

M

mms

sometimes
does anyone know a definitive answer for rastas sometimes unapproving views about catholicism?
is it rule from the earth in opposition to the living god thru the pope, tacit support for the invasion of Abyssinia? The Catholic Church's part in slavery, Babylon based Christianity or the meme of old protestantism filtering through?
 
N

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
pauspafke.jpg


Beats me man.
 
N

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
:rolleyes:

I'm sorry I couldn't resist. I will make an effort to seriously consider the question at the top of this thread.
 
matt b

matt b

Indexing all opinion
rasta's aren't fans of organised christianity (false gods and all that), but i think they dislike catholicism in particular because it supported mussolini's invasion of ethiopia, which led to the exile of haile selassie.

as with most things rasta, i doubt you'll find a definitive explanation


Anthony B 'Fire Pon Rome'- "Black people don't get weary/ Dem tek off the shackles an face we/ But still we under mental slavery / Fire pon Rome/ Fi Pope Paul an him scissors an comb/ Black people waan go home/ A Mount Zion a di righteous throne"

(not that this helps ;))
 
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STN

STN

sou'wester
I thought it just revolved around the Pope being seen as an attempt at a denial of Selassie's divinity and the head of an organisation (supposedly) hostile to Rasta and it's values. I guess it's also tied to the idea of Rome representing the ultimate enslaver/oppressor.

There's plenty of tunes slamming the Queen and I've always felt (perhaps wrongly) that this was down to her role as head of the CofE.

I remember reading somewhere that the Pope had spoken (possibly even in Ethiopa or JA) during a storm and that lightning had nearly struck his podium. There is a quote from Peter Tosh saying something like 'Jah lick him down'.
 
matt b

matt b

Indexing all opinion
"It [Rastafarianism] accused Christianity of putting a white God before black people for their worship, the same white God (they said) which supported the slavemasters during slavery and which supports the capitalist system."

"Roman Catholics became anathema after the Pope blessed Italian troops on their way to invade Ethiopia."


from: http://www.teacherscollege.edu/centers/cifas/drugsandsociety/news/gj_jg_20010221_1.html

interestingly, marcus garvey was a catholic (http://www.thirdfield.com/new/religion.html)
 
M

mms

sometimes
matt b said:
"It [Rastafarianism] accused Christianity of putting a white God before black people for their worship, the same white God (they said) which supported the slavemasters during slavery and which supports the capitalist system."

"Roman Catholics became anathema after the Pope blessed Italian troops on their way to invade Ethiopia."


from: http://www.teacherscollege.edu/centers/cifas/drugsandsociety/news/gj_jg_20010221_1.html

interestingly, marcus garvey was a catholic (http://www.thirdfield.com/new/religion.html)
Click to expand...

ok so pretty much all those things i mentioned.

i think garvey became a catholic very late in life, as did bob marley before his death too.
 
matt b

matt b

Indexing all opinion
STN said:
I remember reading somewhere that the Pope had spoken (possibly even in Ethiopa or JA) during a storm and that lightning had nearly struck his podium. There is a quote from Peter Tosh saying something like 'Jah lick him down'.
Click to expand...

i'd love to know more about that incident.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
mms said:
ok so pretty much all those things i mentioned.

i think garvey became a catholic very late in life, as did bob marley before his death too.
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Wasn't Marley a late convert to the ethiopian orthodox church rather than catholicism?

Good thread tho. I now have a few lyrics bubbling on the tip of my tongue, but can't quite remember them.
 
D

dHarry

Well-known member
roasted pope

This is a classic of religious tolerance - Lee Perry's Jah-Jah Ah Natty Dread on Return Of The Super-ape:

"Because the pope is a bald-head,
But Jah-Jah ah natty dread,
Gonna set a bonfire,
Gonna put him on the wire"

(- could be the theme song for the Rev. Ian Paisley!)
 
M

mms

sometimes
john eden said:
Wasn't Marley a late convert to the ethiopian orthodox church rather than catholicism?

Good thread tho. I now have a few lyrics bubbling on the tip of my tongue, but can't quite remember them.
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yes you are right i am wrong.

Here is another point about the Ethiopian Orthodox, which might again have something to do with post war relationships with rome and Selassie's involvement with the organisation of national unity,'which is that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is not in communion with the See of Constantinople, since the Ethiopian Orthodox hold that Christ had a single nature, rather than the two natures taught by the churches in communion with Rome and Constantinople.

The Ethiopian Church was part of the Coptic Orthodox Church until 1959, when Cyril VI, Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of All Africa granted it autocephalos status, under the Archbishop of Axum and Patriarch Catholicos of All Ethiopia (also known as the Abuna).'


there are loads of bun down rome lyrics, some of them are funny, like bafflin smoke signal about the choosing of a new pope.
 
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Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
mms said:
Here is another point about the Ethiopian Orthodox, which might again have something to do with post war relationships with rome and Selassie's involvement with the organisation of national unity,'which is that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is not in communion with the See of Constantinople, since the Ethiopian Orthodox hold that Christ had a single nature, rather than the two natures taught by the churches in communion with Rome and Constantinople.
Click to expand...

IIRC, the Ethiopian church is actually older the catholicism and certainly predates the establishment of the see of constantinople. I believe there's quite a history of conflict there, as with other apostate christianities. Don't have any references to hand though.
 
M

mms

sometimes
2stepfan said:
IIRC, the Ethiopian church is actually older the catholicism and certainly predates the establishment of the see of constantinople. I believe there's quite a history of conflict there, as with other apostate christianities. Don't have any references to hand though.
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sure i knew that, the little history of the church and ethiopia it seems quite fascinating, the conflict is to do with an argument of over single nature of christ. there is quite alot of interesting stuff about the ark of the covenant under the church our lady mary of zion too.
 
STN

STN

sou'wester
matt b said:
i'd love to know more about that incident.
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I think it's mentioned in Tim White's biography of Bob Marley, of which I no longer have a copy. It could of course be wholly untrue (or incorrectly remembered by me).
 
D

DannyL

Wild Horses
IIRC, the Ethiopian church is actually older the catholicism and certainly predates the establishment of the see of constantinople.
Click to expand...

Not sure of the origiin point of Catholicism to contrast the Ethiopian Church with but that's broadly true. One of the things that interfered with a "unified" Christianity was the spread of Islam - the Ethiopian Church initially had sporadic contact with it's mother churches (in Alexandria and elsewhere) but this fizzled out over the centuries. When the Portuguese got there in the 16th Century they found a unique variant on Christianity.

How this feeds into later Rasta hatred for the Catholic Church, I've no idea.
 
S

SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
wow, great article.

She's saying a lot!

Very true. I want to hear it now! Really hope its as good as it could be...

Never really listened to her before but liked her tearing up of pope pictures.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
It's interesting to consider what general Rasta attitudes to Rome might be given that, to Rastas, 'Babylon' is a byword for white colonialism, the 'powers that be', The Man, the godless, materialistic West - but this usage comes from the New Testament, when it was used (in much the same way) as a euphemism for Rome by early Christians. And now, of course, Rome - 'Bablyon' - is itself the seat of the Catholic Church, the biggest subdivision of Christianity.
 
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