Freestyle

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
There seems to be a lot of love for Freestyle over on the Pop Song of the Year thread, so let's give it its own thread! Obviously, it's one of the poppermost genres in history, and just mention of Debbie Deb or Lisa Lisa sends me into bouts of giddiness.

Sadly I don't know half enough about it, so let's pool knowledge here...

Someone on the other thread mentioned this blog: http://freestylebeats.blogspot.com/

which looks incredible.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I'm also interested in the crossover between freestyle and Chicago house...Liz Torres often gets mentioned in both contexts, it seems, and there's an eternally classic house track from Yvonne - 'There's a Party Going On' which harnesses all the raw energy I love about freestyle...
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
Obviously, it's one of the poppermost genres in history, and just mention of Debbie Deb or Lisa Lisa sends me into bouts of giddiness.

HAHA, that's exactly the reaction I have when freestyle is even mentioned as well..

Sometimes I think freestyle might be the perfect pop formula... The orchestral stabs, the Kraftwerk break, the 80s Latina babe singing clichéd love lyrics, that keyboard chime cadence that's in nearly EVERY. freakin. freestyle. song. that goes A B C G E (if the tune's in A minor that is... play it on a keyboard in quarternotes, you'll recognize it). As I think was pointed out on Ishkur's, it's pretty much Thee template for formulaic teen boy/girl-group pop (but I mean of course they copied it, freestyle was the apex of shallow, fun, populist, clubpop)... It almost represents everything I'm against in a way, but I can't even hate because it's just so damn fun and sublime...
 
As far as Yvonne "There's A Party Going On" - go straight for "Omar's Oh-Oh-El Beats" - awesome cut up edits by Omar Santana.

For me the coolest thing about freestyle is the 30 seconds where the engineer goes wild with tape edits (or later Emulator). The king of this was Chep (the Dominican) Nunez (the baddest latin in manhattan), also Diamond 2, Latin Rascals, Omar Santana etc etc.

Freestyle later got overtaken by house - first there were freestyle tracks with the odd house mix on the 12, then the house mix became the A1 track, and finally the freestyle mix disappeared. This is what was happening by the time of "There's A Party Going On".
Biggest hit which few people remember the original freestyle version - "You're Gonna Miss Me" by Turntable Orchestra. Most people remember it as house or garage but the original mix is pure freestyle.

Then there was the more hardcore/dubby side of freestyle from people like Todd Terry (as Orange Lemon, Masters At Work, Fingertrips) and Frankie Bones et al.

Labels to check: Cutting, The Fever (catch it), Metropolitan, Midnight Sun, Next Pateau (just for C-Bank).

The Best Of Latin Hip Hop is a good intro for UK people because not much freestyle got released over here (basically just Shannon and Joyce Sims).

Pet Shop Boys and (even more so) New Order were highly influenced by freestyle - New Order even got Arthur Baker to produce for them (Baker's ex-wife Tina B's "Honey To A Bee" is a classic).

As far as Chicago House crossing over with freestyle, I would say that the NY scene was overtaken by house. Not many tracks came out of Chicago with a freestyle (electro) beat, just a few like Chip E's "If You Only Knew".
So not that much influence of freestyle on house, only the other way round I think.

I'm also interested in the crossover between freestyle and Chicago house...Liz Torres often gets mentioned in both contexts, it seems

Possibly you are mixing up Liz Torres with Judy Torres?
 
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adruu

This Is It
If someone knew of any Freestyle & Bollywood hybrids you could be a God to me...and maybe others.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Freestyle shares a sort of production ethos with a lot of the Indian pop music I've heard, no?
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Brilliant answer Edward - thanks. Reckon I must've got my Torreses mixed up, yep. :confused:

I'm going to have to check some of that stuff out and get back to you - lots of it is new to me.

Is Joyce Sims the same Joyce Sims who had a 1987 UK hit with "Come Into My Life"?

There seems to be a lot of crossover in style between Italo-disco and freestyle (both obv favourites of the Pet Shop Boys and other UK synth artists). Were there any collaborations?
 
Well I'm tryng not to be patronising but Italo disco was frm Italy and freestyle was from NYC so not much crossover interms of artists and producers.
However, the label Emergency licensed a few Italo records before signing Shannon and others.

I keep meaning to do a freestyle mix, I've got a bit of vinyl....
I'm sitting next to my record collection so I'll write down a few favourites for you:

Bad Boy Orchestra - Hip Hop Salsa - Smokin'
Shannon - Let The Music Play - Emergency
Monet - Give In To Me - Ligossa
Xena - On The Upside - Emergency
C M Dance - Off The Hook - Midnight Sun
Soft Touch (Hashim) - Crime Of Passion - Cutting
Giggles - Hot Spot - Cutting
Amoretto - Clave Rocks - PKO
Pajama Party - Yo No Se - 23 West
C Bank - Perfect - Next Plateau

actually I could go on for hours.......
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Well I'm tryng not to be patronising but Italo disco was frm Italy and freestyle was from NYC so not much crossover interms of artists and producers.
However, the label Emergency licensed a few Italo records before signing Shannon and others.
Well, I feel jolly offended now... ;)

The question was really prompted by the New Order/Arthur Baker collab you mentioned (also, a lot of famous 'Italo' records were from Canada etc, weren't they?) - just thought Italo + freestyle would have made a fabulous mixture.

Thanks for all the recommendations - will go forth and check them out.
 
I guess Nova "You Can Do It" on Emergency is smewhere between Italo & Freestyle in feeling, as is "Non Line" by I.M.S. on the same label (and recenty bootlegged).


By the way, all the vocal tracks above I would generally recommend getting the 12" for 50c somewhere and listening to the dub mix.
If you just download the a-side from somewhere the vocals will drive you crazy after a while.
I know this because I am listening to Sa-Fire right now. Great production, weak vox.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
company b
expose

i'm sure all the freestyle i've heard is the lame kind that they'd put on compilations. where did you get all your records, edward? are they originals?
 
Yeah my records are originals.

I got them from George from the Bronx when he had his "records bought" store near the Williamsburg bridge in NYC, Music & Video Exchange bargain basement in London, Community Thrift & Amoeba in San Francisco. Most of them I got in SF, all marked down to 99c in Amoeba. SF thrift stores were good for freestyle.
Most of them I got around 1999-2000, all were cheap!


I think they put good tracks on lots of comps but always the vocal version which can get wearing, you need to get 12s for the dub mixes in my opinion.

If you don't like freestyle comps, maybe you just don't like freestyle?
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
i do like freestyle comps! i just wanted to know if there was a larger freestyle world out there i was missing out on.

wish i'd been around for "records bought"...
 
If you are in NYC, there are still more freestyle records rotting there than in the rest of the world put together. Go to the Thing in Green Point or drive out to Jersey and go to any mom n pop record store, there will be a box of old freestyle that's been there for 15 years....
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
yeah i was actually in the country in Rhinebeck recently and there was a thriftstore FULL of freestyle and other late 80s kitschy r&b/dance type stuff. i kick myself for not buying some up.
 
Yes I would kick you too.
Always buy records.
Later you will hear them and say "I had that in my hand in a store but it was $1.50 and all the other records were only $1" and you will look on eBay and it will be $20.
;-)

If in doubt, get it!
 

petergunn

plywood violin
If you are in NYC, there are still more freestyle records rotting there than in the rest of the world put together. Go to the Thing in Green Point or drive out to Jersey and go to any mom n pop record store, there will be a box of old freestyle that's been there for 15 years....

yup

you can still trip over freestyle here...

i'd say one afternoon at the Thing and you'd be loaded down, if you knew what to look for...

i'm not to into it myself, tho "when i hear music" is one of my favorite songs to DJ, tho sometimes i hear people say that Pretty Tony stuff is not really freestyle, but is labeled as such due the artist's name on "it's automatic" (another jam!) being "Freestyle"...
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
OMG!... Damn suddenly I wish I were in NY

Some great recommendations in this thread...

I'll second Lisa Lisa, Sa- Fire, Shannon, Sweet Sensation, Expose, Debbie Deb, C Bank, Company B, Cover Girls, etc...


I love:
Debbie Deb - Lookout Weekend *whoa, after giving this a listen again yesterday, I think this might have become my favorite song (for now)
Debbie Deb - When I Hear Music
Debbie Deb - I'm Searchin
Company B - Fascinated
Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam - Can You Feel The Beat
Lisa Lisa Cult Jam - Lost In Emotion (kind of a freestyle doowop song!)
Exposé - Point Of No Return
Pretty Poison - Catch Me (I'm Falling)
Sa-Fire - Let me Be the One
etc, etc, etc...
 
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