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Jaie Miller
25-03-2008, 03:43 PM
I find there's nothing more dangerous. nothing more intimidating. Nothing more mind controlling than good looking people with all the stuff too. [nothing more evil]

you see/meet a good looking woman.

so you're good looking, but your stupid right?!!

oh, you're intelligent...

So you're good lookng and intelligent, but you're snooty right?!! ;)

oh, you're funny..

So you're good looking and intelligent and funny, but your intelligence somehow detters your creativity right?!!!!

oh, you're an artist....

so you're good looking and intelligent and funny and an artist, but you can't dance right?!!!

God damn it!!!!!

:mad:

Mr. Tea
25-03-2008, 03:45 PM
Don't worry, Jaie. She's probably shit at algebraic topology, or something.

zhao
25-03-2008, 05:03 PM
:D

there was this girl dressed as a stupid slut-candy at the club saturday night. tacky adult entertainment outfit. me and my friend Ella were making fun of her - well it's more Ella making fun of her and me going along - but secretly i was like "damn, girl's kinda... mmm hmm nasty in all the wrong but so raunchy right kinda way. and i think all the guys in the entire room secretly wanted a piece of the action. so she does the flirty kind of shy seductress thing and freaks me for a good 5 minutes at one point... i was very conflicted about openly getting down with her because... well Ella is kind of giving me subtle vibez too that night and our friendship is in the beginning stage that might turn into something else at any time and... also it's just a little embarrassing to have the official slut of the party riding your leg for any prolonged period of time. so i played it off like yeah I'll dance with you kinda nasty style a little bit but it's all just fun and games - exchanging quite a few knowing smiles with other dudes like "freak!" haha... but at the end of the night we trade cards and she's the director of this art gallery. I was like oh? and next day went online, and it's not a cheesy gallery at all, showing what looks like good solid work.

:slanted:

not sure if it was a good idea but i sent her SMS sunday afternoon -- was that a character last night or are you like that all the time?

:)

(is that funny or do you think she might take it the wrong way? i don't know if she knows who it's from but i think maybe)

so now the only option is to stop by there and check it/her out sometime soon.

zhao
25-03-2008, 05:09 PM
so jaie, what's the deal with this one? you gonna see her again or what?

Jaie Miller
25-03-2008, 06:54 PM
I dunno, how would you describe dudley perkins?

is it rightous? crazy? cool?

remember when he was on Gilles Peterson?

So this girl, we haven't met. It's more like when I walk past a dime on the street I think, ahhhh you should have drawed her, then I'm like nah fuck it she's probably stupid to make myself feel better. But nowdays, you know, a lot of em got stuff.

zhao
25-03-2008, 08:13 PM
I dunno, how would you describe dudley perkins?

is it rightous? crazy? cool?

Frizzy.

http://a121.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/25/m_3ead7bcef31a6bab1b6b6480b8fb49a8.jpg

nomadologist
26-03-2008, 03:28 AM
:D

there was this girl dressed as a stupid slut-candy at the club saturday night. tacky adult entertainment outfit. me and my friend Ella were making fun of her - well it's more Ella making fun of her and me going along - but secretly i was like "damn, girl's kinda... mmm hmm nasty in all the wrong but so raunchy right kinda way. and i think all the guys in the entire room secretly wanted a piece of the action. so she does the flirty kind of shy seductress thing and freaks me for a good 5 minutes at one point... i was very conflicted about openly getting down with her because... well Ella is kind of giving me subtle vibez too that night and our friendship is in the beginning stage that might turn into something else at any time and... also it's just a little embarrassing to have the official slut of the party riding your leg for any prolonged period of time. so i played it off like yeah I'll dance with you kinda nasty style a little bit but it's all just fun and games - exchanging quite a few knowing smiles with other dudes like "freak!" haha... but at the end of the night we trade cards and she's the director of this art gallery. I was like oh? and next day went online, and it's not a cheesy gallery at all, showing what looks like good solid work.

:slanted:

not sure if it was a good idea but i sent her SMS sunday afternoon -- was that a character last night or are you like that all the time?

:)

(is that funny or do you think she might take it the wrong way? i don't know if she knows who it's from but i think maybe)

so now the only option is to stop by there and check it/her out sometime soon.

What? This is a slightly disturbing scenario in my mind, because what on earth did this "nasty freaky" girl do wrong? What's wrong with dressing in something you like and dancing sexily if that makes you happy? What's wrong with going after sex if you want it? What does an open interest in sex have to do with a lack of intelligence or accomplishment in life? Umm, nothing, that's what. Sounds like Ella was jealous of the attention the other girl was getting.

I really hate the word "slut" applied to women who enjoy sex and are open about it.

You know, I'll never understand why men, if they want sex as much and as often as they claim to, seem to have a problem with women who also want a lot of sex, often, and aren't afraid to get it.

What gives? Oh yeah, the last few hundred thousand years of culturally sanction virgin-whore complex.

zhao
26-03-2008, 09:43 AM
what on earth did this "nasty freaky" girl do wrong? What's wrong with dressing in something you like and dancing sexily if that makes you happy? What's wrong with going after sex if you want it? What does an open interest in sex have to do with a lack of intelligence or accomplishment in life? Umm, nothing, that's what. Sounds like Ella was jealous of the attention the other girl was getting.

I really hate the word "slut" applied to women who enjoy sex and are open about it.

You know, I'll never understand why men, if they want sex as much and as often as they claim to, seem to have a problem with women who also want a lot of sex, often, and aren't afraid to get it.


nothing, nothing, nothing, and nothing wrong with anything she is or wore or did. you are right Ella certainly was jealous a little bit.

but it's not as simple as that. she was an attractive girl with a very nice figure (who could pull off a porno outfit complete with short short skirt, garters, heels, etc), and i am SURE that she can get plenty of sex any time she wants WITHOUT dressing up like that. my use of the words "stupid slut" is only referring to her costume in the context of a nightclub full of hipsters -- she stuck out like a glam rocker at woodstock.

so it must have been a sociological experiment? i don't know. what ever it is, i dont', and never said i have a problem with it WHAT SO EVER.

petergunn
26-03-2008, 10:32 AM
nothing, nothing, nothing, and nothing wrong with anything she is or wore or did. you are right Ella certainly was jealous a little bit.

but it's not as simple as that. she was an attractive girl with a very nice figure (who could pull off a porno outfit complete with short short skirt, garters, heels, etc), and i am SURE that she can get plenty of sex any time she wants WITHOUT dressing up like that. my use of the words "stupid slut" is only referring to her costume in the context of a nightclub full of hipsters -- she stuck out like a glam rocker at woodstock.

so it must have been a sociological experiment? i don't know. what ever it is, i dont', and never said i have a problem with it WHAT SO EVER.

you might be digging yrself deeper, boy-o...

i.e. not dressing like a vanilla whitebread hipster makes her a slut?

she could get laid if she just dressed "normally"? you should buy her some courderoys and a cardigan...

maybe she just likes to dress up in fetish gear, she's certainly not the first or last woman to do so... and honestly, knowing germans, it probably is not an act or anything, she probably likes to wear fetish gear, end of story...

i don't give a fuck either way, it just sounds silly to me...

zhao
26-03-2008, 11:33 AM
i never said she is or is not a "slut". i said she DRESSED LIKE ONE saturday night. that's all!!!!

everyone who was there would agree. including herself.

jesus...

Mr. Tea
26-03-2008, 02:33 PM
I think it's great when women dress a bit tarty, as long as they can pull it off, and as long as they do it well. There's definitely a right way and a wrong way to do it.

noel emits
26-03-2008, 02:58 PM
I think it's great when women dress a bit tarty, as long as they can pull it off
http://www.cornellconcertseries.com/image/ev_primary/88_sanders3.jpg
Fnarr.

Jaie Miller
26-03-2008, 03:53 PM
Don't worry, Jaie. She's probably shit at algebraic topology, or something.

I'm hoping.

john eden
26-03-2008, 04:22 PM
Just be happy for them and move on. Life is too short.

:)

zhao
26-03-2008, 04:33 PM
Just be happy for them and move on

up their skirts?
into their condos?

poetix
26-03-2008, 04:42 PM
I paid for what I have with what I don't have. People who have it all, what did they pay with?

Mr. Tea
26-03-2008, 04:44 PM
I paid for what I have with what I don't have. People who have it all, what did they pay with?

AmEx. Or maybe blowjobs, who knows.

nomadologist
26-03-2008, 04:45 PM
Most women can get sex when they want to wearing whatever, but some women have fetishes (just like some men do) and those women aren't slutty if they act them out I don't think. I don't believe in "slutty", really, when applied to an individual's sexual mores--what does it even mean? Sexually free? Open? Not afraid of violating stupid double standards?

Jaie Miller
26-03-2008, 05:33 PM
Frizzy.

http://a121.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/25/m_3ead7bcef31a6bab1b6b6480b8fb49a8.jpg

you're right, and adhereable.

swears
26-03-2008, 06:15 PM
A favourite game of mine on nights out is pretending that I haven't even noticed a girl is attractive. It's like if I even glance at her then I've "lost" or something. This is probably just as fucked up as gawping slack-jawed and making grunting noises. Oh well.

zhao
27-03-2008, 07:59 AM
A favourite game of mine on nights out is pretending that I haven't even noticed a girl is attractive. It's like if I even glance at her then I've "lost" or something. This is probably just as fucked up as gawping slack-jawed and making grunting noises. Oh well.

the former will certainly get you laid much more than the later.

zhao
27-03-2008, 08:04 AM
Most women can get sex when they want to wearing whatever, but some women have fetishes (just like some men do) and those women aren't slutty if they act them out I don't think. I don't believe in "slutty", really, when applied to an individual's sexual mores--what does it even mean? Sexually free? Open? Not afraid of violating stupid double standards?

i never said this girl is or is not a "slut", a derogatory term i don't particularly like to use either (except in bed).

but she was positively DRESSED like one. i am certain that everyone in the room, including herself, would agree.

no it was not "fetish gear". it wasn't some latex future costume. it also wasn't tasteful revealing high end erotic wear. it was a "stupid slut costume". no more, no less. if any of you saw it you would all agree as well.

mixed_biscuits
27-03-2008, 10:39 AM
A favourite game of mine on nights out is pretending that I haven't even noticed a girl is attractive.

This is a favourite trick of 'pick-up artists' to hit on fit women - if they think that they aren't attractive to you, then they consider it a challenge to get you to change your mind.

Complimenting them on their accessories rather than something attached directly to their body (eg. hair, limbs, breasts) has the same affect. (Apparently).

Yet more games-playing. :slanted:

swears
27-03-2008, 11:01 AM
Well, it hasn't actually worked yet after about seven years of clubbing. All my gfs have been "friend of a friend" type deals. No cold-calling.

zhao
27-03-2008, 11:50 AM
Well, it hasn't actually worked yet after about seven years of clubbing. All my gfs have been "friend of a friend" type deals. No cold-calling.

i know what you mean but don't rule out possibilities because stranger things have happened... i met a girl when i was 23 at a big mega type club and it turned into an off and on 10 year relationship, the major one in my life so far, which has profoundly shaped me in so many positive ways... i still talk to her often, even from Germany. (but i think it was a really freak occurance because that night was the first and last time either one of us ever went to that club)

Mr. Tea
27-03-2008, 01:17 PM
Complimenting them on their accessories rather than something attached directly to their body (eg. hair, limbs, breasts) has the same affect. (Apparently).


Or it could backfire by making her think you're gay (recognising the brand of shoes she's wearing might be taking it a bit far, for example). But then again, maybe she'd take this as a challenge and try to 'turn' you - although I'm not sure this actually happens outside of sitcoms or people's fantasies.

Edit: zhao's experience sounds a bit like mine - I'd generally say night clubs are shit for pulling, but by far the most successful relationship I've had, and the one I'm still in, came about by me and my now-girlfriend meeting in a club. Well, we'd kind of met a day or two earlier, but not properly. I think it helped that it was a really shit club, as we were both quite keen to get out of there.

Jaie Miller
27-03-2008, 01:23 PM
last night it was,

oh, so you play sax [the sound of my soul]

the thing was, she had dread locks and i was thinking

what you gone do with all them lice all them lice inside your dreads?!!!

swears
27-03-2008, 01:27 PM
My my current gf in Weatherspoons of all places. But she is my mate's gf's mate, anyway so I was introduced. Anyways, I'm not all emo over girls at the moment. ;)

zhao
27-03-2008, 01:46 PM
emo over girls

oh man... a long time heart throb is coming to visit in the summer... one i've ached for for so long... she's so lovely and so perfect i want to destroy everything in the world. she might stay in berlin and if she does all my other lovers will get the "let's be friends" talk.

Pestario
27-03-2008, 01:53 PM
oh man... a long time heart throb is coming to visit in the summer... one i've ached for for so long... she's so lovely and so perfect i want to destroy everything in the world. she might stay in berlin and if she does all my other lovers will get the "let's be friends" talk.

how many lovers do you have at the moment??

zhao
27-03-2008, 02:11 PM
just 2. 1 has been put on back burner because of extraneous circumstances but will make a come back any time. 2nd one is rocking the party right now. BOOMING SOUND. 3rd one is cued up, ready to jump in the mix (good lord willing, tomorrow night). 3 turntables... trickier than 2 but avoiding train wrecks gets easier with practice. the most at one time was 4... takes a lot of energy but i was really in shape at that time. not sure if i can pull that off now... ready to have a go though ;)

Mr. Tea
27-03-2008, 02:20 PM
+++ Internet Sex Boast Alert +++ Internet Sex Boast Alert +++ Internet Sex Boast Alert +++ Internet Sex Boast Alert +++

Pestario
27-03-2008, 02:23 PM
lol

he was baiting and I bit :p

poetix
27-03-2008, 02:24 PM
I had sex once.

It was all right.

Pestario
27-03-2008, 02:30 PM
Izziiiiiittt?

Mr. Tea
27-03-2008, 02:31 PM
I had sex once.


Photos, or it didn't happen.

zhao
27-03-2008, 02:40 PM
i was talking about dj skills. don't know what yall are on about :slanted:

Mr. Tea
27-03-2008, 02:42 PM
Pfft, "needle in the groove", indeed. :D

Pulchritude
27-03-2008, 03:22 PM
This is a favourite trick of 'pick-up artists' to hit on fit women - if they think that they aren't attractive to you, then they consider it a challenge to get you to change your mind.

Males who do this are evil. But I'm ashamed to say that 'd probably be much more attracted to someone if I think he's not particularly interested, than a guy who's just too obvious. I can't explain it, really. Chemical imbalance in the brain?

bassnation
27-03-2008, 03:33 PM
Males who do this are evil. But I'm ashamed to say that 'd probably be much more attracted to someone if I think he's not particularly interested, than a guy who's just too obvious. I can't explain it, really. Chemical imbalance in the brain?

well, i'm not a woman so you'd be better placed to know, but i always thought it was something to do with the fact that every woman gets hit on every single day and the way to stand out from the dorks is to avoid doing the same thing as them.

and as a man, i'm more interested in women who i have to chase. if a woman chases me i assume theres something wrong with them. i kind of like the idea of being seduced, but really i prefer things the way they are.

i've also tried that technique where you disqualify yourself as a partner in quite a subtle way which is supposed to make them want to prove you wrong, unbeleivably it does work. i hate to play these games, it would be great just to be straight forward but if i did, i wouldn't be having very much sex or relationships at all.

swears
27-03-2008, 03:39 PM
well, i'm not a woman so you'd be better placed to know, but i always thought it was something to do with the fact that every woman gets hit on every single day and the way to stand out from the dorks is to avoid doing the same thing as them.



Yeah, who wants to be "horny dickhead #26" to some harassed girl? mind you, I know fellas who go through dozens of knockbacks, but eventually do meet somebody that likes them, so I suppose that's the logic there.

My ignoring of girls is not a pickup technique anyway, just a way of trying not to look too uncool while being very shy.

Mr. Tea
27-03-2008, 03:39 PM
and as a man, i'm more interested in women who i have to chase. if a woman chases me i assume theres something wrong with them.

*Benny Hill music*

bassnation
27-03-2008, 03:44 PM
Yeah, who wants to be "horny dickhead #26" to some harassed girl? mind you, I know fellas who go through dozens of knockbacks, but eventually do meet somebody that likes them, so I suppose that's the logic there.

My ignoring of girls is not a pickup technique anyway, just a way of trying not to look too uncool while being very shy.

yeah, i used to have a french mate who literally propositioned every woman in a club, scores of women would tell him to fuck off but inevitably he always, always went home with an attractive woman. if your skin is thick enough it pays dividends.

Pulchritude
27-03-2008, 03:53 PM
well, i'm not a woman so you'd be better placed to know, but i always thought it was something to do with the fact that every woman gets hit on every single day and the way to stand out from the dorks is to avoid doing the same thing as them.
Possibly. I don't tend to take guys that I meet in clubs very seriously, anyway. This is usually due to the assumption that most males who go to places like that are all of the same desperate, vacuous ilk. Unfortunately, part of this assumption is also based on most of my male friends, who enjoy going to such places.


and as a man, i'm more interested in women who i have to chase. if a woman chases me i assume theres something wrong with them. i kind of like the idea of being seduced, but really i prefer things the way they are.
Aren't most males like that? I, personally, prefer it that way as I can't think of anything more terrifying than being the one having to do the 'chasing'. Sexually enpowered 21st century female? Not me!

zhao
27-03-2008, 04:02 PM
Sexually enpowered 21st century female? Not me!

talk to nomad. she'll sort you out

Mr. Tea
27-03-2008, 04:25 PM
It would be great if more women were more active in this sense, more willing to make the first move.

swears
27-03-2008, 04:34 PM
Yeah, I've always thought this. Mainly because I'm a coward.

zhao
27-03-2008, 05:35 PM
Yeah, I've always thought this. Mainly because I'm a coward.



Shyness is nice, and
Shyness can stop you
From doing all the things in life
That you’d like to

So, if there’s something you’d like to try
If there’s something you’d like to try
Ask me - I won’t say "no" - how could I?

Spending warm summer days indoors
Writing frightening verse
To a buck-toothed girl in luxembourg

Nature is a language - can’t you read ?
Nature is a language - can anybody read ?

Because if it’s not love
Then it’s the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb,
the bomb, the bomb, the bomb
That will bring us together

so you see, the fate of the world is in your hands, swears.

Sick Boy
27-03-2008, 07:38 PM
Typically how I do things is I bumble along clueless to advances or insinuation, get clued in by one of my mates, over-strategize, execute strategy until boredom or frustration kicks in, and then either walk, or confront directly in one honest brain fart.

It surprisingly works pretty well.

Edit: But then again, I invariably end up with long-term girlfriends, which some people are averse to.

Edit: Also, what usually influences whether I walk or not is whether they are good looking people with stuff. If I've only got good-looking OR stuff to deal with, I can't be bothered most of the time (see: long term girlfriends every time).

petergunn
27-03-2008, 08:22 PM
I had sex once.

It was all right.

when i was younger, i had a friend who was in his late 30's and had sex like 80 times in his life... he told me this and i was shocked, b/c he was always telling stories about women... i was like "what about the navy wife you were fucking when her husband was at sea?" he replied "yeah, that was 14 times"... shit seemed very strange... never had a long term sexual relationship EVER...

Sick Boy
27-03-2008, 08:59 PM
when i was younger, i had a friend who was in his late 30's and had sex like 80 times in his life... he told me this and i was shocked, b/c he was always telling stories about women... i was like "what about the navy wife you were fucking when her husband was at sea?" he replied "yeah, that was 14 times"... shit seemed very strange... never had a long term sexual relationship EVER...

The strangest part is that he was counting!

nomadologist
27-03-2008, 09:38 PM
It would be great if more women were more active in this sense, more willing to make the first move.

Oh but then you get to contend with the "slut" accusations. (Btw I don't believe in "stupid slut" clothing, I don't even know what that means...haven't a clue...a short skirt? stripper clothes?) There is really no social benefit to being aggressive sexually if you're a girl, though I know lots of girls who do it anyway. More power to them.

I actually think most girls looking for casual sex or a more casual relationship prefer a guy who can keep up with the mind-game playing. It's just more fun. It's really tedious to hook up with someone who basically has nothing going on except their horniness and willingness to have vanilla sex now and then. Snore. And most guys are terrible in bed. Just awful. Many seem like they picked up their techniques watching porn, which any sex worker will tell you is purely bogus and not fun for the parties actually involved. It's work. It takes a million shots and careful editing to make it look like someone ejaculated in the process.

nomadologist
27-03-2008, 09:42 PM
talk to nomad. she'll sort you out

I wouldn't be caught dead "chasing" anyone. I have no interested in being a "sexually aggressive" empowered female, mostly because I don't believe the two have anything to do with one another. Aside from that, nothing sounds more boring than bothering to chase men. It's probably the last thing on my list of "activities worth doing"...

nomadologist
27-03-2008, 09:44 PM
when i was younger, i had a friend who was in his late 30's and had sex like 80 times in his life... he told me this and i was shocked, b/c he was always telling stories about women... i was like "what about the navy wife you were fucking when her husband was at sea?" he replied "yeah, that was 14 times"... shit seemed very strange... never had a long term sexual relationship EVER...

Sounds kind of like the way someone would talk about sex who rarely had it. Do you think he was lying or exaggerating? Seems like a very high school attitude, to count each time. I couldn't possibly count how many times I've had sex, and I can't think of a good reason why I should want to.

petergunn
28-03-2008, 12:36 AM
Sounds kind of like the way someone would talk about sex who rarely had it. Do you think he was lying or exaggerating? Seems like a very high school attitude, to count each time. I couldn't possibly count how many times I've had sex, and I can't think of a good reason why I should want to.

no, i am sure he was telling the truth

i could write a lot about this guy, he was a real trip... but, to keep it short, he was missing a few marbles and after i had moved out of town (san diego) he had basically had a meltdown and was living homeless in the park. i swear when i returned to visit a few years later i saw him downtown, walking around with totally vacant eyes... could have been someone else, tho...

but, yeah, he was basically not emotionally developed enough to have a full fledged relationship with a woman, so his sexual experiences were limited to flings, one night stands, hookers, and bar skanks... actually, that is what brought about his breakdown; he hooked up with a demented woman he met in a bar who moved into his trailer with him and proceeded to bleed him dry financially til he lost his savings, home, and business... fucked up...

ripley
28-03-2008, 12:39 AM
It would be great if more women were more active in this sense, more willing to make the first move.

yes, but..

It's not just the "slut" accusations. It's also that women's sense of self is usually much more bound up in being found attractive. Not only does this encourage women to find validation through being pursued, this means that when women actually make a move, rejection is not just of sex or a drink or whatever, but is kind of felt as a rejection of your value as a human being.

It's hard to have a thick skin about what society constantly tells you is your single most defining trait.

Mr. Tea
28-03-2008, 01:45 AM
yes, but..

It's not just the "slut" accusations. It's also that women's sense of self is usually much more bound up in being found attractive. Not only does this encourage women to find validation through being pursued, this means that when women actually make a move, rejection is not just of sex or a drink or whatever, but is kind of felt as a rejection of your value as a human being.

It's hard to have a thick skin about what society constantly tells you is your single most defining trait.

So what's to do about it? Women make up half of society, after all, it's not like it's this alien thing that's thrust upon them.

I'm sure most blokes I know would be happy if more women were a bit more forward in this respect, and if the rest is up to how women feel about themselves - well, that's up to how women feel about themselves. Obviously a large part of this is to do with how men see women, or how women think men see them at any rate, but it strikes me that an even bigger part is to do with how women think other women see them.

And (nomad) what the hell is this about how "nearly all men are crap in bed"? Like, all women are naturally brilliant, or something? Like it's the man's 'duty' to ensure sex is amazing every time? If it's that bad, lock yourself away with Rampant Rabbit, a supply of chocolate and a Sex and the City boxset. :slanted:

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 02:42 AM
Agreed, Ripley. And while women make up 50% of society, they had very little to do with the building up of Western society from a standpoint of political and social power. So there are very many "male-oriented" things about our culture. (The "male gaze" anyone?)


And (nomad) what the hell is this about how "nearly all men are crap in bed"? Like, all women are naturally brilliant, or something? Like it's the man's 'duty' to ensure sex is amazing every time? If it's that bad, lock yourself away with Rampant Rabbit, a supply of chocolate and a Sex and the City boxset. :slanted:

I have no idea how good women are in bed at large. I like women well enough. In my experience they are much better in bed than men are, even though if I had to choose I would probably say I'd prefer a guy based on looks if he's good looking enough. And yes, I think as a lover it is your duty to please the other person. Otherwise what is the fucking point?

I have no interest in watching Sex and the City. Guh I hate that show. I assume Rampant Rabbit is a vibrator. No interest in that either. Chocolate? Is ok I guess. Not the biggest fan of sweets.

zhao
28-03-2008, 02:44 AM
well i've just come back from a very disappointing night. me and my buddy went out with these 2 girls who seemed like they were down, but turned out to be clueless morons. I'm just glad I hailed a taxi at 3 AM and didn't waste any more time with the bullshit.

most people are fakes and don't know what's good. and if you are lucky enough to find some real ones in the haystack, hold on to them. rare like unicorns in a field of donkeys.

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 02:45 AM
no, i am sure he was telling the truth

i could write a lot about this guy, he was a real trip... but, to keep it short, he was missing a few marbles and after i had moved out of town (san diego) he had basically had a meltdown and was living homeless in the park. i swear when i returned to visit a few years later i saw him downtown, walking around with totally vacant eyes... could have been someone else, tho...

but, yeah, he was basically not emotionally developed enough to have a full fledged relationship with a woman, so his sexual experiences were limited to flings, one night stands, hookers, and bar skanks... actually, that is what brought about his breakdown; he hooked up with a demented woman he met in a bar who moved into his trailer with him and proceeded to bleed him dry financially til he lost his savings, home, and business... fucked up...

One of those...kind of sad...I bump into lots of these types and I can't help but feel sorry for them.

zhao
28-03-2008, 02:50 AM
In my experience they are much better in bed than men are, even though if I had to choose I would probably say I'd prefer a guy based on looks if he's good looking enough.

few women under the age of 30 are comfortable enough with themselves to allow themselves to have amazing sex. from my experience.

so looks are more important to you than feeling? would that be an inverted "male gaze"? isn't obsession with surface and appearances quintessentially male and chauvinist? maybe not. i don't know what I'm talking about I'm drunk.

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 02:56 AM
few women under the age of 30 are comfortable enough with themselves to allow themselves to have amazing sex. from my experience.

so looks are more important to you than feeling? would that be an inverted "male gaze"? isn't obsession with surface and appearances quintessentially male and chauvinist? maybe not. i don't know what I'm talking about I'm drunk.

comfortable enough with myself? ha. so it's *my* fault most men suck in bed. yeah, that's it.

i've had sex with a few people who were actually very good and i enjoyed it, so i know they exist. they're just the exception to the rule. i found one person and have been with them for a long long time because i know that i probably will never be lucky enough to find someone i like so much who is so talented.

sex is just so boring the way most people practice it imo.

yaaawwnnn.

everyone likes good-looking people, or at least people whom they personally find good looking. i don't think that has anything to do with the male gaze, which is a way in which our sexuality is unconsciously structured around the phallic according to psychoanalysts.

zhao
28-03-2008, 03:04 AM
my definition of good sex:

heart.

feeling.

communication.

fluidity.

connectedness.

sensitivity.

"letting go" (of the self. and abandoning to the experience. to the moment)

like good improvised music. where each player is paying attention to the other(s), action and response - give and take - and simultaneously being creative of their own accord and intuition. magic happens.

my definition of bad sex:

disconnected.

no feeling.

joyless fucking.

self absorbed.

egotistical.

narcisistic.

simulated. (virtual)

incommunicado. (fear)

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 03:09 AM
i am way kinkier than that i guess. or should i say that i know i am.

zhao
28-03-2008, 03:16 AM
i am way kinkier than that i guess. or should i say that i know i am.

not sure exactly what you mean.

role playing? that i think can come after the initial connection. but if a relationship is based on subjective fantasy, it will never move beyond that stage of play-acting -- and in my opinion, ultimately unfulfilling.

fetish? fetish as a substitute is by definition a replacement, a standing in, of the real thing. it is borne of neurosis and insecurity and fear (much more safe to fixate on objects, or people as objects, than real living humans with real feelings)

ok that's it. good night. I'm going to bed. (alone)

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 03:34 AM
not sure exactly what you mean.

role playing? that i think can come after the initial connection. but if a relationship is based on subjective fantasy, it will never move beyond that stage of play-acting -- and in my opinion, ultimately unfulfilling.

fetish? fetish as a substitute is by definition a replacement, a standing in, of the real thing. it is borne of neurosis and insecurity and fear (much more safe to fixate on objects, or people as objects, than real living humans with real feelings)

ok that's it. good night. I'm going to bed. (alone)

No not role playing. And not fetishes.

Well I'm going to take issue with the idea that fetish is "borne of neurosis insecurity and fear"--not at all, according to psychoanalysts, with whom I largely agree on the subject. We *all* have fetishes, whether they are recognized or not. Most people don't have especially deviant ones, but everyone has them. (Fetish doesn't "stand in" for anything but the lost object, which was never a "real thing" in the way I believe you mean "real thing" when you type it)

You could just as easily say that people who refuse to explore sexual fantasies outside the realm of vanilla sex are "afraid" and "repressed." But I won't, because I don't think it's necessarily true. There is a very wide range of perfectly acceptable and valid expressions of human sexuality. We all have a narrative, we all have needs, all of our needs come from concrete psychological experience, we are all entitled to fulfill those needs to the best of our ability without victimizing anyone.

I think anyone who thinks that they are only into sex insofar as it is about "real people with real feelings" and without recourse to their own very complicated set of psychological needs is kidding themselves.

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 03:37 AM
The best quote about sex I can think of is one I heard from an ex who I haven't even thought about in years but one who was pretty kinky--

Sex is a psychological activity with physical payoffs.

I agree with that 100%. Most men, in my experience, think of sex as a physical activity with physical payoffs. That is one-dimensional and boring to me.

ripley
28-03-2008, 06:28 AM
So what's to do about it? Women make up half of society, after all, it's not like it's this alien thing that's thrust upon them.


yes, if you ignore sexism and patriarchy. :rolleyes:

this situation that puts womens' sense of self and worth wholly in their appealingness to men is not alien, because it's the system we all grow up in. But it is not to women's advantage. Women do maintain it (we are sexist towards each other because we learn it just like men do) but it doesn't benefit us in relation to men.

what's to do about it is to recognize that it exists, try not to do things that maintain or contribute to it. Like, avoid slut-shaming talk, avoid relying on sexist categories and generalizations, avoid discussing or referring to women as if their sole value is their ability to attract men, mock/shame sexism in others, standing up to sexism and subverting it in official situations whenever possible, etc etc

you know, the usual.

zhao
28-03-2008, 09:21 AM
Sex is a psychological activity with physical payoffs.

that's interesting although how anyone can really separate the two is beyond me...
________________________________
know what else is interesting: was talking to one of my lovers about masterbation, and she says that she never thinks about men when she is pleasing herself. (i was a bit hurt actually) but she says that she has never fantasized about men during auto-erotic activities -- while it is unthinkable for me not to think about women in such circumstances.

i'm pretty certain most men are like me. are most women like her?

if so, the only conclusion is that male sexuality is almost entirely dependent on the female; while female sexuality is much more autonomous and independent.

to the boys: they really don't need us :confused: :(

to the girls: how's that for empowering! :D

bassnation
28-03-2008, 10:13 AM
I wouldn't be caught dead "chasing" anyone. I have no interested in being a "sexually aggressive" empowered female, mostly because I don't believe the two have anything to do with one another. Aside from that, nothing sounds more boring than bothering to chase men. It's probably the last thing on my list of "activities worth doing"...

chasing a man is like a dog chasing a stationary car surely?

and who are all these men purely into vanilla sex? crazy, fucked-up, days-on-end, drugged to the eyeballs, complaints-from-the-neighbours sex is where its at for everyone surely?

john eden
28-03-2008, 10:19 AM
rejection is not just of sex or a drink or whatever, but is kind of felt as a rejection of your value as a human being.


Without wishing to diminish the effects of our fucked up society on women, that is also how a lot of men experience rejection in my experience.

swears
28-03-2008, 10:40 AM
Without wishing to diminish the effects of our fucked up society on women, that is also how a lot of men experience rejection in my experience.

Oh boy, do we ever.

But maybe the rejection hurts for different reasons. Women feel ugly, men feel like socially incompetent nerds/idiots (and ugly a bit as well).

Mr. Tea
28-03-2008, 11:00 AM
isn't obsession with surface and appearances quintessentially male and chauvinist?

Dude: out of all the people you know, who (on average) owns the most shoes - the men or the women?

I'm not saying obsession-with-surface-and-appearances is quintessentially female either, I don't think it's quintessentially anything actually.

john eden
28-03-2008, 11:01 AM
I think it goes deeper than that, you're basically revealing a fair bit about yourself and making yourself vulnerable in the process. Even when you're being let down gently, that cuts quite deep. For some.

I suppose a lot of depends on your sensitivity and personality, and what your intentions are (like, are you a dog on heat or have you fancied someone for ages and just plucked up the courage to ask them out after weeks of self-doubt?)

Mr. Tea
28-03-2008, 11:08 AM
yes, if you ignore sexism and patriarchy. :rolleyes:


I'm not trying to 'ignore' anything, I'm was just pointing out (as you recognise yourself) that the way things are now is a result of a complicated dynamic in which women play an active, as well as a passive, part. It's certainly not as if the "rules of the dating game" (or whatever bullshit clichéd term for it you want to use) work to the detriment of every woman and the advantage of every man, and I think there's a good case to be made for women in many respects having the upper hand, at least as far as finding partners is concerned.

swears
28-03-2008, 11:08 AM
http://justheard.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/380_nerd.jpg

Will you be my giiiirll-frieeend?

john eden
28-03-2008, 11:12 AM
It seems a bit petty to complain about in the face of the stats on domestic violence, wages, rape etc, but I do think it is worth thinking about situations where men do not benefit from patriarchy - not least because it's more reason to seek change.

There is a danger of course of men trying to claim victim status in the equation as well, which is ridiculous, but I don't think we can gloss over how society fucks men up either.

Mr. Tea
28-03-2008, 11:17 AM
Well yeah, look at rates of depression, mental illness, academic failure, drug and alcohol addiction, suicide - sorry, ladies, but we leave you in the dust on those fronts. Of course, as John says, none of this should be mentioned instead of rape, wage inequality and so on, it should be mentioned as well. It's not like there's a fixed amount of human rights that has to be divvied up between the sexes, after all...

swears
28-03-2008, 11:38 AM
I did actually reject a girl once without knowing it. She asked me to go to some slightly naff gothy electronica night and I said "no" thinking she was still with her fella and asking me out as a friend. After that she was really moody with me, little jibes, not speaking, etc... Mr Clueless here had to ask a mutual friend what was going on, by then it was too late to get together, doh!

zhao
28-03-2008, 11:55 AM
Well I'm going to take issue with the idea that fetish is "borne of neurosis insecurity and fear"--not at all, according to psychoanalysts, with whom I largely agree on the subject. We *all* have fetishes, whether they are recognized or not. Most people don't have especially deviant ones, but everyone has them. (Fetish doesn't "stand in" for anything but the lost object, which was never a "real thing" in the way I believe you mean "real thing" when you type it)

yes we all have fetishes, and we all have neurosis, insecurities, and fears. from what i understand, correct me if I'm wrong, a fetish by definition is a sexual fixation on an inanimate object which is substitute for the human.


There is a very wide range of perfectly acceptable and valid expressions of human sexuality. We all have a narrative, we all have needs, all of our needs come from concrete psychological experience, we are all entitled to fulfill those needs to the best of our ability without victimizing anyone.

i would agree with that. with my previous list of "good sex" and "bad sex" characteristics I was not trying to delineate some kind of division between "healthy sex" and "unhealthy sex" or right and wrong. (but i know how it can seem like that)


I think anyone who thinks that they are only into sex insofar as it is about "real people with real feelings" and without recourse to their own very complicated set of psychological needs is kidding themselves.

you are right there as well. but that is the pendulum swung completely in the other direction of my postulation that "bad sex = impersonal joyless fucking with no empathy of the other as a human being". surely we should acknowledge both.

zhao
28-03-2008, 12:01 PM
chasing a man is like a dog chasing a stationary car surely?

that is true in the looking-for-sex-in-the-club context only.

plenty of men are unavailable and thus more desireable to the women who chase them. that's why it might be a good idea to start wearing a fake wedding ring on hunting trips (though I'd never sink down to that level. probably.)

bassnation
28-03-2008, 12:10 PM
that is true in the looking-for-sex-in-the-club context only.

plenty of men are unavailable and thus more desireable to the women who chase them. that's why it might be a good idea to start wearing a fake wedding ring on hunting trips (though I'd never sink down to that level. probably.)

yeah, when i used to wear my wedding ring i had loads of opportunities for that kind of thing. there is a certain group of women who only want to date married men for some reason, but i don't believe in doing that. not moralising, and each to his own but when i'm serious about someone, it means just that.

noel emits
28-03-2008, 12:18 PM
there is a certain group of women who only want to date married men for some reason
It's like a seal of approval perhaps.
http://nickelarse.com/Photos/DonnaNookDecember2005/pups/thumbs/189%20Seal%20Pup%20Clapping.JPG

zhao
28-03-2008, 12:24 PM
going on a date tonight and i know if i act aloof and not or barely interested she'll be chasing me for as long as i care to keep running.

so fucked.

it's true we all play games, because we are all thrown into the arena, with previously established rules that a single individual can not really bend or break very much on his/her own. and those who claim they "do not play games" and are "not a part of it" are kidding themselves -- oh they are playing alright, just unconsciously, and likely not very well.

so the machiavellian pragmatic course of action would of course be to simply get better at playing these games. (at the risk of losing one's soul i suppose some would say)

zhao
28-03-2008, 12:25 PM
It's like a seal of approval perhaps.
http://nickelarse.com/Photos/DonnaNookDecember2005/pups/thumbs/189%20Seal%20Pup%20Clapping.JPG

awwwwww.... so cute!

Mr. Tea
28-03-2008, 12:56 PM
It's like a seal of approval perhaps.
http://nickelarse.com/Photos/DonnaNookDecember2005/pups/thumbs/189%20Seal%20Pup%20Clapping.JPG

Certainly sounds like it helps when you're on the hunt while out clubbing. :D

swears
28-03-2008, 02:11 PM
it's true we all play games, because we are all thrown into the arena, with previously established rules that a single individual can not really bend or break very much on his/her own. and those who claim they "do not play games" and are "not a part of it" are kidding themselves -- oh they are playing alright, just unconsciously, and likely not very well.



I think the people who are best at mind games (in relationships or just in life generally) are those who don't even think about it, they just follow through with the arrogance or the passive-aggressive behaviour almost instinctively. It has to be internalised, if you're sitting there planning the moves, you're not "playing" 100%.

bassnation
28-03-2008, 02:15 PM
I think the people who are best at mind games (in relationships or just in life generally) are those who don't even think about it, they just follow through with the arrogance or the passive-aggressive behaviour almost instinctively. It has to be internalised, if you're sitting there planning the moves, you're not "playing" 100%.

hey with practice you'll be doing it with your eyes closed too.

swears
28-03-2008, 02:20 PM
I am no good at the whole mind games thing myself, btw. I don't think it's something that is 100% deliberately learned, some people pick it up, others don't, depending on nature/nuture. If I've ever got what I wanted, it was by accident, lol.

bassnation
28-03-2008, 02:29 PM
I am no good at the whole mind games thing myself, btw. I don't think it's something that is 100% deliberately learned, some people pick it up, others don't, depending on nature/nuture. If I've ever got what I wanted, it was by accident, lol.

Good times for a change
See, the luck Ive had
Can make a good man
Turn bad

So please please please
Let me, let me, let me
Let me get what I want
This time

Havent had a dream in a long time
See, the life Ive had
Can make a good man bad

So for once in my life
Let me get what I want
Lord knows, it would be the first time
Lord knows, it would be the first time

zhao
28-03-2008, 02:40 PM
I am no good at the whole mind games thing myself, btw. I don't think it's something that is 100% deliberately learned, some people pick it up, others don't, depending on nature/nuture. If I've ever got what I wanted, it was by accident, lol.

i think anyone can learn to play well. regardless of physical attributes, age, whatever.


So keep on playing those mind games together...

zhao
28-03-2008, 02:44 PM
I think the people who are best at mind games (in relationships or just in life generally) are those who don't even think about it

i think this is true sometimes -- there are naturals in every field.

but it is also true that in almost any field levels of mastery can be attained by anyone who cares to learn and practice.

swears
28-03-2008, 02:52 PM
OK, who is going to do better in a crucial date or job interview: The person who thinks "Oh shit! I've g-g-got to get a grip on myself and act confident!" or the person who just is confident because they've never had any reason to believe otherwise?

noel emits
28-03-2008, 03:00 PM
OK, who is going to do better in a crucial date or job interview: The person who thinks "Oh shit! I've g-g-got to get a grip on myself and act confident!" or the person who just is confident because they've never had any reason to believe otherwise?
The one with the shortest skirt?

bassnation
28-03-2008, 03:12 PM
OK, who is going to do better in a crucial date or job interview: The person who thinks "Oh shit! I've g-g-got to get a grip on myself and act confident!" or the person who just is confident because they've never had any reason to believe otherwise?

yeah but again, you can start off as the former and progress to the latter with practice. i go to loads of interviews, i work on short term contracts. when i started my interview technique frankly wasn't polished at all. now i've been to so many its like second nature. nothing is 100% innate, believe.

zhao
28-03-2008, 03:21 PM
yeah but again, you can start off as the former and progress to the latter with practice.

what i was tryna say

Pestario
28-03-2008, 03:41 PM
yeah but again, you can start off as the former and progress to the latter with practice. i go to loads of interviews, i work on short term contracts. when i started my interview technique frankly wasn't polished at all. now i've been to so many its like second nature. nothing is 100% innate, believe.

There are classes aren't there, for picking up, that you can pay money for.

swears
28-03-2008, 04:07 PM
Sure, but on the whole I don't think most people playing "mind games" are hatching diabolical machiavellian plots they learned from a "How to make friends and influence people" style textbook, it just comes as second nature to them.

Mr. Tea
28-03-2008, 04:13 PM
And by "them", you mean "women".

(joking)

((slightly))

swears
28-03-2008, 04:48 PM
Actually thinking of a couple of men I know...

But ladies too, sure.

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 06:01 PM
know what else is interesting: was talking to one of my lovers about masterbation, and she says that she never thinks about men when she is pleasing herself. (i was a bit hurt actually) but she says that she has never fantasized about men during auto-erotic activities -- while it is unthinkable for me not to think about women in such circumstances.

i'm pretty certain most men are like me. are most women like her?

if so, the only conclusion is that male sexuality is almost entirely dependent on the female; while female sexuality is much more autonomous and independent.

to the boys: they really don't need us :confused: :(

to the girls: how's that for empowering! :D

From the earliest I can remember engaging in auto-erotic activities, I never once have fantasized about a man or men general or male bodies or anything while doing it. Not once. (And I don't think about women, either.) I just do something that feels good and works. Has nothing to do with guys at all.

Lacan talked about this and someone linked to one of his good quotes about it on dissensus a long time ago...let me see if I can find it...something about how while a woman is always the object of male sexual desire, no one man or object is ever the subject of female desire...it was in something Gavin linked to I think...

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 06:03 PM
Dude: out of all the people you know, who (on average) owns the most shoes - the men or the women?

I'm not saying obsession-with-surface-and-appearances is quintessentially female either, I don't think it's quintessentially anything actually.

Good point, Mr. Tea, this is something I've read a lot about, female fetishism. Agamben wrote a really great piece on fetishism called Stanzas for people who are into psychoanalysis.

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 06:09 PM
chasing a man is like a dog chasing a stationary car surely?

and who are all these men purely into vanilla sex? crazy, fucked-up, days-on-end, drugged to the eyeballs, complaints-from-the-neighbours sex is where its at for everyone surely?

I don't know, even the guys who are seemingly the least uptight about most things in life are often really uptight and boring. They are often so focused on doing things that they think are supposed to feel good for girls that I numb out and lose any potential to climax that may have been there.

I've got a boyfriend who is great, so I'm basically satisfied in life. I've never had to chase anyone and never wanted to. I don't miss being single at all, being single was like 1001 nights of terrible sex with fair to middling snorefests.

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 06:11 PM
Well yeah, look at rates of depression, mental illness, academic failure, drug and alcohol addiction, suicide - sorry, ladies, but we leave you in the dust on those fronts. Of course, as John says, none of this should be mentioned instead of rape, wage inequality and so on, it should be mentioned as well. It's not like there's a fixed amount of human rights that has to be divvied up between the sexes, after all...

Some people think that rates of depression in women are lower because it's underreported (women are taught that it's not their right to do anything but act as emotional support systems for others), and mental illness is overlooked because women are not as likely to be violent or out-of-control as part of their illness. But yeah, no one said life was easy for men. I'm sure rejection is hard for anyone.

tryptych
28-03-2008, 06:26 PM
I did actually reject a girl once without knowing it. She asked me to go to some slightly naff gothy electronica night and I said "no" thinking she was still with her fella and asking me out as a friend. After that she was really moody with me, little jibes, not speaking, etc... Mr Clueless here had to ask a mutual friend what was going on, by then it was too late to get together, doh!

I do this sort of thing all the time, always without noticing it until much later. I just assume that the girl in question has no interest. It's very annoying.

tryptych
28-03-2008, 06:32 PM
From the earliest I can remember engaging in auto-erotic activities, I never once have fantasized about a man or men general or male bodies or anything while doing it. Not once. (And I don't think about women, either.) I just do something that feels good and works. Has nothing to do with guys at all.

Lacan talked about this and someone linked to one of his good quotes about it on dissensus a long time ago...let me see if I can find it...something about how while a woman is always the object of male sexual desire, no one man or object is ever the subject of female desire...it was in something Gavin linked to I think...

I've been fully aware of this since my last long term girlfriend, and it makes me forever jealous of women for it.

I think the "it just feels good" side of masturbation is pretty alien to most adult males, sadly. Along with gratification from watching oneself engage in said auto-erotic activities. I've known girls who really enjoy watching themselves in the mirror - personally something I'd find inherently un-sexy.

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 06:47 PM
I do this sort of thing all the time, always without noticing it until much later. I just assume that the girl in question has no interest. It's very annoying.

I think that the couple of times I tried to create a "hang out" situation with a boy i liked this sort of thing happened, he just didn't get it.

RE rejection--I feel really really bad rejecting well-meaning and sincere types of advances. I can remember as early as elementary school knowing a very very nerdy and shy boy from a very poor family that saved up somehow to buy me a costume-jewelry type ring. He was the sort of kid everyone picked on but I was never like that, especially not to the exceptionally poor kids. He worked up the courage to give it to me and I felt so so terrible having to refuse it. I knew I couldn't keep it and lead him on, either. It was pretty heartbreaking for me as well.

Going out on a limb like that creates an awkward situation for all involved.

It's not easy to reject people. Sometimes it's just as hard to have to do the rejecting as it is to be rejected. Or nearly as hard.

nomadologist
28-03-2008, 07:18 PM
I think the "it just feels good" side of masturbation is pretty alien to most adult males, sadly. Along with gratification from watching oneself engage in said auto-erotic activities. I've known girls who really enjoy watching themselves in the mirror - personally something I'd find inherently un-sexy.

Well, I think this ties into why men aren't so good in bed without taking some time to learn the individual woman's body--men tend to have one erogenous zone that really matter, his penis, and it seems to me all men can easily achieve orgasm through penile stimulation. This is a very cut-and-dry, paint-by-numbers procedure. Women, on the other hand, have erogenous zones all over their bodies. I think women can have a great time masturbating without having to think of an object or subject to stimulate them, because their entire bodies are made of highly stimulatable-parts to work with. On top of this difference, all women seem to be very very different when it comes to which zones they prefer, and how they prefer to stimulate them.

Women see themselves as a whole being, their body is a whole that is stimulatable as a whole. Men see womens bodies as a bunch of parts that they use to stimulate themselves.

bassnation
29-03-2008, 12:17 AM
I don't know, even the guys who are seemingly the least uptight about most things in life are often really uptight and boring. They are often so focused on doing things that they think are supposed to feel good for girls that I numb out and lose any potential to climax that may have been there.

I've got a boyfriend who is great, so I'm basically satisfied in life. I've never had to chase anyone and never wanted to. I don't miss being single at all, being single was like 1001 nights of terrible sex with fair to middling snorefests.

i dunno, i guess its hard to quantify what makes it good or bad, but it either clicks or it doesn't. whats more difficult long term (even with someone you click with in every way, sexually and beyond) is keeping it interesting and fulfilling. thing is, after a while you know each other so well you know how to switch them on, but even that can become rote after a while, even with the best intentions. alright, other things become important, but for me, sex is a barometer. ok it doesn't have to be stellar every time and in fact maybe thats unacheivable, esp. when you have kids (and the spontaneity goes out the window when you are likely to be interrupted at inopportune moments). its not impossible, but its not effortless either. when you've seen a woman give birth it kind of changes your view of them in both positive and negative ways.

talking of dates though, and i don't mean this in a boastful sense cos theres been lots of disasters or just boring events, but i've been out with more people in the last year than i have in my entire life previous to that. theres something about actively looking for someone that makes it less likely that you'll find someone (that you really like). the moment you think fuck it, i can't be bothered is the time that you meet the next love of your life. yeah i'm human and i've got needs (but lets be honest, food and shelter come first) but i can easily go without sex. i'm not a meat puppet (i love that phrase). sometimes i wish i could rise above all that stuff and become a higher order intellectual being, like i imagine gek opel to be. i feel like my genes are manipulating me and now and again i can break out of it and see us as we are, advanced weird bacteria, ugly beyond belief, like a phillip k dick story. but then my instincts come crashing back in.

bassnation
29-03-2008, 12:20 AM
Well, I think this ties into why men aren't so good in bed

i dunno, theres just as many women who aren't comfortable with their bodies who are boring in bed. and its not just about the penis, i agree with what you said about it being a psychological thing. thats why people can get so fucked up about it, male and female. maybe its just american males? ;) although i've heard many stories in the uk from women moaning about blokes who won't "go south" (i'm not talking about croydon)

tryptych
29-03-2008, 01:55 AM
i've heard many stories in the uk from women moaning about blokes who won't "go south" (i'm not talking about croydon)

Girls who are really into dubstep, I can only assume that's what you mean? ;)

nomadologist
29-03-2008, 02:40 AM
"clicking" is definitely important. "chemistry." indefinable things that are unique to each individual relationship.

factors like length of relationship and kids are sure to change a sexual relationship, not always for the worse, but definitely they can put a strain on things i'm sure. i think that as people get older and busier in life and have a lot on their minds, sex just becomes less of a priority, whether married or not. i think the typical sitcom married guy who constantly moans about how marriage kills sex probably doesn't know how lucky he has it compared to bachelors of a similar age range.


when you've seen a woman give birth it kind of changes your view of them in both positive and negative ways.

this statement is really, really interesting to me. i read an entire article in the NY Times about men who were "traumatized" by watching their wives give birth and lost their sex drive almost completely. i watched most of my cousins born, it's almost nothing to me, so i don't really understand what the big deal is. can you explain what the negative ways are? i'm really curious about this, since i've heard such varying stories--from men who vomit at the thought to men who insist on sitting in the birthing tub with their wives.

i imagine it shatters a lot of the "mystique" (or illusion) the media and porn are so intent on fabricating about female genital sexuality. i really have come to believe that sex drive in men does start to calm down in middle age because so much of what men build their sex drive upon--ego, the idea of "dominance" and superior strength, the delicacy and fragility of women--slowly gets chipped away at by reality over time. on top of this, men definitely go through their own sort of "menopause" in middle age where their hormone production slows, often spikes (sometimes creating fantom romances--scientists believe many mid-life crisis-induced infatuations with strippers and such are caused by sudden "hot flash" like surges in testosterone as production slows). nowadays thanks to viagra men feel like this is some sort of inadequacy or medical problem that needs treatment. my dad always says he's glad he doesn't give a shit about sex anymore.


the moment you think fuck it, i can't be bothered is the time that you meet the next love of your life.

this is exactly what happened to me...


yeah i'm human and i've got needs (but lets be honest, food and shelter come first) but i can easily go without sex. i'm not a meat puppet (i love that phrase). sometimes i wish i could rise above all that stuff and become a higher order intellectual being, like i imagine gek opel to be. i feel like my genes are manipulating me and now and again i can break out of it and see us as we are, advanced weird bacteria, ugly beyond belief, like a phillip k dick story. but then my instincts come crashing back in.

this whole paragraph is brilliant, every word of it.

nomadologist
29-03-2008, 02:45 AM
i dunno, theres just as many women who aren't comfortable with their bodies who are boring in bed. and its not just about the penis, i agree with what you said about it being a psychological thing. thats why people can get so fucked up about it, male and female. maybe its just american males? ;) although i've heard many stories in the uk from women moaning about blokes who won't "go south" (i'm not talking about croydon)

i'm sure there are women who suck in bed. i bet most of them do. uptight women abound as well.

ha, well, i don't have a history of dating typical "american" guys usually, and i have had some experience with european and other ethnic groups and haven't seen much of a net difference in ability per encounter.

i know this is sacrilege coming from a woman but i don't really like oral sex more than other types. i like giving it but i don't care much about receiving it. actually i like giving it much much more than i like receiving it.

nomadologist
29-03-2008, 02:53 AM
yes we all have fetishes, and we all have neurosis, insecurities, and fears. from what i understand, correct me if I'm wrong, a fetish by definition is a sexual fixation on an inanimate object which is substitute for the human.

a fetish is a sexual fixation on something that can often replace the need for another sexual subject but doesn't have to by definition. some people fetishize breasts. some people fetishize asses. feet. eyes. hair. etc.

zhao
29-03-2008, 09:39 PM
yeah i'm human and i've got needs (but lets be honest, food and shelter come first) but i can easily go without sex. i'm not a meat puppet (i love that phrase). sometimes i wish i could rise above all that stuff and become a higher order intellectual being, like i imagine gek opel to be. i feel like my genes are manipulating me and now and again i can break out of it and see us as we are, advanced weird bacteria, ugly beyond belief, like a phillip k dick story. but then my instincts come crashing back in.

i think people, myself, and others, are beautiful. but then again i'm a meat puppet.


a fetish is a sexual fixation on something that can often replace the need for another sexual subject but doesn't have to by definition. some people fetishize breasts. some people fetishize asses. feet. eyes. hair. etc.

a body part separated from the complete human subject can be construed as an inanimate object in this context. anyhow i maintain that it is a substitute for intimacy and connection born of fear.


i like giving it but i don't care much about receiving it. actually i like giving it much much more than i like receiving it.

... ... ... ............... no comment.

Jaie Miller
29-03-2008, 11:25 PM
last night this girl was good looking, with stuff, in her vomit!!

She was telling me 'It's my birthday' like it was a part of a flashback:

her: it's my birthday!
me: what can you see?
her: there are people here, they're all dressed up!!! it's my birthday!

:rolleyes:

throwing up, then telling me 'I'm sorry'

what are the rules about pulling girls after they throwned up??

nomadologist
30-03-2008, 12:31 AM
i think people, myself, and others, are beautiful. but then again i'm a meat puppet.



a body part separated from the complete human subject can be construed as an inanimate object in this context. anyhow i maintain that it is a substitute for intimacy and connection born of fear.



... ... ... ............... no comment.

there is nothing mutually exclusive between having a strong sexual predilection for a body part and the ability to have "intimacy" without fear. if you really think so then maybe *you* can't have the one with the other, but i wouldn't try to universalize that.

"intimacy" what does that even mean? people have different ideas of what that means and different ideas about how to create that, all of them perfectly valid.

why no comment? is there something wrong with that?

there are no "rules" about sex, that's just silly. there are no easy answers about what is "right" or good.


vomit

:eek:

zhao
30-03-2008, 07:22 AM
there is nothing mutually exclusive between having a strong sexual predilection for a body part and the ability to have "intimacy" without fear.

in the advanced stages of sexual fetishism the fetishized object becomes the ONLY source of arousal, and nothing (and no one) else can turn the subject on. like people who NEED panties (or cumumbers or elbows) to have an orgasm, for whom any persons of the opposite (or same) sex does nothing. in cases like this the presence of the fetish object is necessary for, and the only source of, sexual stimulus and gratification.

granted that most people's fetishes do not develop to this level (see difference between "healthy fetishism", which we likely all have, and "pathological fetishism", like the guy who has sex with automobiles (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1127072wong1.html)), nonetheless this sort of thing, for me, and i'm pretty sure a lot of psychologists, is telling of the true nature of sexual fetishism - a substitution of the human with the inanimate.

a couple of alright definitions from encyclopedias:


a fixation on an inanimate object or body part that is not primarily sexual in nature, and the compulsive need for its use in order to obtain sexual gratification.

the transfer (my italics) of erotic interest to an object, such as an item of clothing, whose real or fantasized presence is necessary for sexual gratification.

we have moved on from the 19th century view of S.F. as an illness, but still "Modern psychology assumes that fetishism either is being conditioned or imprinted or the result of a strong emotional (e.g., traumatic) experience. " (from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism))

this (http://www.healthology.com/sexual-health/video2902.htm) is an interesting talk on the subject - a few excerpts:


ROBERT J. FILEWICH, PhD: Right. People talk about sexual addicts or people being obsessed with sex, and really they're obsessed with dysfunctional sex. Their everyday sex lives with their partners, if they have partners, are actually quite boring and mundane. They have a hard time maintaining an erection. They have a hard time maintaining intimacy, so they really don't suffer from too much sex, they just have too much bad sex or dysfunctional sex. By "bad," I'm not casting a judgment, I'm just saying for them it becomes a compulsion that interferes in their lives.

DAVID FOLK THOMAS: You said shy people might tend toward fetishism. It seems like you always hear about guys having fetishes. Do women have fetishes?

KEN ROSENBERG, MD: It is a male disorder.

DAVID FOLK THOMAS: Why is it a male disorder?

KEN ROSENBERG, MD: It's an interesting question. Nobody really knows the answer to that, but most of the time it is.

ROBERT J. FILEWICH, PhD: It could be that men are less socialized. They have more difficult times in social situations than women. Women find social situations a lot easier. They talk with each other more. They experience emotions and feelings a lot more, so they're able to go ahead and develop more healthy, adult sexual relationships than men are, so men will turn to an object to go ahead and satisfy their sexual desire because they find it really difficult to connect with a person who they have a sexual desire for.

KEN ROSENBERG, MD: Maybe, but it's so interesting because, actually, women have, on average, more sexual disorders than men, so it's so interesting that fetishism is a male disorder

KEN ROSENBERG, MD: It's a problem when it's the only thing that they can do or when it gets them in trouble. Many people with fetishistic problems don't come to treatment because they want to, they come to treatment because they have to, because their girlfriend says, "You know, I want you to be with me, not with my clothing or not with my shoe."

I'm not passing any moral judgements or trying to put forth any "rules" or even necessarily making a distinction between "healthy" and "unhealthy" sexual practice. all I'm saying is that sexual fetishism is fundamentally a substitution (for the human).


why no comment? is there something wrong with that?

sorry for ambiguity which lead to a completely misunderstanding: i was going to say something along the lines of you being The Perfect Girl but thought that it would be corny.

nomadologist
30-03-2008, 11:25 PM
in the advanced stages of sexual fetishism the fetishized object becomes the ONLY source of arousal, and nothing (and no one) else can turn the subject on. like people who NEED panties (or cumumbers or elbows) to have an orgasm, for whom any persons of the opposite (or same) sex does nothing. in cases like this the presence of the fetish object is necessary for, and the only source of, sexual stimulus and gratification.

granted that most people's fetishes do not develop to this level (see difference between "healthy fetishism", which we likely all have, and "pathological fetishism", like the guy who has sex with automobiles (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1127072wong1.html)), nonetheless this sort of thing, for me, and i'm pretty sure a lot of psychologists, is telling of the true nature of sexual fetishism - a substitution of the human with the inanimate.

a couple of alright definitions from encyclopedias:


we have moved on from the 19th century view of S.F. as an illness, but still "Modern psychology assumes that fetishism either is being conditioned or imprinted or the result of a strong emotional (e.g., traumatic) experience. " (from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism))

this (http://www.healthology.com/sexual-health/video2902.htm) is an interesting talk on the subject - a few excerpts:



I'm not passing any moral judgements or trying to put forth any "rules" or even necessarily making a distinction between "healthy" and "unhealthy" sexual practice. all I'm saying is that sexual fetishism is fundamentally a substitution (for the human).



sorry for ambiguity which lead to a completely misunderstanding: i was going to say something along the lines of you being The Perfect Girl but thought that it would be corny.

sure fetishism is a "substitution" but not necessarily for "the human", it's more complicated than that..."the lack" is a prominent force in the making of *everyone's* sex drive, not just fetishists. everyone's sexuality is built around the loss of the object.

as for this "like people who NEED panties (or cumumbers or elbows) to have an orgasm, for whom any persons of the opposite (or same) sex does nothing" this is extremely rare, all fetishists identify as either straight or gay and are attracted to members of one sex or another. in some cases of advanced fetishism the worship of the object replaces the need for intercourse, but that's hardly the same as losing all interest in other sexual partners.

even foot fetishists will pay good money to have a woman, preferably an attractive one, play out their fantasies regarding feet and foot worship. they don't lose their heterosexuality, they just express it differently.

nomadologist
30-03-2008, 11:28 PM
And I could probably cite a million people who would disagree with this Rosenberg guy about whether fetishism is solely a male disorder...that's the classic psychoanalytical view but it's been modified about a million times at this point...

bassnation
31-03-2008, 10:23 AM
what are the rules about pulling girls after they throwned up??

well if this wasn't a public forum, i could tell you an interesting story about that.

zhao
31-03-2008, 11:29 AM
well if this wasn't a public forum, i could tell you an interesting story about that.

oh come now. we all know a few dozens of music and other types of nerds visit this place and that's about it. you can tell us about the incident concerning "your friend", and what "your friend" did in that situation. ;) the chances of any of "your friend"'s future girlfriends ever reading this thread is virtually nonexistent.

zhao
31-03-2008, 11:31 AM
And I could probably cite a million people who would disagree with this Rosenberg guy about whether fetishism is solely a male disorder...that's the classic psychoanalytical view but it's been modified about a million times at this point...

hmmm... i've personally never ever heard of any women hoarding hundreds of boxer shorts in their apartment...

Mr. Tea
31-03-2008, 02:52 PM
i'm sure there are women who suck in bed. i bet most of them do. uptight women abound as well.


I know what you meant that sentence to mean, but it's still funny.

nomadologist
01-04-2008, 08:50 PM
oh come now. we all know a few dozens of music and other types of nerds visit this place and that's about it. you can tell us about the incident concerning "your friend", and what "your friend" did in that situation. ;) the chances of any of "your friend"'s future girlfriends ever reading this thread is virtually nonexistent.

i don't know, gavin guessed who i was within a very short period of time and we live a thousand miles away from each other and had never met before.

i'm pretty notorious i guess.

Jaie Miller
07-05-2008, 06:00 PM
A good looking person can give you a look. And without saying anything, you can know what the look implies. Biting her lip in an awkard moment...'oh, yeah, I thought I had my travelcard...' oh yeah, kinda looking a way, and they'll probably get away with it. When you're ugly, contorting ones face in some cases, only makes the situation worse. :cool:

Ever look at a billboard and think, 'yeah, and...' Good looking people, I telll ya...

Jaie Miller
07-05-2008, 06:03 PM
Without wishing to diminish the effects of our fucked up society on women, that is also how a lot of men experience rejection in my experience.

that riply quote is epic (believe it or not)

I don't think 'getting' a woman should be about corage either.

Jaie Miller
07-05-2008, 06:04 PM
or spelling.

Jaie Miller
07-05-2008, 06:05 PM
well if this wasn't a public forum, i could tell you an interesting story about that.

I'm glad I didn't!!!! Now that I think about.

Corpsey
07-05-2008, 09:54 PM
I saw a good looking person with working internal organs the other day and you know I couldn't let that slide...

Another notch in the face with the stanley knife then :o

Pulchritude
13-05-2008, 05:47 PM
I've recently had a revelation and realised that all of the males whom I've been very attracted to have one, or more, noticeable flaw(s). I'm beginning to think that good looking people with stuff are just far too intimidating for me.

zhao
13-05-2008, 09:46 PM
well if it's any consolation a lot of people with stuff i think are hideous... if i had one USD for every grossly overweight lard ass that i witnessed squeeze out of some sleek sports car...

zhao
13-05-2008, 09:47 PM
and a lot of good looking people are jack asses.

Mr. Tea
13-05-2008, 10:00 PM
It's easier to be good looking if you've got money, though - gym membership, decent clothes, dental work if you need it, that sort of thing. A good diet helps of course, too.*



*the fact that - in the UK - it's more expensive to live on junk food than it is to eat healthily is another discussion for another thread, of course...

Pestario
14-05-2008, 01:01 PM
It's easier to be good looking if you've got money, though - gym membership, decent clothes, dental work if you need it, that sort of thing. A good diet helps of course, too.*



*the fact that - in the UK - it's more expensive to live on junk food than it is to eat healthily is another discussion for another thread, of course...

I guess you could 'live' on junior spesh everyday, that would be cheap :P

Mr. Tea
14-05-2008, 01:20 PM
I guess you could 'live' on junior spesh everyday, that would be cheap :P

Not as cheap as Tesco Value spuds, veg and pork chops!