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View Full Version : teachers to be thought police, err counter terrorism



matt b
08-10-2008, 11:13 AM
the most cnutish idea i've heard in a while:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7656607.stm

and the language used pisses me off- 'a sophisticated, security led toolkit' ffs.

the government are concerned about young people having 'radical ideas'. rather than address their concerns (or even address them full stop), they want to put a stop to 'radical ideas'

in theory kids as young as 5 could be shopped if they are deemed 'radical'

on Today this morning, anthony glees (professor of security or somesuch at university of buckinghamshire) complained that it didn't go far enough, and that it failed to make a statement about 'big ben british values' thus allowing identity to stem from a number of sources.

therefore, he complains, this 'toolkit' allows religion-read islam- to remain a legitimate source of identity, which "ultimately presents us with a security risk"

wtf????

he also complained it focused too much on ideas such as conflict resolution. fuck that- FIGHT!

matt b
08-10-2008, 11:15 AM
that someone can say 'big ben british values' with a straight face had me seething this morning

jenks
08-10-2008, 12:43 PM
i have emailed my department and expect a list of names on my desk by home time

If not I will be forced to make a list of names of my department for refusing to counter terrorism in my school by denouncing these vipers in our midst.

Having just finished a biog on Stalin, I cannot help but see where this could all lead

matt b
08-10-2008, 01:02 PM
"At the end of the conference, a tribute to Comrade Stalin was called for. Of course, everyone leapt to his feet.

However, who would dare to be the first to stop – after all, NKVD men were in the hall waiting to see who quit first. And in that obscure hall, unknown to the Leader, the applause went on – 6, 7, 8 minutes! They couldn’t stop now till they collapsed of heart attacks!

Aware of the falsity of the situation, after 11 minutes, the director of the paper factory sat down in his seat.

And, oh, a miracle took place! Everyone else stopped dead and sat down.

That, however, was how they found who the independent people were. And that was how they set about eliminating them. They easily pasted 10 years in a labour camp on him."

Solzhenitsyn, writing about a Communist Party meeting in 1938.

john eden
08-10-2008, 01:49 PM
I like the way they include reference to the threat from the far right as well, presumably as a pre-emptive strike against liberals who will call them racist.

FFS.

Surely the best way to counter this is to go all Daily Mail? As we know all teachers in this country are harbingers of PC communist revolutionary radical ideas, so can YOU trust them to discuss TERRORISM with YOUR CHILDREN?

Ulrike Meinoff's mother was a teacher after all!

matt b
08-10-2008, 01:51 PM
Surely the best way to counter this is to go all Daily Mail? As we know all teachers in this country are harbingers of PC communist revolutionary radical ideas, so can YOU trust them to discuss TERRORISM with YOUR CHILDREN?

well, i did call for revolution and the assasination of the queen at about 9.30 this morning, so the daily mail are quite right.

john eden
08-10-2008, 01:52 PM
well, i did call for revolution and the assasination of the queen at about 9.30 this morning, so the daily mail are quite right.

Well you can't get more British than that, surely?

matt b
08-10-2008, 01:58 PM
Well you can't get more British than that, surely?

too true.

i think i reeled back afterwards and conceded that moving all of the royal family to a council estate in barnsley might be acceptable, if a little unfair on barnsley

Mr. Tea
08-10-2008, 02:15 PM
Ulrike Meinoff's mother was a teacher after all!

And Osama bin Laden went to school, too - this is all starting to add up!

Classic piece of New Labour doublespeak here:



"This is not about asking teachers to be monitors and to be doing surveillance, that's not their job.

"We don't want teachers to act as spies..."



"But if something concerns them, we want them to know who to turn to for help," he said.

"...but we're going to help teachers act as spies, if they need to."

matt b
08-10-2008, 02:40 PM
"By bringing things into the open, by discussing these sorts of things in school, we're actually improving the safety of all our children...School staff believe in having reasoned discussions with pupils"


as long as you only discuss the right ideas and have the right ideas, otherwise its detention centre for you

ripley
08-10-2008, 05:31 PM
what a revoltin' development

in the US, teachers (at least the state employed ones) are sometimes pressured to speculate/inform on the immigration status of their pupils, wouldn't be surprised if this is folded into those requests. Simply vile.

matt b
08-10-2008, 06:40 PM
what a revoltin' development

in the US, teachers (at least the state employed ones) are sometimes pressured to speculate/inform on the immigration status of their pupils, wouldn't be surprised if this is folded into those requests. Simply vile.

i can't see it working in practice, unless the tories succeed in getting loads of ex-soldiers into the classroom (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4845777.ece). i can see them getting on really well with the liberal fops generally found in staff rooms. ;)

Mr. Tea
08-10-2008, 09:15 PM
Thing is, though, what sort of schools are kids that are likely to be exposed to the kind of extremist propaganda this 'toolkit' is meant to combat going to be attending? I very much doubt ordinary mixed state comps are going to be too much of a problem - I like to think the would-be junior jihadi at such a school would be rapidly deradicalised by the moderating influence of constant piss-takery from his peers. So that leaves 'faith schools', which were promoted in no small way by...Tony Blair!

ripley
08-10-2008, 11:02 PM
i can't see it working in practice, unless the tories succeed in getting loads of ex-soldiers into the classroom (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4845777.ece). i can see them getting on really well with the liberal fops generally found in staff rooms. ;)

At the college level, in the US, you do have the fools like Jonah Goldberg and David Horowitz for whom "academic freedom" means "affirmative action for unqualified conservative ideologues" .. but anyway they are apparently genuinely concerned with liberal bias in the classroom. my favorite take on that here (http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/19/the-goldberg-variations/) Anyway, seems like they'd love this crap.

STN
09-10-2008, 07:49 AM
David Horowitz.

funnily enough this knobhead keeps personally emailing one of my mates for fiscal help against the reds, we've wondered who he is for ages but thought he was such a prick no one could bear to google him.

Christ knows how he got Jon's email; from some sinister leftist organization no doubt.

john eden
10-10-2008, 03:06 PM
I'm now really into the idea of Big Ben British Values and am using it in the title of a talk I am doing. :cool:

Mr. Tea
10-10-2008, 03:18 PM
'Big Ben' would be a great name for a porn star. His trademark would be wearing a bowler hat while on the job and exclaiming "I say!" at the crucial moment.

Slothrop
20-10-2008, 12:58 AM
At the college level, in the US, you do have the fools like Jonah Goldberg and David Horowitz for whom "academic freedom" means "affirmative action for unqualified conservative ideologues" .. but anyway they are apparently genuinely concerned with liberal bias in the classroom. my favorite take on that here (http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/19/the-goldberg-variations/) Anyway, seems like they'd love this crap.
When I was lecturing, I was totally confused as to whether I was supposed to be indoctrinating my students with capitalism because I was supporting the capitalist hegemony or communism because I was part of the liberal elite. I'm surprised that we got any maths done at all tbh.

Edit: liberal bias in education is at least a bit less obviously stupid an idea than liberal bias in the media, though, which is up there with being anti-stem cell research but pro-war in terms of aspects of conservatism I actually can't make logical sense out of... but yes, of course, the vast multinational media conglomerates are actually all dedicated to pumping out commie propoganda, that makes perfect sense.

nomadthethird
20-10-2008, 04:54 AM
At the college level, in the US, you do have the fools like Jonah Goldberg and David Horowitz for whom "academic freedom" means "affirmative action for unqualified conservative ideologues" .. but anyway they are apparently genuinely concerned with liberal bias in the classroom. my favorite take on that here (http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/19/the-goldberg-variations/) Anyway, seems like they'd love this crap.

Have you seen the ads for that new documentary with Ben Stein in it called Expelled? It's one of those nonsense persecution complex "exposes" about how (gasp) creationism-cum-intelligent design theory isn't considered a topic that is relevant to the study of science in that haven of Conspiratorial Liberal Elitism, the academy.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=six-things-ben-stein-doesnt-want-you-to-know

Mr. Tea
20-10-2008, 02:05 PM
Have you seen the ads for that new documentary with Ben Stein in it called Expelled? It's one of those nonsense persecution complex "exposes" about how (gasp) creationism-cum-intelligent design theory isn't considered a topic that is relevant to the study of science in that haven of Conspiratorial Liberal Elitism, the academy.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=six-things-ben-stein-doesnt-want-you-to-know

A lot of daft bollocks goes on in education in Britain, but I'm so glad we at least don't have to put to with this^^. Not yet, at any rate.

vimothy
20-10-2008, 02:17 PM
A lot of daft bollocks goes on in education in Britain

Brain Gym (http://www.learning-solutions.co.uk/brain_gym.php)!

Mr. Tea
20-10-2008, 02:21 PM
For some reason, I was thinking specifically of the school-level history textbook featuring Brunel on the front cover, with his cigar airbushed out.

http://www.igreens.org.uk/brunel_bowdlerised.htm

matt b
20-10-2008, 02:32 PM
For some reason, I was thinking specifically of the school-level history textbook featuring Brunel on the front cover, with his cigar airbushed out.

http://www.igreens.org.uk/brunel_bowdlerised.htm

and the colour of the chains in the background have been modified. how are the kids supposed to learn?????

Mr. Tea
20-10-2008, 02:35 PM
and the colour of the chains in the background have been modified. how are the kids supposed to learn?????

You have to agree though, it's pretty fucking daft. As if some kid's going to start smoking because of a long-dead Victorian engineer.

matt b
20-10-2008, 02:39 PM
You have to agree though, it's pretty fucking daft. As if some kid's going to start smoking because of a long-dead Victorian engineer.

maybe some idiot would see brunel as a role model and take to smoking and the wearing of top hats. clarkson likes him and he smokes. FACT!

matt b
20-10-2008, 02:43 PM
if that's the worst case of daft bollocks, then education is in rude health.
they might even get rid of pointless tests next

Mr. Tea
20-10-2008, 03:15 PM
OK, so on a scale of daftness, it doesn't rank that high in the grand scheme of things - it just struck me as the sort of thing that has turned political correctness from what was originally a pretty good idea, almost a sort of moral common sense, into the byword for hysterically pedantic doublethink it's become today.

Scrapping the SATs is great, though.

Edit: can't see Clarkson really carrying off the top hat look, fortunately.

matt b
20-10-2008, 03:33 PM
it just struck me as the sort of thing that has turned political correctness from what was originally a pretty good idea, almost a sort of moral common sense, into the byword for hysterically pedantic doublethink it's become today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21e7po1Sro&feature=related

matt b
20-10-2008, 03:58 PM
I'm now really into the idea of Big Ben British Values and am using it in the title of a talk I am doing. :cool:

good man! this is vital to our future!
i've had a quick look around to find out the sort of values that big ben (the british one) likes, according to prof glees.

imprisonment without trial is one:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/anthony-glees-internment-should-be-a-policy-option-420602.html

mixed_biscuits
20-10-2008, 04:16 PM
Brain Gym

On my PGCE we were taken to a school that claimed to have built its entire curriculum around this. A few minutes spent independently questioning the pupils revealed that this was an utter fabrication.

btw brain-gym wise, there has been an interesting recent development, with claims that training working memory leads to more general improvements, both in memory and reasoning - giving us a brain gym that may actually work:

http://www.iapsych.com/articles/jaeggi2008.pdf

I don't think scrapping the SATs was a good idea - Years 7 to 9 felt utterly aimless to me when I was at school (pre-SATs). Better that Year 9 SATs are upgraded to near the status of GCSEs and AS-Levels are scrapped (or that GCSEs are brought forward a year and A-Levels expanded). Teacher assessment is too unreliable - there need to be other measures in place (and these measures need to be public, for the purposes of accountability).

Mr. Tea
20-10-2008, 04:35 PM
good man! this is vital to our future!
i've had a quick look around to find out the sort of values that big ben (the british one) likes, according to prof glees.

imprisonment without trial is one:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/anthony-glees-internment-should-be-a-policy-option-420602.html

Lol, is it coincidence that Glees is at Brunel University?

matt b
22-10-2008, 02:30 PM
glees also wants some sort of religious fashion police:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/anthony-glees-internment-should-be-a-policy-option-420602.html

big ben british values!

IdleRich
22-10-2008, 02:54 PM
Wow, that's completely nuts. Is he basically saying that we should lock up anyone who is Iraqi or Afghan because we are at war with them? Or in other words, they had the temerity to be from a country the UK happened to attack.


"Forty per cent of British Muslims say they want to live under sharia law. That is unacceptable. They should go to a country with sharia law."
Yeah, it's totally unacceptable to want something to be different from how it is.

vimothy
22-10-2008, 02:56 PM
crucial moment

Just been on the h/c thread and I have to say, this sounds like a good name for a sXe band.

matt b
22-10-2008, 03:16 PM
Yeah, it's totally unacceptable to want something to be different from how it is.

Big Ben British Values!