Revolutionary Road

Lichen

Well-known member
Arrived yesterday and I'm hooked. Great suggestion. Only 30 pages in so nowt to report, as such. Will get stuck in over Christmas and report back.
 

jenks

thread death
Glad you like it - i have just fished it off the shelf and have read the first ten pages or so - really looking forward to a proper reading session when all the family is out doing something appropriately Christmassy whilst i cement my reputation as curmudgeonly old git who only wants peace and quiet to read his books!
 

you

Well-known member
Didnt really take to this one at first, I loved the opening scene but then found the slipping back into frank's and aprils histories abit annoying, now im accustomed to it and actually enjoy this shfting, really feel its a very poignant and touching way to express a situation or mood.

Just got to the chapter about shep and his lusting, I wont say any more than that.
 

Bettysnake

twisted pony ******
I loved this book.... Like a more depressing John Updike.

I'm reading Life, End of by Christine Brooke-Rose which is fabulous.

However I am famous amongst my friends for enjoying depressing novels.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Sorry for delay on this, I've just been so incredibly busy. I promise to start reading today or tomorrow....
 

jenks

thread death
I'm nearly finished

I read it originally about five years ago and thought of it as a fifities Fitzgerald but now feel it's something much more modern and really rather brilliant - the portrayals of the marriages in this book and the craven nature of the major character - very gripping stuff. i look forward to the discusson asap.
 

Lichen

Well-known member
Yes. Great. And the subject of its modernity is one I wanted to talk about.

I read it very quickly indeed. Now my wife has started it. Happily, niether us recoginsestoo much of our own marriage in April and Frank's.
 

you

Well-known member
I finished this a while ago, I feel pretty indifferent to it, I couldn't really empathize with the characters or make sense of what they did or didn't want with their lives. The only bits I thought were cool would be the opening pages about time and how humans use it ( this i thought was the center of the book, the most important part for me ) - frank especially was a sucker to 'time' his relationship, his life, his career were all pivoting around his imposed sense of time and schedule. Also the absurdity of John Givings friendship with the Wheelers ( that the only guy to really agree with their hopes and dreams is an insane, or certified insane, man .... c'mon frank are you MAD? What do you expect? What do you want?... ) - but neither of these things were really built upon. Time crushing hopes and dreams etc yadada all well and good, and did happen within the story, I just thought the two aspects I liked could have been developed to give the 'Time, and hopes and dreams' facet of the book more colour and shape, instead I just felt I was left with an average story.

Maybe if it was four times longer with Frank and april wasting away their lives on umpteen different pipe plans and dreams??

Maybe after some discussion ill see what ive missed and come around to it a bit.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Well, I started about ten minutes ago and I'm about twenty pages in. Promising so far as much as one can say and it's already depressing.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Started reading properly on the bus on the way in and I'm enjoying it, with a few qualifications. The writing style is very nice and simple yet also has a little bit more to it than is really captured by that description. It's similar to Austerlitz (also your suggestion I think Jenks?) in that respect, it's very nice to read basically, the pages turn themselves. Not that the actual style is similar as such, it's just that each style reads in a way that is very pleasant and seems deceptively effortlessly written.
The qualifications are regarding some of the staged set-pieces. I feel that very often in other books I've read scenes where things start well and then go wrong in a deliberately horrific (horrific in the context of a novel about a suburban family I mean) way and this happens a lot in this book. It's a very common technique where you have the scene from the main characters view and he thinks he is in control and then suddenly it goes out of control and it describes him thinking about how he ought to be able to deal with it and somehow he just can't and you are forced to watch him fucking up in a fairly uncomfortable and frustrating way. I'm not sure if I'm really saying very well what I mean here but it's something that happens in a lot of books and I find it both cliched and slightly hard to accept (perhaps because I find it cliched).
 

Lichen

Well-known member
The qualifications are regarding some of the staged set-pieces. I feel that very often in other books I've read scenes where things start well and then go wrong in a deliberately horrific (horrific in the context of a novel about a suburban family I mean) way and this happens a lot in this book. It's a very common technique where you have the scene from the main characters view and he thinks he is in control and then suddenly it goes out of control and it describes him thinking about how he ought to be able to deal with it and somehow he just can't and you are forced to watch him fucking up in a fairly uncomfortable and frustrating way. I'm not sure if I'm really saying very well what I mean here but it's something that happens in a lot of books and I find it both cliched and slightly hard to accept (perhaps because I find it cliched).


I'd agree that this is a common tool in fiction and drama, and could be understood as cliché; emotional Mr Beanism.

But I think these micro-denouement are effective because they echo the wider failure of Frank and April's lives: Frank is dishonest in all dealings, with himself and other people so he's always on collision course with reality.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"emotional Mr Beanism"
Like it.

"But I think these micro-denouement are effective because they echo the wider failure of Frank and April's lives: Frank is dishonest in all dealings, with himself and other people so he's always on collision course with reality."
Fair points. I just hope that there aren't too many more of this heavily sign-posted car crashes coming up because they are my least favourite parts of the story so far.
And is it just me or is the wife a totally unreasonable cow? Perhaps I have more to learn about her though so don't spoil it for me.
 

jenks

thread death
I think the way it opens up in section 2 is interesting. The first section whilst third person is quite clearly sitting on Frank's shoulder - we are supposed to see things from his pov (with the ability also to stand back and judge his failings).

I'm 60 pages from the end a nd have really enjoyed it again - it does have set pieces but I think that is the nature of dealing with what is essentially a traditional novel structure. when he has frank boil up whilst laying the path - his petty self-justifications and impotent rage seem spurbly observed.

I suppose at some stage we will talk about what this novel is attempting to say about marriage, the american dream, psychology practices, business and advertising at a later stage. It seems to me that this late 50s/early sixties context is particularly rich - a pre Beatles era, before as Larkin claims 'sex was invented'.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"it does have set pieces but I think that is the nature of dealing with what is essentially a traditional novel structure. when he has frank boil up whilst laying the path - his petty self-justifications and impotent rage seem spurbly observed."
That was (one of) the exact bits I was thinking of when I complained. Just seemed a bit too convenient the way that he lashed out at his kids, driving them to their mother at the very worst time.
The rest of what you say I can't comment on yet. Still, lunch in a minute and I may be able to read a few more pages.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
OK, pressing on to part two, seems a bit heavy-handed (reminds me of Bonfire Of The Vanities in a way), I've got a feeling that they aren't going to make it to Europe somehow.... I guess that's the point of course but still...
 

you

Well-known member
Yeah, not half as subtle as other books ive read, and I came off feeling indifferent towards these characters petty problems. Although Franks masculinity issues are, for at least, one of the better facets of the book, I still just cant really sympathize. The laying of the path, the kids the domestic metaphors etc are all way too obvious for me to relate to. April - I just didnt get her. She could have been a plant pot for all I care, I engaged with Mrs Givings character much more, in comparison April felt very flat.

A thumbs down from me, I just dont need freudian repression/ notions of emasculation etc to be sign posted quite so much.

That said it is a good read, quite a page turner, and the slipping through present events through to memories in order to colour a characters situation is very effective..
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"I engaged with Mrs Givings character much more"
That's strange, I was just reading the bit with her in on the bus this morning and I thought it was terrible. I'm glad the book is such an easy read because I don't think that I would finish it otherwise. She just seems like another cipher standing in for dissatisfaction with the American dream. I said heavy-handed before and I think I'll stick with that summation; the madman as the only sane person, the obviousness of Frank being offered a promotion (I knew that was going to happen as soon as he was called into the office), the lifeline offered by the pregnancy - all too clearly sign-posted.
 

Lichen

Well-known member
So perhaps it's apt. to ask why you are pushing on with it (other than for the benefit of discussion here)?

I understand your opinions about the subtelty; the plot does lumber to its inevitable conclusion. Nonetheless, I founf it precisely observed and beautifully written. That was enough to draw me in and forgive the clumsier machinations.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"So perhaps it's apt. to ask why you are pushing on with it (other than for the benefit of discussion here)?"
Well, I was exaggerating slightly perhaps, I hardly ever abandon books half way through. Plus, it's not really taking up much of my time, two bus rides and a lunch hour so far. Also I do think that there is benefit in the discussion here and that's not a bad reason to read it. I liked what you said before about Frank being dishonest with himself for example. To me the point of the book club is to read books and talk about them, I don't expect to like every one that gets selected.

"Nonetheless, I founf it precisely observed and beautifully written. That was enough to draw me in and forgive the clumsier machinations."
I'd half agree with that. I find it well written but I'm not sure about the well observed bit. Maybe it is and it's just that I'm not familiar with people and situations he is observing. I certainly don't recognise the characters.
 
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