Worst Mistake in History of Human Race

zhao

there are no accidents
the Jarred Diamond article below is too important to stay buried in page 14 of some political thread. (obviously those who have joined in the discussion with me before feel free to ignore)
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i have been interested in the fundamental claims (if not the concrete solutions) of Anarcho-Primitivism for some time, and unsurprisingly, every time i bring up these ideas, there is only resistance -- nothing but knee-jerk dismissal of anything resembling the Noble Savage (stanley kubrick you listenin?). but consider the opposite: humans have ALWAYS lived the way we do now, with slavery and systematic oppression and heirarchy and power and subjugation and exploitation, even under drastically different conditions such as small population and abundance of resources, for millions of years.

is that believable if you really think about it?

agriculture (and with it the myriad of new forms which we call civilization) started roughly 10,000 years ago, in response to, as a necessity created by a drastic diminishing of natural vegetation -- a result of the last ice-age. there is ample evidence that prior to that, earth was exponentially more lush and abundant a place compared to the earth that we know.

but whether an egalitarian and peaceful paradise existed for 4 million years prior to the advent of language/power/civilization is not necessarily the main point; even though a reasonably good case for this has been made many times (the ancient myths and religions of ALL cultures, for instance). the important thing is that these claims allow us to open up to the idea that the way we live today may not be the only way, that it may prove to be a very recent development.

the important thing is to realize that what we believe today about ourselves and our history is tainted by civilisation itself, its ideology, and its agendas -- and that it may not be nearly as rational or factual as we think.

the story of our violent and competitive ancesters is dominant in our art and culture, and the representation of our past in the image of our present may be completely false.

the way we look at the world and ourselves, it may be a very limited view, which excludes multiple other ways of perceiving and understanding, which are all just as valid, if not much more valid.

what i am interested in is NOT bemoaning how the world sucks today in comparisson to some edenic, prehistoric perfection, NOR am i advocating a return to gathering and hunting - a "natural" way of life (whatever the fuck that means); what i AM suggesting, however, is that the only way to envision a better future is to strip away the lies and illusions that we have been living under - the myths perpetrated by civilization - and to realize that human potential is much wider and bigger than our culture would have us believe, and that maybe we haven't ALWAYS lived the lonely dog-eat-dog way we do now. only when we break from these limited and limiting traps which define us can we possibly find another way of existing.

if we deny that there are other ways of life, if we refuse to accept the possibility that we once were different, if we do not believe that our specie is CAPABLE of living peacefully, gracefully, then what better future can there be?
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so without further ado, here is the Essay by world reknowned historian, biologist, archaeologist Jarred Diamond, in which i find much vindication for these "outlandish" and "absurd" ideas.

PDF of entire article with illustrations here.

also copied below:
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race

By Jared Diamond
University of California at Los Angeles Medical School


To science we owe dramatic changes in our smug self-image. Astronomy taught us that our earth isn’t the center of the universe but merely one of billions of heavenly bodies. From biology we learned that we weren’t specially created by God but evolved along with millions of other species. Now archaeology is demolishing another sacred belief: that human history over the past million years has been a long tale of progress. In particular, recent discoveries suggest that the adoption of agriculture, supposedly our most decisive step toward a better life, was in many ways a catastrophe from which we have never recovered. With agriculture came the gross social and sexual inequality, the disease and despotism, that curse our existence.

At first, the evidence against this revisionist interpretation will strike twentieth century Americans as irrefutable. We’re better off in almost every respect than people of the Middle Ages, who in turn had it easier than cavemen, who in turn were better off than apes. Just count our advantages. We enjoy the most abundant and varied foods, the best tools and material goods, some of the longest and healthiest lives, in history. Most of us are safe from starvation and predators. We get our energy from oil and machines, not from our sweat. What neo-Luddite among us would trade his life for that of a medieval peasant, a caveman, or an ape?

For most of our history we supported ourselves by hunting and gathering: we hunted wild animals and foraged for wild plants. It’s a life that philosophers have traditionally regarded as nasty, brutish, and short. Since no food is grown and little is stored, there is (in this view) no respite from the struggle that starts anew each day to find wild foods and avoid starving. Our escape from this misery was facilitated only 10,000 years ago, when in different parts of the world people began to domesticate plants and animals. The agricultural revolution spread until today it’s nearly universal and few tribes of hunter-gatherers survive.

From the progressivist perspective on which I was brought up, to ask "Why did almost all our hunter-gatherer ancestors adopt agriculture?" is silly. Of course they adopted it because agriculture is an efficient way to get more food for less work. Planted crops yield far more tons per acre than roots and berries. Just imagine a band of savages, exhausted from searching for nuts or chasing wild animals, suddenly grazing for the first time at a fruit-laden orchard or a pasture full of sheep. How many milliseconds do you think it would take them to appreciate the advantages of agriculture?

The progressivist party line sometimes even goes so far as to credit agriculture with the remarkable flowering of art that has taken place over the past few thousand years. Since crops can be stored, and since it takes less time to pick food from a garden than to find it in the wild, agriculture gave us free time that hunter-gatherers never had. Thus it was agriculture that enabled us to build the Parthenon and compose the B-minor Mass.

While the case for the progressivist view seems overwhelming, it’s hard to prove. How do you show that the lives of people 10,000 years ago got better when they abandoned hunting and gathering for farming? Until recently, archaeologists had to resort to indirect tests, whose results (surprisingly) failed to support the progressivist view. Here’s one example of an indirect test: Are twentieth century hunter-gatherers really worse off than farmers? Scattered throughout the world, several dozen groups of so-called primitive people, like the Kalahari bushmen, continue to support themselves that way. It turns out that these people have plenty of leisure time, sleep a good deal, and work less hard than their farming neighbors. For instance, the average time devoted each week to obtaining food is only 12 to 19 hours for one group of Bushmen, 14 hours or less for the Hadza nomads of Tanzania. One Bushman, when asked why he hadn’t emulated neighboring tribes by adopting agriculture, replied, "Why should we, when there are so many mongongo nuts in the world?"

While farmers concentrate on high-carbohydrate crops like rice and potatoes, the mix of wild plants and animals in the diets of surviving hunter-gatherers provides more protein and a bettter balance of other nutrients. In one study, the Bushmen’s average daily food intake (during a month when food was plentiful) was 2,140 calories and 93 grams of protein, considerably greater than the recommended daily allowance for people of their size. It’s almost inconceivable that Bushmen, who eat 75 or so wild plants, could die of starvation the way hundreds of thousands of Irish farmers and their families did during the potato famine of the 1840s.

So the lives of at least the surviving hunter-gatherers aren’t nasty and brutish, even though farmes have pushed them into some of the world’s worst real estate. But modern hunter-gatherer societies that have rubbed shoulders with farming societies for thousands of years don’t tell us about conditions before the agricultural revolution. The progressivist view is really making a claim about the distant past: that the lives of primitive people improved when they switched from gathering to farming. Archaeologists can date that switch by distinguishing remains of wild plants and animals from those of domesticated ones in prehistoric garbage dumps.

How can one deduce the health of the prehistoric garbage makers, and thereby directly test the progressivist view? That question has become answerable only in recent years, in part through the newly emerging techniques of paleopathology, the study of signs of disease in the remains of ancient peoples.

In some lucky situations, the paleopathologist has almost as much material to study as a pathologist today. For example, archaeologists in the Chilean deserts found well preserved mummies whose medical conditions at time of death could be determined by autopsy (Discover, October). And feces of long-dead Indians who lived in dry caves in Nevada remain sufficiently well preserved to be examined for hookworm and other parasites.

Usually the only human remains available for study are skeletons, but they permit a surprising number of deductions. To begin with, a skeleton reveals its owner’s sex, weight, and approximate age. In the few cases where there are many skeletons, one can construct mortality tables like the ones life insurance companies use to calculate expected life span and risk of death at any given age. Paleopathologists can also calculate growth rates by measuring bones of people of different ages, examine teeth for enamel defects (signs of childhood malnutrition), and recognize scars left on bones by anemia, tuberculosis, leprosy, and other diseases.

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zhao

there are no accidents
One straight forward example of what paleopathologists have learned from skeletons concerns historical changes in height. Skeletons from Greece and Turkey show that the average height of hunger-gatherers toward the end of the ice ages was a generous 5’ 9" for men, 5’ 5" for women. With the adoption of agriculture, height crashed, and by 3000 B. C. had reached a low of only 5’ 3" for men, 5’ for women. By classical times heights were very slowly on the rise again, but modern Greeks and Turks have still not regained the average height of their distant ancestors.

Another example of paleopathology at work is the study of Indian skeletons from burial mounds in the Illinois and Ohio river valleys. At Dickson Mounds, located near the confluence of the Spoon and Illinois rivers, archaeologists have excavated some 800 skeletons that paint a picture of the health changes that occurred when a hunter-gatherer culture gave way to intensive maize farming around A. D. 1150. Studies by George Armelagos and his colleagues then at the University of Massachusetts show these early farmers paid a price for their new-found livelihood. Compared to the hunter-gatherers who preceded them, the farmers had a nearly 50 per cent increase in enamel defects indicative of malnutrition, a fourfold increase in iron-deficiency anemia (evidenced bya bone condition called porotic hyperostosis), a theefold rise in bone lesions reflecting infectious disease in general, and an increase in degenerative conditions of the spine, probably reflecting a lot of hard physical labor. "Life expectancy at birth in the pre-agricultural community was bout twenty-six years," says Armelagos, "but in the post-agricultural community it was nineteen years. So these episodes of nutritional stress and infectious disease were seriously affecting their ability to survive."

The evidence suggests that the Indians at Dickson Mounds, like many other primitive peoples, took up farming not by choice but from necessity in order to feed their constantly growing numbers. "I don’t think most hunger-gatherers farmed until they had to, and when they switched to farming they traded quality for quantity," says Mark Cohen of the State University of New York at Plattsburgh, co-editor with Armelagos, of one of the seminal books in the field, Paleopathology at the Origins of Agriculture. "When I first started making that argument ten years ago, not many people agreed with me. Now it’s become a respectable, albeit controversial, side of the debate."

There are at least three sets of reasons to explain the findings that agriculture was bad for health. First, hunter-gatherers enjoyed a varied diet, while early farmers obtained most of their food from one or a few starchy crops. The farmers gained cheap calories at the cost of poor nutrition. (today just three high-carbohydrate plants–wheat, rice, and corn–provide the bulk of the calories consumed by the human species, yet each one is deficient in certain vitamins or amino acids essential to life.) Second, because of dependence on a limited number of crops, farmers ran the risk of starvation if one crop failed. Finally, the mere fact that agriculture encouraged people to clump together in crowded societies, many of which then carried on trade with other crowded societies, led to the spread of parasites and infectious disease. (Some archaeologists think it was the crowding, rather than agriculture, that promoted disease, but this is a chicken-and-egg argument, because crowding encourages agriculture and vice versa.) Epidemics couldn’t take hold when populations were scattered in small bands that constantly shifted camp. Tuberculosis and diarrheal disease had to await the rise of farming, measles and bubonic plague the appearance of large cities.

Besides malnutrition, starvation, and epidemic diseases, farming helped bring another curse upon humanity: deep class divisions. Hunter-gatherers have little or no stored food, and no concentrated food sources, like an orchard or a herd of cows: they live off the wild plants and animals they obtain each day. Therefore, there can be no kings, no class of social parasites who grow fat on food seized from others. Only in a farming population could a healthy, non-producing élite set itself above the disease-ridden masses. Skeletons from Greek tombs at Mycenae c. 1500 B. C. suggest that royals enjoyed a better diet than commoners, since the royal skeletons were two or three inches taller and had better teeth (on the average, one instead of six cavities or missing teeth). Among Chilean mummies from c. A. D. 1000, the élite were distinguished not only by ornaments and gold hair clips but also by a fourfold lower rate of bone lesions caused by disease.
Similar contrasts in nutrition and health persist on a global scale today. To people in rich countries like the U. S., it sounds ridiculous to extol the virtues of hunting and gathering. But Americans are an élite, dependent on oil and minerals that must often be iimproted from countries with poorer health and nutrition. If one could choose between being a peasant farmer in Ethiopia or a bushman gatherer in the Kalahari, which do you think would be the better choice?

Farming may have encouraged inequality between the sexes, as well. Freed from the need to transport their babies during a nomadic existence, and under pressure to produce more hands to till the fields, farming women tended to have more frequent pregnancies than their hunter-gatherer counterparts–with consequent drains on their health. Among the Chilean mummies for example, more women than men had bone lesions from infectious disease.

Women in agricultural societies were sometimes made beasts of burden. In New Guinea farming communities today I often see women staggering under loads of vegetables and firewood while the men walk empty-handed. Once while on a field trip there studying birds, I offered to pay some villagers to carry supplies from an airstrip to my mountain camp. The heaviest item was a 110-pound bag of rice, which I lashed to a pole and assigned to a team of four men to shoulder together. When I eventually caught up with the villagers, the men were carrying light loads, while one small woman weighing less than the bag of rice was bent under it, supporting its weight by a cord across her temples.

As for the claim that agriculture encouraged the flowering of art by providing us with leisure time, modern hunter-gatherers have at least as much free time as do farmers. The whole emphasis on leisure time as a critical factor seems to me misguided. Gorillas have had ample free time to build their own Parthenon, had they wanted to. While post-agricultural technological advances did make new art forms possible and preservation of art easier, great paintings and sculptures were already being produced by hunter-gatherers 15,000 years ago, and were still being produced as recently as the last century by such hunter-gatherers as some Eskimos and the Indians of the Pacific Northwest.

Thus with the advent of agriculture and élite became better off, but most people became worse off. Instead of swallowing the progressivist party line that we chose agriculture because it was good for us, we must ask how we got trapped by it despite its pitfalls.
One answer boils down to the adage "Might makes right." Farming could support many more people than hunting, albeit with a poorer quality of life. (Population densities of hunter-gatherers are rarely over on eperson per ten square miles, while farmers average 100 times that.) Partly, this is because a field planted entirely in edible crops lets one feed far more mouths than a forest with scattered edible plants. Partly, too, it’s because nomadic hunter-gatherers have to keep their children spaced at four-year intervals by infanticide and other means, since a mother must carry her toddler until it’s old enough to keep up with the adults. Because farm women don’t have that burden, they can and often do bear a child every two years.

As population densities of hunter-gatherers slowly rose at the end of the ice ages, bands had to choose between feeding more mouths by taking the first steps toward agriculture, or else finding ways to limit growth. Some bands chose the former solution, unable to anticipate the evils of farming, and seduced by the transient abundance they enjoyed until population growth caught up with increased food production. Such bands outbred and then drove off or killed the bands that chose to remain hunter-gatherers, because a hundred malnourished farmers can still outfight one healthy hunter. It’s not that hunter-gatherers abandonded their life style, but that those sensible enough not to abandon it were forced out of all areas except the ones farmers didn’t want.

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zhao

there are no accidents
at this point it’s instructive to recall the common complaint that archaeology is a luxury, concerned with the remote past, and offering no lessons for the present. Archaeologists studying the rise of farming have reconstructed a crucial stage at which we made the worst mistake in human history. Forced to choose between limiting population or trying to increase food production, we chose the latter and ended up with starvation, warfare, and tyranny.

Hunter-gatherers practiced the most successful and logest-lasting life style in human history. In contrast, we’re still struggling with the mess into which agriculture has tumbled us, and it’s unclear whether we can solve it. Suppose that an archaeologist who had visited from outer space were trying to explain human history to his fellow spacelings. He might illustrate the results of his digs by a 24-hour clock on which one hour represents 100,000 years of real past time. If the history of the human race began at midnight, then we would now be almost at the end of our first day. We lived as hunter-gatherers for nearly the whole of that day, from midnight through dawn, noon, and sunset. Finally, at 11:54 p. m. we adopted agriculture. As our second midnight approaches, will the plight of famine-stricken peasants gradually spread to engulf us all? Or will we somehow achieve those seductive blessings that we imagine behind agriculture’s glittering façade, and that have so far eluded us?

end.
 
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turtles

in the sea
Zhao, between this and your juice-fast stuff, you might have the most intellectual relationship with food out of any one I know :) I like it actually, it's interesting to put such an emphasis on it.

Anyway, as for this actual article, I certainly don't think it's crazy to argue that the human diet back in our hunter-gatherer days was better for us than in our post-agriculture days. After all, we evolved as hunter-gatherers, agriculture came strictly after the current step in evolution that ended with homo sapiens. I'm also kind of partial to the agriculture==beginning of widescale social hierarchies, exploitation of nature and other people, overpopulation, wide spread diseases etc. The article's obviously too short to get in to details though, so I can't really comment on how believable I find those claims to be.

This bit kinda jumped out at me though:
"Life expectancy at birth in the pre-agricultural community was bout twenty-six years," says Armelagos, "but in the post-agricultural community it was nineteen years. So these episodes of nutritional stress and infectious disease were seriously affecting their ability to survive."
Well that's great and all, but still we're talking 26 years, vs the 80+ I can expect for my own lifetime. I know you're not saying we should go back to the hunter-gatherer days, I'm not trying to misconstrue your arguments. But if we're going to use life expectancy/general health as a metric for measuring the quality of a given society (which is a pretty good metric, though it certainly doesn't tell the whole story), then we pretty much have to conclude that starting agriculture was a good idea, because look at how much longer we live now. In other words, the short term loss (in terms of life expectancy) caused by switching to agriculture was eventually outweighed by the success of the societies in the long run, and the "progressive" view is essentially correct.

Yes this is making the assumption that agriculture was the start of the push towards the sciences, which gave us the medicine and technology that keep us alive and healthy today. Given the massive proportion of time we humans spent as hunter-gatherers vs farmers, and the relative development of science during those two periods, you can't help but conclude that the effects of agriculture had a lot to do with the development of science/technology.

So the primitive hunter-gatherers had lots of free time too, but what were they doing with their free time? Why weren't they building interesting things, discovering new ideas, making sophisticated works of art? (...or maybe technological development truly does follow an exponential curve, and we are just finally coming out of the long flat build up; maybe those hunter-gatherers had to work really really hard for a long long time just to reach the level of technological sophistication that could lead to agriculture... :D ).


I guess broadly my issue is (and I don't mean to sound dismissive here but...): "yeah sounds about right, but how does this apply at all to our current circumstances?" It's so far removed from our lives today that it's hard to know what to do with it. I know you've mentioned this in other places more in terms of our happiness levels, but that's a much harder argument to make, and one that I notice Diamond largely stays away from above.
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Not to speak for zhao but he says above that the reason for posting the article is to consider that other ways of life are possible.

The life expectancy thing is interesting and a bit weird, but then maybe we did spend a lot of prehistory only living into our 20s. Would explain a lot ;) Also don't forget that perception of elapsed time can be hugely variable - given the right psychic and cultural conditions 26 years could be a very different lived experience to what it generally is now. And I don't suppose that modern hunter-gatherers have such short lifespans. ?

Regarding 'happiness', I've mentioned before how in 'The Human Zoo' Desmond Morris talks about how humans have spent most of their time living in small tribes. Now at this late stage in history we live in much bigger groupings and are constantly surrounded by 'strangers' that we would have evolved to be wary of. We have to fight this to live together so we end up with cognitive dissonance as well as anxiety. We have to pretend to ourselves that it's 'natural' but on the whole our modern way of life is more stressful I would say.

On top of that we are more distanced from our own survival - so many people in developed countries end up doing the most bizarre, abstract and apparently meaningless things for 'work' in order to be able to eat and live. It's not really a recipe for fulfillment and dignity.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The title of this thread makes me think of this:
Bunny.gif
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
i should have mentioned before that i do not necessarily agree with everything in the Diamond piece, and it does not nearly cover all of the important points and issues that I'm interested in. but while it may not necessarily be the best out there on this subject, it is more than sympathetic to many of the basic ideas of Anarcho-Primitivism. my main reason for choosing it over others is because people are less likely to knee-jerk dismiss Jarred Diamond than someone like John Zerzan, whose work makes up a much more radical stance and all-encompassing world view. many consider Zerzan to be missing a few marbles, but i consider him to be the dictionary definition of sane sobriety, and whole heartedly recommend his books (some of which are published by a division of Columbia University Press).

don't forget that perception of elapsed time can be hugely variable - given the right psychic and cultural conditions 26 years could be a very different lived experience to what it generally is now.

very important point. thanks for that.

On top of that we are more distanced from our own survival - so many people in developed countries end up doing the most bizarre, abstract and apparently meaningless things for 'work' in order to be able to eat and live. It's not really a recipe for fulfillment and dignity.

good stuff about this Desmond Morris guy (will look into).

and yeah, designing graphic packages for MTV would fit well with description of alienated labor :D some might think it's an OK job but all i fucking ever do is sit here alone in front of my computer, DAY IN AND DAY OUT. :(
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Mr Tea - are you saying that making animated gifs of someone petting a bunny will lead to the downfall of civilisation?
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
Mr Tea,

please remove your un-funny and less than irrelevent post, the only possible intention of which is to trivialize with childishness, to mock and ridicule in the most uninspired way possible.

while you are at it, please remove your own presence from this thread if you are not interested in participating in a constructive manner.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Dude, chill. I think this is a very interesting topic, but it's 10.30 here which is early for me, I need a while to warm up.
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
and yeah, designing graphic packages for MTV would fit well with description of alienated labor :D some might think it's an OK job but all i fucking ever do is sit here alone in front of my computer, DAY IN AND DAY OUT. :(

I have done a few jobs where I felt the same. Consequently, I changed jobs until I found something that I enjoy.
 

vimothy

yurp
Zhao:

Am I right in thinking that while Diamond is looking nostalgically at pre-history, Zerzan has a political programme for "going back there" (as in recreating past lifestyles now)? Could you say something about the possible practical methods for achieving the "future primitive" society?
 

vimothy

yurp
Zhao:

Am I right in thinking that while Diamond is looking nostalgically at pre-history, Zerzan has a political programme for "going back there" (as in recreating past lifestyles now)? Could you say something about the possible practical methods for achieving the "future primitive" society?

I would also be interested to know Zerzan's views (or your own, or the general anarcho-primitive consensus) on the global division of labour, and what will happen to this under the conditions of the future primitive society.
 

Mr BoShambles

jambiguous
Hi Zhao,

Further to Vims question, if obstacles - such as the worlds present population levels - could be somehow skirted and a return to a hunter-gatherer existence en-mass was possible, in your view would that spell the end of (1) the infrastructure that we have today i.e. telecommunications, modern education and healthcare services and forms/networks of transport etc (2) any significant technological/scientific advances in the future?

Surely this would be so since such activities can only be generated and sustained through a division of labour which free's up some peoples time away from subsistence production so that it can be devoted to other exploits. In essence then mankind would just abandon the last 400/500 years of rational/scientific 'progress' (stemming from the 'Enlightenment' -our cultural heritage) and return to a localised subsistence lifestyle.

Is this possible and, more importantly, desirable?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Hi Zhao,

Further to Vims question, if obstacles - such as the worlds present population levels - could be somehow skirted and a return to a hunter-gatherer existence en-mass was possible

......


Is this possible and, more importantly, desirable?

I'm sure Zhao can speak for himself, but he has said before and also in this thread that he's *not* advocating a literal return to a cave-man lifestyle.

Also, I'm sorry for interrupting your thread zhao, hope the bunny is less offensive than the redneck.
 

Mr BoShambles

jambiguous
I'm sure Zhao can speak for himself, but he has said before and also in this thread that he's *not* advocating a literal return to a cave-man lifestyle.

No I appreciate that Tea but I am trying to visualise a future along anarcho-primitive lines... Diamond's writing is fascinating and raises valuable considerations but in practical terms towards what kind of future does it lead us? Or rather what does Zhao (or anyone else) interpret from his writings as lessons or policies for mankinds future?
 
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vimothy

yurp
Surely this would be so since such activities can only be generated and sustained through a division of labour which free's up some peoples time away from subsistence production so that it can be devoted to other exploits. In essence then mankind would just abandon the last 400/500 years of rational/scientific 'progress' (stemming from the 'Enlightenment' -our cultural heritage) and return to a localised subsistence lifestyle.

And with what population, i.e. how would future primitivism deal with the "Malthusian limit" nature imposes? Or, do you, like Gek, believe that this limit is actually some kind of apex in any case ("not poverty")?

How large is the scope of Zerzan's vision? Is he advocating personal change, or change for the whole of society?

(For a good visualisation of the Malthusian limit, go here and turn to page 2, figure 1.1)
 
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