Obama and Philosophy

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
So long as the Republicans fail to stage the greatest voting fraud in history, Barack Obama will win the US Presidency tomorrow night in a historic landslide.

I'm interested in what Dissensus contributors think the Obama Event means for politics - in the widest possible sense - more generally.

To get the ball rolling, here is my opening contribution:

Obama has cleared the ground of identity politics - whether understood culturally, racially, or in its class-identity disguise - and established a new political paradigm for the Left grounded on transversal. This paradigm, oddly, owes something to Spinoza - witness Obama's revealing statement, apropos of Jeremiah Wright, that "his comments we're not only wrong, but divisive, divisive at a time we need unity." Unity is apparently a greater virtue for Obama than right or wrong - a claim that makes perfect logical sense if Spinoza's claim that Being is univocal can be granted.

Obama's taste for transversals is also evident in his approach to foreign policy. There was a very interesting article on this theme in the New Yorker recently, in which it was claimed:

Obama wants to “build a new international consensus around the challenges of transnational threats.” Of great-power competition as the defining element in statecraft, he writes, “That world no longer exists.” Instead of Russia and China, we should be focussed mainly on “terrorist networks intent on repelling or disrupting the forces of globalization, potential pandemic disease like avian flu, or catastrophic changes in the earth’s climate,” and the way to make headway there is by bringing together multinational coalitions and adding new elements to the traditional foreign-policy tool kit.

As [Anthony Lake, an Obama foreign policy adviser] put it, when I spoke to him, traditional statesmen see international relations as a game of chess, and “post-realists” see it as more like the complicated multidirectional Japanese board game of Go—“but Obama knows you have to play both boards at the same time.” (In the Obama camp, all dichotomies are false dichotomies, which the candidate transcends.)

This statement not only calls to my mind Deleuze and Guattari's comments on Go in A Thousand Plateaus, but seems to surpass it...

The article is available here:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/10/13/081013fa_fact_lemann
 

mos dan

fact music
i would start the thread myself but i probably won't be online after about 11 tmw (i will be getting incredibly wasted and possibly emotional). i really am very hopped up on obama youtube videos, i can't sleep:

immediate reactions to his 2004 dnc speech from the time it was broadcast
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
What I think is interesting about Obama is his economic philosophy. If you get past the campaign language and look back at a lot of his work from when he was a constitutional lawyer, you see an interesting emphasis on the idea that building infastructure is the primary function of government.

His refusal to be bogged down in identity politics is to his credit, obviously. Poor Hillary probably would have done much better in the primaries had she taken his cue on this. Identity politics is probably part of what is going to lose McCain (vis-a-vis Palin) and the republicans the election.
 

polystyle

Well-known member
Transversals

Obama's taste for transversals is also evident in his approach to foreign policy. There was a very interesting article on this theme in the New Yorker recently, in which it was claimed:

Obama wants to “build a new international consensus around the challenges of transnational threats.” Of great-power competition as the defining element in statecraft, he writes, “That world no longer exists.” Instead of Russia and China, we should be focussed mainly on “terrorist networks intent on repelling or disrupting the forces of globalization, potential pandemic disease like avian flu, or catastrophic changes in the earth’s climate,” and the way to make headway there is by bringing together multinational coalitions and adding new elements to the traditional foreign-policy tool kit.

As [Anthony Lake, an Obama foreign policy adviser] put it, when I spoke to him, traditional statesmen see international relations as a game of chess, and “post-realists” see it as more like the complicated multidirectional Japanese board game of Go—“but Obama knows you have to play both boards at the same time.” (In the Obama camp, all dichotomies are false dichotomies, which the candidate transcends.)

This statement not only calls to my mind Deleuze and Guattari's comments on Go in A Thousand Plateaus, but seems to surpass it...

The article is available here:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/10/13/081013fa_fact_lemann

The Anthony Lake quote makes a good point ...
We missed this kind of multi level approach in Gov. in the previous 8 years.
Cheers Josef
 

waffle

Banned
Josef K, it is mindbogglingly ridiculous to claim that Obama's cynically evangelical-redemptionist rhetoric owes anything either to Spinoza or Deleuze and Guattari; it is more like the script of the standard soft-focus, upbeat Hollywood narrative: "He knowingly played the part of the Messiah, while repeatedly modernizing the role with a Hollywood rhetoric: Obama talks like in a movie." The 'unity' Obama speaks of is a return to a 1970s-style nationalism (he's already making rumblings about protectionism) and neoliberalism, while his foreign policy is a return to the 1970s realpolitic of Nixon, Kissenger et al.

LT: Obama has indicated that he will not pursue any policy or diplomacy that weakens America's image. He is determined to be even more aggressive than the Bush administration has been in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He publicly supports Ukraine and Georgia's claim for admission to NATO. So, while the Obama executive may wish to forge a slightly more productive relationship with Russia, the belligerent programme that it is committed to substantially undermines this.

Nomadthesecond said:
What I think is interesting about Obama is his economic philosophy

More tax breaks combined with bail-outs for corporate America (he's currently in favour of a $25 billion handout for the motor inductry), with no serious indication of how any of this will be funded (just hoping China and Japan will go on buying up Treasury Bills with their export earnings). It's a predictable 'philosophy': more neoliberalism.

This is raw politics. Obama made his political career in Chicago, where blue flowers do not make old bones. Everything indicates that he at least does not take himself for Obama. Who will be his first accomplice? His buddy, another Chicagoan, Rahm Emanuel, he will be the real number two: the political hyper-efficient hit man, someone who doesn’t take prisoners. He will mercilessly operate behind the scenes, while on the stage our Saint John Chrysostom (golden mouth) sings lullabies for us.

issues1.jpg
 

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
The 'unity' Obama speaks of is a return to a 1970s-style nationalism (he's already making rumblings about protectionism) and neoliberalism, while his foreign policy is a return to the 1970s realpolitic of Nixon, Kissenger et al.

Time will tell, of course, whether or not this is right. But, at least if you listen to what Anthony Lake, Obama's chief foreign policy adviser says, Obama's foreign policy seems organized along different lines - specifically, on the idea of nations collaborating to combat transnational threats. In the US election, it was really McCain who was the big nationalist guy. "Country First" and so on...

Also, I am not sure that Obama (or anyone else, for that matter) could return the America to 1970s nationalism, even if he wanted to. He was appealing to unity, clearly... but was this was really a nationalist unity? I guess this could be argued - and Judith Butler for her part has already done so - but it seems to me that the question is open.

Certainly, Obama invoked no substantial content - as, for example, Palin did - in the service of his "There isn't a red America, and a blue America, but a United States of America" line. That is, it would not appear that there was a great "national" identity grounding his political clams - rather, it seems to me, their efficacy rested on the notion that it was possible, in some sense, to transcend identity.

And again, this is where I think Obama's ultimate novelty lies: he has transcended identity politics, including nationalist identity politics

I note that I am not necessarily affirming (or condemning) any of this. But I do think that there is something new about Obama, and the strategy and forces which delivered him to power, which is worth trying to grapple with on its own terms.

Equally, for my part I wouldn't say that Deleuze-Guattarian influence necessarily equals a Leftist- progressive mindset. As Eyal Weizman showed in his famous Frieze piece of some years ago [http://www.frieze.com/issue/article/the_art_of_war/] the IDF at one time was itself operating under these influences.

More tax breaks combined with bail-outs for corporate America (he's currently in favour of a $25 billion handout for the motor inductry), with no serious indication of how any of this will be funded (just hoping China and Japan will go on buying up Treasury Bills with their export earnings). It's a predictable 'philosophy': more neoliberalism.

Obama says he wants to subsidize the American motor industry to the tune of retooling it, in order to mitigate the effects of their disastrous recent business strategy of investing heavily in SUV productions. If he does not do this, the likelihood is that the US auto industry faces destruction - and for this reason, he is backed in this plan by the bulk of blue collar Michigan. I'm not altogether sure whether this is really neoliberalism, since a central plank of that (discredited) doctrine rests on the idea that the government broadly should stay out of the economy. Rather, it seems much more Keynesian to me.

This is raw politics. Obama made his political career in Chicago, where blue flowers do not make old bones. Everything indicates that he at least does not take himself for Obama. Who will be his first accomplice? His buddy, another Chicagoan, Rahm Emanuel, he will be the real number two: the political hyper-efficient hit man, someone who doesn’t take prisoners. He will mercilessly operate behind the scenes, while on the stage our Saint John Chrysostom (golden mouth) sings lullabies for us.

I'm not sure I follow... Is your argument here that there is effectively no difference whatsoever between the raw politics of Obama, and the raw politics which preceded him? I agree that it would be stupid to deify the man. But his coalition, and the source of his power, is different to the one which the Bush years depended on, and I think we could therefore expect it to operate differently. That said, of course raw politics is raw politics. But when has this been otherwise?
 

waffle

Banned
Time will tell, of course, whether or not this is right.

Yeah, but's that's New Labour-speak. It's already wrong.

But, at least if you listen to what Anthony Lake, Obama's chief foreign policy adviser says, Obama's foreign policy seems organized along different lines - specifically, on the idea of nations collaborating to combat transnational threats. In the US election, it was really McCain who was the big nationalist guy. "Country First" and so on...

So McCain, as with the neocons, were more upfront about it ...

"Transnational threats"????? "Let's all cooperate in hunting down (who we deem to be) the Evil Ones, unlike those Bushites who demanded we do so."

Pleeeeaazzze. Who, or what, has been the biggest threat to the world over the past eight years? Lake is a clueless, self-aggrandizing Americo-nationalist.

Also, I am not sure that Obama (or anyone else, for that matter) could return the America to 1970s nationalism, even if he wanted to. He was appealing to unity, clearly... but was this was really a nationalist unity?

He (and his old-school advisors) are doing exactly that.

I guess this could be argued - and Judith Butler for her part has already done so - but it seems to me that the question is open.

It seems to me that the question is closed (failing a miracle, of course, which ...).

Certainly, Obama invoked no substantial content - as, for example, Palin did - in the service of his "There isn't a red America, and a blue America, but a United States of America" line. That is, it would not appear that there was a great "national" identity grounding his political clams

United AGAINST what, exactly?


- rather, it seems to me, their efficacy rested on the notion that it was possible, in some sense, to transcend identity.

It is possible to abolish it, yes, but none of his actual policies indicate how he is actually going to do this. It's just (patronizing) spin.

And again, this is where I think Obama's ultimate novelty lies: he has transcended identity politics, including nationalist identity politics

He has not; he has just side-stepped these issues with appallingly sentimental rhetoric. I should not need to point out the dangers in this.

I note that I am not necessarily affirming (or condemning) any of this. But I do think that there is something new about Obama, and the strategy and forces which delivered him to power, which is worth trying to grapple with on its own terms.

I agree. That isn't what I was disputing. Arnold Governator, if he had run, would have been elected too ....

Equally, for my part I wouldn't say that Deleuze-Guattarian influence necessarily equals a Leftist- progressive mindset. As Eyal Weizman showed in his famous Frieze piece of some years ago [http://www.frieze.com/issue/article/the_art_of_war/] the IDF at one time was itself operating under these influences.

Yeah, this was discussed here in a number of threads in the past (last I heard, the IDF still was using D&G. Maybe the pro-Zionist Obama will now have a go).


Obama says he wants to subsidize the American motor industry to the tune of retooling it, in order to mitigate the effects of their disastrous recent business strategy of investing heavily in SUV productions. If he does not do this, the likelihood is that the US auto industry faces destruction - and for this reason, he is backed in this plan by the bulk of blue collar Michigan. I'm not altogether sure whether this is really neoliberalism, since a central plank of that (discredited) doctrine rests on the idea that the government broadly should stay out of the economy. Rather, it seems much more Keynesian to me.

No, neoliberalism renders the state in the exclusive service of capitalism: the Bush Admin practiced this on a massive scale over the past 8 years, from military Keynesianism (along with the state-subsidized privatization of "law and order" and "security" via its multi-billion handouts to the Dyncorps and Blackwaters etc) to tax-breaks for the rich to deregulated corporate tax-havens (Delaware's Hedge Funds, etc), while IGNORING/NEGLECTING public investment (ie Keynesianism).

What is being proposed for the auto industry is similar to that being implemented in the banking industry: bailing out the corporate sector on their terms, and for their benefit. It's 'hands off" interventionism, the normal practice, not a takeover of these industries along with their proper regulation. More (and more intensified) capitalism, not less.


I'm not sure I follow... Is your argument here that there is effectively no difference whatsoever between the raw politics of Obama, and the raw politics which preceded him?

No. I stated above that it is a return to the Kissenger era of realpolitic. More internationally persuasive, but no less lethal; possibly more so.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
More tax breaks combined with bail-outs for corporate America (he's currently in favour of a $25 billion handout for the motor inductry), with no serious indication of how any of this will be funded (just hoping China and Japan will go on buying up Treasury Bills with their export earnings). It's a predictable 'philosophy': more neoliberalism.

The bailouts have little to nothing to do with Obama, though, and a whole lot to do with 1) the right's insistence on more and more deregulation of banking and other industries, which created a global economic tsunami that, let's face it, America is left to take responsibility for and therefore must make an international display of its own efforts to stem the tide to the best of its ability, coupled with 2) Bush's cabinet (and the members whose best friends are in large part directly responsible for the global crisis) in its death throes trying in vain to preserve some shred of legacy.

I don't condone any of this, of course, but it seems all too clear why all of it is happening the way it is.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I suppose what I mean is that, not surprisingly, it was neocons who authored and ultimately authorized the bailout.

There is a tinge here of Obama seizing the opportunity to become a sort of self-styled New Deal FDR reincarnate, I suppose.
 

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
"Transnational threats"????? "Let's all cooperate in hunting down (who we deem to be) the Evil Ones, unlike those Bushites who demanded we do so."

Pleeeeaazzze. Who, or what, has been the biggest threat to the world over the past eight years? Lake is a clueless, self-aggrandizing Americo-nationalist.

By "transnational threats" Lake is referring to issues like climate change and avian flu, as well as international terrorism. At least on these first two scores, then, there is a clear discontinuity with both the Bush regime and the Nixon regime, the former of which was indifferent to these issues, the latter of which never faced them.

neoliberalism renders the state in the exclusive service of capitalism: the Bush Admin practiced this on a massive scale over the past 8 years, from military Keynesianism (along with the state-subsidized privatization of "law and order" and "security" via its multi-billion handouts to the Dyncorps and Blackwaters etc) to tax-breaks for the rich to deregulated corporate tax-havens (Delaware's Hedge Funds, etc), while IGNORING/NEGLECTING public investment (ie Keynesianism).

This definition of neoliberalism seems to be problematic, because imprecise. Lenin was discussing the State in the context of an instrument of ruling class suppression back in 1917, and he clearly wasn't talking about neoliberalism. Equally, it remains true to say that capital does not speak with one voice - to take the most obvious example, the interests of the Defence industry and the Oil industry (the major players behind Bush's political power) are not really the same as the interests of tech capital... It seems to me important to take this fact into account.

What is being proposed for the auto industry is similar to that being implemented in the banking industry: bailing out the corporate sector on their terms, and for their benefit. It's 'hands off" interventionism, the normal practice, not a takeover of these industries along with their proper regulation. More (and more intensified) capitalism, not less.

This is not how I understand Obama's auto industry proposal, which seems to be quite specifically targeted on retooling the sector to make it more globally competitive. This does seem to me largely Keynesian, insofar as Keynes did quite explicitly advocate the idea of using public money to stimulate private industries, rather than necessarily nationalizing them. But this is perhaps a terminological issue - and moreover, it is true to say that what exactly will happen here is still being politicked around Washington. I refer you to this article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20081111/pl_bloomberg/afbnpgqo6eoo = which discusses some of the issues in play.

Aside from these points, though, let me ask you this: supposing that everything you say is correct, to the extent that, as you say, the argument is already closed. What would you then suggest follows from this?
 
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waffle

Banned
By "transnational threats" Lake is referring to issues like climate change and avian flu, as well as international terrorism. At least on these first two scores, then, there is a clear discontinuity with both the Bush regime and the Nixon regime, the former of which was indifferent to these issues, the latter of which never faced them.

The comparison that was being made was between the policies of the incoming Obama regime and those of the 1970s (though the Clinton years could also be added here). And it isn't the specific issues being faced but the policy framework (with its assumption that the source of these problems resides outside the US, resides with the Other: the main source of environmental pollution remains the US; the main source and practitioner of 'international terrorism' remains the US - this really should be obvious to anyone who hasn't been asleep these past decades ['Asian flu': is this another instance of The Yellow Peril again? Maybe the US and other Western countries should be a little more concerned about the multiplying, lethal antibiotic-resistent superbugs in its hospitals]) in which responses to them are formulated and implemented. Obama has already indicated that he intends to accentuate world terrorism - by sending more troops to add to the war crimes the US is committing in Afghanistan, to if necessary invade Pakistan (with horrendous consequences), to continue supporting the pariah state of Israel in its continuing persecution of Palestinians, to continue with 'humanitarian interventions' (ie military invasion in the guise of protecting 'human rights') in Africa, etc. You appear to be operating under a very esoteric definition of 'international terrorism' (Arab/Muslim chaps blowing themselves up?).



This definition of neoliberalism seems to be problematic, because imprecise. Lenin was discussing the State in the context of an instrument of ruling class suppression back in 1917, and he clearly wasn't talking about neoliberalism.

This would be reasonable if it actually related to what I in fact said. However, I did not provide a definition of Neoliberalism (just illustrated one of its central features) nor did I make any mention of, or reference to, Lenin (it would have been quite an achievement for Lenin to have been talking about a 1970s ideology circa 1917). Neoliberalism has its origins in that 'laboratory' that was Chile in 1973.

Equally, it remains true to say that capital does not speak with one voice

It doesn't speak at all. It insists.

- to take the most obvious example, the interests of the Defence industry and the Oil industry (the major players behind Bush's political power) are not really the same as the interests of tech capital... It seems to me important to take this fact into account.

The tech (and computer) industry has for decades (indeed, since its origin) been a core part of the military-industrial complex (in the case of computers, from the invention of the modern digital computer to the invention of the internet, both were military innovations/developments), and in fact since the dot com bust of 2000/2001 a huge proportion of its funding has come from the massively expanded military budget, compliments of the Bush regime (weaponry design, missile/anti-missile defence, robotics/kinetics, satellites, simulation software, computer gaming, etc). But the specific insular interests of a particular subset of capital, of a ruling elite is not even relevant: capital has no difficulty in destroying whole sections of itself as part of its survival mechanism for dealing with crises and recurrent cyclicality:

"These contradictions [the highest development of productive power coinciding with a depreciation of capital], of course, lead to explosions, crises, in which momentary suspension of all labour and annihilation of a great part of the capital violently lead it back to the point where it is enabled [to go on] fully employing its productive powers without committing suicide. Yet, these regularly recurring catastrophes lead to their repetition on a higher scale, and finally to its violent overthrow." ----Grundrisse, Chapter 15.​

Well, the latter eventuality hasn't happened yet and clearly won't be happening as a result of the present still-worsening crisis.

This is not how I understand Obama's auto industry proposal, which seems to be quite specifically targeted on retooling the sector to make it more globally competitive.

But its a ridiculous proposal, totally out of touch with why the auto industry is in near-bankruptcy. Why? The industry is not 'suffering' from a technical or machinic misalignment, but from the combined effects of excessive debt leveraging and a collapse in consumer demand. It's broke, with neither liquidity nor solvency at its present debt levels (GM alone has something like $40 billion in debt). It simply needs funds just to pay its bills and debts, and with corporate credits (commercial bills and notes) gone, with banking credit gone, with share price collapse, the funds via the usual private-sector instruments are non-existent (and BTW, US auto-makers don't make their profits from selling cars, but from financing their sale, via their car finance/credit divisions). This is part of a wider, systemic problem: the massive increase in debt leveraging, slowly at first, but rapidly expanding in recent years, under neoliberal finance capitalism, which saw numerous otherwise competitive, profitable industrial and manufacturing companies (from airlines to auto makers) becoming increasingly saddled with debt. One of the principal culprits in this: the unaccountable Hedge Funds, owned by the super-rich, who borrow vast amounts from the banks on token equity, using the funds to buy up profitable companies - and then leverage those companies in turn with massive debts (temporarily increasing their value/share price), later selling them at a huge profit for the hedge fund, but leaving the companies with massive, often unsustainable levels of unwanted, costly (junk) debt. This has been happening everywhere over the past decade (the hedge funds aren't bothered: many of them profited in the multi-billions - via taking short positions - on the recent meltdowns, often deliberately orchestrating them.

Aside from these points, though, let me ask you this: supposing that everything you say is correct, to the extent that, as you say, the argument is already closed. What would you then suggest follows from this?

The world is entering into a depression. What happens in a depression? Capital and the means of production are written down to the point where (capital) reproduction/expansion becomes possible again. The chaos and social breakdown/retrenchment, the poverty and mass unemployment, is really a minor side-issue in this psychotic, literally mindless formula. And this is what will happen, what is happening (in the US. Obama doesn't have solutions [or rather, he has no real intention - he does not have the power given all the reactionaries he's now surrounded himself with - of implementing the genuine, necessary, and progressive ones] outside yet more neoliberalism. Obama's only function now is a calming one: to prevent serious unrest. And given how much of the Left has been passified by his soothing, messianic rhetoric, he'll probably be quite successful in that endeavour).

I hope I'm wrong, that he'll be pressurized (as with other western leaders) to develop and implement a comprehensive 'new deal'. But I don't see where the source of such pressure might be. The unions are asleep (has there been even one instance of a company being taken over by its workers yet? Has the Pope got a condom-vending machine ...), grassroots social movements are either token or completely misguided. The Left has itself been colonized - by neoliberalism, albeit in a pathetically disavowed form.
 

vimothy

yurp
the main source and practitioner of 'international terrorism' remains the US - this really should be obvious to anyone who hasn't been asleep these past decades

What do you actually mean when you say "international terrorism"?
 

vimothy

yurp
I think your analysis of hedge funds as chief-culprit is a bit off. Blaming them for upward pressure and downward pressure on the bubble is too simplistic. And "owned by the super-rich" -- unlike those other financial intermediaries run by the...?

But its a ridiculous proposal, totally out of touch with why the auto industry is in near-bankruptcy. Why? The industry is not 'suffering' from a technical or machinic misalignment, but from the combined effects of excessive debt leveraging and a collapse in consumer demand.

I'm not sure why you think these two facts (too much debt; collapse in demand) mean that GM will be unable to benefit from becoming more competitive. GM has (of course) been making most of its money in recent years from loans rather than car sales, which certainly suggests an avenue for improvement. But in any case, any restructuring/'re-tooling' will by definition seek to address the liability and demand issues. Whether this is more or less optimal than other options is of course uncertain.
 

waffle

Banned

You strike me as the sort of guy who'd be a closet Frank Sinatra fan. Isn't Chicago for you 'my kind of town'? Or do you suddenly prefer to forget about neoliberalism's chief propagandists in the early 1970s centering around Mr Friedman and backed up by your saviour, Mr Hayek? Chile became the blueprint for neoliberalism, as subsequently practiced, tweaked according to circumstance, by Reagan, Thatcher, Bush, Clinton, Blair et al.

What do you actually mean when you say "international terrorism"?

Uh, terrorizing other countries and peoples, deliberately, systematically, brutally, murderously. You know, US forpol these past many decades (and maybe, if you're a legal junkie, look up some UN and Geneva and Nuremburg laws and conventions for further 'what we actually mean' refinement). What do you mean by it, other than dem congenitally mad Mooozlimb funny-mentalists?
 

waffle

Banned
I think your analysis of hedge funds as chief-culprit is a bit off. Blaming them for upward pressure and downward pressure on the bubble is too simplistic. And "owned by the super-rich" -- unlike those other financial intermediaries run by the...?

Firstly, I stated that they were one of the principal culprits, having been facilitated by borrowing hundreds of billions of zero-interest based funds from the Japanese banking system between 2001-2006 (then freaking out when Japan returned to usury by raising its rates to 0.5%). The chief-culprit was total deregulation of finance capitalism, enabling a vast range of institutions from investment banks, stockbrokers, exchanges, hedge funds, traders, finance-instrument inventor-gurus, etc to act completely irresponsibly and unaccountably. Secondly, that wild-west ethos quickly colonized 'normal' finance institutions, from the Fannie/Freddies to the pension funds to the neoliberal ideologues within central banks and 'regulatory' authorities dictating policy.

I'm not sure why you think these two facts (too much debt; collapse in demand) mean that GM will be unable to benefit from becoming more competitive.

You're unsure because that wasn't what I was thinking, nor what I actually said. I wrote that its problem does not relate to the classic microeconomic stereotype of 'lack of competitiveness' (resolved by increased productivity via technical innovation/investment ['retooling']), but to systemic illiquidity and insolvency, for the reasons already outlined. Japan made this misrecognition mistake in the 1990s, at great cost.
 

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
The chief-culprit was total deregulation of finance capitalism, enabling a vast range of institutions from investment banks, stockbrokers, exchanges, hedge funds, traders, finance-instrument inventor-gurus, etc to act completely irresponsibly and unaccountably.

Intriguingly, you find yourself here in theoretical company with none other than George Soros, who speaks of the financial crisis in his most recent book thusly:

"I find this the most shocking abdication of responsibility on the part of the regulators. If they could not calculate the risk, they should not have allowed the institutions under their supervision to undertake them. The risk models of the banks were based on the assumption that the system is stable. But, contrary to market fundamentalist beliefs, the stability of financial markets is not assured; it has to be actively maintained by the authorities. By relying on the risk calculations of the market participants, the regulators pulled up the anchor and unleashed a period of uncontrolled credit expansion."

Soros, of course, is not opposed to capitalism per se - but rather only unregulated capitalism, as embodied in the "market fundamentalist" doctrine of neoliberalism. Is it fair to read your own position as well in these terms?
 

vimothy

yurp
You strike me as the sort of guy who'd be a closet Frank Sinatra fan. Isn't Chicago for you 'my kind of town'? Or do you suddenly prefer to forget about neoliberalism's chief propagandists in the early 1970s centering around Mr Friedman and backed up by your saviour, Mr Hayek? Chile became the blueprint for neoliberalism, as subsequently practiced, tweaked according to circumstance, by Reagan, Thatcher, Bush, Clinton, Blair et al.

Simply because Friedman offered advice to the Chilean regime, it does not therefore follow that Chile was the "blueprint of neoliberalism". The onus is on you to offer info in support of your hypothesis.

Uh, terrorizing other countries and peoples, deliberately, systematically, brutally, murderously. You know, US forpol these past many decades (and maybe, if you're a legal junkie, look up some UN and Geneva and Nuremburg laws and conventions for further 'what we actually mean' refinement). What do you mean by it, other than dem congenitally mad Mooozlimb funny-mentalists?

Ok, so the US is engaged in terrorism and terrorism is what the US is engaged in, but what do you actually mean by "terrorism"?
 
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