Underwater Dancehall

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Ok as reported in the Dubstep thread a few weeks back this shiz has leaked.

So any comments?

The whole vocal/instrumental double CD bet hedging idea is actually pretty smart, but does seem to imply a certain lack of confidence (either in the quality/suitability of the vocal additions to his tracks or in the Dubstep audience's receptivity to them...) In a recent interview Pinch was quoted as saying that his tracks suited vocalling due to the fact they were so minimal and hence had a lot of space in them... but I'm not quite so sure... on a few tracks ("Gangstaz" especially) the Jukali vocals work well... but at other times these vocals appear to drown out all the subtleties which are at the heart of what makes Pinch so compelling as a producer, the level of finely wrought detail and elegant spaciousness (indeed some of the vocals appear, if not too strident then certainly over-vocalled-ie: there is singing over too much of the track, an excess for a dance track). Also comparisons to say prime Massive Attack are somewhat uncomplimentary as although Pinch is easily their equal (if not better) in musical/engineering terms, Massive Attack were at their best able to fashion genuinely compelling songs out of their vocalled tracks. However "Step 2 It" from Box of Dub 2 is excellent, and actually works as a song... obviously songwriting is a bit of a different process from constructing dance music tracks (although the easier option would be to go for less frequent vocals placed more into the track, rather than attempting full songs...). Vocals definitely ought to have a place in dubstep, but its a place which has yet to be satisfactorily demarcated or defined.

All this however is by-the-by given Mr Ellis' hedge of course. His engineering skills are now absurdly tight, sickeningly lush, as good as anyone operating in German Minimal, and his ability to spin ever more various percussion patterns out of the dubstep template is staggering, the amount of rhythmical variation on this album in comparison to other Dubstep longplayers is really notable. Also his handling of Dub as a pronounced influence without sliding into cheesily fetishistic plastic-rasta digi-dub is admirable.
 
Last edited:
really really really good is my first impression here. and thats because of the instrumental cd, which is miles better than the vocaled one. for some reason the vocals just dont do the beats justice - pinch says theres lots of space in his sound, but gek is spot on - there needs to be more space in the vocals to complement it aswell. instead the vocals crowd out the little subtleties which make his tracks so good. - but since he's given us the instrumentals there really is no reason to complain.

and its quite short - which is nice, not like soundboy spanking, which is just too much stuff. this kind of reminds me of burials album with the whole aqueous muffle thing a substitute for the faded fragments of sound - the whole echoey thing, really nice, really deep aswell.

i dont know why anyone would need these tracks vocalled
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Yeah it is brilliant. Its a bit like Soundboy Punishments to the extent that it begs to the listener to be re-assembled into something listenable, (ie- which vocals do YOU think work?) which is fine with me. I actually found that with quite a few of the vocalled tracks it was impossible to actually hear beneath the bluster of the overly full overly loud vocals. A lot of the vocalled tracks definitely sound blander and more generic than the instrumentals... from what I've heard of the new Burial he has solved the problem of vocals by applying them in that vocal science manner as stabs, riffs, cut ups in the same audio-space as the rest of the track. This makes more sense I think than having vocalists dominate the track without being sensitive enough to the backing, to the funk of the beats and the cavernous spaciousness of the sound... perhaps a sounder approach then to working with vocalists would be to get them to sing the song, then take apart their vocals and utilise them as samples, ready to be cut apart, pitchshifted, timestretched, abused and dubbed out.
 

elgato

I just dont know
perhaps a sounder approach then to working with vocalists would be to get them to sing the song, then take apart their vocals and utilise them as samples, ready to be cut apart, pitchshifted, timestretched, abused and dubbed out.

tis the uk garage way, and i think the one most suited to the more delicate, intricate sounds

haven't heard this yet but im looking forward to it greatly

i think though that dubstep has potential in the full vocal direction though, i hope that this doesn't scare other producers off

anyone feeling this should have a look at national express / megabus prices for this..., but if you do be sure to get down early, capacity is very very limited
 
Last edited:

gek-opel

entered apprentice
On "Lazarus" the bongos appear to be in triplet time (giving the complete bar as 6/8). Pretty funky/wonky.
 
ive never actually heard any burial in a club, on a proper system - i wonder how much it holds up in that sort of environment, especially given how energy orientated/crowd pleasing dubstep has become. its kind of the same with this cd, great headphone music to walk along to on a drizzly night, great to get high to, listen to on radio - but i dont remember hearing a single burial tune out in a club.


i wish some of the bristol guys would come down to london - would be really interested to see peverelist, pinch, joker, some of the hench lot holding a night down.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
I've heard Burial in a club. The lo-fi-ness doesn't quite work, you are right. However Pinch's music is extremely hi fi, lots of attention to clear and massive (though subtle and understated for the most part) bass frequencies, so it totally works. However Pinch's DJing style is quite minimal influenced, and the crowds aren't always as up for that style as the jump up ravey stuff...
 

muser

Well-known member
was really dissapointed with the vocal talent on it (pretty pedestrian imo and dont seem to gell with the backing) but the beats are wickid.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
...perhaps a sounder approach then to working with vocalists would be to get them to sing the song, then take apart their vocals and utilise them as samples, ready to be cut apart, pitchshifted, timestretched, abused and dubbed out.

Funny, this is kinda the conclusion Dusk and I came to with our stuff and also how I felt when talking to Pinch about his approach.

But if you think about it, it's pretty much the appoach 'nuum producers have been taking since sampling began because when your only 'vocalist' is a tiny 1 bar exposed vocal snippet. And, in the absence of new variations a live vocalist provide you with, all you can do is start to "cut apart, pitchshift, timestretch, abuse and dub it out."

Really feeling the vocal side of the Pinch LP btw, it's a really nice contrast to the almost uniformly instrumental nature of dubstep. I've actually come to enjoy one of the really epic house vocal tracks too, it feels brave. Full thoughts on the LP here.
 

Logos

Ghosts of my life
Pinch's set at DMZ in Jan was the highlight of the year for me musically.

When is this actually released - next Monday?
 

bnek

Well-known member
havent listened to pinch yet, but wouldn't vocals only be effective on these kind of records if there were some kind of song ie. verse/chorus/bridge etc. or melody to begin with? otherwise its just aimlessly 'singing over beats' isnt it? was 'underwater dancehall' instrumentals first and vocals added later or was it produced specifically w/ vocals in mind?
 

ThinKing

Well-known member
havent listened to pinch yet, but wouldn't vocals only be effective on these kind of records if there were some kind of song ie. verse/chorus/bridge etc. or melody to begin with? otherwise its just aimlessly 'singing over beats' isnt it? was 'underwater dancehall' instrumentals first and vocals added later or was it produced specifically w/ vocals in mind?

most of the beats were written first, then vocalled later. If the tracks had been written with the vocalists I'm sure there would have been more congruency in the songs, but that's the limitation of the way Pinchy chose to work.

I think some of the vocal tracks work really well, Get Up is a builder, Trauma and Qawwali sound great with vocals, and I think One Blood... is a future classic of the 'Bristol Sound'.

I don't think the instro CD is a hedged bet either - Rob simply understands that not everyone would be happy if only the vocals versions were available.
 

shudder

Well-known member
On "Lazarus" the bongos appear to be in triplet time (giving the complete bar as 6/8). Pretty funky/wonky.

this rhythmic feel is amazing. Really, the sonic and rhythmic sophistication of this album are something else. I can't wait to get a legit copy (I hope that won't involve paying exorbitant UK -> Canada shipping fees... shouldn't the colonies get a break?). As for the vocals, I definitely agree that their incorporation is a mixed bag, but I do think there are some successes. I need to give it a few more listens first before I sort it out. I thought I'd hate Qawaali vocalised, though.
 

blubeat

blubeat
Pinch's set at DMZ in Jan was the highlight of the year for me musically.

For me as well. Best dubstep set I can remember period. No rewinds. No novelty dubstep. Just solid, heavy on point Pinch style dubstep. I think that was the night that Distance played as well. His set was probably the second best I've heard this year. Pinch and Distance kill me every time.
 

mms

sometimes
i think i need to give it a few listens this, i was underwhelmed on both discs and i really really think pinch is great overall.
 

shudder

Well-known member
On "Lazarus" the bongos appear to be in triplet time (giving the complete bar as 6/8). Pretty funky/wonky.

btw, isn't the meter more 12/8 than 6/8? Otherwise there are really just two beats to the bar, which doesn't sound right to me.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
btw, isn't the meter more 12/8 than 6/8? Otherwise there are really just two beats to the bar, which doesn't sound right to me.

Thinking about it... yeah its triplets (bongos) over a 4/4 beat (kick/snare). 12/8 sounds about right!

Its like Prog-step or something...
 
Top