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zhao
24-03-2008, 12:54 PM
we have been thinking all along that Sumer was the first civilization, but this is beginning to be clearly false as excavations have been going on in recent years, and is still continuing, in present day Turkey, Iraq, etc., which is uncovering a previous civilization which pushes everything back another 5000 years at least.

giant stone pillars up to 20 meters tall which were used as part of temples to which people came from hundreds of kilometers to worship are being unearthed, and the date of their construction is said to be somewhere around 10,000 BC. (5000 years before the Sumerians in Mesopotamia).

this was related to me by a friend keen on such matters over some bad sushi saturday night, and has been on my mind ever since. i've been doing a bit of googling but i think none to very little information is available at this point as the excavations are still under way.

in archaeology circles it is certainly the norm for dates to be pushed back and back time and again as new discoveries surface, and people have been conjecturing about this for sometime, but I was still very much surprised to hear of it -- even though it does make sense somehow.

presumably agriculture and centralized power and written language existed in this civilization... i can't wait for them to finish digging and release some information... :rolleyes:

Mr. Tea
24-03-2008, 01:43 PM
I think the idea that Sumerian civilisation was the very 'first' civilisation is a bit outdated (i.e. I don't think historians and archaeologists really think that these days) - it was, however, the earliest civilisation to leave written records*, and therefore the oldest civilisation that we can talk about in terms of recorded history, rather than archaeological reconstruction and conjecture. Meaning, more or less, we know what their gods, kings, cities etc. were called, rather than simply that they existed.

If by a 'civilisation' you mean a group of people who built organised, permanent settlements or cities, Catal Huyuk (Turkey) goes back to the 8th millennium BC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catal_huyuk (although they left no writing, that I am aware of.)


*that we can read: the Indus Valley culture started a hell of a long time ago, but their script has not been deciphered

zhao
24-03-2008, 02:14 PM
yes, right...

Mr. Tea
24-03-2008, 02:19 PM
yes, right...

A somewhat cryptical response there, if may say so!

zhao
24-03-2008, 03:26 PM
oh i just wanted to acknowledge the information in your post without anything to add at present time. that's all

Mr. Tea
24-03-2008, 03:29 PM
oh i just wanted to acknowledge the information in your post without anything to add at present time. that's all

Ahh, I see. Cool, no worries.

polystyle desu
24-03-2008, 05:04 PM
It does appear that dates for earliest civilizations,
dates for 'humans' walking upright,
age of universe and more are getting revised with news almost weekly .
Makes sense , our 'len's' are getting better and one can guess quite a few earlier guess and ideas on this stuff were , well , best that could be done at the time but will often be revised.
Hey Zhao , here's to more conversations over better sushi.

HMGovt
24-03-2008, 08:41 PM
Had a huge argument with my brother some years ago about pre-ice age civilisations. You know, supposed discoveries of milled steel spheres found hundreds of metres underground that could only have come from advanced civilisations, tens of thousands of years ago. And what if there's a Manhattan under the ice caps, what if it was all washed away?

I countered by saying it's all bullshit and there's no evidence, though it would be cool if there had been an ancient technological civilisation, but to date, no fossil ipods have turned up.

Octopus?
24-03-2008, 09:44 PM
Had a huge argument with my brother some years ago about pre-ice age civilisations. You know, supposed discoveries of milled steel spheres found hundreds of metres underground that could only have come from an advanced civilisations, tens of thousands of years ago. And what if there's a Manhattan under the ice caps, what if it was all washed away?

Probably for the best...really the fewer encounters with rogue Shoggoths the better IMHO.

Mr. Tea
24-03-2008, 10:04 PM
Those huge stone spheres in South America are pretty creepy, though. I mean, WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY FOR? Puzzling the living fuck out of people thousands of years later, would be my guess.

swears
24-03-2008, 11:34 PM
This is an interesting thread idea, as long as it doesn't get too... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken

Mr. Tea
25-03-2008, 12:15 AM
This is an interesting thread idea, as long as it doesn't get too... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken

Good opportunity here to spam my mate's blog and associated forum:

http://www.badarchaeology.net/
http://www.badarchaeology.net/forum/

He openly takes as his inspiration Ben Goldacre's excellent Bad Science blog.

noel emits
26-03-2008, 03:16 PM
Look, ruling out the 'fringe' stuff is just going to make for a really boring thread.

In this video (in which the speaker attempts to tie together Roswell, crop circles and the end of the world with extremely tenuous numerology...), at around 7:30 onwards he has some pictures of a large stone object in Lebanon or Syria which looks artificially hewn and is supposedly 13,000 years old.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Aa5zNPqvbQ0&feature=user

Jaie Miller
26-03-2008, 03:50 PM
In this video (in which the speaker attempts to tie together Roswell, crop circles and the end of the world with extremely tenuous numerology...)

sounds like quite the feat...

Jaie Miller
26-03-2008, 03:55 PM
I have trouble accepting anything I can't say wasn't black first.

zhao
26-03-2008, 04:40 PM
I have trouble accepting anything I can't say wasn't black first.

the amphibious beings who first traveled to earth 2 million years ago on energy crafts and later helped the Egyptians build the pyramids can probably to be said to have been black.

Mr. Tea
26-03-2008, 04:42 PM
I have trouble accepting anything I can't say wasn't black first.

Too...many...negatives...brain...can't...cope...

Jaie Miller
26-03-2008, 04:46 PM
the amphibious beings who first traveled to earth 2 million years ago on energy crafts and later helped the Egyptians build the pyramids can probably to be said to have been black.

and the government is just going to allow you to bring this information to the masses?! I don't think so zhao

Mr. Tea
26-03-2008, 07:40 PM
They probably reflected light in some totally alien and unknowable wavelength.