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Woebot
04-02-2005, 09:18 AM
Completely gave up on CC after the "Elements of and Experiments with Tone" comp on Planet e in 1996. Not that it was a bad comp, it just felt like that whole axis was spent.

Since then my planet e intake has been restricted to that Recloose EP (with the cartoon of the mining DJ on the cover) and the Recloose LP (nice)

Yesterday I was doing some oblique strategy musical investigation and came home with the "just another day" EP. Its really really nice. Incredibly low-key, distinctly muted-jazz style grooves lead by super-fat basslines, a dread quote from Genesis on the records rear" And God Said unto Noah, the end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, i will destroy them with them with the earth". traces of the original neurotic behaviour beatless mix throughout but the production is (theres no way around it) overwhelmingly beautiful.

so is his "programmed" lp any good?

and for the record i'm quite taken with the idea of "jazz techno" this week. it actually translates as quite nasty bleak electronic music with opaque hooks which doesnt resort to myopic glitchery and is too left out of the party to be sraight dance music. has anyone else heard the nsi record on kompakt? thats the most interesting thing ive ever heard on that label. tagged on the wall as "sun ra-like microhouse" and thats not such a bad description.......

Jim Daze
04-02-2005, 10:26 AM
Hi Matt, yeah that 'More Songs About Revolutionary Art.....' was the last Craig long player I bought. The only 'great' track on that being 'At-Les'. I loved that Basic Channel mix of the Climax that came out a while back. Re:Techno-Jazz, I know it's an obvious one but that live version of 'Hi-Tech Jazz' by UR is something I listen to know and then, had a few hands in the air moments to that one, but not lately.
Haven't heard that Kompakt tune you refer to but am loving the work of Justus Kohnke, it's like techno you can pad around the house to :)

Blackdown
04-02-2005, 10:32 AM
The Detroit Experiement and the Innerzone Orchestra LPs both have their moments, but are pretty varied, whereas early CC is more sonically focused. "Jazz Techno" eh, how 1996! :)

Chef Napalm
04-02-2005, 11:21 AM
Dunno about the albums, but I've really been feeling that Beanfield remix he did recently.

hint
04-02-2005, 01:11 PM
yeah - it's all about his remixes recently:

beanfield - tides
directions - busted trees
cesaria evora - angola

and his disco re-edit EPs on moxie

redcrescent
04-02-2005, 04:08 PM
His 're-edit' of The Congos' 'Congoman' was totally, utterly pointless, tho'. Why anyone would want to retouch such a perfect piece of music is beyond me - surely in his heart he must know he can't add anything to the original?
On a similar tip, didn't Gary Lucas give up trying to remix Tubbys' 'Dub fi gwaan' after a week because he realized it was like trying to 'rearrange the Sistine Chapel' or something?
(I must say I quite like his analogy because 'Dub fi gwaan' is one of the greatest dubs ever, ever, ever.)



the Recloose LP (nice)Seconded.

jed_
04-02-2005, 06:57 PM
His Throbbing Gristle remixes were great, proper old school mixes (by which i mean beefed up and extended and not much more - i approve) and the remix of cesaria evora's "angola" is truly wonderful. The Tres Demented EP is great, especially "Demented Drums" and there IS some pretty great stuff on "programmed", especially the jazz version of "At Les", Basic Math" and "Programmed" - i even love the cover of the Stylistics' "People Make the World go round".

I wasn't too keen on "Cardiology" fwiw.

notoriousJ.I.M
04-02-2005, 07:06 PM
yeah - it's all about his remixes recently:

beanfield - tides
directions - busted trees
cesaria evora - angola

and his disco re-edit EPs on moxie

Agreed, but also worth a mention is Aardvark - Cult Copy Part 2 (Carl Craig Edit) and A Wonderful Life (Epic Mix) which both have been out in the last few years.

notoriousJ.I.M
04-02-2005, 07:10 PM
The Tres Demented EP is great, especially "Demented Drums"

Ah yes it samples the Music Box classic Angry Drums by Rinder and Lewis. Great EP too.

jed_
04-02-2005, 08:06 PM
I'll check out the Rinder and Lewis track, thanks.

mms
04-02-2005, 08:43 PM
tres demented/demented drums was good as well as the throbbing gristle remix, haven't bought the new un'.i trust him oddly, and i never used to cos he just lifed so much, but he is good, he hasn't settled down into trite boring flat house like a few em.

robin
05-02-2005, 12:27 AM
for some reason i've never heard much by carl craig,but i really liked his francois de roubaix remix

Andy K
07-02-2005, 06:51 PM
None of his recent remixes, save the one of "Hot on the Heels of Love," have done much for me. Maybe it's because I've expected primal batshit insanity since the Tres Demented 12". (Haven't heard the new one. Hoping to recitfy that soon.)

I do love Programmed. Not so much the case with the tame Detroit Experiment record, a couple tracks excepted (Midnight at the 20 Grand).

Still play the hell out of his two-disc mix released on React a couple years back.

Post-'96 Planet E search: Moodymann's Silent Introduction comp (including one of my favorite blue-faced tracky things KDJ has done), Todd Sines 12" (calling all Luomo Vocalcity freaks), bits of the 2000 Black comp (Titonton in particular), Recloose's Cardiology, parts of the Ibex 12s, Newworldaquarium 12" licensed from Delsin, Niko Marks 12".

Woebot, are you talking about the NSI on Cadenza, with the 10+ minute A-side? It's excellent, though I might be overly excited by anything close to a change-up within that sphere of labels.

Shot in the dark: Anyone heard the old-new Connection Machine album?

adam
07-02-2005, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=Andy K]calling all Luomo Vocalcity freaks[QUOTE]

present!

DigitalDjigit
08-02-2005, 02:15 AM
Noone mentioned Designer Music on Planet E. I guess it's not that spectacular but I am fond of it. It's kind of a remix of Robotnick's Problemmez D'Amour but it only really uses the "aoooaaah" vocal. It's really hypnotic, you gotta listen to it the whole way through, crazy dynamics there.

Woebot
08-02-2005, 08:05 AM
His 're-edit' of The Congos' 'Congoman' was totally, utterly pointless, tho'

wasnt it completely!!!!

the pepe braddock mix of 'angola' was better imho.

Woebot
08-02-2005, 08:17 AM
Woebot, are you talking about the NSI on Cadenza, with the 10+ minute A-side? It's excellent, though I might be overly excited by anything close to a change-up within that sphere of labels.

(inspects record closely) yeah its on cadenza andy. looks like kompakt only did the distribution.

are you saying not much is happening on these labels at the moment? i wouldnt be too surprised, but this does sound pretty unusual/improbable. its not my territory at all, but feeling a bit bi-partisan at the moment.


jazz techno

yeah, lol, know what you mean. "jupiter jazz" and all that gubbins. thought it was pretty iffy back in the day, frinstance never really swallowed kirk ds manifesto. that old adage about there being too much else going on.... actually these two tunes i'm listening too dont bear much that much resemblance to "classical jazz techno" (again, lol) theyre just a bit weird, a bit bleak and nasty with mash-up tunings. in fairness this may be cos jazz proper has been ingested a bit more comprehensively, not like a saxaphone stuck on top of a bog standard techno production. not a sax in sight......

Andy K
08-02-2005, 01:04 PM
are you saying not much is happening on these labels at the moment? i wouldnt be too surprised, but this does sound pretty unusual/improbable. its not my territory at all, but feeling a bit bi-partisan at the moment.

No, your assumption is right. Kompakt and Kompakt-distributed labels can bat around most of their ideas right now without getting redundant. That comment made me look like too much of a pessimist, when it's more that I'm always up for a good shake-up.

The new Craig 12" is good! Two tracks strike me as new takes on Neurotic Behavior and the first track off Landcruising, scrubbed and stripped down.

STN
24-04-2008, 10:09 AM
Does anyone know anything about that tribute to sun ra that carl craig was involved in?

Bang Diddley
24-04-2008, 10:17 AM
ive only ever some across this when it comes to tributes to sun ra from a techno/jazz style
http://www.discogs.com/release/229169

is that what you mean or is there something more recent ?

STN
24-04-2008, 10:23 AM
Yeah that's it. I think it looks worthwhile.

zhao
24-04-2008, 10:59 AM
Yeah that's it. I think it looks worthwhile.

looks http://jeep.duttonforshawmotors.com/images/logo_dodge.gif

STN
24-04-2008, 11:21 AM
Ha ha. I'm giving it a chance, you can all laugh at me when it turns out to be a load of twiddly, tryhard garbage.

zhao
24-04-2008, 11:31 AM
i spent a very stoned weekend making free-jazz and beats mashups/remixes one week, played some of the results to a friend... he just looked at me shaking his head with this exact expression:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2788/snoopsmhil1.gif

i haven't tried anything like that since.

only couple of instances where skronky avant jazz worked with beat driven electronic music to my mind is on ~scape label, there are 2 tracks of this in my Submarine mix. rare strokes of genius...

UFO over easy
24-04-2008, 02:36 PM
yeah zhao, jan jelinek's 'loop finding jazz records' is one of my favourite records

but it's not really very 'jazzy' at all, tellingly

zhao
24-04-2008, 03:01 PM
yeah zhao, jan jelinek's 'loop finding jazz records' is one of my favourite records

no that's not what I was referring to... (DAMN fine record that it is)

the tunes I'm on about has real skronk sax blowing on it. not even treated or cut up. straight going for the jugular moments that erupt from the digital shards. wicked.

i think it's track 07 on this mix - Andrew Peckler, and another similar moment toward the end, but that one is an "unknown" as i couldn't for the life of me find the cut again after recording the mix.

http://dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=7504

slim jenkins
24-04-2008, 03:27 PM
I too lost track with CC some time ago...funny to think he was regarded as God-like back then but nowadays I rarely revisit although seeing the '69' spin round on the deck does touch on feelgood nostalgia.

As for 'Jazz-Tech' fusion, the good intentions rarely, if ever, produce(d) valid material IMO. Likewise 'Jungle/D&B Jazz' - let's face it, most amounts to nothing more than an acoustic bass line and maybe tricky drums (see Photek, possibly the best stab). Though back then we all thought 'Brown Paper Bag' was amazing. Still have affection for T.Power's 'Mutant Jazz', more for personal reasons, perhaps. But it's stood up quite well.

The Sun Ra 'tribute', I think I tested it - nah. Again, part of me liked to think it was possible to do justice to The Man (wishful thinking) - but it seems impossible through that avenue. I don't think you can take on Sonny except from a completely opposite angle like, um, avant-thrash-metal.

Bang Diddley
24-04-2008, 03:34 PM
You could try some of Ian O'Briens productions. Personally I find most of them a bit jazz noodley with the occasional good track eg Midnight Sunshine.

Desert Scores is pretty good.

viktorvaughn
24-04-2008, 04:05 PM
CC's Poor People Must Work remix on the 'See Mi Yah' remixes is amazing.

slim jenkins
24-04-2008, 04:07 PM
You talkin' to me? Sorry, not meant in a Travis Bickle style, honest. Seem to recall his stuff being of the time when folks got the bug for Herbie and bought Arps to noodle on. But without either the compositional ability or playing chops it doesn't have the substance of, say, 'Takin' Off'. The common downfall of all the 'nu' fusionists. No chops.

Bang Diddley
24-04-2008, 04:18 PM
They might of used Arps, but I would never compare OBrien to Hancock - Raindance from Sextent says it all. But he has got his place along with Kirk Degregio (sp)

D84
24-04-2008, 04:18 PM
That Tres Demented "Shez Satan" EP worked for me.

That Paperclip People CDEP "4 My Peepz"was also great but that was a while ago...

slim jenkins
24-04-2008, 05:13 PM
They might of used Arps, but I would never compare OBrien to Hancock - Raindance from Sextent says it all. But he has got his place along with Kirk Degregio (sp)

Of course none of them could lick Herbie and wouldn't claim to be able to but his name was checked in every interview around that time, it seemed. It was Patrick Gleeson who played 'Raindance', by the way.

Alfons
24-04-2008, 06:49 PM
I think his output in the last 2-3 years has been amazing, the remixes especially, Junior Boys remix, falling up remix, faze action... the list goes on.

Im not really familiar with his old stuff except for the big big tunes. Want to get the Sessions CD or the vinyl.

What is he like as a dj? Have heard that he might be coming to these parts this summer.

Bang Diddley
25-04-2008, 07:30 AM
Did anyone check Puntang ? Proper wonky, it's got about a 4 minute build up before the bass drops, and when it does it's a bad ass.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
25-04-2008, 08:59 AM
Puntang was floating round in the mid 90s, I always loved it. Likewise that Hot Lizard mix he did from the same era which I think got re-released recently. Beautiful noisy hihats and minor key synths, I still love that stuff.

Havent liked anything I've heard in the last few years although a lot of it has passed me by. I thought 'Falling Up' was lame.

Only seen him DJ once and he smacked it, was a long time ago though.

noel emits
25-04-2008, 09:34 AM
I've well enjoyed Carl Craig's DJ sets the few times I've caught him. At the 2001 ATP he kicked off his set with Alice Coltrane's 'Universal Consciousness'.

Unfair to expect too many 'At Les's or 'Ladies And Gentleman's but he still makes really good stuff a lot of the time. Big up Carl Craig.

Anyone picked up the 'Sessions' thing with all the remixes and a DJ mix?

smn
25-04-2008, 10:17 AM
Anyone picked up the 'Sessions' thing with all the remixes and a DJ mix?

Yeah. Don't rate it at all though. This is what I wrote about it on another thread here recently:

Carl Craig on the other hand is really hit and miss with me. All of his recent remixes have left me cold (except maybe the R & S one). His Sessions mix disappointed no end, which is no surprise I guess considering it's packed with said remixes. The best stuff on it - his Chez Damier remix, PP's Throw (one of my favourite tracks ever), the 69 stuff - is all old as fuck. I think the man needs to loose the sheen and (re-) find the funk.

UFO over easy
25-04-2008, 10:29 AM
the Can thing from recently is cool, and I like Falling Up when it finally gets going. I even like the Congos thing, pointless though it may be. It just makes the original longer, which is a good thing

I have a bit of trouble with threads like this, I think because I don't really understand early-mid 90s techno. Especially the more abrasive stuff (I love basic channel). Aesthetically, sonically I find newer stuff so much more appealing. Couldn't put my finger on why though; I love rough, raw sounding music.. maybe I lack the necessary context. But I never needed the context to fall in love with jungle, or two step. The ..revolutionary arts LP is basically where I start to really like his stuff, rather than the other way round which seems to be more common.

Anyone got any ideas? Not sure where I'm going with this really. I've been trying for a long time with it, and potentially wasted lots of money buying records I don't really like much..

straight
25-04-2008, 10:40 AM
Havent liked anything I've heard in the last few years although a lot of it has passed me by. I thought 'Falling Up' was lame.

!

I cant believe theres so little love for cc's recent work here, the dela+gavin revelee remix from last year still leaves me gawping in a daze. I knows he's formulaic at times (no kick for ages, one filter tweaked for ages, clap, clap, clap, clap, clapclap) but time stands still during that tune, gotten me out of choppy waters many a time

sodiumnightlife
25-04-2008, 10:54 AM
the Can thing from recently is cool, and I like Falling Up when it finally gets going. I even like the Congos thing, pointless though it may be. It just makes the original longer, which is a good thing

I have a bit of trouble with threads like this, I think because I don't really understand early-mid 90s techno. Especially the more abrasive stuff (I love basic channel). Aesthetically, sonically I find newer stuff so much more appealing. Couldn't put my finger on why though; I love rough, raw sounding music.. maybe I lack the necessary context. But I never needed the context to fall in love with jungle, or two step. The ..revolutionary arts LP is basically where I start to really like his stuff, rather than the other way round which seems to be more common.

Anyone got any ideas? Not sure where I'm going with this really. I've been trying for a long time with it, and potentially wasted lots of money buying records I don't really like much..

I know exactly what you mean Ben. I love a load of 90s techno and can quite happily listen to jeff mill's sets etc, but only for a while. There's something about the quest for roughness, for hardness that seems so utterly alien to me. Maybe its because i'm white, middle class and boring, but I much prefer recent techno , with its more considered approach to absolutely tearing the floor apart.

Ory
25-04-2008, 11:02 AM
the Can thing from recently is cool
The Can remix is over 10 years old.. http://www.discogs.com/release/20200

I still respect CC, but none of his newer stuff moves me as profoundly as, say, "Mind Of A Machine" or "At Les".

UFO over easy
25-04-2008, 11:10 AM
oh really? repress bizzle.. I really like it anyway :) that makes things interesting re: post above


There's something about the quest for roughness, for hardness that seems so utterly alien to me

maybe! but that doesn't really explain it for me because I love ruffer-than-ruff jungle and no u-turn style 97-98 dark/hard/mechanical techstep.

noel emits
25-04-2008, 11:57 AM
Carl Craig's stuff might have some (deliberate) rough edges and distortion etc. but he's always been art techno. I'm not really sure I understand this - it's not like he does mindless bangers - it's Carl Craig!

At Les? Bug In The Bassbin? - pure lush breakbeat jazz techno heaven! Blueprints for broken and drum and bass.

Landcruising? - Carpenter-esque arpeggiated synth travelogues.

4 Jazz Funk Classics? - this is such a great EP. the drums might be distorted but those deep space bleeps and funk samples! Also some beautiful stuff on the other 69 records.

And the real earliest releases are the BFC things which are really blissed out / smeared sounding with buried melodies.

I guess the Paperclip People tracks are sometimes intentionally crude, but they really, really work. If anything where he's not as good these days is in using more software - with CC it was always about the mix dynamics and the sound of crunchy hardware / loosely chopped breaks.

Bang Diddley
25-04-2008, 12:12 PM
yeah, check for 'desire' under his 69 guise, it's such a moving tune.

bassnation
25-04-2008, 12:25 PM
I guess the Paperclip People tracks are sometimes intentionally crude, but they really, really work. If anything where he's not as good these days is in using more software - with CC it was always about the mix dynamics and the sound of crunchy hardware / loosely chopped breaks.

the paperclip people is his best work, hands down. if you've ever seen throw drop in a really good buzzing house club back in the day you will know exactly what i mean. the album is bonkers, like every track can destroy a club. very unusual for dance lps. his more considered techno output is also good (at les in particular) and some of his remixes are amazing. i don't really dig bug in the bassbin tho and its influence on jungle is massively overstated.

likewise hes a patchy producer with moments of genius with his forays into jazz funk being cringingly bad. and his djing.... well, lets just say some people are better producers than they are at spinning and should maybe play to their strengths.

some remixes i love of his are "better nation" by bandulu, "flash" by green velvet (a rolling tribal bass monster that used to get played at cream back in the mid nineties before it got shit), "angola" by lusafrica and "out of the storm" by icognito (maybe the only time i've ever liked one of their tracks).

as for techno being better now (i dispute this, but i'm out of the loop these days, esp. concerning minimal) you have to remember the nineties was ten years, most of technos evolution occurred in that time. the point where i stopped listening was when everyone was on the crushing two bar loop thing (jeff mills has a lot to answer for). the early nineties, however, was by far (for me anyway) the most fallow productive phase with loads of mad ravey acidy gear smashing dances up. UR did their best stuff back then and techno quite easily shared space with 'ardkore tracks. most people agree that 1994 was a vintage year for techno.

UFO over easy
25-04-2008, 12:40 PM
as for techno being better now (i dispute this, but i'm out of the loop these days, esp. concerning minimal) you have to remember the nineties was ten years, most of technos evolution occurred in that time. the point where i stopped listening was when everyone was on the crushing two bar loop thing (jeff mills has a lot to answer for). the early nineties, however, was by far (for me anyway) the most fallow productive phase with loads of mad ravey acidy gear smashing dances up. UR did their best stuff back then and techno quite easily shared space with 'ardkore tracks. most people agree that 1994 was a vintage year for techno.

for sure, that's why I made sure not to say that anything was 'better' than anything else, cos I lack the proper perspective to make any sweeping statements like that :)

I'm really trying to educate myself here though, and I think part of my problem is that I'm still quite disassociated from the whole techno lineage - I've heard a lot and like a lot but it's all fragments, I don't have any sense of a continuum or anything like it as everything I hear is from different periods and probably different scenes in different places. I think what I really need is a comprehensive history lesson, but techno and house are so vast and have been global for so long that it seems a lot harder to do that than with something like jungle.

elgato
25-04-2008, 01:07 PM
Ben, with regard to your quandry, what stuff is a good example of the kind of thing you don't connect with? cos the Can Remix love complicates the picture!


I cant believe theres so little love for cc's recent work here, the dela+gavin revelee remix from last year still leaves me gawping in a daze. I knows he's formulaic at times (no kick for ages, one filter tweaked for ages, clap, clap, clap, clap, clapclap) but

my feelings exactly, i love his old stuff, but a fair bit of his new material too. interestingly i didn't really like his new stuff that much until i went back and heard his old stuff, which is quite curious

noel emits
25-04-2008, 01:08 PM
the paperclip people is his best work, hands down. if you've ever seen throw drop in a really good buzzing house club back in the day you will know exactly what i mean.
Yes, yes I have.

i don't really dig bug in the bassbin tho and its influence on jungle is massively overstated.
I went to Speed quite a bit when it started and Fabio quite often played it at 45. In that context it did seem to play a big role in ushering in those early 'musical' forays. I know you a hardcore / original junglist type person bassnation but that club was one of those things that was evolving very fast in real time from week to week for a good while. Some fantastic music got played down there first. There's a bit of inverted snobbery around 'artcore' and 'intelligent' d&b - it was very exciting and necessary at the time I think, before things got too poncy and self conscious.

and his djing.... well, lets just say some people are better producers than they are at spinning and should maybe play to their strengths.
Selection and flow over tight mixing. It's fine by me - I prefer that than some robot with average records.

bassnation
25-04-2008, 01:14 PM
Yes, yes I have.

I went to Speed quite a bit when it started and Fabio quite often played it at 45. In that context it did seem to play a big role in ushering in those early 'musical' forays. I know you a hardcore / original junglist type person bassnation but that club was one of those things that was evolving very fast in real time from week to week for a good while. Some fantastic music got played down there first. There's a bit of inverted snobbery around 'artcore' and 'intelligent' d&b - it was very exciting and necessary at the time I think, before things got too poncy and self conscious.


ok i'll accept that. in fact i'll admit to loving bukems early stuff (and that first mix he did, the name of which escapes me). demons theme is mental. also one of my favourite hardcore tracks is good looking 002 - bukem and tayla "bang the drum" which i used on one of those old mixes. its pretty early but even then you can see bukems style emerging loud and clear. i remember when they toured the big house clubs though, and they'd totally confuse the ravers with their 10 minute breakdowns. maybe people just weren't open-minded enough.


Selection and flow over tight mixing. It's fine by me - I prefer that than some robot with average records.

yeah but thats my issue with craig - he could play a blinder if he didn't have pretensions to being a "proper musician" - e.g. loads of flaccid jazzy bollocks. even if he solely played his own techno and house tracks, todd terry style, that would be better. but as you know, i'm blindly predjudiced when it comes to fuzak.

droid
25-04-2008, 01:21 PM
Selection and flow over tight mixing. It's fine by me - I prefer that than some robot with average records.

Sorry to butt in with an aside - but this false dichotomy really irks me, and its one of the most repeated opinions on DJing.

Id prefer to have both - and theres absolutely no reason why a decent DJ shouldn't be able to do both. One doesn't exclude the other.

noel emits
25-04-2008, 01:24 PM
Didn't say it did - I didn't mean to imply a dichotomy, just that I personally don't care if the mixing isn't hyper precise if the records are really great and played in a constructive order.

Funny enough - I originally typed 'droid' intead of robot. ;)

Actually I think the most important thing a DJ can do is to read the crowd and respond accordingly*. Without this even great mixing and top tunes won't really take the people anywhere.

* By this I don't necessarily mean giving them what they 'want', sometimes you have to give them what they need! ;)

noel emits
25-04-2008, 01:28 PM
the Can Remix love complicates the picture!
The Future Days remix is nice but the original is so exquisite and magical that I was seriously disappointed when it first came out. Might be easier to hear it as a distinct piece now tho.

bassnation
25-04-2008, 01:32 PM
The Future Days remix is nice but the original is so exquisite and magical that I was seriously disappointed when it first came out. Might be easier to hear it as a distinct piece now tho.

i didn't like his mix of floppy sounds "entertainment" which imo (the dub, anyway) is one of the darkest skeletal off-kilter NY house tracks ever committed to vinyl. its utterly minimal, clanking and alien - and what does craig do? turn it into an wishy washy epic odyseey utterly missing the point. when he ruins my favourite tunes he can just go away as far as i'm concerned.

sodiumnightlife
25-04-2008, 01:33 PM
I didn't mean to say techno today is better just that perhaps on balance I like it more. And I certainly have no issue with all craigs earlier stuff. I guess you just connect better with whatever you've grown up with, so where I can pinpoint cassy tracks to when i first heard them out I can't do that with older techno. I feel like i'm a digging hole here with no real point to make and am only confusing myself. Ignore me.

Bang Diddley
25-04-2008, 02:38 PM
for sure, that's why I made sure not to say that anything was 'better' than anything else, cos I lack the proper perspective to make any sweeping statements like that :)

I'm really trying to educate myself here though, and I think part of my problem is that I'm still quite disassociated from the whole techno lineage - I've heard a lot and like a lot but it's all fragments, I don't have any sense of a continuum or anything like it as everything I hear is from different periods and probably different scenes in different places. I think what I really need is a comprehensive history lesson, but techno and house are so vast and have been global for so long that it seems a lot harder to do that than with something like jungle.

The early late 80's are well represented on these two Warp compilations
mostly UK bleep and bass, sparse and heavy on the bass. I'd say they share a lot of elements with some of the techy dubstep around
http://www.discogs.com/release/648887
and
mostly techno and house
http://www.discogs.com/release/10194

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
27-04-2008, 02:47 PM
I'm really trying to educate myself here though, and I think part of my problem is that I'm still quite disassociated from the whole techno lineage - I've heard a lot and like a lot but it's all fragments, I don't have any sense of a continuum or anything like it as everything I hear is from different periods and probably different scenes in different places. I think what I really need is a comprehensive history lesson, but techno and house are so vast and have been global for so long that it seems a lot harder to do that than with something like jungle.

A very brief primer on trends in early-to-mid 90s techno then (and not definitive, so jump in and correct me!):

- lo-fi spacy disco-influenced art techno coming out of Detroit, building on what Derrick May was doing in the mid 80s. Carl Craig is maybe the best exponent of this - grab the 69 compilation called The Sound Of Music (a lot of the tracks on Food & Revlutionary Art are also from this period, such as At Les). His track Microlovr that he did as 69 is one of my two all-time favorite techno tracks. This stuff was in decline as dancefloor techno by the mid 90s, although it had a massive influence on intelligent techno, IDM and artcore jungle.

- also coming out of Detroit (though it soon spread elsewhere) - hard as nails, almost ascetic minimal techno. Namely Jeff Mills and Robert Hood. Check Hood's first two albums and the Waveform Transmissions stuff. Although some of this stuff is ace (especially Hood, who at his best was making music on a par with minimal art music composers like Steve Reich), by 1996 it had totally muscled out dreamy art music side of techno to become the dominant influence, at least as far as the dancefloor was concerned. Not good.

- Also massive at the time was the tuff, ravier euro-techno sound being created by benelux producers, of whom CJ Bolland was the most visible. Unashamedly big-rig dance music, these tunes had tight, chunky production and more crowd-orientated arrangements than the american/uk techno that preceded them. Although it was written out of 'proper' techno for being too populist, Bolland pretty much wrote the book on hard 4/4 electronic dance music and his influence is all over hard house, hardcore techno, schranz and other hardcore populist styles. I've been coming back to these tunes a lot lately and there is some wicked music in there. Labels to check are R&S and Touche.

- Closely allied to the low countries euro-techno sound was the big, open-sounding techno coming out of Germany in the immediate aftermath of reunification. In contrast to the fretful minor-key melodies of Detroit techno, or the clanging anti-melodies found in a lot of Uk and Belgian tracks, this German techno had cosmic, anthemic melodies influenced by Tangerine Dream and 80s euro-disco. By 1993 this was being called 'trance-techno' and by 95 it had split off into trance, a completely seperate genre, helped by the goa/hippy scene that had no use for hard, dystopian techno. Music: check the album Kitchen by Sun Electric and the first Alter Ego album (both wicked techno albums), the Trance Europe Express compilations, and the general 92-95 output of the Harthouse/Eye-Q labels.

- also worth mentioning is the back-to-the-303 movement, spearheaded by Richie Hawtin's early tracks as FUSE. Key areas for this were Holland (Unit Mobius, Shiver, early Djax) and the American midwest (Communique and all thier associated family of labels, plus the Drop Bass Network). No coincidence that both of these are also key regions in the development of gabber, and the new acid at it's most industrial and banging segued pretty neatly into the gabber soundworld.

The overriding point here is that prior to 1995, most DJs would play records from all of these factions within a single set, as well as tougher deep house tracks and even some breakbeat. The factionalism hadn't really started yet.

What happened next... 'Proper' techno got noisier and more monochrome as the 90s progressed, until most techno tracks were just rhythm loops, often with wilfully substandard production. 1998 was when the quality really dropped - that was the year that I pretty much stopped buying dancefloor techno. I used to rave to techno of this stripe all the time 10 years ago, now I can't hardly listen to it. Hairshirted dance music made by angry young men.

The abandonment of melody and sensuality in techno opened the door for people like Isolee to make complex, crisply produced digital psychedelia, and lay the foundations for what is now called minimal. Key factor here is the use of computer recording, which was becoming more widespread in the late 90s, with the first soft synths starting to appear. As an aside, a lot of the roughness of 90s techno came about purely because producers were using budget hardware - which makes the phatness of Bolland and the german producers all the more impressive. And so much of the problems in late 90s techno came from producers' luddite fetishization of this roughness as a mark of authenticity.

For various reason, all the back-to-the-303 producers had pretty much stopped making music of that sort by the late 90s. The scenes that had been hammering those records, such as the UK squat raves, had to start making thier own tracks instead, which is where the Liberators and the Stay Up Forever label came from. Although they only took the most banging, blaring-est punk techno elements from thier predecessors, which is why I still prefer the early 90s tracks.

By the millenium, a lot of techno producers had taken the 90s blueprint as far as they could. There was a concerted effort to find ways of getting melody, emotion and sexiness back into the music. The whole electro/italo/new wave influence that contemporary techno has came out of this - you won't find that in 90s techno at all (I remember getting the first Dopplereffekt 12" and playing it over and over, I just couldn't figure out why people would make music this way. It was totally out on it's own.)

I love a lot of the nouveaux disco stuff but when I listen back to those 90s tracks there's a kind of raw futurism that's been lost somewhere. Once you've opened the Pandora's box of 'retro', it's very hard to get that spirit of rushing into the future back again - you're always making music with a backward glance. Bassnation said up above that 1994 was a vintage year for techno and I'd agree with that - for me, great music happens when producers are riding a fine line between satisfing thier own progressive agenda, and feeding the short term needs of a genuinely popular subcultural movement. It never happens for more than a few years, but from 93-95 techno was in that sweet spot.

elgato
27-04-2008, 03:18 PM
thanks for that post GFC :) really interesting and informative

Alfons
27-04-2008, 07:08 PM
thanks for that post GFC :) really interesting and informative

2nded! Really informative, explains a lot and makes a lot of things which I had thought about explicit. A couple of questions:

Where does the minimalism of Basic Channel, Maurizio, Rhythm & Sound etc... fit into this outline? And can the current minimal stuff also be seen as a reaction to the hard loop based stuff of the late 90s? Where did the first detroit strand kind of thing go as the 90s progressed?

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
27-04-2008, 08:25 PM
2nded! Really informative, explains a lot and makes a lot of things which I had thought about explicit.

Cheers :). I'm not setting myself up to be some kind of expert on techno, but I was buying a lot of records, going out dancing a lot, and generally keeping close tabs on the scene during this period.

I've also ignored techno-as-listening-music for the sake of clarity, although the better producers always dabbled in both camps.


Where does the minimalism of Basic Channel, Maurizio, Rhythm & Sound etc... fit into this outline?

Basic Channel was like a concerted, slightly self conscious effort to move the sound in a certain direction by a big producer, like what Mills/Hood were doing. Mauritzio had made and engineered loads of techno records prior to doing BC. It took a while for the BC influence to percolate into techno - initially it was more deep house people who were creaming over thier tracks - but from 96 on you got loads of weak BC ripoffs coming through. Again, software synths and computer recording opened the floodgates (it's difficult to get the BC sound using just hardware). It kind of meshed with the glitch-house thing - lots of men in thick glasses making dance music you can't really dance to. Funny cos BC at thier best are very warm and organic, and the original BC tracks absolutely rock on a big system - Mauritzio is a legendary engineer, whatever you think of his production aesthetic.

Interesting to muse on what the historical intentions of BC were with respect to the 'big techno' of harthouse etc. That proto trance stuff always seemed to me to embody a huge optimistic 'YES!!!' coarsing through german culture in the years immediatly after the Berlin wall came down - whereas Basic Channel's music is crackly, fragile and haunted. When I first heard M7 I thought it sounded like the echos of tanks and artillary circulating through the tunnels under Berlin for 50 years. But no-one from Basic Channel has ever spoken about the music in those terms, and in any case ther ewas all kinds of techno being made in Berlin at that time, so maybe it's easy to read too much into that.


And can the current minimal stuff also be seen as a reaction to the hard loop based stuff of the late 90s?

A bit, maybe, in the sense that minimal fully embraces the possibilities of software composition whereas hard loopy techno had a massive 'keep it real' attitude to not using software. But I think minimal is more about producers coming out of glitch and IDM, who had that sense of texture and that off-beat approach to melody, and trying to make that work in a more accessable and dance-able way. I stopped buying electronic music completely for about 5 years for 2002-2007, the time when minimal really got going, so I'm not the best person to ask about that.

What's really fascinating me at the moment is Schranz, which is like a bouncy gabba version of all that bone hard 90s techno. I only heard of it recently, apparently DJ Rush started the whole thing. All the loopy techno producers absolutely hate it with a passion, even though it's blatently a slightly faster and better produced version of what they've been doing for years. Brilliant microcosm of the cognoscenti vs. hardcore dynamic right there :D.


Where did the first detroit strand kind of thing go as the 90s progressed?

Into IDM and armchair techno, mostly. Lots of UK producers like Kirk DeGeorgio and the Black Dog stayed on that tip, making some beautiful but pretty undanceable music. You can hear the ghost of those tracks in minimal today but the skeletal, fragile nature of it has gone. The magic of those tracks was in producers reaching far past the limitations of thier equipment. If I can just put on my Detroit rhapsodist hat for a moment, that style evolved as a fragile little ecosystem away from the big bad world - it was always transient, and once techno became a genuine commercial force in the early 90s it was doomed. The music since that has most resembled first wave Detroit techno has been ambient hardcore in 93-94 and proto dubstep in 2004-5 - they were both somewhere between the last embers of an old scene and the first rumblings of something new.

hurricane run
27-04-2008, 08:58 PM
"Basic Channel was like a concerted, slightly self conscious effort to move the sound in a certain direction by a big producer, like what Mills/Hood were doing. Mauritzio had made and engineered loads of techno records prior to doing BC. It took a while for the BC influence to percolate into techno - initially it was more deep house people who were creaming over thier tracks - but from 96 on you got loads of weak BC ripoffs coming through. Again, software synths and computer recording opened the floodgates (it's difficult to get the BC sound using just hardware). It kind of meshed with the glitch-house thing - lots of men in thick glasses making dance music you can't really dance to. Funny cos BC at thier best are very warm and organic, and the original BC tracks absolutely rock on a big system - Mauritzio is a legendary engineer, whatever you think of his production aesthetic."
Carl Craig had some link up in the early days of BC. At the time I was told the Q1.1 record was the slight yank, and he remixed domina (killer record). Oh and i forgot the Quadrant record (i think on planet E(?) but very much on the BC tip)

hurricane run
27-04-2008, 09:02 PM
Meant to say, 1994 was the year Chicago came back too. Beat that bitch with a bat etc.
1993(?) Altered states reissued on Djax up beats. Bigggg..

michael
28-04-2008, 04:50 AM
Carl Craig had some link up in the early days of BC. At the time I was told the Q1.1 record was the slight yank, and he remixed domina (killer record). Oh and i forgot the Quadrant record (i think on planet E(?) but very much on the BC tip)
Getting tenuous, but they both did rejigs of Manuel Gottsching's E2-E4... and Von Oswald and his old bandmate Thomas Fehlmann collabed with other Detroit techno producers like Eddie Flashing Fowlkes and Juan Atkins.

hamarplazt
28-04-2008, 06:04 AM
In contrast to the fretful minor-key melodies of Detroit techno, or the clanging anti-melodies found in a lot of Uk and Belgian tracks, this German techno had cosmic, anthemic melodies influenced by Tangerine Dream and 80s euro-disco. By 1993 this was being called 'trance-techno' and by 95 it had split off into trance, a completely seperate genre, helped by the goa/hippy scene that had no use for hard, dystopian techno.

Sorry, but this is just completely wrong. Have you ever heard goa trance? Most of it is really dark, brooding and dystopic, like a lot of the early trance in general. It has to do with the fact that trance basically developed as a combination of ebm and acid (as with new beat). Which brings me to a crucuial scene that is abscent from your history lesseon. While there were coming arty/minimal stuff from (mostly) Detroit and hard rave tracks from Belgium/Holland (not to mention bleep from England), Germany had its own very thriving techno scene that was related to the lowlands style - again through new beat - , but with a very strong element of electro and ebm. Ebm was actually a german proto-techno scene throughout most of the eighties, and when techno exploded in continental europe, it was partly build on that allready existing subculture. Which is why you can hear ebm so clearly in a lot of euro-styles - trance, gabber, acid-hardcore.

It's also worth noticing that the so-called "back to the 303"-sound was far from a retro thing. A lot of it was pushing acid into directions that was never thought of in the first place, and especially in germany it was a huge, huge movement connecting many different strands of what was considered "techno" there, from hardcore to trance to ambient to minimal and experimantal stuff. Some key names could be Hardfloor (obviously), Air Liquide, Thomas P Heckmann (Drax) and the whole Force Inc axis - Mike Ink, Biochip C etc.

noel emits
28-04-2008, 09:07 AM
And therein lies the problem of trying to draw a structuralist historical interpretation of a rhizomatic network of production innart.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
28-04-2008, 10:49 AM
Sorry, but this is just completely wrong. Have you ever heard goa trance? Most of it is really dark, brooding and dystopic, like a lot of the early trance in general. It has to do with the fact that trance basically developed as a combination of ebm and acid (as with new beat). Which brings me to a crucuial scene that is abscent from your history lesseon. While there were coming arty/minimal stuff from (mostly) Detroit and hard rave tracks from Belgium/Holland (not to mention bleep from England), Germany had its own very thriving techno scene that was related to the lowlands style - again through new beat - , but with a very strong element of electro and ebm. Ebm was actually a german proto-techno scene throughout most of the eighties, and when techno exploded in continental europe, it was partly build on that allready existing subculture. Which is why you can hear ebm so clearly in a lot of euro-styles - trance, gabber, acid-hardcore.

Fair comment, I've never been that into trance. Thinking about what I have heard, you're probably right. There is that strain of really robotic psy-trance isnt there? I suppose 'dystopic' is a term that's open to quite a wide interpretation. I think 'cosmic' might be the key term in describing trance - trance aspires to be cosmic in a way that most techno doesn't.

EBM was a very niche scene in the UK and it didn't have much of an influence on the rave scene here, but you're spot on about it's influence on euro techno, definitely.

Pestario
28-04-2008, 10:59 AM
I know the mindless two-beat loop stuff is sort of being slated here but what are the big name djs who pushed this stuff? I got Jeff Mills and Robert Hood down but who else was there? I'm looking to download some sets.

noel emits
28-04-2008, 11:14 AM
We've been over this before no this forum but I agree with GFC's original post in as far as Trance can't be said to have simply descended from EBM and Acid. The techno-trance sound, Harthouse and so on, had lots of Berlin School 'cosmic' synth music in it. And it was most often described as techno-trance, there wasn't so much of a distinction there until around '95.

hamarplazt
28-04-2008, 02:23 PM
Fair comment, I've never been that into trance. Thinking about what I have heard, you're probably right. There is that strain of really robotic psy-trance isnt there? I suppose 'dystopic' is a term that's open to quite a wide interpretation. I think 'cosmic' might be the key term in describing trance - trance aspires to be cosmic in a way that most techno doesn't.

Yes, certainly. "Cosmic" doesn't have to be warm and happy at all, at its best it's this ice cold, dark, vast sound. I think someone like Drax was really an expert in this field. On the other hand, I think there's very much a cosmic element in a lot of detroit techno as well.


We've been over this before no this forum but I agree with GFC's original post in as far as Trance can't be said to have simply descended from EBM and Acid. The techno-trance sound, Harthouse and so on, had lots of Berlin School 'cosmic' synth music in it.
Yes it had, but you could say the same about other strands of techno too. It was a common inspiration with the more chilled and arty producers I think, not a direct ancestor as such.

I knew a lot of trance heads back then, and none of them had heard about TD, Schulze etc. And the berlin school fundamentalists I knew didn't care much for trance, even if it was the kind of techno they had the least trouble with.

viktorvaughn
28-04-2008, 02:36 PM
Man himself at Plastic People.
http://www.littledetroit.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24047&sid=67bd5513161180ea4f42d2441d81d920

Surgeon this Saturday too at PP.

Edward
28-04-2008, 02:56 PM
This is hilariously contentious, confusing and wrong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_beat

noel emits
28-04-2008, 08:56 PM
Yes it had, but you could say the same about other strands of techno too. It was a common inspiration with the more chilled and arty producers I think, not a direct ancestor as such.
Silly to argue about but I do disagree ;) I'm talking about early to mid 90s techno-trance, it's basically KS & TD synth music with added 303 and 909. I don't think you could say that about most other strains of techno - those big pads, arps and spacey themes. But there was a lot going on and terms and reference points vary.

I knew a lot of trance heads back then, and none of them had heard about TD, Schulze etc.
I always hated it when you would encounter techno fans who had no sense of any earlier music but I'd be surprised if most producers hadn't encountered those artists? Possible I suppose.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
28-04-2008, 09:04 PM
On the other hand, I think there's very much a cosmic element in a lot of detroit techno as well.

Spiritual, yes, definitely. Not really cosmic though. Cosmic implies something that's on an inhuman scale, what makes detroit techno stand out is the humanity of it (what all that journo guff about 'machine soul' was driving at, probably). I suppose Mills can get quite cosmic in his duller moments.

Totally agree with you that the cosmic vibe can be a dark, brooding one. 'The Brooding Cosmos' could be the name of an Arthur C Clarke story ;)

hamarplazt
29-04-2008, 07:56 AM
Silly to argue about but I do disagree ;) I'm talking about early to mid 90s techno-trance, it's basically KS & TD synth music with added 303 and 909.
I've heard this claim before, and I just don't see it at all. Sure, there's some elements here and there, the use of sequencers sometimes, or the thick pads elsewhere, but that doesn't just make it TD with beats. Could you give some examples?

hamarplazt
29-04-2008, 08:07 AM
Spiritual, yes, definitely. Not really cosmic though. Cosmic implies something that's on an inhuman scale, what makes detroit techno stand out is the humanity of it (what all that journo guff about 'machine soul' was driving at, probably).
Indeed, this "humanity" is why I often think detroit techno is dull and regressive. But what about UR and their outer space journeys, they weren't all just jazz fluff - Acid Rain III or Rings of Saturn, not much humanity on those records. And Manuel Goettsching is a well known influence, the germans generally got more "subtle" and, er, "human" I guess, in the eighties, and some of their records from that time have much of a detroit art techno feel. Also, Carl Craigs "Landcruising" is totally cosmic, almost a TD homage in parts.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
29-04-2008, 09:03 AM
Indeed, this "humanity" is why I often think detroit techno is dull and regressive. But what about UR and their outer space journeys, they weren't all just jazz fluff - Acid Rain III or Rings of Saturn, not much humanity on those records. And Manuel Goettsching is a well known influence, the germans generally got more "subtle" and, er, "human" I guess, in the eighties, and some of their records from that time have much of a detroit art techno feel. Also, Carl Craigs "Landcruising" is totally cosmic, almost a TD homage in parts.

Yeah, I was thinking about UR. Also Kenny Larkin's 'War Of The Worlds' is a good example of cosmic Detroit techno. But I think they're exceptions to the rule.

Part of the humanity of Detroit techno is that it's being made on pretty amateurish equipment, so there's that connnection to individual endeavour - the production values are light years behind the early german trance records, where the producers usually had access to proper studios. This is a hangover from the EBM scene I guess. Sheffield was one of the few places in the UK where electronic musicians had cheap access to proper studio/mastering facilities (thanks to FON and Caberet Voltaire's studio, set up in the 70s/80s) - you can really hear that in the production values of the early warp stuff, the mastering etc is spot on.

noel emits
29-04-2008, 09:12 AM
I've heard this claim before, and I just don't see it at all. Sure, there's some elements here and there, the use of sequencers sometimes, or the thick pads elsewhere, but that doesn't just make it TD with beats. Could you give some examples?
Well right now my reference point for saying that is that I listened to this Harthouse Retrospective (http://www.discogs.com/release/927) all the way through recently as a refresher and a great deal of it struck me as basically being German space music with a techno beat. Of course I realise that in part that's going to be a sound you are likely to get when using analogue synths and step sequencers in a certain way.

Also think of Cosmic Baby as someone doing early Trance with a quite explicit 70s space music vibe. Dr. Motte too.

But perhaps the most direct links can be made for people like Pete Namlook (of course), Oliver Lieb, Air Liquide, Sven Vath... so I guess it could be more Frankfurt School than Berlin ;)

I'm not saying that this music is just 'TD with 909s' but there is at least as much of that in there as there is EBM or acid.

Bang Diddley
29-04-2008, 11:22 AM
We've been over this before no this forum but I agree with GFC's original post in as far as Trance can't be said to have simply descended from EBM and Acid. The techno-trance sound, Harthouse and so on, had lots of Berlin School 'cosmic' synth music in it. And it was most often described as techno-trance, there wasn't so much of a distinction there until around '95.

never been into trance but productions by red planet aka the martian from detroit must of influenced trance sound before it caught on in europe. stardancer is a fine example and its from 93.

noel emits
29-04-2008, 11:34 AM
No doubt. All these things feed into each other and feed back. And there weren't such big generic divides between house / techno / trance etc. at that time.

Depends what you mean by 'caught on' but the trance sound was big in Europe way before '93, although not as big as it would get of course.

Anyway, enough about trance already! This is the thread for Sir Carl of Craig.

hamarplazt
29-04-2008, 09:01 PM
Anyway, enough about trance already!
No way, this is much more interesting than talking about Craig.


Well right now my reference point for saying that is that I listened to this Harthouse Retrospective (http://www.discogs.com/release/927) all the way through recently as a refresher and a great deal of it struck me as basically being German space music with a techno beat. Of course I realise that in part that's going to be a sound you are likely to get when using analogue synths and step sequencers in a certain way.
...
I'm not saying that this music is just 'TD with 909s' but there is at least as much of that in there as there is EBM or acid.
I know all this stuff you talk about, I bought it when it was originally released and still own it, and I was a big Schulze/TD-fan prior to that, and STILL it doesn't sound like there's all that much berlin school in it to me. The similarities are just on the surface. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while some cosmic elements was added to the trance sound, it's origin, it's basic genetic material, was ebm and acid. It was not berlin school die hards who invented trance, it was ebm veterans like Talla 2xlc, Všth, Atom Heart, Overlords, Goa Gil, Koxbox etc.).



But perhaps the most direct links can be made for people like Pete Namlook (of course), Oliver Lieb, Air Liquide, Sven Vath... so I guess it could be more Frankfurt School than Berlin ;)
Pete Namlook: Probably the one most influenced by TD/Schulze. But he mostly made ambient.
Oliver Lieb: While he was very cosmic in a conceptual way, with all his space effects and sci fi titles, his beats are really mad and hyperactive with none of the majestic drift of the cosmic tradition. He's a really odd one, the Hyper-on Experience of trance.
Air Liquide: Not really trance, but very much cosmic, yes. Much acid too. Practically no ebm. Were from Cologne, btw.
Sven Všth: More of a symphonic prog/Vangelis-influence than berlin school I think. I haven't heard the barbarella album, but his later stuff didn't sound much like either TD/KS or ebm. His sound is actually quite original, even if it's not very good.

Cosmic Baby is an interesing one too. Like Lieb there's all these space concepts in his stuff, and these big pads, but really, as with most of the Harthouse stuff, try and compare the basic structure of the music, the beats and sequencers, with TD or Schulze. Trance is pumping, stomping, precission locked in very much the same way as ebm or even Hi-NRG disco. With the berlin school it more like a combination of psychedelic rock and minimal classical music, endlessly shifting solos circling softly bubbling sequencers, the tracks slowly drifting and subtly changing over a long, long time.

Bang Diddley
30-04-2008, 08:53 AM
Anyway, enough about trance already! This is the thread for Sir Carl of Craig.

yup, has this been mentioned already . . .
http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/948/?pageno=1

ive only had a skim read, but it mentions a number of names that have appeared in this thread.

sodiumnightlife
30-04-2008, 09:22 AM
that wire article is a really good read.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
30-04-2008, 04:59 PM
Yeah I enjoyed it. The bit where he's talking about tape edits is class - a mile of tape for a 15 minute track! F&%£ that...