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View Full Version : censorship on dissensus: the disappearance of the confessions thread



polz
04-04-2008, 11:51 AM
i'm quite sure there was a thread over here with confessions. People talked about Paris stinking, New York stinking, swears posted a nice picture, for which mistersloane offered him a nice service. Zhao said some ill-advised stuff. Then Nomos said it was the worst thread he ever saw, and now the whole thread is gone. What happened? Am i delusional or is there some kind of censorship going on around here?

noel emits
04-04-2008, 12:04 PM
Basically you have to realise that this a privately owned and financed service. You might disagree with a decision but it's not yours to make. If someone has something to say there's no shortage of places they can say it.

swears
04-04-2008, 12:16 PM
Think that thread got deleted because it was a bit dumb and childish, rather than because it contained insightful, challenging opinions that threatened the dissensus status quo or anything like that. I like to arse around and bust lols as much as anyone, but I think the board was better when the general tone was uh... weightier.

vimothy
04-04-2008, 12:17 PM
Yeah, Dissensus isn't an anarchist state, but I'm fine with that.

john eden
04-04-2008, 12:24 PM
i'm quite sure there was a thread over here with confessions. People talked about Paris stinking, New York stinking, swears posted a nice picture, for which mistersloane offered him a nice service. Zhao said some ill-advised stuff. Then Nomos said it was the worst thread he ever saw, and now the whole thread is gone. What happened? Am i delusional or is there some kind of censorship going on around here?

A number of threads were deleted last night, including that one and one which had half a dozen quite graphic links to porn videos.

Mods also routinely delete emails offering cheap viagra and amazing offers to win ipods.

So, no, you are not delusional. There is no complete freedom of speech on Dissensus and never has been.

The thread in question was the subject of a number of concerned pms by posters here. At least 2 moderators agreed with those concerns.

Our main issue was with some comments being borderline racist, but also the distinct possiblity that that level of "confessional" content would escalate given the OP's "post anything, everything will be forgiven" tone.

I can understand that people might not agree with our decision but I have seen threads of a similar nature (on other boards) which have become most unpleasant very quickly.

noel emits
04-04-2008, 12:46 PM
No-one's censoring the internet. Nearly anyone can start a blog or whatever.

Not 100% sure but I think the legal would be that board operators can be held responsible for what's published on their server, so if it's felt that something is unacceptable that's the operators call to make.

I do understand it can be infuriating sometimes if you are used to the idea that you can say what you like. For the most part this board is moderated with exemplary moderation compared to other places.

noel emits
04-04-2008, 12:57 PM
'I' don't monitor it. I do see why that thread was problematic, but that's beside the point. Anyway I'll butt out now, not really my concern.

bassnation
04-04-2008, 02:00 PM
have seen threads of a similar nature (on other boards) which have become most unpleasant very quickly.

spill the beans then eden! bugger, wish i'd caught this one before it was swept away. when someone tells me i can't read something i will go to inordinate lengths to do so. but i understand this place is moderated, and thats the koo with such set ups.

nomos
04-04-2008, 02:13 PM
this reeks of pre-emptive censorhip. i think you always have to be careful with that
It wasn't pre-emptive. The first post expressed distaste toward a host of ethnic groups and encouraged others to follow suit. By the fifth post, the population of an entire continent were being called liars. Any pretensions to that being legitimate, insightful discourse or just harmless fun are completely hollow. Likewise, the charge of PC beard strokers getting worked up over nothing.


but I think the board was better when the general tone was uh... weightier.
Agreed, and I know that threads like that one have deterred a number of other people from posting here.

vimothy
04-04-2008, 02:14 PM
spill the beans then eden! bugger, wish i'd caught this one before it was swept away. one someone tells me i can't read something i will go to inordinate lengths to do so.

It's really not worth the fuss -- it was pretty pointless & along the lines of "confess to thinking something naughty":

"I don't care what the Arsenal vs Liverpool score was".

"London smells".

"I don't like Iraqis".

Etc....

Sick Boy
04-04-2008, 02:21 PM
I will admit, it was a heinous abuse of my freedom of speech to confess I once had a moustache. It took a lot of inner strength to admit that, and some things are better left unsaid.

I have noticed recently a surge of anti-intellectualism here at Dissensus though, and not just in this thread. I don't think it is without value at times, however.

noel emits
04-04-2008, 02:24 PM
Agreed, and I know that threads like that one have deterred a number of other people from posting here.
Well indeed. Awful as it is to have one's insightful and unique genius sullied by proximity to such inanity some of us just have to get on with it.

Seriously that does sound incredibly snooty.

Gah, never mind. Amazing how bad threads / moderation issues always have this knock-on effect where everyone vents.

I'm sure things will correct themselves. If there's something interesting to be brought up and discussed it will be, there's nothing stopping that really. At times there's going to be periods of idle chatter and jokes. Who's to say it isn't all idle chatter and jokes.

zhao
04-04-2008, 02:28 PM
i guess it was easy to misread and mis interpret my comments. just as well it's all gone.

nomos
04-04-2008, 02:29 PM
Seriously that does sound incredibly snooty.
Alright, more directly then: the casual racism, sexism, and homophobia that some people here get off on pisses people off and makes them not want to bother with the forum. Moreover, if you call people on it you get jumped on for not being a good sport, too "PC." It's fucking tedious.

or maybe stelfox said it better in the deleted thread..

i actually really think it should be locked off or binned. the board wasn't started for this.
it was started in order to talk about music and general cultural stuff.
this kind of thing makes me not want to post here or even read the board.
the only confessions that should be made here are of the me not giving a shit about on-u sound productions variety.


no, this sort of shit pisses me off. conspiracy theories, personal revelations, revealing too much about your own life/hang-ups/problems, the kind of stupid stuff that's happened here. it just doesn't belong here. if i had my way, i'd ban people for it. i can think of at least 10 so far who deserve to be banned equally as much as padrag.

noel emits
04-04-2008, 02:33 PM
the casual racism, sexism, and homophobia that some people here get off on pisses people off
Well I don't see that much of that sort of thing, maybe I just let it go for the most part, but yes of course, crushingly tedious indeed.

You're going to say I'm main culprit now. Must watch myself when throwing around casual remarks about Mick Huckn4ll. Sorry Mick.

Chef Napalm
04-04-2008, 02:55 PM
I once had a moustache. It took a lot of inner strength to admit that, and some things are better left unsaid.
Did you look like Freddy Mercury?

Sick Boy
04-04-2008, 03:02 PM
Did you look like Freddy Mercury?

I aspired to, I think.
The result was sort of Mike Patton on a bad day.

STN
04-04-2008, 03:12 PM
I too had a moustache.

vimothy
04-04-2008, 03:15 PM
I too had a moustache.

Before or after you became a cheerleader?

vimothy
04-04-2008, 03:17 PM
so you as a moderator quote and agree with somebody who wants to ban people for revealing too much about their own lifes/hang-ups/problems. should this be considered an official warning?

Just let it go mate -- it was a daft thread and there will be plenty more, anyway...

john eden
04-04-2008, 03:18 PM
should this be considered an official warning?


No.

Sick Boy
04-04-2008, 03:43 PM
somebody who wants to ban people for revealing too much about their own lifes/hang-ups/problems.

It's funny that this is only now being cited as an issue. Some of Dissensus' main contributors do this rampantly.
I don't so much find this a banable or deletable offence as just sort of ill-advised and annoying though. And only in certain cases.

In a way, some poster's massively inflated egos and extreme narcissism give this board some colour at the very least. I actually miss Logan for that reason. :P

bassnation
04-04-2008, 03:50 PM
It's funny that this is only now being cited as an issue. Some of Dissensus' main contributors do this rampantly.

no, its been raised as an issue many times before (maybe before you joined?)

i think racism on boards is absolutely unacceptable, and if thats what was on the thread then it deserves to be deleted. can't defend the indefensible, this should be bleedingly obvious to everyone.

personal shit is more problematic - not really a banning issue, but i do feel that people should be a bit more discreet when it comes to talking about drugs but i'm pretty paranoid about things like that.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
04-04-2008, 04:05 PM
I generally think the moderators act with a very light touch on this board, and the posters are generally mature enough to let them take that stance. I've never seen any really vicious flame wars on dissensus which makes a change from most other forums.

The board has been a bit too intellectual for it's own good at times in the past, so like sick boy I don't think that whimsical, superficial or just plain stupid threads are per se a bad thing.

I'm not sure that the pointlessness of a thread is a sufficient criteria upon which to ban it - on the other hand, I support the moderators in taking a stand against thoughtless and intolerent posts creeping in under a smokescreen of anti-PC 'humour'.

Generally if i think people are talking crap I just ignore them - it's a lot easier on-line than it is in real life.

john eden
04-04-2008, 05:02 PM
are you joking now, polz?

Sick Boy
04-04-2008, 05:03 PM
i do feel that people should be a bit more discreet when it comes to talking about drugs but i'm pretty paranoid about things like that.

Just out of curiosity, are there any other reasons for this other than it just sort of being obnoxious more-fucked-up-than-thou chest-beating most of the time it occurs? Where is the paranoia coming from?

john eden
04-04-2008, 05:04 PM
Where is the paranoia coming from?


LOL.

zhao
04-04-2008, 05:13 PM
zhao said he hated the lying in africa

that's like saying i hate the bureaucratic corruption in India. and i did say i don't like how chinese people run their companies.

me and my (African) friends were JUST talking about the lies of many africans. all the shifty, well dressed con-artists or just plain pretending to be what they're not. but yeah it doesn't translate well -- mentioning a real social issue can be easily construed as racism. i understand that.


zhao was being sexist on the "good looking people with stuff" thread

um... i said someone was wearing a "slut costume".

would it be better to say "overtly provocative and revealing clothing resembling the uniform of sex-workers"?

plus the whole POINT was not to judge a book by its cover because she turned out to be the opposite of a "stupid slut". oh whatever...

swears
04-04-2008, 05:14 PM
Maybe all the arsing around and silly buggers stuff can be contained within the misc board?

RE: the board getting dumber...

The thing that initially attracted me to dissensus was the mix of academic stuff and popular culture. Post-structural analysis of TV sci-fi, marxist critiques of the rave massive, that sort of thing. If it was just academic it would be dull, and if it was just another dance music board that'd suck too. Gotta keep a balance, innit.

zhao
04-04-2008, 05:16 PM
If it was just academic it would be dull, and if it was just another dance music board that'd suck too. Gotta keep a balance, innit.

word to that

Mr. Tea
04-04-2008, 05:18 PM
me and my (African) friends were JUST talking about the lies of many africans. all the shifty, well dressed con-artists or just plain pretending to be what they're not.


Oh zhao, you didn't fall for the "exiled Nigerian millionaire", did you? :(

*shakes head*

Sick Boy
04-04-2008, 05:23 PM
Oh zhao, you didn't fall for the "exiled Nigerian millionaire", did you? :(

*shakes head*

:D

crackerjack
04-04-2008, 05:27 PM
Oh zhao, you didn't fall for the "exiled Nigerian millionaire", did you? :(

*shakes head*

Ha, fool. Good thing the bloke from the Ivory Coast embassy who wants to buy my flat was genuine. He's calling back any minute now.

zhao
04-04-2008, 05:34 PM
Oh zhao, you didn't fall for the "exiled Nigerian millionaire", did you? :(

*shakes head*

ha! no... but we do have a common friend. this dude is UNbelievable. you would tell him something like oh i used to dj at this place and he would try to tell you that he dj'd there too. just making stuff up as he goes along. it's incredible. and all the time! it's crazy!

Mr. Tea
04-04-2008, 05:41 PM
There's a condition, isn't there, that makes people compulsively lie? Or rather, that describes people who do this.

Sick Boy
04-04-2008, 05:49 PM
There's a condition, isn't there, that makes people compulsively lie? Or rather, that describes people who do this.

I know a guy connected loosely to my social group who does this to a point where it almost becomes surreal. He lies to the point where his claims aren't even just unbelievable, they are straight up scientifically impossible. And he does this quite deadpan and naturally. Amongst the things I've heard him say over the years:

a) He was a coke dealer, made $500,000, and quit after he killed a man (this is what he told me when I met him actually)
b) He is part native (he isn't), and so therefore he can talk to animals (... he can't.)
c) One of my closest friends is his biological brother (which is incredible because, well, they have different parents)
d) A rich uncle has left him millions of dollars and a huge house in the States, but he isn't allowed to touch it until he is a certain age

There are loads more. The strangest part is that his friends don't ever call him out on it, and generally just let him talk. It feels like a weird dream when you hang out with all of them together.

mistersloane
04-04-2008, 05:54 PM
The thread was rubbish, it's not worth talking about, even Jaie said to delete it when he started it.

With reference to the board being too light hearted though, I refer you to one of our newest members, Connell's post here

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=295&page=14

which might balance things out a bit.

swears
04-04-2008, 05:57 PM
There's a condition, isn't there, that makes people compulsively lie? Or rather, that describes people who do this.

Oh boy, there was this nerdy middle-aged guy at work who used to tell us all kinds of lies about his life outside. Had a computing degree, then a molecular biology degree (although he didn't know what DNA stood for in the xmas quiz) had a girlfriend who looked like Angelina Jolie, then one who looked like Liz Hurley, he'd say he'd been on holiday to Monte Carlo or somewhere (even though people had seen him in town during his time off) just stupid, ego-boosting things. I'd just let him talk himself into hilarious scenarios and contradictions. Seemed cruel to call him out on it, plus it was great entertainment.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 06:12 PM
Now if we only erased threads that were *actually* chock full of literal racist, homophobic, and sexist posts, we'd be doing some important business.

As it is this place just gets sadder all the time, and not because the "intelligence-level" of the posts has changed one bit. I've been reading dissensus for a few years and I don't think the general tenor has changed at all. It's just that some people (like Stelfox) now get called out on shit and don't like some of the new posters, so they bitch and whine about it (apparently) to mods all the time (GROW UP.)

I happen to like when people drag the political down to that horrible pedestrian level of the personal (oh god, someone related something to their personal experience? my discourselevelometer is going off like crazy). Personally, I find nothing more tedious than people arguing at fucking length about whether "dubstep is it" or some of what passes for "music discussion." To me, those are some of the lamest, most absolutely tedious watching-paint-dry waste of times online. Not the threads where people share personal experiences and compare theirs with others. That's called not being an autistic dork who spends 100% of their time locked up at home counting their vinyl.

It's the fucking internet. If you don't like something don't click on it.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 06:14 PM
The thread was rubbish, it's not worth talking about, even Jaie said to delete it when he started it.

With reference to the board being too light hearted though, I refer you to one of our newest members, Connell's post here

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=295&page=14

which might balance things out a bit.

I didn't see the thread, but from what I can tell it was no more or less ridiculous than 99% of what gets posted on here.

I don't want to defend something that doesn't need defending, especially if you think erasing that made sense, Sloane, but jesissss.

It seems like the real problem is that some of the oldest posters don't feel like this is their own little private corner of the internet anymore. In that case, start another message board--this is what happens to message boards over time, people join them and you lose control of the exact way in which people post.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 06:21 PM
are you joking now, polz?

:rolleyes:

Yes, it was utterly ridiculous of polz to agree with me about the use of the word "slut" in the "good looking people with stuff" thread, though let's not forget we outright banned a poster for calling someone a "political slut" not too long ago.

slim jenkins
04-04-2008, 06:23 PM
That's called not being an autistic dork who spends 100% of their time locked up at home counting their vinyl.



:D That's classic.

Being a lightweight (newish) contributor I can't comment on the past state of the forum. It's obvious there's a place for light banter and heavy discussion (theoretical/personal or the theory of the personal). Everyone puts in what they can or ignores a thread, don't they? I've seen this on other forums where those who complain aren't doing anything to make the place more like they want it to be. Some are shy of starting threads for fear that they'll be ignored/laughed at or whatever. Between writing a novel and working I can't put in as much as I'd like sometimes but from what I've seen so far this looks like a good forum and the major players should be proud of that.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 06:27 PM
There's a condition, isn't there, that makes people compulsively lie? Or rather, that describes people who do this.

Oh boy, there was this nerdy middle-aged guy at work who used to tell us all kinds of lies about his life outside. Had a computing degree, then a molecular biology degree (although he didn't know what DNA stood for in the xmas quiz) had a girlfriend who looked like Angelina Jolie, then one who looked like Liz Hurley, he'd say he'd been on holiday to Monte Carlo or somewhere (even though people had seen him in town during his time off) just stupid, ego-boosting things. I'd just let him talk himself into hilarious scenarios and contradictions. Seemed cruel to call him out on it, plus it was great entertainment.

It's called "pathological liar"...I used to live with someone who was like this and I always wondered why she did it, then I found out she had really severe borderline personality disorder and she didn't even know she was lying most of the time.

She told really grand stories about waking up under waterfalls and getting chased by masked intruders in her car until she crashed into a tree three states later. I realized at some point that some of the things she told as first-person narratives had actually happened to her friends or relatives but people with borderline personality disorder have very loose boundries around their "persona" and on top of that have a very deepseated need to please people so they lie if they have to in order to be liked.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 06:32 PM
:D That's classic.

Being a lightweight (newish) contributor I can't comment on the past state of the forum. It's obvious there's a place for light banter and heavy discussion (theoretical/personal or the theory of the personal). Everyone puts in what they can or ignores a thread, don't they? I've seen this on other forums where those who complain aren't doing anything to make the place more like they want it to be. Some are shy of starting threads for fear that they'll be ignored/laughed at or whatever. Between writing a novel and working I can't put in as much as I'd like sometimes but from what I've seen so far this looks like a good forum and the major players should be proud of that.

Agreed. And on top of this, I think that there are some sections of the board that are going to lend themselves more to silly threads. If you don't like silly threads, don't read the Misc section, for example.

And get over yourself--you'll be ok if you read a personal detail about a stranger's life. The threads that are started as friendly discussions about personal experience are easy to identify and to ignore.

Jaie Miller
04-04-2008, 06:50 PM
oh i do hate to cause a stir.

yes yes delete away very blah.

That Iraqi thing was eating me away for a long time. They are awefully bombed.

I don't suppose I'm more annoying than a fly is when you're on holiday, I'm only looking for somewhere to regurgitate.

Or over hearing a bad conversation on public transport. Better to carry an iPod nowdays.

The talk of boards not being what they used to be is very common.

I get the uniting over a common enemy feel though, but couldn't care less.

Saul Williams did a nike advert and blew my morals away.

~Jeffery

Jaie Miller
04-04-2008, 06:52 PM
I like to giggle online.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 06:55 PM
Did you really say you dislike Iraqis? That's just inflammatory. Maybe it's best not to type things that will be misconstrued. It sounds like you're being perverse and enjoying all of this, though, in which case--you got what you wished for.

mistersloane
04-04-2008, 07:07 PM
I don't want to defend something that doesn't need defending, especially if you think erasing that made sense, Sloane, but jesissss.
.

Ah misread I think, I was just pointing out that for each person that might not want to post because of the frivolity in some sections - I'd read it as friendliness, and bored people at work - there may equally be people who aren't posting cos of the more intellectual side of things. It works both ways, y'know? I like all of it, I think balance is healthy.

nomos
04-04-2008, 07:09 PM
The original post in the Confessions thread was:
"I don't really like Iraqi people. Post your confessions here. Guilt free honesty. Forgiveness garenteed."
This was the premise of the thread.
This is why the thread was deleted.
It would have been deleted without zhao adding flippant generalizations about Africans
It was not deleted because mistersloane mentioned blow jobs.

THERE IS NO MOD CONSPIRACY TO STIFLE FUN OR SILLY THREADS, NOR DISCUSSIONS OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE :rolleyes:

@ nomadologist
You didn't see the thread so it would be difficult for you to have an informed opinion about it.


I happen to like when people drag the political down to that horrible pedestrian level of the personal (oh god, someone related something to their personal experience? my discourselevelometer is going off like crazy).
There's a difference between the politics of the personal and confessional, more-extreme-than-though one-upmanship as in the D R U G S and S E X threads. It's the latter that was being criticized, and not from a moralistic standpoint.


Personally, I find nothing more tedious than people arguing at fucking length about whether "dubstep is it" or some of what passes for "music discussion."
To paraphrase your words: "It's a music forum. If you don't like something don't click on it."


It seems like the real problem is that some of the oldest posters don't feel like this is their own little private corner of the internet anymore. In that case, start another message board--this is what happens to message boards over time, people join them and you lose control of the exact way in which people post.
Given the actual reason for the Confessions thread being deleted, I don't see how this is a relevant comment. Not to mention that polz and noel emits have been members since 2004.

@ noel emits
I'm still not sure how pointing out that people have left the forum over perceived intolerance makes me into a snooty elitist. First you agreed with the decision to delete the thread and then had a go at me for explaining the reasons.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 07:10 PM
Ah misread I think, I was just pointing out that for each person that might not want to post because of the frivolity in some sections - I'd read it as friendliness, and bored people at work - there may equally be people who aren't posting cos of the more intellectual side of things. It works both ways, y'know? I like all of it, I think balance is healthy.

Ahh I see. Agreed.

mistersloane
04-04-2008, 07:12 PM
It was not deleted because mistersloane mentioned blow jobs.
.

Damn.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 07:15 PM
The original post in the Confessions thread was:
"I don't really like Iraqi people. Post your confessions here. Guilt free honesty. Forgiveness garenteed."
This is was the premise of the thread.
This is why the thread was deleted.
It would have been deleted without zhao adding flippant generalizations about Africans
It was not deleted because mistersloane mentioned blow jobs.

THERE IS NO MOD CONSPIRACY TO STIFLE FUN OR SILLY THREADS, NOR DISCUSSIONS OF PERSONAL EXPERIENCE :rolleyes:

@ nomadologist
You didn't see the thread so it would be difficult for you to have an informed opinion about it.


There's a difference between the politics of the personal and confessional, more-extreme-than-though one-upmanship as in the D R U G S and S E X threads. It's the latter that was being criticized, and not from a moralistic standpoint.


To paraphrase your words: "It's a music forum. If you don't like something don't click on it."


Given the actual reason for the Confessions thread being deleted, I don't see how this is a relevant comment. Not to mention that polz and noel emits have been members since 2004.

@ noel emits
I'm still not sure how pointing out that people have left the forum over perceived intolerance makes me into a snooty elitist. First you agreed with the decision to delete the thread and then had a go at me for explaining the reasons.

Who ever said there was a "conspiracy" of any kind? I didn't. I just pointed out based on what you and John Eden have said that it seems some people spend a whole lot of time bitching about threads they don't like.

The drugs and sex threads were so utterly harmless that I think anyone with a basic high school level of maturity saw them as absurd and couldn't have cared less. Is there really something wrong with discussing sex and drugs? I have no problems with it, but I guess some people are just that hung up and repressed, that they can't abide by reading about someone else's sex or drug preferences on the internet. Please. This isn't a children's forum, is it? What other reason but a moralistic uptight one would there be to object to people talking about things like that? If you don't like it you don't have to read it.

And as far as boring dubstep "oneupmanship" threads are concerned--I don't click on them or read them. I do my best to avoid them, and usually do just fine. I also don't write to mods and bitch about them, though, either.

crackerjack
04-04-2008, 07:15 PM
Damn.

I can pretend to be disgusted if you like.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 07:18 PM
[B]Given the actual reason for the Confessions thread being deleted, I don't see how this is a relevant comment. Not to mention that polz and noel emits have been members since 2004.

@ noel emits
I'm still not sure how pointing out that people have left the forum over perceived intolerance makes me into a snooty elitist. First you agreed with the decision to delete the thread and then had a go at me for explaining the reasons.

I wasn't talking about polz or Noel Emits there.

nomos
04-04-2008, 07:22 PM
OK, nomad, your two posts just totally confirmed that you barely read things before you respond to them. I'm not going to bother sorting through all of it.

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 07:23 PM
Excuse me? I responded to that post of yours point for point. What exactly did I not read?

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 07:29 PM
you could also have:
closed the thread, but leave it there
post a reply, stating your disgust at the op

but no, you chose to delete the whole thread, which was already 3 pages long, and not about the op alone anymore. i, for one, enjoyed it.
If somebody finds offense at the original post of the grime thread, will you also delete the whole thread

But polz, if you leave open a confessional thread, someone might talk about (gasp) sex or (gasp) drugs on it! Goodness me that would be terribly inappropriate to do on the internet!

Sick Boy
04-04-2008, 07:31 PM
But polz, if you leave open a confessional thread, someone might talk about (gasp) sex or (gasp) drugs on it! Goodness me that would be terribly inappropriate to do on the internet!

They didn't delete the sex and drugs threads though did they?

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 07:40 PM
They didn't delete the sex and drugs threads though did they?

Hmm I don't think so. I saw that someone had posted recently on the drugs thread a few days ago.

nomos
04-04-2008, 07:44 PM
you could also have:
closed the thread, but leave it there
Why would we leave a thread up that invites people to post racist statements?


post a reply, stating your disgust at the op
I did. as did eden and others.

Just to reiterate, there's no injunction against moustache and football confessionals (http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?p=132576) at Dissensus. It's the ethnic slurring we're dealing with here. Not as complicated as this thread makes out.

john eden
04-04-2008, 07:54 PM
Hmm I don't think so. I saw that someone had posted recently on the drugs thread a few days ago.

Thank you for noticing that.

john eden
04-04-2008, 07:56 PM
If somebody finds offense at the original post of the grime thread, will you also delete the whole thread

Sorry, are you joking here again?

nomadologist
04-04-2008, 08:01 PM
Would it be best to take them down, though, if we're going to take down other confessional threads?

I honestly don't see how talking about enjoying a drug experience with others who have also had similar (or different) experience is problematic at all, or any different from people talking to each other about why they like x band or y genre of music. Ditto with sex.

I think the real problem here--and the reason why these things seem to come to a head--runs deeper. It must, because there are constant inuendos made by mods about how many people just hate any thread that is not some sort of bickering argument about microgenres of music. Constant allusions to the fact that older posters don't like the style of posting that some newer posters use, to the glory days of dissensus, whatever those were.

But of course it will continue to go unacknowledged, so why bother?

john eden
04-04-2008, 08:29 PM
Would it be best to take them down, though, if we're going to take down other confessional threads?

Are they racist? If so, yes. Please report the posts concerned to the moderators.


I honestly don't see how talking about enjoying a drug experience with others who have also had similar (or different) experience is problematic at all, or any different from people talking to each other about why they like x band or y genre of music. Ditto with sex.

Indeed.


I think the real problem here--and the reason why these things seem to come to a head--runs deeper. It must, because there are constant inuendos made by mods about how many people just hate any thread that is not some sort of bickering argument about microgenres of music. Constant allusions to the fact that older posters don't like the style of posting that some newer posters use, to the glory days of dissensus, whatever those were.

But of course it will continue to go unacknowledged, so why bother?

I haven't seen this?! Constant allusions?

I don't remember seeing any reference to older posters, (except by you?) Upthread you have made an incorrect assumption about the identity of one of the people who had an issue about the thread in question.

On a personal level I am entirely happy with how dissensus is right now, and with the moderating decisions, and with the discussions of the moderating decisions.

It is... As It Is. :)

Jaie Miller
04-04-2008, 10:23 PM
It sounds like you're being perverse and enjoying all of this, though, in which case--you got what you wished for.

you are wrong.

All the voices in my head are telling me to erase myself as they were last night as I lay awake. I will not post here for a long time, and the 'problem' will not go away.

I've seen more hate in a christian prayer group.

What the mods did is like having a fly coming in the room while you are eating and then throwing the food away just in case it lands on the food. or a better analogy.

I briefly scanned the board and posted where I thought matched the post. blah. big deal.

Goodbye.

nomadologist
05-04-2008, 08:18 AM
you are wrong.

All the voices in my head are telling me to erase myself as they were last night as I lay awake. I will not post here for a long time, and the 'problem' will not go away.

I've seen more hate in a christian prayer group.

What the mods did is like having a fly coming in the room while you are eating and then throwing the food away just in case it lands on the food. or a better analogy.

I briefly scanned the board and posted where I thought matched the post. blah. big deal.

Goodbye.

Jaie I know lots of people who will help who for free. SEroiously. If u want it. Let me know.

craner
05-04-2008, 09:31 AM
You're all crazy the forum's got more intelligent not less! You should've seen this place when it started.

no, this sort of shit pisses me off. conspiracy theories, personal revelations, revealing too much about your own life/hang-ups/problems, the kind of stupid stuff that's happened here. it just doesn't belong here. if i had my way, i'd ban people for it. i can think of at least 10 so far who deserve to be banned equally as much as padrag.

Oh, man! I always thought Stelfox was my friend.

Martin Dust
05-04-2008, 10:06 AM
Someone is all-ways wrong on the internet. This is a good place to hang, the mods do a good job.

bassnation
05-04-2008, 10:44 AM
when memory serves me right you have to be talking about eiter of these posts on the deleted thread:
somebody said he didnt like iraqis
mistersloane offered to blow somebody
zhao said he hated the lying in africa

are you callin zhao a racist, or mistersloane a homophobe?

fucking hell mate, you've just summed up succinctly why that thread had to die. surely you don't need someone to explain in excruciating detail why those things fell prey to moderation?

and i'm not talking about the blowjobs, like, who gives a shit about that?

i know you aren't that dense.

zhao
05-04-2008, 12:21 PM
funny how that line get repeated. i also said i hated the sense of entitlement in america.

Jaie Miller
05-04-2008, 12:29 PM
My apology:

It was wrong of me to assume that Africa stinks.

I honestly believe that the people of Iraq are good people.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

To those concerned with my mental health. I am fine.

Thank you for your help in the past.

Jaie

stelfox
05-04-2008, 12:56 PM
like most of us, i do most of my posting and reading of dissensus as a distraction from work. like most of us, i assume, i like it when the board is entertaining; something to take my mind off what i'm doing. that means that i and many other people enjoy dumb/whimsical/funny posting/threads equally as much as i/they enjoy thought-provoking analytical ones. that thread was't deleted or objected to because it was stupid, it was deleted because it was extremely ill advised, even without the racism. this community has some really great members, people that i'm happy to hang out with virtually and in real life, but lately i've noticed some pretty infuriating/borderline psychotic things happening and it's a real shame. i come here to talk about music and to learn about other stuff that i know less about. i do not want to know about people's real or imagined drug histories, their real or imagined mental illnesses, their real or imagined confessions, their real or imagined sex lives or anything like that (real or imagined). i doubt i'm alone in this. there are other boards to talk about that kind of stuff on and that would probably be of more use to the people in question than here anyway. i objected to that thread, because if that becomes the mean standard of discourse here, you can count me out and, i'm guessing, quite a few of our best posters, too. for that reason, i'm very glad it's gone. i think a good rule of thumb is that if people don't want to be censored, then they shouldn't do things that might provide pretty decent grounds for censorship.

zhao
05-04-2008, 01:22 PM
i do not want to know about people's drug histories, their mental illnesses, true life confessions, their sex lives or anything like that, really, and i doub't i'm alone in this. there are other boards to talk about that kind of stuff on.

one of the good things about the internet is the blurring and dissolving of societal boundaries -- as we all sit alone, but together, in private, but in public, sharing thoughts and experiences.

if those people who share personal stories can reflect on them and speak thoughtfully about them, and maybe connect them to global issues, well THAT is what will distinguish this board from Yahoo Chats -- and not the absence of "personal stories" altogether.

a more open forum where people are NOT afraid to reveal more of their inner lives can only be that much more rewarding than this place already is. (it will never become Yahoo Chats because there are not many yahoos here -- insert joke about me being one here)

_________________________

how do you determine what is an OK personal story to tell here and what isn't? obviously you can't ban all "personal stories" because all the threads about walks in the park and bicycles would be deleted as well. so... what? no sex? no drugs? what about parties? because they often involve one or the other or most likely both.

it's all connected isn't it, our interest in music and clothes and parties and love and sex and psychoanalysis and theory and captitalism and addiction. and if you start censoring parts of it the slide is looking pretty slippery from here.

and I is gonna turn this whole post teal. just because i like it like that.

stelfox
05-04-2008, 01:23 PM
Now if we only erased threads that were *actually* chock full of literal racist, homophobic, and sexist posts, we'd be doing some important business.

As it is this place just gets sadder all the time, and not because the "intelligence-level" of the posts has changed one bit. I've been reading dissensus for a few years and I don't think the general tenor has changed at all. It's just that some people (like Stelfox) now get called out on shit and don't like some of the new posters, so they bitch and whine about it (apparently) to mods all the time (GROW UP.)

I happen to like when people drag the political down to that horrible pedestrian level of the personal (oh god, someone related something to their personal experience? my discourselevelometer is going off like crazy). Personally, I find nothing more tedious than people arguing at fucking length about whether "dubstep is it" or some of what passes for "music discussion." To me, those are some of the lamest, most absolutely tedious watching-paint-dry waste of times online. Not the threads where people share personal experiences and compare theirs with others. That's called not being an autistic dork who spends 100% of their time locked up at home counting their vinyl.

It's the fucking internet. If you don't like something don't click on it.

er, i posted my views in the open because i thought it was a bizarre, distasteful and potentially quite ugly thread.
nomos did the same.
i was glad to see he had.
i have never complained to a moderator about anything, ever, and don't plan to start now.
and, just for the sake of my own curiosity, what precisely have i been "called out" on?
i think it would probably be a good idea not to go down this route.
after all, my contributions to the board are usually pretty well considered and rarely that contentious.
they're also generally not rooted in complete fantasy, either.
know what i'm sayin'?
and before anyone thinks that i'm a cold-hearted ass for saying that i don't want to read about people's hang-ups, foibles and peccadilloes, if someone is posting genuinely and asking for advice about a given subject, i don't think that anybody in their right mind would have a problem with it.
that's what all communites, real or virtual do; they share information.
i just don't want to see this board turned into a weird, attenuated game of truth or dare or a forum where all manner of batshit behaviour is completely acceptable. like i say, there are other places for that.
also, considering the amount of nonsense that gets passed off as wisdom here, i'd be careful to make sure that the person dishing out any advice you are thinking of taking or information you are thinking of following up is actually being honest about their own experiences and does have half a clue what they're talking about.

noel emits
05-04-2008, 03:08 PM
Given the actual reason for the Confessions thread being deleted, I don't see how this is a relevant comment. Not to mention that polz and noel emits have been members since 2004.

@ noel emits
I'm still not sure how pointing out that people have left the forum over perceived intolerance makes me into a snooty elitist. First you agreed with the decision to delete the thread and then had a go at me for explaining the reasons.
Hey, sorry - I realised that may have been phrased badly - I meant it sounded a little snooty of the people you were referring to, not a lot snooty of you. Like people were sulking about a lack of high mindedness or whatever. That's great of course but can get tiresome, there's a social element to the jokes - just friendliness and idling like mistersloane said. I do understand there are reasons why people might not feel like posting but as someone said above if things aren't the way you would prefer then make a contribution that helps to nudge discussion in that direction, maybe. Not having a go at anyone anyway.

I've also noted Jaie's sense of humour and initially read the thread in that spirit but of course sometimes being provocative like that is inadvisable on a public forum.

The other bit I'm not sure I understand if it is in reference to nomad talking about people complaining about the tone of board changing. I hope I haven't done that, I think it's fine.

nomos
05-04-2008, 04:46 PM
ah, ok. sorry i mistook you there. thanks for clearing that up noel ;)

nomos
05-04-2008, 05:03 PM
The other bit I'm not sure I understand if it is in reference to nomad talking about people complaining about the tone of board changing. I hope I haven't done that, I think it's fine.
If you mean this...

Given the actual reason for the Confessions thread being deleted, I don't see how this is a relevant comment. Not to mention that polz and noel emits have been members since 2004.
...that stems from the confusion you and I just cleared up. Nomad was claiming that the deleted thread was further evidence of older members ganging up on newer members. So I pointed to you and polz as examples of members from start who in fact opposed the stance of the mods in this case. Except now I realize I'd misinterpreted your position.

noel emits
05-04-2008, 05:43 PM
A lot of registered users that hardly ever post, don't mean vvviagra vendors. That's probably always the case with message boards but hopefully everyone feels they can express opinions or bring up topics without being accused of pitching it too dumb / too pretentious etc.

zhao
05-04-2008, 07:28 PM
by the way the teal post above is not in defense of the recently deceased thread.

i will be more careful with the casual loose talk, because it is easily misinterpreted.

Martin Dust
05-04-2008, 08:11 PM
people on the internets like other people to be wrong

Mr. Tea
05-04-2008, 08:17 PM
people on the internets like other people to be wrong

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

bassnation
06-04-2008, 12:06 PM
another reason why these things are never a good idea:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7328708.stm

Mr. Tea
06-04-2008, 02:08 PM
interesting how it is the americans over here (zhao, nomad), who seem to have a problem with the deletion (not closing but deleting, as if it never existed) of threads and banning of users and subjects, while the brits dont care (its not worth it, not important) or even support it, as long as the censors, i mean mods, have "a good reason". Seems like you cant escape the place you were born.

I'm not sure I get you: American society as a whole is generally more censorious than British society, I'd have said, be it from a right-wing prospective ('family values', concern over 'blasphemy') or a left-wing one (political correctness). Of course that doesn't mean all Americans think that way, but it you're generalising about a whole country, I'd say you've got it the wrong way round...

bassnation
06-04-2008, 02:18 PM
interesting how it is the americans over here (zhao, nomad), who seem to have a problem with the deletion (not closing but deleting, as if it never existed) of threads and banning of users and subjects, while the brits dont care (its not worth it, not important) or even support it, as long as the censors, i mean mods, have "a good reason". Seems like you cant escape the place you were born.

i don't believe in unlimited freedom of speech, when it concerns racism. i don't see what this has to do with being british, american or any other nationality.

bassnation
06-04-2008, 03:21 PM
when people saying they dont like iraqis or they dont like that there is a lot of lying in africa would be what racism is about, this world would be a lot better of.

its clear that if you wish to express such sentiments, this is not the place to do it. i'm not sure where your going with this line of thought, just seems nonsensical to me. who on this forum says they don't like americans? what does this have to do with anything? i dunno, if this is the proposed level of discussion and quality of argument, maybe this thread needs to be locked or deleted too. theres always BNP and far right sites for topics like this.

Mr. Tea
06-04-2008, 03:32 PM
It's probably worth pointing out that there is no such 'race', or ethnic group if you prefer*, as 'American', since there are Americans of just about every ethnic origin in the world, so it's questionable whether a blanket hatred of Americans really counts as racism, per se. Then again, Iraq itself is ethnically heterogenous (though not to anything like the same extent). I don't think there's anything wrong with saying you don't like (some aspects of) the culture associated with a particular country or area of the world, but you'd still sound like a fool to say you "hate Americans" (for instance) just because you've met some Americans that rubbed you up the wrong way.


*leaving aside the done-to-death argument about whether race exists or not...

noel emits
06-04-2008, 03:59 PM
you'd still sound like a fool to say you "hate Americans" (for instance) just because you've met some Americans that rubbed you up the wrong way.
To be fair to that poster he did say it was a 'confession', he didn't claim it was a rational or admirable position. That was the point of the thread. I think it might be of value to discuss irrational prejudices openly and honestly but a public forum on the internet, even this one regrettably, is not the best place to try and do it.

It might have been interesting to look at the statements in that thread and maybe it is a shame it went but in reality I think if you've any experience of internet forums it didn't bode well really. I would like to have seen where things went but at the same time I can understand people being wary. Bloody wishy-washy Brits. ;)

booky
06-04-2008, 04:22 PM
There are 54 different countries on the continent of Africa. 54.

noel emits
06-04-2008, 04:25 PM
Polz - I don't think your stereotyping Americans as more likely to complain than Brits is very interesting or scientific given the tiny sample present in this thread and the fact that people have given widely different reasons for what they have said about the actions taken.

I do think you are right that the outcome could have been different if the initial statement was 'I don't like Americans' - rather than some other group, although that is completely ignoring the fact that the OP called for others to air their 'confessions'.

Perhaps more useful would be to say why you think that might be the case? Or why you think it matters. Like Mr Tea says, it's not really meaningful to identify 'Americans' as a single group.

zhao
06-04-2008, 05:55 PM
its clear that if you wish to express such sentiments, this is not the place to do it.

THERE ARE A LOT OF DRUNKS IN ENGLAND.

THERE ARE A LOT OF FATTIES IN AMERICA.

THERE ARE A LOT OF NERDS FROM CHINA.

THERE ARE A LOT OF UNFUNNY GERMANS.

THERE ARE SOME WEIRD ACCENTS IN CANADA.

THERE ARE A LOT OF CRIMINALS IN JAMAICA.

THERE ARE A LOT OF SNOBS IN FRANCE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF CRAZIES IN JAPAN.

AMEN.

swears
06-04-2008, 06:11 PM
A rainbow of love!

zhao
06-04-2008, 06:12 PM
united colors of free speech!

noel emits
06-04-2008, 06:42 PM
Generalisations about coloured people?

;)

Mr. Tea
06-04-2008, 07:26 PM
THERE ARE A LOT OF DRUNKS IN ENGLAND.

THERE ARE A LOT OF FATTIES IN AMERICA.

THERE ARE A LOT OF NERDS FROM CHINA.

THERE ARE A LOT OF UNFUNNY GERMANS.

THERE ARE SOME WEIRD ACCENTS IN CANADA.

THERE ARE A LOT OF CRIMINALS IN JAMAICA.

AMEN.

You forgot the snooty French and crazy Japanese. Pretty comprehensive list otherwise. :)

zhao
06-04-2008, 07:46 PM
You forgot the snooty French and crazy Japanese.

how TERRIBLY insensitive of me. will edit.

bassnation
06-04-2008, 11:04 PM
i didnt mean they are more likely to complain, i meant they were the defenders of freedom of speech, just as their country. Whereas the brits, from a country without a constitution, seem to be more ok with censorship. it was no big thing or scientific or anything, i just noticed it

another laughable generalisation. "defenders of freedom of speech, just like their country"? i'm sure theres a lot of americans who'd take issue with just how good defenders of this particular human right their government is.

at the end of the day its a modded board, there are plenty of unmodded boards out there if its a major issue.

Mr. Tea
06-04-2008, 11:26 PM
at the end of the day its a modded board, there are plenty of unmodded boards out there if its a major issue.

"ARE YOU A MOD?"

"Er...no?"

"THEN..."

http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/wp-content/ghostbusters-gozer.jpg

"...DIE!!!"

craner
06-04-2008, 11:27 PM
Oh, Ray!

Mr. Tea
06-04-2008, 11:36 PM
Oh, Ray!

*makes mental note to reply "Yes!" in future*

zhao
07-04-2008, 10:32 AM
just saw that my COLLAPSE thread is gone too. presumably for sharing a piece of commercially available copywritten material.

understandable, but too bad you can not see the importance of this work beyond stupid petty copy right issues.

I have friends that are friends with Jarred Diamond. I can find out if he minds me giving out his book for free. I bet you my month's salary he doesn't.

john eden
07-04-2008, 10:35 AM
just saw that my COLLAPSE thread is gone too. presumably for sharing a piece of commercially available copywritten material.

understandable, but too bad you can not see the importance of this work beyond stupid petty copy right issues.

I have friends that are friends with Jarred Diamond. I can find out if he minds me giving out his book for free. I bet you my month's salary he doesn't.

Can you also check with his publisher?

zhao
07-04-2008, 10:44 AM
Can you also check with his publisher?

i knew someone was going to say that... to which i have no answer. (throws hands up)

john eden
07-04-2008, 11:10 AM
i knew someone was going to say that... to which i have no answer. (throws hands up)

;)

zhao
07-04-2008, 12:40 PM
not a response to a specific post, but just thought would be appropriate for this thread:

http://i29.tinypic.com/av55pc.jpg

brown neon
07-04-2008, 08:33 PM
my contributions to the board are usually pretty well considered and rarely that contentious. they're also generally not rooted in complete fantasy, either.
know what i'm sayin'?

ha ha ha, nomadologist is the best. she used to be a coke dealer, made $500,000, and quit after she killed a man (this is what she told me when I met her actually). also, she can talk to animals and a rich uncle has left her millions of dollars and a huge house in the States, but she isn't allowed to touch it until she is a certain age.

bassnation
07-04-2008, 08:39 PM
ha ha ha, nomadologist is the best. she used to be a coke dealer, made $500,000, and quit after she killed a man (this is what she told me when I met her actually). also, she can talk to animals and a rich uncle has left her millions of dollars and a huge house in the States, but she isn't allowed to touch it until she is a certain age.

why don't you give her a break? she's also one of the boards funniest, intelligent and lucid contributors. not sure who you are though mate. in addition i think you should stfu about stuff that people have told you in real life.

zhao
07-04-2008, 08:47 PM
i don't think nomad has ever lied about her own life, how ever fanciful it may sound. (the drugs and the mob family and all that)

noel emits
07-04-2008, 08:56 PM
I think it's a gag of sorts.

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?p=132532

brown neon
07-04-2008, 08:57 PM
why don't you give her a break? she's also one of the boards funniest, intelligent and lucid contributors. not sure who you are though mate. in addition i think you should stfu about stuff that people have told you in real life.

I don't think so. She's a dullard, an ear-bender on a bad night out. I love her posts though, it's like watching the first round of X Factor.

Sick Boy
07-04-2008, 09:49 PM
I don't think so. She's a dullard, an ear-bender on a bad night out. I love her posts though, it's like watching the first round of X Factor.

*braces himself*

woops
07-04-2008, 10:00 PM
brown neon, when she gets back off that night out...

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 02:54 AM
God, I wish I'd made $500,000 off anything, I could use that right now.

It's funny that people think you'd *have* to be making up the things that have happened in my life. I guess it must seem crazy some of it--it does to me. I've never been comfortable with a lot of things about myself, having never fit in anywhere I've lived until Brooklyn. Then going into the workforce and having to find out firsthand just how fucked up certain industries were.

I know people who have actually *seen* me doing the drugs and certain things I've told you people about who post on Dissensus. Those who haven't I couldn't give two shits about, or what people believe.

What's more tedious--someone writing a post that you find boring, or you making a point of pointing out just how boring someone else's post was? It sure does make you seem like the life of the party when you do that, doesn't it?

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 03:02 AM
For example: has brown neon *ever* posted anything of value here? Not to my knowledge.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 03:19 AM
one of the good things about the internet is the blurring and dissolving of societal boundaries -- as we all sit alone, but together, in private, but in public, sharing thoughts and experiences.

if those people who share personal stories can reflect on them and speak thoughtfully about them, and maybe connect them to global issues, well THAT is what will distinguish this board from Yahoo Chats -- and not the absence of "personal stories" altogether.

a more open forum where people are NOT afraid to reveal more of their inner lives can only be that much more rewarding than this place already is. (it will never become Yahoo Chats because there are not many yahoos here -- insert joke about me being one here)

_________________________

how do you determine what is an OK personal story to tell here and what isn't? obviously you can't ban all "personal stories" because all the threads about walks in the park and bicycles would be deleted as well. so... what? no sex? no drugs? what about parties? because they often involve one or the other or most likely both.

it's all connected isn't it, our interest in music and clothes and parties and love and sex and psychoanalysis and theory and captitalism and addiction. and if you start censoring parts of it the slide is looking pretty slippery from here.

and I is gonna turn this whole post teal. just because i like it like that.

I think these are valid points, Zhao. I really honestly enjoy hearing about other peoples' experience in life (even if those include drugs and sex) and love to think of very particular human experiences in the context of the political or of theory or psychoanalysis. I've read some extremely interesting things here about others experiences that have really helped build my interest in certain thinkers or musicians. I like it when people post links and zshares of mp3s and whatever, but I also like it when people interact with each other on a more basic level.

I also think it's kind of sad to that people seem to think someone would share something like their lifelong struggle with drug addiction as a way of "oneupping" anyone or anything. Unfortunately, for me, drug addiction has been a very real, very gutwrenchingly painful and difficult part of my life, and yes, I guess I am always searching for others who might relate because, yes, it does help to feel like I'm not alone. It does. It helps to feel that someone else might understand what it's like to have manic depression that leads to things like drug addiction. These problems can be extremely isolating, even in the midst of hundreds of friends, of frequent parties, of workplace interaction.

As anyone who can relate to these problems *at all* will realize, it is imperative to try to keep a sense of humor about oneself and one's limitations. If I didn't poke fun at myself or make jokes or find the hilarity in certain ridiculous experiences I've had, I'd go crazy. I'm forced to confront these behaviors everyday, as any recovering addict will tell you--otherwise, you are doomed to repeat them.

The most important thing in life, in my opinion, is learning about yourself and trying to get better. I have been doing this for a long time. I am not a perfect person, I'm not an especially good person, I'm not someone to write home about, but I do love my friends and the people who have become my support system and, yes, I do often have to rely on their kindness and ability to listen and comfort me.

When ever last minute of your life is a struggle, you do what you can to survive. That is what motivates me ultimately when I post something silly (or something, that by the sounds of it must come off as "deranged" or "imaginary"??--yes, because everyone's firstline of fantasy is to imagine their lives a shitty fucking wreck at 25 with a hundred thousand dollars in debt and no one but their doctors to turn to for help. my fantasies look more like this--i wake up everyday and do the right thing, avoid self-destruction, and don't spend most of my time on suicidal ideation), or when I try to share how my own drug or sexual experiences have intersected with the things I've studied. There's nothing more human than trying to *relate* to others.

If I am guilty of something here, it is of writing some posts publicly that are really meant more for a few people here with whom I feel much closer than the rest and who I think actually understand me. If this is wildly offensive to anyone, I apologize. I never meant to offend anyone.

zhao
08-04-2008, 03:24 AM
i'm surprised the term "little shit" has not been yet used to address brown neon

Sick Boy
08-04-2008, 03:30 AM
i'm surprised the term "little shit" has not been yet used to address brown neon

The reason I'd only ever be inclined to call him this is because he left us all hanging about what sort of anecdote he was going tell his girlfriends parents would require a PG-13 word for "vagina":

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=7139

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 03:36 AM
i'm surprised the term "little shit" has not been yet used to address brown neon

Ha.

You know what's funny? Of nearly any American poster here, I know more other posters *in real life* through mutual friends or acquaintances than most others. If what I told people about my life--having family connections in the mafia (my mom's last name is Carbone, read up on the family, have a blast--several of the people have *met* my mom who know these mutual friends), having a hard drug problem for several years, etc (don't know what else sounds imaginary? the jobs i've had? worked for rockefeller university for several years, the princeton review, and also a place called medreviews--call them up and ask them for J3ssica Grav3s if you want to verify)--weren't true, then it seems like these people who know who I am in real life and know my friends well would say something, like "hey you're full of shit* or "are you kidding" or something to that effect. But they don't.

Neither do the people who have *been to my apartment* who post here who have seen me do things that I really shouldn't have done.

But whatever, I'm "imagining" these things.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 03:52 AM
why don't you give her a break? she's also one of the boards funniest, intelligent and lucid contributors. not sure who you are though mate. in addition i think you should stfu about stuff that people have told you in real life.

just to clear this up, bassnation, i have no idea who brown neon is and have never ever met whoever it is. thank god.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 03:56 AM
i don't think nomad has ever lied about her own life, how ever fanciful it may sound. (the drugs and the mob family and all that)

you know what? i just realized what i think it is--i think if you've never done psychedelic drugs, you don't realize how fucked up and crazy a person's drug/life experiences can be.

that's the only thing i can think of that accounts for it being hard to believe that an italian-american might have a family with mafia connections and a hard drug problem. it's so completely textbook and common that it's almost a cultural cliche in NY. but no, not to brits--to brits it's "imaginary"...

zhao
08-04-2008, 04:21 AM
thanks for addressing the teal post. i don't know why sometimes real stuff gets ignored. maybe because it's so on point that it's hard to reconcile with people's previous position?

I would love to hear Stelfox address the teal post.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 04:30 AM
Yeah, the thing is, I understand not wanting the board to be overrun by sex and drugs talk. I do think some threads have been unnecessarily derailed by sex and drug stories. But many have been derailed by other inanity as well.

I just think it's really really unfeeling and strange to act like it's wrong (or "psychotic" or however Stelfox put it) for people to bring up struggles with mental illness. Talk about reinforcing social stigma. There have been plenty of really cogent discussions of mental illness and the pharmaceutical industry in the West etc. etc. that I found really interesting.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 04:36 AM
I'm not sure I get you: American society as a whole is generally more censorious than British society, I'd have said, be it from a right-wing prospective ('family values', concern over 'blasphemy') or a left-wing one (political correctness). Of course that doesn't mean all Americans think that way, but it you're generalising about a whole country, I'd say you've got it the wrong way round...

I don't know, I've noticed similar splits in the past on Dissensus. I think the cultural difference has less to do with "free speech" issues and more to do with the fact that there's a very fundamental difference in the way British and American people approach casual social interactions. I think Americans are far less uptight, by which I mean I think (from what I've observed, I know this isn't scientific or particularly sociologically accurate or anything) they have far fewer unspoken or unwritten restrictions regarding what constitutes acceptable discussion topics between strangers or acquaintances. Also, in America, most people will always err on the side of "in my experience" when discussing something controversial or heated rather than pretending there's some sort of objective high horse one can perch on when it comes to matters of opinion.

zhao
08-04-2008, 04:40 AM
in America, most people will always err on the side of "in my experience" when discussing something controversial or heated rather than pretending there's some sort of objective high horse one can perch on when it comes to matters of opinion.

except for me :D (but then again i'm really Chinese not American)

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 04:46 AM
except for me :D (but then again i'm really Chinese not American)

you seem American enough to me! hehe.

i think there may be a small element of "free speech" idealism on my part--i just don't think the internet is the best place to go around getting upset about what others say or do. it's just not worth it. there are tons of posts on here i haven't liked, but i tend to respond to them and question them and try to start a dialogue rather than ask for them to be banned.

ripley
08-04-2008, 06:53 AM
I don't know, I've noticed similar splits in the past on Dissensus. I think the cultural difference has less to do with "free speech" issues and more to do with the fact that there's a very fundamental difference in the way British and American people approach casual social interactions. I think Americans are far less uptight, by which I mean I think (from what I've observed, I know this isn't scientific or particularly sociologically accurate or anything) they have far fewer unspoken or unwritten restrictions regarding what constitutes acceptable discussion topics between strangers or acquaintances. Also, in America, most people will always err on the side of "in my experience" when discussing something controversial or heated rather than pretending there's some sort of objective high horse one can perch on when it comes to matters of opinion.

My impression is that Americans are censorious and simultaneously hold a deep love of the concept of freedom of speech. That's "censorious" if you understand censorship in the broadest sense, not in the literal sense of government suppression of speech. I think it's generally an American trait to hate hate HATE explicit rules about what you can and can't say (religious fundies aside, I guess :( ), but to condone an awful lot of silencing done through private or social means.

On another note, I really don't get talking about speech online as if the internet is one place ("i can just go elsewhere"), or even if Dissensus is a huge place. If it is huge, then deleting a thread on Dissensus (one tiny part of the internet) surely isn't censorship, since you have the rest of the internet (or Dissensus) to get your racist ramblings or personal attacks or whatnot from.

If the internet is not one single site for speech, but instead a lot of clusters and networks that are privately supported and organized, then having mods who define the social rules of engagement is sensible enough. rules are going to develop based on how people treat each other, anyway. If nobody steps in, the whoever has the least compunction about being a jerk will define what's acceptable.

this is a recipe for "rule by the biggest asshole in the room" which (trust me on this, I'm in a law school and I know from experience) is not a good plan.

petergunn
08-04-2008, 09:19 AM
Yeah, the thing is, I understand not wanting the board to be overrun by sex and drugs talk. I do think some threads have been unnecessarily derailed by sex and drug stories. But many have been derailed by other inanity as well.

I just think it's really really unfeeling and strange to act like it's wrong (or "psychotic" or however Stelfox put it) for people to bring up struggles with mental illness. Talk about reinforcing social stigma. There have been plenty of really cogent discussions of mental illness and the pharmaceutical industry in the West etc. etc. that I found really interesting.

word...

my issue is the defense of the concept of censoring sex, drugs, personal issues threads is "THERE IS A WHOLE NOTHER INTERNET OUT THERE", which i find silly...

i think the point is, people like THIS forum and like to talk to people on here, no?

i mean, the thing i like about dissensus is that it does have a community feeling to it...

if j3ss was someone who came on here and for their first post wrote a lost weekend diary, i can understand people getting fed up...

but her (and zhao) contribute to a lot of threads (including tons of the post-modern philosophical ones that i never click on)...

which raises two points:

a) if a thread does not interest you, simply don't click on it...

b) if someone is obviously contributing to "the community", can not their posts stand as a whole?

and the idea that personal experiences have no place on here is silly... i mean, talking about going to a show, that's a personal experience... or saying, back when i was a teenager who only listened to metal, i hated the swans is a personal experience...

i think j3ss is kinda dead-on about how some british people find the some americans public openess tacky... that is certainly the angle all the trolls on here take... me, i like to keep my shit close to my sleeve, i just wonder why anyone could give a fuck about what anyone else posts on the internet?

if the problem with j3ss's posts are that they are self-obsessed, well so be it... but, i can tell you that she is def. not posting shit here for shock value or to push people's buttons...


ANYWAYS, i think this is funny, as other boards i post on have like 1 deleted thread a week... drama all the time... in general, people are well behaved on here...

stelfox
08-04-2008, 10:38 AM
yes... uncensored self-expression is a good thing, it's a concept at the base of most tolerant and democratic societies.
thank you to the defenders of the free world for pointing this out.
the flipside of this is that a considerate individual should also possess the ability to shut up occasionally.

mistersloane
08-04-2008, 10:42 AM
It's funny that people think you'd *have* to be making up the things that have happened in my life.

My true confession is that I really, genuinely think that nomad is actually David Bowie.

noel emits
08-04-2008, 12:15 PM
I posted right at the start of this thread, not in defense of the other one having been deleted but in a misguided effort to prevent the free-speech / whatever discussion that I'm sure many of us have seen numerous times on the net. Obviously people still have things to say so perhaps I was wrong to try and do so but the point was that ultimately this space exists on a server owned by someone else.

But this...

i come here to talk about music and to learn about other stuff that i know less about. i do not want to know about people's real or imagined drug histories, their real or imagined mental illnesses, their real or imagined confessions, their real or imagined sex lives or anything like that (real or imagined).
...is a bit silly, possibly offensive and really just says that you don't want people to post stuff that you are not interested in or that you are not interested in them as people. I think those discussions are valuable and relevant, but if sometimes they are not to you, so what. There is more than one forum here and music doesn't exist in a vacuum.

stelfox
08-04-2008, 12:35 PM
i don't really think that absolutely uncensored weirdness was what this board was intended for, that's all.
it was a relatively nice, remarkably unfucked-up corner of the internet for a quite a while, barely needed moderating, and maintains many of those characteristics to this day.
i don't think people should be encouraged to play out mental problems on the internet. they should, instead, be encouraged to seek out the appropriate help from legitimately qualified people, not self-appointed experts.
taking that thread down was 1) the best thing to so because it pissed off several long-standing contributors to the board 2) it had the potential to upset many more 3) it was actually quite a kind and responsible thing to do because, had the initial poster had been thinking clearly, i'm sure they wouldn't have started it in the first place.
i'd rather not see that kind of thing on many levels and i think it was dealt with responsibly.
this isn't really a free speech or censorship issue, it's an issue of discretion.
as for my not believing or respecting a lot of what gets said here by some of our more prolific posters, well, that's really my prerogative.
there's a weird mix of arrant bullshit and narcissistic self-obsession about it all and it's quite difficult to deal with, especially considering that it derails more worthwhile discourse and debate.
if there were any way to avoid it or read around it, i would, but it occurs on almost *every* thread and is pretty tiresome after a while.
anyway, i'm not saying any more about this.

IdleRich
08-04-2008, 01:41 PM
"...is a bit silly, possibly offensive and really just says that you don't want people to post stuff that you are not interested in or that you are not interested in them as people. I think those discussions are valuable and relevant, but if sometimes they are not to you, so what. There is more than one forum here and music doesn't exist in a vacuum."
Yeah, spot on. There are lots of things I like on dissensus and lots I don't but to start appealing to some mysterious idea of what the board is supposed to be for to suppress conversations you don't like (as opposed to those that are clearly racist or offensive in some other manner) seems a bit weird to me.

stelfox
08-04-2008, 03:16 PM
there's nothing weird about it. nothing cynical or scary. dissensus is not a metaphor for the wider world. it's a message board, it was set up to be a smart polite and relatively undramatic alternative to the other options. lately it's often looked like a total freakshow, which has nothing to do with free speech, oppressive methods of social control or censorship or anything else. personally, i'd say that a lot of things that have happened/been said lately are far weirder than not wanting to see that kind of stuff here. and, yeah, noel, you're right. there are some posters who i am not at all interested in as people because i couldn't trust anything they say. this is the point where i leave this argument alone. it's a modded board. someone did something pretty stupid. it got sorted out, end of matter.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 04:47 PM
Haha, Mistersloane. Don't I wish.

Where are the "freak show" parts exactly? I've been missing out on those.

Also, no one, not one person, has ever tried to use this message board to my knowledge to give "professional help" to anyone else. One time people told someone they should go to their doctor to possibly adjust medication dosage because that person asked for advice. Big deal!

If you're some old introverted, stay-in, straight-edge curmudgeon, Stelfox, who can't believe that someone living in Bushwick Brooklyn can't find smack and do it or have worked in medical publishing, maybe that's *your* problem.

Not a lot of other people seem to care about what I post. Why does it bother you so?

bassnation
08-04-2008, 04:48 PM
I don't think so. She's a dullard, an ear-bender on a bad night out. I love her posts though, it's like watching the first round of X Factor.

i'd rather spend time with someone who talks too much than a snidey little creep who likes to assassinate people from the sidelines when they feel they are weakened enough by attacks from others to get away with it. at least stelfox is completely straight forward, and unlike you, actually engaged in the board to the same extent as nomad.

i distrust people like that, and if i can't trust you i'm not interested in spending time talking to you or giving a shit what you think, end of.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 04:56 PM
My impression is that Americans are censorious and simultaneously hold a deep love of the concept of freedom of speech. That's "censorious" if you understand censorship in the broadest sense, not in the literal sense of government suppression of speech. I think it's generally an American trait to hate hate HATE explicit rules about what you can and can't say (religious fundies aside, I guess :( ), but to condone an awful lot of silencing done through private or social means.

On another note, I really don't get talking about speech online as if the internet is one place ("i can just go elsewhere"), or even if Dissensus is a huge place. If it is huge, then deleting a thread on Dissensus (one tiny part of the internet) surely isn't censorship, since you have the rest of the internet (or Dissensus) to get your racist ramblings or personal attacks or whatnot from.

If the internet is not one single site for speech, but instead a lot of clusters and networks that are privately supported and organized, then having mods who define the social rules of engagement is sensible enough. rules are going to develop based on how people treat each other, anyway. If nobody steps in, the whoever has the least compunction about being a jerk will define what's acceptable.

this is a recipe for "rule by the biggest asshole in the room" which (trust me on this, I'm in a law school and I know from experience) is not a good plan.

Yeah, I had a feeling someone must have posted some ethnic slur or other, and the deleting of that post was never what I meant to object to (I think there are quite a lot of sexist and racists posts on here that don't get the same treatment when maybe they could as well), but this snide insistence on going back to the idea that "longstanding members of the board" had some kind of huge problem with the way threads in the Misc section had played out is silly.

Stelfox has hated me ever since I made fun of music journalists once, and it's been all downhill from there. Personal vendettas on the internet are *so lame*...

john eden
08-04-2008, 04:57 PM
If people don't stop the personal abuse, I will be dishing out some temporary bans very soon.

Without personalising things, it does seem that some posters here are magnetically attracted to having a ruck with others, or to threads which are basically about that.

All this is becoming very insular - a rubbish thread whining about another rubbish thread. Tiny beefs and personality clashes being magnified out of all proportion and then repeated, extended, intensified.

It is petty and despite the well-meaning "oh well don't read it then" posts, it is undeniably changing the nature of the board, for me at least.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 04:59 PM
It is petty

agreed

swears
08-04-2008, 05:00 PM
To be fair, I think I have made some miserable, self-obsessed posts that I kind of regret. But I've never made known any personal info or gone into too much detail. What I think I was angling for was a proper discussion on topics like big pharma/brain chemistry/depression and creativity in general/anti-depressants as social control/whatevs... But it all got a bit "Whhaaa, I can't get a g/f!"

So... yeah.

john eden
08-04-2008, 05:01 PM
Yeah, I had a feeling someone must have posted some ethnic slur or other, and the deleting of that post was never what I meant to object to (I think there are quite a lot of sexist and racists posts on here that don't get the same treatment when maybe they could as well), but this snide insistence on going back to the idea that "longstanding members of the board" had some kind of huge problem with the way threads in the Misc section had played out is silly.

Stelfox has hated me ever since I made fun of music journalists once, and it's been all downhill from there. Personal vendettas on the internet are *so lame*...

It seems to me that you mention Stelfox at least as much as he mentions you, nomadologist.

If you see any racist or sexist posts then please report them to the moderators.

STN
08-04-2008, 05:02 PM
I don't really see what's wrong about personal information. I don't especially want to be identified, which is why I've made such a cloak-swishing enigma of myself but if other people want to talk about themselves/their experiences I think that's fine though granted, I am a nosey bastard.

nomadologist
08-04-2008, 05:03 PM
In this thread, where I've been personally attacked by him and blamed for "ruining" Dissensus or something.

Don't worry, you don't have to ban me, I'd rather do anything than continue to languish among the morons.

Have fun!

john eden
08-04-2008, 05:06 PM
I think it would be very difficult to sustain an online community where nobody ever divulged any personal information, but there is some distance between that and becoming a soap opera.

Where the line is drawn is far from straightforward, however.

The forum should, in my view, be self-regulating in the main and it is fair enough if posters make their views known about the direction they think it is heading in.

Having said that what I would like even more would be more and better threads which are actually discussing things and are not derailed.

One thing I might start doing is splitting threads again, which is a bit of a pain in the arse to administer, but might help keep things focussed?

trouc
08-04-2008, 05:07 PM
Stupidest thread on this site ever?

Stelfox: learn to roll your eyes and move on. Nomad: no reason to take your toys home, plenty of people here, myself included, enjoy your posts.

john eden
08-04-2008, 05:09 PM
In this thread, where I've been personally attacked by him and blamed for "ruining" Dissensus or something.

Don't worry, you don't have to ban me, I'd rather do anything than continue to languish among the morons.

Have fun!

You both seem to be giving as good as you get. I haven't intervened for that reason. Neither of you has reported any posts.

I haven't threatened to temporarily ban any specific individuals, have I? :)

martin
08-04-2008, 05:18 PM
I think you'll all find Stelfox was referring to me,he can't believe I've soiled myself with Hindu Sex Gods on Vitamin C - his loss.


I think it would be very difficult to

Oh, why don't you ZIP IT you Wiccan goat? You're like a bee buzzing in a jar. You weren't even man enough to ban Padraig on your own, you had to call Nomos at 4am for help!

swears
08-04-2008, 05:23 PM
Padraig/HMLT rooled, tho!

stelfox
08-04-2008, 05:26 PM
Stelfox has hated me ever since I made fun of music journalists once, and it's been all downhill from there. Personal vendettas on the internet are *so lame*...

oh dear, it has absolutely nothing to do with that. i don't hate anyone, particularly not anyone who i've never met. i absolutely believe it possible to buy heroin anywhere on earth. most people are just good enough to keep it relatively quiet, that's all.
it's the constant derailment of otherwise perfectly ok discussions that's going on, the fact that people don't seem to read that which has gone before in a thread before throwing in expert opinions that's the problem.
the personal stuff revealed here is really up to the individual poster, i just think it's all going a bit bonkers lately.
god, i'm pretty transparent here, myself. people know where i live, what i do, i post under my own name. i guess i am just boring, really...
agreed that this is the stupidest thread ever, especially considering that the person with the most to say about it never read the thread that initially caused it in the first place! the thread was full of racism, someone started it when they'd probably have been better off sitting down and having a cup of tea. it was commented upon, agreed upon, deleted and that''s really the end of the story. i've also not mentioned anyone by name once.

martin
08-04-2008, 05:29 PM
Padraig/HMLT rooled, tho!

Padraig was the voice of the contradictory subconscious, the internal scream that refused to be drowned out by antiquated notions of 'the self' - banning him from Dissensus was like performing a self-lobotomy

swears
08-04-2008, 05:29 PM
I don't really see what's wrong about personal information. I don't especially want to be identified, which is why I've made such a cloak-swishing enigma of myself but if other people want to talk about themselves/their experiences I think that's fine though granted, I am a nosey bastard.

Yeah, obvs people are promoting projects/meeting up/know each other IRL, and that's cool. But I don't think I'd ever post my name or photo to a public board. Just paranoid that way. Don't want people googling my name, even have a misspelt surname on Facebook...

m99188868
08-04-2008, 06:40 PM
Yeah, obvs people are promoting projects/meeting up/know each other IRL, and that's cool. But I don't think I'd ever post my name or photo to a public board. Just paranoid that way. Don't want people googling my name, even have a misspelt surname on Facebook...

I agree. Nomadologist really should edit out her name. I'm no whizzkid, but it can't be that hard to link a name to smack stories or full address and curriculum. Sharing personal information can be nice, as long as you know who you're sharing with.

That said, I really hope this dispute ends here.

mr_bottom
08-04-2008, 07:09 PM
hi everybody!

so wot's this thread all about then? i haven't got time to read through it all.

nomos
08-04-2008, 07:40 PM
so wot's this thread all about then? i haven't got time to read through it all.
it's the same thread you've been posting to as brown neon. let me know if you need a hand deleting the extra account.

Guybrush
08-04-2008, 07:55 PM
Great thread peeps!


Padraig was the voice of the contradictory subconscious, the internal scream that refused to be drowned out by antiquated notions of 'the self' - banning him from Dissensus was like performing a self-lobotomy

Padraig/HMLT was/is a man of great intelligence and integrity, and I sorely regret his departure.

[^^^ Sincerely.]

Mr. Tea
08-04-2008, 08:05 PM
Padraig/HMLT rooled, tho!

Your 'D' key on the blink, swears?

IdleRich
08-04-2008, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by mr_bottom
so wot's this thread all about then? i haven't got time to read through it all.

it's the same thread you've been posting to as brown neon. let me know if you need a hand deleting the extra account.
I had a feeling that I recognised that style...

poetix
08-04-2008, 11:05 PM
Threads about banned threads or persons, whether on message boards or in email lists, are invariably awful.

Everyone talks about what their ideal of public internet discourse is, and either explicitly or implicitly fingers at least one other person as disruptive / obnoxious / not-really-getting-it and therefore - <em>naming no names, you know who you are</em> - preventing this ideal from being realized.

The vortex of paranoia and recrimination swirls around a bit, everybody gets something off their chest, people with no particularly compelling reason to do so storm off in various degrees of dudgeon, and a few days later everyone's forgotten it ever happened...until the next time.

It's probably a necessary process, or something.

bassnation
09-04-2008, 12:08 AM
If people don't stop the personal abuse, I will be dishing out some temporary bans very soon.

alright john, the voice of reason, you are right. going a bit too far, being trolled too obviously which is quite embaressing for a reformed troll like me. thing is, probably two of my favourite posters here are nomad and stelfox, for quite different reasons, so this thread is quite confusing for me lol. i'm in the tony blair not take a side kind of corner (thats the first and last time i'm comparing myself to blair). i do think, however, this is a storm in a teacup which back in the days of the (unmoderated) uk-dance forum would have ended with someone flouncing out theatrically only to return suitably chastened and with their proverbial tail between their legs a few later. can't this bunch of arse thread be locked as a warning to all potential confessionees?

john eden
09-04-2008, 07:31 AM
I did think about locking this thread, but then somebody would be bound to start another one moaning about the abuse of their human rights...

mr_bottom
09-04-2008, 07:54 AM
I had a feeling that I recognised that style...

ha! let me know when you wanna play squash mofo

john eden
09-04-2008, 10:01 AM
I never said personal confessions were ok, just that conveying personal information is an integral part of an online community.

I also said that where to draw the line between the two is subjective.

It is the thread and surrounding discussions which have manifested pettiness in many posters, probably including me. Some people seem to be able to ignore, but many do not.

stelfox
09-04-2008, 11:11 AM
well, i never wanted anyone to leave dissensus as a result of this.
i also think it's absolutely unecessary.
all i did was publicly state that one thread was very ill advised, that it didn't fit with the tone of dissensus, that it was offensive and should probably be binned for the sake of all concerned — not least the person who started it — and note a general trend of this place getting a bit weird and uncomfortable lately.
(re the banning issue: that wasn't entirely serious. i actually don't think padrag should have been banned anyway.)
the thread's deletion was obviously agreed upon by the moderators and happened with comparatively little fuss.
then, a day after it's all blown over, i read this thread and see myself being blamed for the erosion of civil liberties, accused of sending whining private messages to moderators, which did not happen, and generally being a pompous ass — all by someone who wasn't involved in the original thread, hadn't read it and really had no idea what the issue behind its deletion was in the first place.
i have no problem with people talking about themselves, i am interested in what other people have to say (i wouldn't come here, otherwise), i just think that some discretion is advisable, both for the sake of the person revealing personal details and the for other members of the board.
thinking before making comments is a good thing, too. 1) you won't say something you might end up regretting, and 2) it proves that you're actually taking account of what other people have to say, too.
none of this is unreasonable. it just makes sense.
i'm not apologising for any of the observations i've made, but i will say that this is all a bit silly and it's a shame that it had to turn out like this.

Mr. Tea
09-04-2008, 12:46 PM
This could all have been avoided if it had been clear that Jaie was 'joking' when he made those comments about Iraqis and Africans. The trouble is that irony and sarcasm are often very difficult to pick up on in print. On a messageboard I used to frequent we got round this by the use of 'sarcastitalics', as in: I think that's a great idea. No, really.

Jaie Miller
09-04-2008, 01:19 PM
Stupidest thread on this site ever?

Stelfox: learn to roll your eyes and move on. Nomad: no reason to take your toys home, plenty of people here, myself included, enjoy your posts.

I have one thing to say about that...

http://stelfox.justgotowned.com

zhao
09-04-2008, 01:24 PM
I have one thing to say about that...

http://stelfox.justgotowned.com

oh man...

zhao
09-04-2008, 01:28 PM
the truth is i like both of them. stelf may be a tad stuffy, nomad may be a tad stubborn and hot headed, but they both are good humans and they both say interesting stuff.

i will ask her to come back in a few days we'll see.

stelfox
09-04-2008, 02:30 PM
I have one thing to say about that...

http://stelfox.justgotowned.com

Jaie, really, take it somewhere else. In case you've forgotten it's that kind of stupid shit that started this whole thing in the first place.

Jaie Miller
09-04-2008, 02:53 PM
-are we on?! are we good?! what, now?! hold on...ready?! yup. ok










-shut up stelfox.

john eden
09-04-2008, 03:01 PM
You are skating on thin ice Jaie.

Play nice.

Sick Boy
09-04-2008, 03:42 PM
Da war a get juicy

zhao
09-04-2008, 05:18 PM
time for sickboy to STFU

Sick Boy
09-04-2008, 05:31 PM
time for sickboy to STFU

Oh no, not another one. Looks like everyone will be banned or have resigned by the end of the day at this rate.

mr_bottom
09-04-2008, 05:40 PM
Oh no, not another one. Looks like everyone will be banned or have resigned by the end of the day at this rate.

yeah, fuck off everybody.

bassnation
10-04-2008, 02:33 AM
yeah, fuck off everybody.

is that you, tim? ha ha.

Yoghurt Sothoth
10-04-2008, 12:25 PM
You are skating on thin ice Jaie.

Play nice.

SANCTIMONIOUS MORTAL! THE OLD ONES DISAPPROVE

tom pr
10-04-2008, 01:27 PM
SANCTIMONIOUS MORTAL! THE OLD ONES DISAPPROVE
i really do love yoghurt sothoth.

stelfox
10-04-2008, 01:40 PM
he is by far the best poster on this board

zhao
10-04-2008, 01:45 PM
may i just point out here that it was none other than i, many, many moons ago, who initially professed a true love of Yoghurt.

Mr. Tea
10-04-2008, 02:40 PM
he is by far the best poster on this board

Only since Toccowich seems have disappeared!