Nuggets, Pebbles, Boulders.....

Woebot

Well-known member
Two guys have just sold thee most enormous collection of back from the grave style psych-punk at Flashback records on the Essex Road in Islington.

You have NEVER seen so much of this stuff in your life.

Millions of comps, but also loads and loads of rare originals.

Two things struck me:

a) How the culture of bootlegging this stuff was massive in the eighties

b) Just the sheer quantity of it there was in the eighties and how much of the music we used to listen against a backdrop of these reissues: from the Lester Bangs-inflected stuff to bands like The Butthole Surfers and Loop. Psych-Punk was giant.
 
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nomadologist

Guest
Since I wasn't around, I'm clueless--why was bootlegging so big then? Was it part of the punk DIY ethos/aesthetic?
 

swears

preppy-kei
No P2P then was there?

I remember kids at my school collecting Nirvana bootlegs, that was only around 10 years ago.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
a) How the culture of bootlegging this stuff was massive in the eighties

b) Just the sheer quantity of it there was in the eighties and how much of the music we used to listen against a backdrop of these reissues: from the Lester Bangs-inflected stuff to bands like The Butthole Surfers and Loop. Psych-Punk was giant.

Was this the pre-historic beginning of the re-issue culture then?
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Since I wasn't around, I'm clueless--why was bootlegging so big then? Was it part of the punk DIY ethos/aesthetic?

yeah swears is on the money, it was the only way to get rarer stuff or live work by an artist you liked. plus because stuff wasn't available digitally yet, there was still a large kudos around the collectability of the items you managed to find by shopping in shops, or finding people who were distributors in the back of fanzines. The metal/grindcore/noise underground was tops in this - there were bands who never released anything but tapes that you could swap for a tape of stuff you had. See also the Grateful Dead for their pioneering use of 'bootleg towers' where you could just jack in and record the live concert for free off a desk feed, provided you didn't sell on the tape, you could only swap them. The grime kids have a lot to learn yet about free free enterprise, but it's good they're getting there - listening to Logan's show yesterday, hearing him talk to Asher D about being independent and bringing down the record industry. It's about time.
 

Leo

Well-known member
funny, by the looks of things at the recent annual wfmu record fair in nyc, that psyche/garage band/bootleg culture still has legs: tons of dealers selling originals and boots, and waxing nostalgic about seeing the monks, roky erikson, etc. mostly aging, balding, slightly overweight, slightly ripe-smelling geezers who wouldn't know a hardcore continuum if it whacked them in the ass. :)
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
i tantatively put one hand into the psych bucket a few years back; i reached down to my shoulder and realized that not only was it impossible to get to a bottom, but that it would swallow me, my family, and my friends whole... that's when i got scared and backed away, not looking back :) but from time to time still really enjoyed the few things i pulled out of there - some nuggets, some turkish, vietnamese, mexican and korean 60s garage punk stuff...
 

zhao

there are no accidents
tons of dealers selling originals and boots, and waxing nostalgic about seeing the monks, roky erikson, etc. mostly aging, balding, slightly overweight, slightly ripe-swelling geezers who wouldn't know a ______ if it whacked them in the ass. :)

that's how you lot will be with your dubstep and grime 12 inches in 20 years :D
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Quite often at Sunday car boot sales I'll come across ex ravers who are around my age selling up all their records. It's weird to be confronted again with all these things you lived through and bought at the time. I like the nostalgic conversations but I have to try not to let on how much the stuff would go for on ebay. ;)
 
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Woebot

Well-known member
i tantatively put one hand into the psych bucket a few years back; i reached down to my shoulder and realized that not only was it impossible to get to a bottom, but that it would swallow me, my family, and my friends whole...

ha! so true....
 

Woebot

Well-known member
There's people like this with hardcore and jungle 12 inches now.

http://www.discogs.com/release/33017

I have this...

on mp3. :D

yes the next cohort of scenius collecting might be the ardkore era (as mentioned many times in the past, so many similarities between it and psych punk)

but there's really very little bootlegging of that era. though i still think the scene needs its nuggets.

i have that record......on vinyl (tee hee)
 

petergunn

plywood violin
Was this the pre-historic beginning of the re-issue culture then?

yes and no. here is my longwinded answer...

doo wop collectors probably started the reissue/bootleg market, as early as the early 60's... somewhere out there is a great article about about Times Square Records and the 5 sharps record "stormy weather", a mythical doo wop record that was rerecorded (the masters were lost) and pressed up and passed off a repress of the original...

the mob was also bootlegging records by at least the late 60's and the emergence of the youth oriented FM/LP market (they'd pay off guys to run the presses at night or find a small pressing plant that'd look the other way... you can find these records sometimes, they look about 90% like a real release, but something is a little off...)

in terms of live bootlegs, they begin with Bob Dylan and Rolling Stones stuff ("liver than you'll ever be", taped on their 69 tour may be the best live rock record i own) in the late 60's... they had plain white covers with just a stamp on 'em... Clinton Heyden's "bootleg" is a very cool telling of those days and up...

the 70's is when reissues/bootlegs of old stuff really took off... there are tons of bootlegs of old rockabilly and r&b 45's that date from the 70's, i have one of one of the first motown 45's ("whole lotta woman" by the contours)... if you go into 45 only shops run by cigar smoking old man who listen to talk radio all day, they will def STILL have a pile of stock of that type of stuff that they bought in the 70's... there are also jenky versions of old Little Richard stuff on the TRIP label which feature lame takes from the 70's of rocking 50's stuff... these are from the early 70's, when "American Graffiti" brought back nostalgia from the 50's...

on the official side of things, the mid 70's is when Shelby Singleton reissued all the classic Sun country and rockabilly on a revived version of the Sun label... King records was also revived to release their 50's/60's material from people like Hank Ballard and the Midnighters in a similar fashion in 1976... it's also when RCA reissued the early Elvis Sun Sessions... i am attributing 76 as the magic year to a combination of a burgeoning record collector underground and another nostalgia boom, due to Fonzey and "Happy Days"

tho, it might just have been something in the air, as in the UK, Charley begin not as a r&b label, but as a rockabilly label, even hitting the charts with Hank Mizell's tune "jungle rock" in 1976... in fact, if you look at the UK charts right before the dawn of punk, a lot of the charts was either greatest hits of current artists or cheapo reissues of 50's and 60's stuff...


now for the garage/psych part of the story:

Lenny Kaye's Nuggets comp, released in 1972, and collecting garage psych records from 66-68, was, i think, the first rock record to collect old records with a real intellectual purpose (as opposed to Golden Oldies type comps). after the death of psych, and eevn proto punk (bands like the Stooges, MC5, and VU were either gone or on their way out) and before the rise of punk, there was a void in hard, catchy 2 minute 30 second songs (remember that Glam Rock made no impact in the US)... i have seen Lenny Kaye out at around NYC and i would be curious to ask him why/how Electra issued it and what gave him the idea...

with the dawn of pub rock and punk, Nuggets was reissued by Sire in 1976... at that point, a real underground of garage/psych collectors had started to develop thru fanzines and record trading... people like Jeff "monoman" connelly, the singer of DMZ, a late 70's boston band whose first record from the 1976 contains covers by both the Sonics and the Wailers... he became "famous' w/ the Lyres, but really started out as a record collector...

at this point, you have the magic recipe for bootlegging: enough people who are sweating records to pay hundreds for 'em (and lots of casual fans turned on by punk bands covering old garage songs), yet not enough to merit a mainstream release... also, consider that most garage/psych 45's came out on a small labels that had long since gone out of business by the late 70's... so, proper reissues would be exceedingly difficult...

so, pebbles sprung up in the late 70's to fill the gap... gradually Rhino records began reissuing their own Nuggets series, in the early 80's... (they started as a novelty label, but began doing reissues by the late 70's)

from there on reissue culture explodes to the point that the major labels get in on the act and reissue tons of their 60's catalogs...

with the exception of Charley, i don't know too much about UK reissue culture, except to guess that alot of it comes out of the market stall records shops of the pub rock days that specialized in 50's and 60's music...
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
Ace Records was a big player in this late 70s/early Eighties thing, right. They would have been contemporaries of Charly (I had a bunch of their stuff -- Lee Dorsey comp with Joe Strummer sleevenotes). A little bit later came Demon and Edsel. They had a record store in Clapham near the end of Acre Lane if I recall.

David Stubbs has a book out on Ace imminently, in the same series as the Rob Young ones on Warp and Rough Trade -- haven't seen it yet though

From what i gather Ace was an offshoot of Chiswick, which just preceded Stiff as a Uk independent/pub rock label. But before that the owner Ted Carroll owned a market stall in one of the London markets, selling rockabilly and old stuff. Then he founded Rock On (i think that's the name), the record store in Camden that's right next to the tube (and the little old shop where you could --stil can? -- get doc martens really cheap)

but things like pub rock as a going-backwards-to-go-forward type movement of new bands clearly went hand in hand with this kind of record collectory, proto-reissue culture mindset

Bomp! Records coming out of the magazine Who Put the Bomp is another example of the syndrome

i keep waiting for the Bam Caruso of ardkore junglizm to emerge with a 26 part series of early 90s freakbeat
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
In the future we will not own records, we will watch videos of other people playing them.


Maybe that's where it comes from?
 

mos dan

fact music
ah yes of course. i would like to shake that man by the hand as well. good work with the bomp, son.
 
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