Anatomy of a Murder - rape attitudes

I just watched 'Big' with Tom Hanks and had that similar feeling of 'you just couldn't make this nowadays'. I'll have to check out Anatomy of a Murder tho, haven't seen it.

Never seen the movie, but it sounds like Lee Remick is meant to be an ambivalent kind of character (meaning that's the way the audience is supposed to respond to her). Do you think she was intended to be a sympathetic character?

Also, is she sexy/presented as sexy? Because that prevents the whole "he destroyed the flower of my womanhood" kind of thing that was the other thing rape depictions were about in those days.. destroying a woman's worth through making her 'used' or 'tainted.' If she has no worth by already being sexualized instead it becomes about her worth as her husband's property, or her husbands ability to control her/access to her.

Try watching "Saturday Night Fever" -- similarly shocking in terms of how it (doesn't) deal with rape, although in that case one (gang) rape is mostly treated as a moment for the male protagonist to think about what's wring in his own life, where in another place he actually attempts to rape the famle protagonist, which is also supposed to show how he's all confused and we are supposed to try to figure him out.

I couldn't believe it when I watched it - nobody had told me about the rape scenes and I was totally not expecting it.

Though I haven't seen this movie and it does sound like its depiction of a rape victim is pretty atypical in certain ways, I can't say I'm surprised to hear about the representations you've described in it.

When I think about it, I must say that I really haven't ever seen a film (and please point me to counterexamples if you can think of any--would love to see some) that depicts rape in a respectful way that avoids all misogynistic pitfalls. There seem to be a few basic forms of hideous double-standard reinforcing fear of female sexuality based misogyny in every film that I've seen that involves rape. There's

1) The depiction of rape as horrific not because it a gross violation of personal space that causes psychological trauma (including panic attacks, PTSD, depression, body dysmorphia, eating disorders, anxiety disorders, etc.) and can severely and dramatically impact the quality of life of a victim, but as a sort of violent act that is at the heart of all sexual interaction, just barely repressed by the "civilizing" forces of society, always on the verge of being teased out by any woman who is *stupid* and *foolish* enough to walk the streets alone after dark, or wear something provocative. In this depiction, it's up to women to be the gatekeepers of sexual morality and uphold the social code that in place to keep the raw animalism of male sexuality (which is reduced from a creative/productive impulse to an ugly act that is always essentially rape) in check.

In these movies, rape victims are the unfortunate byproduct of the victim's own "transgression" of society's sexual mores. There is only agency for women insofar as they can *provoke* the animal impulses of men--female subjectivity really reaches its apex in rape in this picture. Not surprisingly, rape victims in these films are usually hookers, strippers, or women who step outside the haven of the domecile in any way. Rapists are usually strangers in the night, often minorities or ex-cons or some mixture of the three. Funnily enough, the statistics about rape prove that rapists are most often known by their victim and rape usually does not take place in a dark alley after midnight.

2) The depiction of rape as ultimately occuring as a sort of "misunderstanding" between a generally well-meaning but teased-into-randiness-beyond-reason man and a "nice", innocent, and helpless young woman who despite her own chaste manner (or perhaps because of it) gives off mixed signals (usually by acting interested in the man, even kissing and/or engaging in "heavy petting", and of course, drinking alcohol) that are eventually her undoing. In these films, the rape victim is often so conflicted by her own sense of guilt, based on similar same social codes as discussed in the first scenario above, and so devastated by the potential that accusing her rapist publicly would have on her reputation and "honor" that she barely acknowledges that a rape occured. In this sort of moral universe, female sexuality exists only as a metonym for or token of female innocence. Sex is always "taken" from women. The major difference between this scenario and the first one is that men tend to be essentially gallant and well-meaning, rather than animalistic at the core, but easily seduced by the whore that can escape out of even the most committed virgin if she is not careful enough about following the social codes of sexual conduct to a t.

3) The depiction of rape as SUCH a completely, unbearably traumatic event that women can never recover from it--these films tend to be made ostensibly in order to shed light on the deepest darkest horrific reality of rape, with the intention of raising social awareness of rape as a social issue. The problem with these is that more often than not, they are just as offensive to the notion of female agency and subjectivity as the first two types because they exaggerate the idea that rape is "damaging" to such a ridiculous degree that they end up simply reinforcing the prevailing social norms regarding rape as a "shameful" experience that "dishonors" victims and makes them henceforth "no good" as sex objects in the sexual economy.

This is the most absurd sort in my opinion, and even cause the most harm culturally if you think about it, because despite the fact that they're obviously trying to spread a message that demonizes rape in a sufficient manner, they often end up supercharging the act of rape itself and giving it *too much power* in its ability to victimize victims. Watching these films, you eventually wonder why any victim of rape doesn't immediately kill herself, since her future is so completely ruined and there's really no hope that she may recover. These films often include rape scenes that are hideously and outrageously graphic, under the guise of wanting to shock people into understanding the true horror of the act through "realism". Of course, this usually makes them nothing better than rape fantasy porn legitimized by some stamp of social awareness building that Hollywood gives them. (What's that film about rape starring Jodie Foster?)

There are probably more types but these are the most common in my viewing experience.

IdleRich said:

Similarly in court when Remick's panties are produced as evidence and everyone in court laughs the judge quells it by saying "this is deadly serious, these represent evidence that could decide a man's fate" there is no mention of the fact that they also represent evidence that relates to the sexual attack on a young woman.

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Why did they laugh? Was it a sort of giggle at the naughtiness of seeing a woman's panties in public? This seems particularly insane.

I saw this years ago and can't remember it very well. But hasn't rape acquired much much more significance post-feminism than back when this film was made? In the post-war period you were only a couple of generations away from the days when men could legally beat their wives and punish them for refusing sex (Victorian England allowed a husband to lock a wife up if she did).

It doesn't surprise me at all that a 40s/50s film would adopt some variant of the 'have a cuppa and pull yourself together' approach.

crackerjack said:

In the post-war period you were only a couple of generations away from the days when men could legally beat their wives and punish them for refusing sex (Victorian England allowed a husband to lock a wife up if she did).

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The origin of the idiom "rule of thumb", no? A gentleman was permitted to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than a thumb.

Discussion of rape in film is incomplete without mention of the Japanese "Angel Guts" films based on the manga of the same name (impossible to find in an English translation). Numerous directors from the Nikkatsu studios took on this material with varied readings and mixed results. Often the rape is eroticized, sometimes it endows the victim with a preternatural power to exact brutal revenge, and in "Nami" (if I remember rightly), it is something like an infectious disease that corrupts everyone that is involved no matter how tangential (that is, even those that are reporting on the event, or merely reading about it).

The pinku genre explores this sex/violence/art nexus, though I haven't wandered too far out as they are truly a guilty pleasure. Well, the pleasure part is questionable (these films have a high "squirm" factor), but the lingering guilt is part of the experience, I guess.

In any case, killer soundtracks in every instance. A clear influence on John Zorn (I think the genre is mentioned in the liner notes of Naked City's Torture Garden).

There is a fantastic book called Eros in Hell about sex and violence in Japanese cinema that y'all should check out for further reading. Pretty/Horrible pictures inside. And a cursory google search yielded numerous books about Nikkatsu studio pinku productions that I haven't read...

Strayed a bit from the OP's post (a film I haven't seen, I admit) but yeah, somewhat on topic I hope.

IdleRich said:

Which bits? It's a long time since I've seen it and I don't remember anything like that (never liked it though).

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I brought up Big with reference to the imagined course this thread would take because it's a film about male sexuality written and directed by women, in which the male is returned/replaced as a 13 year old boy/protagonist, who then has a sexual relationship with a woman.. (I hasten to add I was watching it and for some reason thought the boy in it was 8 years old, which had me more shocked)..the male realises the impossibility of continuing this relationship, and is returned by the woman, whereby she sees him as he really is (very young adolescent) and manages to keep some of his 'youth' herself, whilst letting him 'return' to his mother, having taken him through his rite of passage.

It's a complex relationship which I don't know the word for - amongst males it would be pederasty. You certainly couldn't make a film of it now, and I brought it up for that reason and also to discuss female visions of sexuality - depictions of sexuality by women, of men or women or other - depicted on screen, of which I think 'Big' is a complex one.

I'd agree with nomad that there aren't any 'good' films -certainly from the west - about rape. I've always found Liquid Sky to be superb on it, but it also falls into madonna/whore paradigms, although it discusses them within it. The films that are normally brought up - The Accused, Irreversible* - I don't think elucidate much, whilst being admirable for at least talking about it, I think that's why they fall short, they are so congratulated for doing the 'taboo' that they never get further than the taboo.

I've never seen a good film about male on male rape - though The Rape Of Richard Beck and Penitentiary (and a host of other 70s male prison films) do go into it, esp Beck, obviously by the title, you may want to check it out. Protagonist is a misogynist cop who is 'cured' by being raped, quite an amazing vision.

*although the argument for Irreversible is that is goes so far into the pornographic that it becomes horrific (the entire premis of the film is one of transgression) which I think is true for the film but a sideline which would be too easy to get distracted by.

The origin of the idiom "rule of thumb", no? A gentleman was permitted to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than a thumb.

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Intersting. Knew about the law, but not that it was the origin of the phrase.

The origin of the idiom "rule of thumb", no? A gentleman was permitted to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than a thumb.

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Interesting. Knew about the law, but not that it was the origin of the phrase.