Innovative rhythm programming - wtf? moments

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
OK, open question, In the year of funky (TM), first blood must go to artists like Apple, Aphrodisiax...or not?

I've been loving Robert Hood lately, and the way he injects groove into techno like no other. And I'm stil beholden to the tricks the Madlib/Dilla (RIP) axis performs on rhythm, as showcased on Erykah's deceptively(?) simple 'The Healer'.

I personally thought that the way Gang Gang Dance interlocked various different rhythmic lines on the beginning to House Jam was pretty impressive.

I suppose 'wonky' might get mentioned too...
 

Client Eastwood

Well-known member
Been listening to a lot of Shakleton and his claps and what sounds like a empty clay vessel being played brings an intricate middle eastern feel. I take it must be programmed on computer but that must of taken ages as they repeat in an almost tabla like fashion.

Cant hear it properly but there an example of the clay pot playing on here. Fwd to 4 min if need be.
 
Last edited:

mos dan

fact music
possibly a bit off topic but, a mate of mine once went on a lengthy rant to me about how the manic st preachers had rewritten the rock rulebook with 'yes', by creating a hook-laden, catchy pop-rock song that could've been a massive radio hit, but for three rather huge reasons:

1) the fourth word is 'cunt'
2) the lyrics are v distressing - about prostitution as a metaphor for capitalism, that kind of thing
3) the rhythm is totally skewiff for a mainstream rock song. 7/8 or something..?

let me find a video... ah here we are

 

straight

wings cru
Been listening to a lot of Shakleton and his claps and what sounds like a empty clay vessel being played brings an intricate middle eastern feel. I take it must be programmed on computer but that must of taken ages as they repeat in an almost tabla like fashion.

Cant hear it properly but there an example of the clay pot playing on here. Fwd to 4 min if need be.

id assumed they were loops a la muslimgauze
 
Last edited:

BareBones

wheezy
I personally thought that the way Gang Gang Dance interlocked various different rhythmic lines on the beginning to House Jam was pretty impressive.

i don't know the proper names of any time signatures (except for 4/4) but going back to gang gang dance there's that tune on god's money - egowar i think it's called - that has an excellently weird rhythm. obviously it's not programming though.

can hear it here (cycle in about 2min40, you can hear it better after the singer stops playing drums alongside it)

what time signature is this then, trained musos?
 

Tanadan

likes things
It's 4/4, actually. The pattern of accents after the girl stops drumming is predominantly:
XxxXxxXxxxXxxXxx
ie
1231231234123123

And re: Shackleton, I don't think they're loops, thats what makes him so amazing.
 

mms

sometimes
i don't know the proper names of any time signatures (except for 4/4) but going back to gang gang dance there's that tune on god's money - egowar i think it's called - that has an excellently weird rhythm. obviously it's not programming though.

can hear it here (cycle in about 2min40, you can hear it better after the singer stops playing drums alongside it)

what time signature is this then, trained musos?

yeah when i saw gg dance they came on to a load of top draw dancehall, towards the end they were doing quite alot of stuff that sounded abstractly like they'd been checking out some of the funky stuff coming out of uk
 

Pestario

tell your friends
I have some Slimzee Rinse set from 2004 or something and he mixes in a track that's 3/4. That was a bit wtf in a good way
 

jambo

slip inside my schlafsack
3) the rhythm is totally skewiff for a mainstream rock song. 7/8 or something..?

I think one of Radiohead's singles might have been in 7 time. Pyramid Song? I'm not going to go and listen to it because they annoy me. Not that 7/8 is inherenty wtf at all but it's nice when it's done well and can be very danceable too.

What about autechre - drane? that's not 4/4 as well is it?

Can't remember which one that is. 777 is in 7 with 7 bar repeating sections I think. Something like that, you know these nerds.
 

Tanadan

likes things
What about autechre - drane? that's not 4/4 as well is it?

That's a quite slow 5/4 - the 'bass drum' is on the one. As for Egowar, I didn't listen extremely carefully, but it seems like the opening bell-y section is in 4/4, but a completely different (slower) 4/4 to the rest of the band which comes in at 1:30ish. And I think they don't always stick to the tempo of the second 4/4, sometimes it all dissolves for a while.
 

Tanadan

likes things
Not that 7/8 is inherenty wtf at all but it's nice when it's done well and can be very danceable too.

That's what I find so interesting about the odd time signatures - if you just count one-two-three-four-five-six-seven on the beat you sound like a total nerd, so to speak, but there are ways of splitting it up that sound incredibly funky.

Actually, now that I think about it, perhaps that's true of 4/4 et. al. as well - I always thought the kick drum on every beat of (modern) techno and house was one of the most unintuitive rhythmic patterns imaginable.
 

elgato

I just dont know
biggest rhythmic wtfs for me this year

- that Donae'o tune (haven't heard a name for it) with the really weird faint vocal - literally made me burst out laughing at how fucked the rhythm is
- Gloop / Aquafresh - Zomby (likewise!)

for me the biggest impacts are in the dancefloor context, because when you have tight steady grooves and then something takes it apart like that you maintain the steady groove and are just left shocked by the way the rhythms are disintegrating around you.. when that Donae'o tune dropped in the Mak 10 rinse set i literally just didn't know what had happened. Liberty by Scotty D was another one

both of those tunes were also massive wtfs in terms of aesthetic it must be said

in terms of dominant trends 2008 seemed like a year of dequantisation and digital disintegration in UK dance...

it was a sick year!
 
Last edited:

4linehaiku

Repetitive
What about autechre - drane? that's not 4/4 as well is it?

That's a quite slow 5/4 - the 'bass drum' is on the one.

I have (in my opinion) succesfully mixed that with a D1 tune which I can only assume is in 4/4. However my utter lack of musical theory stops me from knowing if that is a) impressive b) impossible c) unremarkable. I also have another mix with God's Money in it so maybe I just love making life hard for myself / shit mixes.

There's been quite a lot of this sort of thing this year I'd say, quite hard to put my finger on a single winner. One that springs to mind from a couple weeks ago is Flying Lotus - Grapesicles (Samiyam Remix) which I attempted to mix in during my radio show without really listening to it first, and instantly gave up as the rhythm unraveled gracefully all over the floor. Not WTF, but I liked it a lot.

As elgato says the dancefloor context is what gives it the WTF, and I haven't really had too many of those lately.
 
Last edited:

BareBones

wheezy
I have (in my opinion) succesfully mixed that with a D1 tune which I can only assume is in 4/4. However my utter lack of musical theory stops me from knowing if that is a) impressive b) impossible c) unremarkable.

i think i've heard that mix you did, if it was one you posted on dubstepforum a whiles back, and i thought it was very cool indeed. So i'd say it was successful, although it seems i don't even know what 4/4 is, so not sure if i'm the best person to judge!
 

elgato

I just dont know
i am working on rusty memories so please someone correct me if necessary but as far as i remember...

its definitely possible to mix 4/4 with 5/4, its just probably in most cases pretty difficult cos the phrases are out of sync and so its hard to judge a mix

4/4 means that one beat is a quarter note (the x/4 part) and that there are 4 beats to the bar (the 4/x part). so 5/4 is written in beats of the same length as 4/4 (if the two tracks are at the same tempo), its just that one 'bar' consists of 5 beats, so you'll get shifting phrases

please someone tell me to hush if im wrong!
 

UFO over easy

online mahjong
there's definitely nothing stopping you mixing a 5/4 tune with a 4/4 tune

you would have to judge it well, but if at least one of the tunes was really tracky it could sound sick - if there was a repetitive one bar phrase for example in the 4/4 tune and you had the bass up on the 5/4 tune, the melodic emphasis of the 4/4 tune would shift with each bar. it would go round in circles (pentagons maybe?), so you could judge it to take the 5/4 out when they're both back on a strong first beat again. there would be a bit of a cycle problem though but for dj-tooly tunes that wouldn't matter so much

i think it'd generally work well if the two tunes are both tracky but noodlier melodic stuff, or stuff with very strict 16 or 32 bar structures might sound a bit messy
 
Last edited:

jambo

slip inside my schlafsack
Yes that's right, the tempos may be the same but they'll go in and out of phase.

Or you could actually layer them poly-rhythmically so the bars run for the same length of time. This is probably easier with software but it can be done.

x-post with the ufo
 

4linehaiku

Repetitive
Or you could actually layer them poly-rhythmically so the bars run for the same length of time. This is probably easier with software but it can be done.

See now this is a great idea. Do you know of any mixes where anyone does this? A very limited range of tunes to pick from I suppose. The opposite might be easier, play two 4/4 tunes but with one at some fraction of the other's BPM such that they line up every x number of bars.
I have actually tried the later, but it sounded dreadful. I'm sure 90% of attempts would, but there must be some tunes that work? Very much a geeky DJ gimmick, but it would impress me. Also if audio was provided it might make this whole tangent relevant again!
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
3) the rhythm is totally skewiff for a mainstream rock song. 7/8 or something..?

I think one of Radiohead's singles might have been in 7 time. Pyramid Song? I'm not going to go and listen to it because they annoy me. Not that 7/8 is inherenty wtf at all but it's nice when it's done well and can be very danceable too.
Peter Gabriel's 'Solsbury Hill' went to number 1 in the UK and it's in 7 4. Not sure if Pink Floyd's 'Money' got as far up the chart, but, yeah, most people don't give a shit if they're not dancing. Wouldn't recommend listening to either for similar reasons to the above, tho. ;)

7 8 is more jerky sounding than 7 4, tho...
 
Top