lets find a dissensus best hardcore record list

The Fix-At the Speed of Twisted Thought
Cro Mags-Age of Quarrel
SS Decontrol-The Kids Will Have their Say
Breakdown-Demos 88/89
Deep Wound-S/T
Blight-Dream is Dead


And outside the US:

Gauze-Equalizing Distort
Gudon-Flexi
Confuse-All Punks Spending Loud Night
Terveet Kadet-I
Kaaos/Cadgers-Split
Discharge-Why?
Anti-Cimex-Raped Ass
Amebix-Rise

Obviously veered a bit far there so I'll stop.

dead kennedys - frankenchrist

thats the wrong hardcore....

luka said:

thats the wrong hardcore....

Click to expand...

actually, it's the original hardcore...

Rather boring list from me, I'm not massive on hardcore:

Deep Wound - S/T
Black Flag - S/T
Adolescents - S/T
Germs - MIA
Minor Threat - Out of Step EP
Bad Brains - the one with lightning on the cover
Misfits - Walk Among Us

Very honourable not-quite-hardcore mentions to:

Vomit Pigs, Huns, The Lewd, The Dicks, Lungfish, The Gears

it'd be actually fun to hear a mix made up of the Punk Hardcore and Dance Hardcore It'd be a bit hard to pull that one off though...

I really like

Minor Threat - Out Of Step
Dead Kennedys - Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables


out of that list myself...

didn't know The Misfits qualified as hardcore though... I thought they were a fair bit earlier than the whole DC Hardcore scene kicked off.

I don't know but I really like the Misfits - Static Age the best out of the original line up's catalog.

I know fuck all about punk/hardcore but I do enjoy "Police Story" by Blag Flag.

It's not accepted at all by most people actually involved in hardcore. Just a handful of embittered journalists and elitist teenagers. Also, I think the cut-off point used was 86, cause that's when it basically fragmented into NYHC/emo/crossover/etc. I think with American Hardcore it was mainly a matter of convenience.

I think urbanite might be right and the Misfits aren't really hardcore, but then they are so fucking wicked they'd appear in a list of my favourite reggae records...

Flipper
Middle Class - Love is a Tool

Newer stuff: The Prowl, The Geeks, Cruel Hand.

I prefer the mid to late 80s stuff when hardcore bands (and hardcore influenced bands) started diversifying their sound. Black Flag's 'My War', Melvins, early Dinosaur Jr, Minutemen, Meat Puppets, Sonic Youth. That was a really great period for rock music. Fuck it, probably the last great period in rock music.

Yeah, all that weird SST stuff is incredible. You ever heard Saccharine Trust? "Paganicons" and "We Became Snakes" are essential. Also, later, weirdo SST stuff like Flag's "Proccess of Weeding Out", Divine Horsemen, Universal Congress Of..., First two Gone records...So good when Ginn let his Deadhead roots flourish.

bassbeyondreason said:

Yeah, all that weird SST stuff is incredible. You ever heard Saccharine Trust? "Paganicons" and "We Became Snakes" are essential. Also, later, weirdo SST stuff like Flag's "Proccess of Weeding Out", Divine Horsemen, Universal Congress Of..., First two Gone records...So good when Ginn let his Deadhead roots flourish.

Click to expand...

funny, i Dled that Saccharine Trust LP ("paganicons") today... i have been looking for that record for at least 10 years and i guess i may never find it at a decent price... nothing on there is as good as "a human certaintity", the song i heard by them way back when on "the blasting concept" compilation of early SST stuff... i have a 2 LP live comp by ST called "past lives" that is at turns great and terrible... those guys could really fucking play...

just read "Enter Naomi: SST and all That" by Joe Carducci... his look back at the SST era using the life of photographer Naomi Petersen as a framing device... i knew her name from photo credits on old SST stuff, but nothing about her... anyways, there are annectdotes for days about Greg Ginn, Pettibon, Mike Watt, Rollins, Jack Brewer, Mugger, Spot, and everyone involved in the SST thing, shining a light on the female presence that gets ignored (people like Greg Ginn's punk rock girlfried Medea, who wrote the lyrics to "Room 13" by Black Flag, MY FAVORITE SONG FROM THE DAMAMGED LP)

re: greg ginn and the Dead... yeah, the evil hippie undercurrent ran thru Flag (Carducci touches upon this, tracing the history of Hermosa Beach counterculture... bohemian surfers...)... i LOVE "the process of weeding out" and some Gone stuff is good, but those guys went overboard with that stuff... that October Faction record SUCKS!

re: the "cutoff date" for H/C... there isn't one, there's just Old School, NEw School, etc... the Cro-Mags are kinda like the first Second Wave NYHC band... that first Cro-Mags record is so fucking ill, but it's different from Kraut, or Urban Waste (that 7" is AMAZING)... and then you have bands like Underdog, Leeway, Sick of it all. 25 ta life (man, did they suck), whatever... i mean, there is a direct chain of HC... but to me, there is a magic to the 80-86 stuff that is missing from everything after...the template was set... so, i don't think that an Eye for an Eye record from 1990 is any better than Sam Black Church record from 94, but that Jerry's Kids are WAY better than both of 'em...

the thing is with hardcore after 86 is most of the smart kids had left the room... big tatooed dum guys need music too, but judged purely as MUSIC, some of it is absolute shit..

Sherbourne's list is OK, but like for the "direction" of Post-Hardcore, i would have put Siege on my list, not Rites of Spring (shit, i would have put 9353 on there instead of Rites of Spring)... i mean, bands like Lungfish or the Laughing Hyenas or the Jesus Lizard are all great, but they're not hardcore... that whole post-rock AmRep/Touch and Go late 80's early 90's sound is indeed THE LAST GREAT MOVEMENT IN ROCK, and a lotta those guys came up in HC bands, but that stuff is NOT hardcore...

i do agree with Sherbourne on:

Germs- GI
def the Bad Brains ROIR tape
Negative Approach- first EP (he is dead on w/ the Oi influences on this record and the way in influenced NYHC)
Black Flag- Damaged (for me still the prototype for what INTENSITY means in loud music)
Suicidal Tendencies- S/t kinda a ridiculous record, like if a ZZ Top cover band was locked in a room with "Damaged" and not allowed to leave... the angst is mixed with beach party vibes...

i'd add:

SSD- Get it Away - (a HUGE influence on the modern metal/mosh sound that dominated HC from the early 90's onward)

Agnostic Front- Victim in Pain EP

Angry Samoans- Back from Samoa (if you're going to have one of those lists that puts the Dead Kennedys and the Germs as H/C bands, you have to them)

OH AND "BIKINI KILL" are NOT HARDCORE... they are fun, but their whole bedroom sloppiness vibe is what makes them not hardcore, i mean they are art kids... if you wanna put a girl band on the list, put Frightwig!!!!!!



on the Saccharine Trust weird vibe, the bands the messed with the rules, yeah those ARE the most interesting...

Saccharine Trust
Kilslug
Flipper
No Trend
100 Flowers
TSOL (just for the way they inexplicably mixed HC w/ goth)
Virus (doomy art damaged NYHC on Rat Cage records... there was a junk store in Brooklyn that used to have about 300 copies of this... i bought about 10 and have 2-3 left...)
Meat Puppets (that first LP is just fucking bizarre)
The Proletariat


also working on a mix tape project involving the begining of the METAL CROSSOVER era... SO MANY bands went metal around 84... SSD certainly, DY as well... by 87, they were all straight metal bands (another reason 86 is THE DEATH YEAR of HC)...

Corrision of Conformity
DRI ("Dealing With It" really combined HC with the underground metal thing)
Siege (the begining of grindcore)
psycho
wasted youth (went total speed metal by 87)
gang green (their later stuff on roadrunner blows, but the "another wasted night" LP is such great HC with a metal tinge)
the accused
post-mortem

Excellent post, but I have to disagree about October Faction (it has a wonderful retarded charm) and Rites of Spring (one of my favourite records ever, and definitely important to the evolution (out of?) HC). Also, I think 86 only works as a date if you only focus on USHC. Japan kept it going well into the 90s, and pretty much up until the present day (latest Gauze record is insane). And of course, even in the US it kept mutating into stuff like Powerviolence, and then worldwide there's crust, d-beat etc. All very much an extension of the intensity of early HC (with metal influence in the case of crust, but still.)

Anyway, another LP that's generally pretty overlooked is Husker Du-Land Speed Record, obviously because of their later work, but this might be one of my favourite early hardcore records, ultra-fast Ornette Coleman-influenced hardcore.

bassbeyondreason said:

Excellent post, but I have to disagree about October Faction (it has a wonderful retarded charm) and Rites of Spring (one of my favourite records ever, and definitely important to the evolution (out of?) HC). Also, I think 86 only works as a date if you only focus on USHC. Japan kept it going well into the 90s, and pretty much up until the present day (latest Gauze record is insane). And of course, even in the US it kept mutating into stuff like Powerviolence, and then worldwide there's crust, d-beat etc. All very much an extension of the intensity of early HC (with metal influence in the case of crust, but still.)

Anyway, another LP that's generally pretty overlooked is Husker Du-Land Speed Record, obviously because of their later work, but this might be one of my favourite early hardcore records, ultra-fast Ornette Coleman-influenced hardcore.

Click to expand...

i thought Sherbourne should have used "Land Speed Record" rather than Zen Arcade as LSR is totally radical and odd there, while still being HC...

one can draw a hardcore family tree leading from power violence to the most cornball mainstream rap metal... very few heavy music from the mid 80's on is not informed or influenced by hardcore in some way...

i have been listening alot lately to the UK punk bands of the late 70's and early 80's that inspired/played alongside the US hardcore scene...

bands like

sham 69 (big in DC with the dischords kids)
blitz (the precursor to the west coast street punk sound)
discharge (very big in Boston, both Jerry's Kids and SSD used to do Discharge covers)
stiff little fingers (not an oi band, but big in boston among all the HC kids)
uk subs (another big in DC band...)
angelic upstarts
cockney rejects

were HUGE influences on the US hardcore kids... mix the new proto Oi with old hesher rock like Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Sabbath, Zeppelin (with a healthy dose of AC/DC and Motorhead) and you have US hardcore...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Me too, actually. And this is an excellent time to mention how incredible Iron Cross were. Not sure how you can link Powerviolence to rap metal. Thugged out NYHC definitely, but not Infest/Spazz type stuff. Also, I'm really into the "bad" NYHC records like "One Voice" and the Supertouch LP (NYHC guys try and sound like Alice in Chains, and it fucking WORKS!)

Haha, woah - Zeppelin an influence on USHC? Not heard that one before!


(Actually, there is that Minor Threat cover of 'Kashmir', now you mention it... )

Good thread!

Die Kreuzen