Documentary: Hiphop Tanzania (youtube)
- Thread starter zhao
- Start date
ok me and dj Latif just finished watching this. not an amazing doc., because a large portion of it they talk about the politics and life, but not so much about the styles of music, and the production, like Latif is saying that at first Tanzanian hiphop is very much influenced by US sounds, and later realized why are we copying America when hiphop originally came from Africa? and started using more traditional African melodies to sample and the style became known as Bongo Flava. but pretty cool to see some of the MC's in action, and the 2 10 year old rappers... and about 1/3 way through part 3, the sweetest fucking track by DJ Cool Para...
well that statement should not be taken at face value. i mean it in a broad sense, but i absolutely believe it.
i suppose an overly simplified chain of musical events would look something like this:
slaves bring african rhythms to America -- work songs -- blues -- gospel -- jazz -- funk -- soul -- disco -- hiphop.
i've said it before and i'll say it again: modern popular music of the 20th century is all of it, predominantly black / african in origin. rock'n'roll, techno, all of it. with no exceptions i can think of.
zhao, thanks for the speedy response
its funny because this is what i was guessing that you meant, but i just wanted to make sure. I generally try to stay away from this sort of trajectory because i think that it tends to oversimplify the development of distinct musical forms in very distinct geographical and temporal settings. I also think that this sort of tendency to link any "black" cultural production in the americas directly to africa can be a dangerous path to take towards thinking about culture and innovation, etc. I dont disagree that rock and roll, techno etc are of black origin-- this is well documented and hard to dispute-- but i think creating a link between the black experience in a place like detroit (where to my knowledge techno arose) and that in africa tends to de-emphasize the specific contributions of black people in the "new world" to the creation of various musics around the globe. indeed i think in a lot of ways these assertions are based on overly essentialized notions of "blackness" that dont really (in my opinion) add much to an understanding of how music develops. also, i know you are simplifying, but my simplified trajectory would certainly include Jamaican and Nuyorican musics in much more prominent positions than disco or even soul music. just a thought, i'd love to hear what you think.
its funny because this is what i was guessing that you meant, but i just wanted to make sure. I generally try to stay away from this sort of trajectory because i think that it tends to oversimplify the development of distinct musical forms in very distinct geographical and temporal settings. I also think that this sort of tendency to link any "black" cultural production in the americas directly to africa can be a dangerous path to take towards thinking about culture and innovation, etc. I dont disagree that rock and roll, techno etc are of black origin-- this is well documented and hard to dispute-- but i think creating a link between the black experience in a place like detroit (where to my knowledge techno arose) and that in africa tends to de-emphasize the specific contributions of black people in the "new world" to the creation of various musics around the globe. indeed i think in a lot of ways these assertions are based on overly essentialized notions of "blackness" that dont really (in my opinion) add much to an understanding of how music develops. also, i know you are simplifying, but my simplified trajectory would certainly include Jamaican and Nuyorican musics in much more prominent positions than disco or even soul music. just a thought, i'd love to hear what you think.
N
nomadologist
Guest
As the 90s proved, pan-Africanism can be dangerous. But in terms of formal innovation and music as "cultural production", all contemporary forms of popular music do share formal elements that very obviously originated in African-American musicS.
in terms of the role they played in the rise of hiphop? really? i'm not a historian by any means, but it seems to me all of the first wave hiphop i've heard (Big Apple Rapping for instance) all sound like Disco would be the direct precedent (with the odd dubby sounding track here and there). i could easily be wrong though, can you speak a bit about the relationship of Reggae and Latin (in context of NY) to the beginning of hiphop?
as far as afro-hiphop is concerned, it just sounds so right. i mean rap seems like it was invented for Swahili. or Senegalise or Ghanian. and the sweet melodicism they bring to it... in my mind it's a tradition exported, making its way all the way around the world, gaining generations of experience, going through countless permutations, and finally coming home again to complete the circle. and it all sounds ABSOLUTELY WICKED.
thanks for the response,
i can probably say more about reggae in the development of hip hop than salsa or other latin musics, but the reason that I added the Nuyorican bit is for one because latinos played a key role in the development of early hip hop in new york, places like the south bronx were centers of diverse communities that included large numbers of caribbean and latino first and second generation immigrants, all of which were active in the early days of hip-hop--this kinda defies the idea of hip-hop as a purely "african american" artform. I also have seen some great footage at a talk given by Pop Master Fabel in Montreal a few years back that draws connections between salsa dancing in the 1970s and what would later come to be referred to as "breaking". - also, some initial googling turned up this book, which i havent read, but seems interesting (perticularly chapter 6)
From Bomba to Hip-Hop: Puerto Rican Culture and Latino Identity
By Juan Flores
probably worth a read to dig deeper into this question
As far as hip hop being related to reggae, my understanding is that Kool Herc brought the Jamaican soundsystem model to new york and turned people on to the idea of mixing records on 2 turntables, which led to people rapping over the resulting combinations of beats, pretty similar in a lot of ways to what was happening with Jamaican music at the time with the era of the deejay in full swing. one of my favorite articulations of some of the many and often pretty confusing connections between hip hop and reggae is wayne&wax's writing (in general, but specifically) about the zunguzeng theme (i like his little mix too) check it out if you havent: http://wayneandwax.com/?p=128
just some thoughts, I'm not a historian either, i have just always been curious about hip hop's relationship with its (less obvious) relatives. of course, its also important to recognize the connection between early hip hop and "african american" artists like the last poets, gil scott heron, watts prophets, melvin van peebles etc.
and about african hip-hop, ive always had a hard time getting into it, I've heard a good deal of rap in wolof, but never could really get into it because i dont understand the words
i can probably say more about reggae in the development of hip hop than salsa or other latin musics, but the reason that I added the Nuyorican bit is for one because latinos played a key role in the development of early hip hop in new york, places like the south bronx were centers of diverse communities that included large numbers of caribbean and latino first and second generation immigrants, all of which were active in the early days of hip-hop--this kinda defies the idea of hip-hop as a purely "african american" artform. I also have seen some great footage at a talk given by Pop Master Fabel in Montreal a few years back that draws connections between salsa dancing in the 1970s and what would later come to be referred to as "breaking". - also, some initial googling turned up this book, which i havent read, but seems interesting (perticularly chapter 6)
From Bomba to Hip-Hop: Puerto Rican Culture and Latino Identity
By Juan Flores
probably worth a read to dig deeper into this question
As far as hip hop being related to reggae, my understanding is that Kool Herc brought the Jamaican soundsystem model to new york and turned people on to the idea of mixing records on 2 turntables, which led to people rapping over the resulting combinations of beats, pretty similar in a lot of ways to what was happening with Jamaican music at the time with the era of the deejay in full swing. one of my favorite articulations of some of the many and often pretty confusing connections between hip hop and reggae is wayne&wax's writing (in general, but specifically) about the zunguzeng theme (i like his little mix too) check it out if you havent: http://wayneandwax.com/?p=128
just some thoughts, I'm not a historian either, i have just always been curious about hip hop's relationship with its (less obvious) relatives. of course, its also important to recognize the connection between early hip hop and "african american" artists like the last poets, gil scott heron, watts prophets, melvin van peebles etc.
and about african hip-hop, ive always had a hard time getting into it, I've heard a good deal of rap in wolof, but never could really get into it because i dont understand the words
N
nomadologist
Guest
This thread is like a 300-level seminar in "Topics on the Diaspora" in the sociology department of a liberal arts school. Not that there's anything wrong with that...
rockypoppy2
wtf?
zhao you need to listen to x-plastaz - maasai hip hop
good links and 411 triz. yeah the salsa flavor is def in suma them oldschool jams. and yeah now that i think about it, deejays did their thing with 2 tables and a mic in JA before Kool Herc huh.
not knowing the language on African joints don't bother me none whatsoever. the tunes are so damn nice! and it's not like i always know what ODB is slurring about or what Doom is muttering under his breath either.
dat sum straight dope right dare
not knowing the language on African joints don't bother me none whatsoever. the tunes are so damn nice! and it's not like i always know what ODB is slurring about or what Doom is muttering under his breath either.
dat sum straight dope right dare
Gavin
booty bass intellectual
Haha, may this be the last time I link myself on this board: http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/pop_playground/bongoflava-the-primer.htm
Some of the links might even work still!
bongo-centric Kiswahili: Piga Makofi = Clap Your Hands!
Some of the links might even work still!
bongo-centric Kiswahili: Piga Makofi = Clap Your Hands!
Gavin
booty bass intellectual
nice!
Ok, let me pick through and zshare some stuff...
Dammit, this board is going to make me give up all my secrets...
i'll give up mine as well. did you grab that Manya record i posted? will put up more.
but don't worry, there are like, 3 people expressing open interest, and probably another dozen secretly paying attention to this thread...
just connect tape deck to computer with RCA cable and record into something like Garageband! (i never used Garageband but it should work no?)
Gavin
booty bass intellectual
Yes, thank you!
but don't worry, there are like, 3 people expressing open interest, and probably another dozen secretly paying attention to this thread...
[/quote]
It's those secret dozen that worry me... Like I'm going to run into some laptop DJ with my stash and have to pick a fight over liking the same music as me!
Haha, I'm not that hopeless, but my tape recorder is -- recording is about all it does decently (and sometimes not even that -- pre-emptive sorry to mixtape partner, whoever you are!). I used SonicFoundry Acid.
ok no problem. PM shall be our MO from now on!
(i feel better that way too -- why should leeches get the fruit of our hunt?)
N
nomadologist
Guest
i would complain about this, but i'm way too lazy to every bother putting anything up. so i guess it's only fair.