The deathly stranglehold of retro cool

ChineseArithmetic

It is what it is
...or, why I don't listen to non-electronic music these days

As a teen back in the eighties, almost all the music I bought and listened to was current new releases. Some indie rock type things I heard on Peel or saw in NME, but mainly stuff like Virgin era Cabaret Voltaire, other industrial, ON-U Sound, Colourbox, New Order, hip-hop I heard on Mike Allen when I could find it, Public Enemy etc. When house, acid and Detroit techno appeared, they felt very much like my kind of thing as well.

I was interested in finding out about older music - old funk that I knew was sampled on hip-hop records, jazz that Richard Cook used to write about in NME, people like Hendrix and The Stones and random things that were cited as influences by current cats, like Mark E Smith talking about Can, Link Wray, Bo Diddley, The Seeds etc. But in those days, unless you had older relatives who had the records, there wasn't much info around. The likes of Mojo, Uncut etc didn't exist, the music papers only really covered new stuff. Although I read a music paper every week, listened to Peel, bought some other mags, I think I was barely even aware that things like Pet Sounds and Revolver even existed.

When I headed off to Uni in the big smoke, I met other studes who were into 60's and 70's rock and started to hear an get interested in 60's garage stuff like the 13th Floor Elevators, which in some ways seemed to have common elements with stuff I already liked. With the arrival of mags like Mojo, and the ever increasing amount of reissues of old stuff on cd, my tastes started to go quite retro as I started picking up 'classics' like Astral Weeks, Exile on Main Street, The Byrds, Neil Young, P-Funk, Trojan reggae etc. Although not new, it was new to me, and felt fresh and exciting.

But somewhere along the way, I guess due to the rise of britpop, it seemed that the music scene which had reliably delivered new and surprising sounds to me through my teens and early twenties - industrial, electro, PE, go-go, acid, US noise, techno, jungle - became completely swamped by a never ending retro trend which looked only to the past. Every new act dresses and sounds like something from the past. The same tedious 50/100 best albums is served up every few months, the same 50/100 as last time in a slightly different order. And the media is full of Nick Hornby wannabees banging on endlessly about the Beatles/Stones/Beach Boys/Jam/Clash.

And what this seems to have done for me is to taint all the music that is endlessly rehashed in the pages of Mojo and Uncut, or touted as an article of retro cool by the likes of John Harris- I could quite comfortably live the rest of my life without ever reading another article about Brian Wilson, Nick Drake, Mick and Keef et al, I'm just sick of hearing about all this back catalogue stuff, proferred by various fools as evidence of their 'good taste' and love of 'proper' music, always accompanied by a dismissal of techno and house music as not 'proper' - and anyway, dance music is dead, Alex Pretredis said so.

Hence all I seem to listen to these days is electronic music and the few bits of hip-hop that excite me. I want music that still has some ambition to be the future, rather than just recycle the past. Anyone else feeling this as acutely as me? I know it's not directly the fault of my Neil Young and Dylan albums that everythings shit now, they weren't to know. But they're sitting on my shelf unplayed, and I can't see me going back to them much anytime soon.

Sorry this is long....
 
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
A few points.

Neil Young, Dylan and The Stones are shit and boring on the whole.

Mojo and Uncut will not help you.

There is good stuff being made now - you may have to dig for it.

There is a huge amount of great stuff from the past - you'd need a very long time to exhaust it.

Most current bands will inevitably be overshadowed by the past because - a) things are more exciting in their first flush of creation and b) there's just so much of it (the past).

What you want is perfectly reasonable but the 'industry' is clearly not supporting those kinds of endeavors right now.
 

swears

preppy-kei
Loads of electronic stuff is dredging up it's own past now as well though. We've had disco, electro, italo, and acid revivals, it's a bit depressing.

Plus, I'm 24. Imagine never having any music you could call your generation's, except recycled old ideas.
 
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N

nomadologist

Guest
Cabaret Voltaire are great :)

Who cares what the critical establishment thinks is worthwhile? They're mostly just careerists anyway, saying whatever will get them bigger headlines, you know how it is...
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
ahem, uncut happens to be a pretty good magazine and the reviews section covers a hell of a lot more than you might think, so it can help a fair bit
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Cabaret Voltaire are great :)

Who cares what the critical establishment thinks is worthwhile? They're mostly just careerists anyway, saying whatever will get them bigger headlines, you know how it is...
Yep.

If reading John Harris was putting me off listening to Bob Dylan, I think I'd choose to stop reading John Harris.
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
yup, most of us members of the critical establishment just do it for the cocaine, strippers, company lexuses, six-figure salaries and massive respect we receive on internet message boards
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
ahem, uncut happens to be a pretty good magazine and the reviews section covers a hell of a lot more than you might think, so it can help a fair bit
OK.

It just doesn't seem to be helping Chinese Arithmetic so I'm suggesting looking elsewhere.

Like here maybe.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
yup, most of us members of the critical establishment just do it for the cocaine, strippers, company lexuses, six-figure salaries and massive respect we receive on internet message boards

i always wondered...
 

ChineseArithmetic

It is what it is
A few points.

Neil Young, Dylan and The Stones are shit and boring on the whole.

Mojo and Uncut will not help you.

There is good stuff being made now - you may have to dig for it.

There is a huge amount of great stuff from the past - you'd need a very long time to exhaust it.

Most current bands will inevitably be overshadowed by the past because - a) things are more exciting in their first flush of creation and b) there's just so much of it (the past).

What you want is perfectly reasonable but the 'industry' is clearly not supporting those kinds of endeavors right now.

Definitely disagree on Ny, Stones, Byrds, even if I may never want to hear them again. Mojo and Uncut I just never open these days - Percy Plants gurning visage on the latest issue of the latter is offputting all by itself- I own several of their albums, but is Led Zep minus one reforming anything to get excited about.

The whole argument about whether there really is a marked dearth of new ideas these days will obviously rage on - yes I do find Burial for one really impressive, but things that interest me that much are thin on the ground, and while retroism isn't the only factor, it's a large piece in the puzzle I think.
 

ChineseArithmetic

It is what it is
Who cares what the critical establishment thinks is worthwhile? They're mostly just careerists anyway, saying whatever will get them bigger headlines, you know how it is...

Yep.

If reading John Harris was putting me off listening to Bob Dylan, I think I'd choose to stop reading John Harris.


All very good points, and I certainly ignore their efforts to persuade me to pick up the latest lumpen indie rock they're touting. But, while I know it's in no way rational, this endless touting of rock classics has just ruined a lot of that music for me. I think maybe if things change, as surely they must, I'll feel able to revisit some of this stuff, but right now every one of those wretched hundred best lists just makes me never want to hear any of those records again.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
Only fairly recently stopped buying music magazines, used to get Uncut and Mojo every month. My feeling is that there is often plenty of good writing in both, but on subjects that have been done to absolute death. Much as I love The Beatles, Dylan (even Joy Division), these magazines simply have nothing more to offer me.

Tried that Plan B magazine recently, mainly because of the Animal Collective feature, but found the writing style insufferable, just total wank. Everett bloody True...
 

zhao

there are no accidents
Chinese A, please listen to this track (preview right on the page), and let me know what you think.

my point being that a lot of seemingly new ideas, in this case minimalism, modularity, etc., were in place for thousands of years prior to the 20th century. techno is descendent of the 1960s minimalists, and the minimalists got their ideas from music such as this.
 
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gek-opel

entered apprentice
Cabaret Voltaire are great :)

Really? Everyone rates them. But everything I hear sounds stuck somewhere between TG and 23 Skidoo, without ever being as compelling as either. Maybe its one of those "you just had to be there at the time" kind of things...?
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
Really? Everyone rates them. But everything I hear sounds stuck somewhere between TG and 23 Skidoo, without ever being as compelling as either. Maybe its one of those "you just had to be there at the time" kind of things...?

probably -- it's like they're rock-historically important

can't think of a single song by them that i truly rate
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Definitely disagree on Ny, Stones, Byrds, even if I may never want to hear them again.
Well there's your problem!

Nah, just kidding - of course I recognise those all have their merits and their moments - but they are actually all way down on my list of faves so as far as I'm concerned their cononical status is utterly arbitrary anyway before we even get to the over familiarity.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
probably -- it's like they're rock-historically important

can't think of a single song by them that i truly rate

What about Sensoria? I love that song, the Joy Division sample kills.

I Want You is great, too. I've only got a comp of their '80s stuff though, so Nag Nag Nag aside I don't really know their early work.
 
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