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View Full Version : anti-BNP tactical vote for English folk on June 4th



scottdisco
20-05-2009, 12:47 PM
(i don't include Wales or Scotland as the BNP did badly in both places in '04.)

the sums i've been looking at are in my native North West, but please chip in anybody else from other regions. (BNP polled strongly in the West Midlands and Yorkshire and Humberside regions last time around for eg.)

given the PR system in use i would like to believe the Greens with their lovely videos about voting smart (http://www.stopnickgriffin.org.uk/sites/stopnickgriffin/blog/2009-05-19-votingsystem.html), but every single piece i've read in the press/blogs etc re the northwest seems to look at the big three parties, and then make an assumption about this final seat for the fourth-strongest party (8th seat, there are 8 seats up for grabs in the North West, as there are in London) being split between the Greens or the BNP, and quite a lot of people mention poor polling stats for Ukip.

my question is: does anybody have any indication of how Ukip are going to do (specifically in the North West but anywhere really)?
i've read plenty of comment saying Ukip are not a concern and their support has been falling but i'd have thought - anecdotal here, granted - they are going to do very very well. also, i've seen mention of bad polls for them but no evidence of this in the slightest.

i was going Green but have now paused and wonder if - as bad as this sounds - a tactical vote for Ukip would be the way forward. (the tragicomedy of an EU vote for a party that wants to leave the EU entirely, of course, does not escape me.)
hypothetically, if this region polls, say, Tory, Labour, Lib-Dem in order and the fourth party will be Ukip (as they were last time), to really make sure the BNP don't get anywhere, the most effective use of my vote is Ukip (who i despise personally), rather than the Greens.

yes i know all about Ukip, how this could be ultimately self-defeating, how i would be washing my hands afterward for a long time blah blah, but they are by far the less bad choice versus the BNP, and there is no use preening if the BNP are sniffing at the door; Nick Griffin is after all standing himself in the North West region.

thoughts from any of you political science types, leaflet droppers, etc?

ta.

crackerjack
20-05-2009, 01:05 PM
As a Labour tribalist, i'd much rather see UKIP doing well - not only are they less noxious than the BNP, they're fucking incompetents. and although they might reap the benefits of the expenses scandal, their own record in EU makes Westminster look like a home for saints. Plus they have the potential to split the Tories :cool:

Not that that matters, since Labour are double-fucked with whipped cream on top come next year :(

scottdisco
20-05-2009, 02:46 PM
yup, good points there.

just found this collection of polls (http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/european-elections), which is a bit helpful.

baboon2004
20-05-2009, 05:27 PM
Not that that matters, since Labour are double-fucked with whipped cream on top come next year :(

It's their own fault for not being better/more honest/more competent. That said, I will have to vote for them next year when it's a straight head-to-head between them and the Tories.

Mr. Tea
20-05-2009, 11:20 PM
It's their own fault for not being better/more honest/more competent. That said, I will have to vote for them next year when it's a straight head-to-head between them and the Tories.

I'm going to draw a big spunking cock on my ballot paper.

bassbeyondreason
20-05-2009, 11:39 PM
I'm going to draw a big spunking cock on my ballot paper.

I did that last time. Since then I've become re-illusioned and decided to vote Lib Dem.

Mr. Tea
20-05-2009, 11:45 PM
I did that last time. Since then I've become re-illusioned and decided to vote Lib Dem.

I think I voted LD in the London regional elections last year. Cleggy made some good (thought necessarily vague) points about the general state of parliamentary democracy in this country on Newsnight the other night and Paxo was most unsportsmanlike to him, I thought. Plus ca change...

Also, whatever you think of UKIP, it's encouraging (for people living in area where they are almost bound to end up with seats, I mean) that they rejected outright BNP overtures in the direction of a pact or merger last year.

bassbeyondreason
21-05-2009, 12:29 AM
If you think the BNP is bad, my local Mayoral election has a National Front candidate running, who promises "I will also oppose of any future mosques being built in North Tyneside".

Hopefully it'll skim some off the BNP vote.

hucks
21-05-2009, 08:53 AM
Got to be the Christian People's Alliance



George Hargreaves Born George Jackman in 1958. Educated at Woolverstone Hall School and Oxford University. Former songwriter, most famously penning Sinitta’s “So Macho”, now Pastor of the Hephizibah Christian Centre, Hackney. Contested Walthamstow for the Referendum Party in 1997. Contested 2004 Birmingham Hodge Hill by-election for Operation Christian Vote. Contested Scotland in 2004 European elections for Operation Christian Vote. Contested Na h-Eileanan an Lar 2005, Dunfermline and West Fife by-election 2006, Haltemprice and Howden by-election 2008.

matt b
21-05-2009, 11:07 AM
Got to be the Christian People's Alliance

it gets better than that:


Mr Hargreaves also says that the Welsh dragon on its national flag is a cause of sickness. He declared to the South Wales Evening Post back in March 2007: “Wales has been under demonic oppression and under many curses because of this unwise choice.” (http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/5185)

scottdisco
21-05-2009, 11:12 AM
Also, whatever you think of UKIP, it's encouraging (for people living in area where they are almost bound to end up with seats, I mean) that they rejected outright BNP overtures in the direction of a pact or merger last year.

a fair point T, and worth noting.

out of all the British Euro regions, there's like what about eight in England, East, South East, South West and so on, the only three really in danger from the BNP going on recent history are the West Midlands, Yorkshire and Humberside, and North West.

kinda depressing our four biggest English provincial cities are all in those places.

matt b
21-05-2009, 11:22 AM
a fair point T, and worth noting.

out of all the British Euro regions, there's like what about eight in England, East, South East, South West and so on, the only three really in danger from the BNP going on recent history are the West Midlands, Yorkshire and Humberside, and North West.

kinda depressing our four biggest English provincial cities are all in those places.

always coming up trumps (the programme, not me), thinking allowed touched on this a bit last week:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k9d7y

subvert47
21-05-2009, 11:38 AM
That said, I will have to vote for them next year when it's a straight head-to-head between them and the Tories.

tories vs. Tories? ;)

crackerjack
21-05-2009, 12:41 PM
kinda depressing our four biggest English provincial cities are all in those places.

Interestingly, though, it's the satellites rather than the main cities where the BNP luv lies - they'll get more votes in Burnley and Oldham than Manchesteror Liverpool, I guess.
Will the same go for Bradford/Dewsbury re Leeds?

scottdisco
22-05-2009, 01:41 AM
Crackerjack you are quite right, it's the like of Wigan, Stoke, Burnley, parts of Sandwell, etc., rather than, say, wards in Ardwick or Small Heath or Everton that are giving the fuckers comfort..

bassbeyondreason
22-05-2009, 02:00 AM
There's definitely a few BNP types in Everton.

scottdisco
22-05-2009, 02:19 AM
There's definitely a few BNP types in Everton.

well, agreed, but my point is the main worry in, say, the North West, is bits of Pendle, Burnley, etc., comparative to more inner-city areas.
(FWIW, i know the kick-off in Leigh the other month had BNP muscle ferried in from St Helens and Liverpool. well, so they say, i wasn't there.)

via a Blackburn council employee mate i know a one-time Blackburn with Darwen member of theirs was a truly useless beggar.

(but cheers to bassbeyondreason as that is a very good point that i clearly ignored and i don't want to sound like a cock.)

bassbeyondreason
22-05-2009, 03:11 AM
I made a point?
I was just remembering graffiti I see round my grandma's.

Bang Diddley
22-05-2009, 11:40 AM
Seen the BNP leaflet ?

http://www.crooksdesign.co.uk/stock-photography-misuse.html

scottdisco
22-05-2009, 11:55 AM
nice one


80 million low-wage, Muslim Turks
:rolleyes:

they'd do well in Austria or France with that kind of language..

scottdisco
23-05-2009, 12:47 PM
If you think the BNP is bad, my local Mayoral election has a National Front candidate running, who promises "I will also oppose of any future mosques being built in North Tyneside".

Hopefully it'll skim some off the BNP vote.

jeez that is bad :mad:

i went to uni at Keele and the National Front boot boys have always had a (relatively speaking, of course) strong presence on the streets of their Stoke headquarters

crackerjack
24-05-2009, 01:00 PM
Second consecutive good Nick Cohen piece.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/24/bnp-european-elections-nick-cohen

craner
24-05-2009, 11:50 PM
It's great though, the more exposure the BNP get the more exposed they are. That's the destructive logic of them: they are fascists, waiting to be exposed. And Brits are inimicable to fascism: that was Mosely's great mistake.

My mother said she was going to vote BNP and I blew my stack. I explained who and what they were. I said, look, if you want to go that way vote UKIP. And then: but, do you want to withdraw from the EU? She didn't. So she asked me who to vote for. I said, I don't know. She said, I like Ken Clarke. So I said, well, vote Tory.

I mean, I know these are dicey times. But I'm with Cohen, BNP aren't a real threat, down the line.

crackerjack
25-05-2009, 03:10 PM
Here they are in Luton yesterday (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1187165/Nine-arrested-masked-mobs-march-Muslim-extremists-turns-violent.html)

mms
25-05-2009, 04:42 PM
Here they are in Luton yesterday (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1187165/Nine-arrested-masked-mobs-march-Muslim-extremists-turns-violent.html)

supportive comments from british ex pats in the comments boxes, assholes, a guy i know from luton is quite worried about this shit, luton carnival today too.

Tentative Andy
25-05-2009, 04:42 PM
I wonder how widely known it is amongst potential voters out there that the BNP does not allow party membership to UK citizens who are not of white-Anglo-Saxon enthnicities? To me, this fact really gives the lie to their claim that their opposition to immigration is based on pragmatic, economic factor rather than deeper racial principles.
I mention this because I only became aware of the fact myself through watching a news article a few weeks ago (not that I was under any illusion that they were particularly nice people beforehand of course).

mms
25-05-2009, 05:06 PM
or the madness about repatriation for people not born in the uk, that is insanity.
They're just very thick people who hate everything apart from what they percieve to be themselves.

crackerjack
25-05-2009, 05:19 PM
I wonder how widely known it is amongst potential voters out there that the BNP does not allow party membership to UK citizens who are not of white-Anglo-Saxon enthnicities?

They may have relaxed that a little - didn't they have a Jewish candidate somewhere last year?

edit: yes they did. I felt so weird typing that, I thought I better double check before drowning in this great sense of stupidity.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article420930.ece

mms
25-05-2009, 05:24 PM
They may have relaxed that a little - didn't they have a Jewish candidate somewhere last year?

well it's impossible to maintain an anglo saxon whatever, cos the idea is a stupid falacy of racial fantasy.

scottdisco
25-05-2009, 05:36 PM
supportive comments from british ex pats in the comments boxes, assholes

it's always the way with a certain sort of ex-pat isn't it?

fuck them, fuck them right off.

Mr. Tea
25-05-2009, 05:43 PM
They may have relaxed that a little - didn't they have a Jewish candidate somewhere last year?


I dunno about candidates, but it's well known they've been trying to court the Jewish vote recently to exploit anti-Islamic feelings. Muslims are the new Jews as far as British fascists are concerned.

You've got to laugh at the idea that some people still think there are identifiable 'Anglo-Saxons' - is their candidate going to be called Wulfhere and canvas in chainmail, carrying a spear? What utter twats.

craner
25-05-2009, 06:47 PM
A friend of mine went through a mad phase five years ago during which he attempted to join the BNP because he agreed with their policies on crime. He's Bengali. He got a polite rejection letter from them that began, "Dear Mr. Rahman..."

None of us gave him a hard time for it because we all found it so funny.

bassbeyondreason
25-05-2009, 07:19 PM
Was his name actually Rahman?

craner
25-05-2009, 07:33 PM
Yep.

bassbeyondreason
25-05-2009, 09:02 PM
Damn, I was hoping it was some insanely ignorant default name they used for ethnic applicants.

mms
25-05-2009, 09:28 PM
You've got to laugh at the idea that some people still think there are identifiable 'Anglo-Saxons' - is their candidate going to be called Wulfhere and canvas in chainmail, carrying a spear? What utter twats.

yeah bonkers, absolutely bonkers, and of course why?

Mr. Tea
25-05-2009, 09:30 PM
Damn, I was hoping it was some insanely ignorant default name they used for ethnic applicants.

"Dear Mr. Asylum-Terrorist..."

mms
25-05-2009, 09:35 PM
"Dear Mr. Asylum-Terrorist..."

...thankyou for swamping us with your recent enquiry

craner
25-05-2009, 10:32 PM
He actually has the same name as this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizanur_Rahman)!

Poor Miz, he's been getting a bit paranoid lately.

scottdisco
25-05-2009, 10:40 PM
He actually has the same name as this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizanur_Rahman)!

Poor Miz, he's been getting a bit paranoid lately.

jeepers creepers Ollie!


He participated in the Islamist demonstration outside the Danish Embassy in London in 2006, where he prayed "Oh Allah, we want to see another 9/11 in Iraq, another 9/11 in Denmark, another 9/11 in Spain, in France, all over Europe. Oh Allah, destroy all of them."

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/torydiary/images/holo_2.jpg

nice.

craner
26-05-2009, 10:23 AM
Hey, come on, we all know that was an MI5 stunt.

Mr. Tea
26-05-2009, 01:17 PM
Man, I can't wait to kill me some (Zionist) Juice.

scottdisco
26-05-2009, 01:32 PM
i mean, heck, all those placards looked like they were in the same writing style

Mr. Tea
26-05-2009, 02:13 PM
i mean, heck, all those placards looked like they were in the same writing style

In fact it's almost the same handwriting as whoever writes out the Evening Standard headlines for the billboards the vendors display.

The plot thickens...

craner
26-05-2009, 03:59 PM
OTM, Mr Tea.

Martin Dust
27-05-2009, 09:11 AM
This site is worth checking if you want a smile about the BNP:
http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/

They same to be losing their grip in Sheffield but we still have some pretty fucked up neo-nazi's here for some reason.

scottdisco
04-06-2009, 03:15 PM
please please please please

alex
04-06-2009, 03:27 PM
hi Guys,

Havent really read into this alot, (not really much of a politcs fan, go politics yay!)

However, I am so against the BNP it is unreal & to think that my grandad actually voted for them makes me sick (he got a rollocking from me, believe) however, I can see why, as they appeal to the older generation of ignorance more (imo) than the younger, as the younger generation of that level of ignorance can barely lift there hand to dial the number to Jeremy Kyle as they are desperate to find out who little 'Bacardi's father is.

The Tory's & Labour might aswell be 1 party, as the left & right has just merged into one central photo oppertunity (imo) and that whole expenses scandal has just shown how fickle even the major members of each party are. So they are both out.

Lib Dems, pshh...

Who else is there?

craner
04-06-2009, 04:33 PM
UKIP-erry. (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/UKIP-To-Complain-About-Ballot-Paper-Fold-In-European-And-Local-Elections/Article/200906115296002?lpos=Politics_First_Home_Article_T easer_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15296002_UKIP_To_Complain_About_Ballot _Paper_Fold_In_European_And_Local_Elections)

crackerjack
04-06-2009, 04:52 PM
UKIP-erry. (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/UKIP-To-Complain-About-Ballot-Paper-Fold-In-European-And-Local-Elections/Article/200906115296002?lpos=Politics_First_Home_Article_T easer_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15296002_UKIP_To_Complain_About_Ballot _Paper_Fold_In_European_And_Local_Elections)

hmm, bad news - the BNP were on the top of my ballot paper

john eden
04-06-2009, 04:54 PM
The Tory's & Labour might aswell be 1 party, as the left & right has just merged into one central photo oppertunity (imo) and that whole expenses scandal has just shown how fickle even the major members of each party are. So they are both out.

Lib Dems, pshh...

Who else is there?

Quite!

mistersloane
04-06-2009, 06:13 PM
There was a piece in the Observer I think a coupla weeks ago where the interviewer asks Harriet Harman whether she thinks there should be a 'None Of The Above' section instigated on all voting forms in the light of recent 'scandals'. It was such a priceless question.

Mr. Tea
04-06-2009, 06:21 PM
as the younger generation of that level of ignorance can barely lift there hand to dial the number to Jeremy Kyle as they are desperate to find out who little 'Bacardi's father is.


Ahahaha. :)

Edit: predictable, boring Lib Dem from me. Because they're not Labour, or Tories, or BNP, or UKIP, or Respect, or Christian Alliance, or English Bolsheviks or whatever the fuck...

craner
04-06-2009, 09:50 PM
There were loads of Independents on my ballot paper and I was like, "who the fuck are these people??" I'd not heard of or from any one of them at any point over the last 3 months. I don't expect these people to organise sweeping door-to-door campaign teams or anything, but if you're putting your name forward then at least knock out a bloody leaflet or something. People are desperate for options, for goodness sake. How can I vote for somebody when I have absolutely no idea who he is or why or what he's standing for? Baffling.

Whenever I look at ballot papers, I get depressed by the amount of cranks around. Tonight, in Vauxhall, we had a good range: The Christian Alliance, BNP, Arthur Scargill's new party, UKIP, English Democrats, and, of course, the anti-stem cell, pro-holistic medicine Greens. And loads of Independents who may or may not be cranks, but no one actually knows. Maybe I should be pleased that they're not shoving themselves in my face.

I put my X for Labour, but in despair.

craner
04-06-2009, 11:33 PM
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw) is the clip which is now, thankfully, becoming more known, but it's still worth showing to as many people as possible. As well as the details, the context (http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=162) of said links. I still think UKIP will do an awful lot better than the BNP over the coming week.

don_quixote
05-06-2009, 12:15 AM
i didnt even look at the other parties. i just went for labour to give the media a kicking. hmm.

alex; the conflation (IS THAT EVEN A WORD?) of the two major parties may well be true, but the way i see it is the tories are still selfish fuckers just out for themselves and labour still has some good eggs. so there's nice hegemony and nasty hegemony, and i'd much rather nice hegemony.

this is the first time ive voted labour though (admittedly im only 23).

it all means fucking nothing though. and im fed up of this bnp guilt tripping. fucks sake. the labour wankers round here leafletted about only voting for them to keep the bnp out and put all their fucking policies on the back in fucking 10 point writing. piss ups and breweries. if you want to keep the bnp out fucking be electable.

sorry to sound so angry about this, but i have this sinking fucking feeling about waking up tomorrow and hearing that smug twat cameron being a smug fucking twat and i hate it i hate it i hate it. i might just opt out of life if/when he becomes prime minister. he is so fucking unbearable. i can't believe people are actually going to vote for that sneering, patronising and, god help me (yes, i'm a fucking reverse snob), etonian fuck.

gordon brown might be miserable, but at least he isnt a prick.

craner
05-06-2009, 12:19 AM
Even worse than Cameron is the horrific, horrific prospect of George Osborne being anywhere near power.

I think I agree with you on the BNP thing, actually.

scottdisco
05-06-2009, 12:20 AM
the anti-stem cell, pro-holistic medicine Greens.

true that Ollie.

big up Alex for the rollocking and, yes, that shower do attract a lot of protest votes :slanted:

don_quixote
05-06-2009, 12:25 AM
gideon osbourne? totally.

scottdisco
05-06-2009, 12:31 AM
the parties the Tories are attempting to cosy up to in the EU (as they simultaneously burn bridges with preferable old allies) are a right bunch of oddballs and no mistake.

seeing Hague try and squirm his way out of some questioning from Jeremy Paxman the other night on same was a bit of a grim laugh

don_quixote
05-06-2009, 07:16 AM
a grimmer laugh because no one fucking cares what he answers, :mad:

alex
05-06-2009, 09:32 AM
hazel blears really fucked Brown over in my opinion, what a way to follow suit & show your loyalty.

agree with voting labour just to spite the media..although dont think most people will.

Glad smith has gone also, she was spoliling my hobbies.

crackerjack
05-06-2009, 09:39 AM
hazel blears really fucked Brown over in my opinion, what a way to follow suit & show your loyalty.

It was a bit of tit for tat, wasn't it. Brown wasn't exactly playing nice by her.

The current state is unsustainable. You can't have a wounded beast running the party, but there's no saviour in waiting, just DOOM.

IdleRich
05-06-2009, 10:16 AM
I went for Green. Which I pretty much plan to do for the forseeable future. I think doing that keeps important issues on the agenda and it seems that that is about the most I can hope for from voting.
Definitely fascinating (maybe not the right word - compelling perhaps?) watching the parliamentary labour party fall apart. Purnell last night - who next? Getting their knickers in a twist about whether or not Brown should go is a massive distraction anyway, keep him or kill him they won't win the election.

john eden
05-06-2009, 10:35 AM
But surely the whole thing about Brown is about who will get the blame for them losing the election?

IdleRich
05-06-2009, 10:53 AM
Maybe. But you would think he would be a handy culprit when he falls on his sword after the elections - why bring someone else in now to taint them with that inevitable failure? Presumably they still think they can win with a different leader.

crackerjack
05-06-2009, 10:54 AM
But surely the whole thing about Brown is about who will get the blame for them losing the election?

Ken L gave a pretty disgraceful performance on Newsnight yesterday, describing the whole thing as a rightwing Blairite coup and claiming the people fiddling expenses are the ones doing the plotting. Kinda rich from the man who gave us Lee Jaspar, but a dangerous sign that parts of the party are more than ready to relapse into sectarianism.

crackerjack
05-06-2009, 10:54 AM
Maybe. But you would think he would be a handy culprit when he falls on his sword after the elections - why bring someone else in now to taint them with that inevitable failure? Presumably they still think they can win with a different leader.

No, they just think they might lose less badly.

BareBones
05-06-2009, 11:03 AM
a bit of a grim laugh

this is basically politics/elections in a nutshell for me.

And life.

craner
05-06-2009, 12:17 PM
Vanessa Feltz was loving it on London Live this morning.

don_quixote
05-06-2009, 08:01 PM
im pleased for her. she must live a very sad life.

subvert47
08-06-2009, 10:28 AM
Conservative 4,012,600 28.6% 24
UK Independence Party 2,440,438 17.4% 13
Labour 2,151,907 15.3% 11
Liberal Democrats 1,953,575 13.9% 10
Green Party 1,223,303 8.7% 2
British National Party 916,424 6.5% 2

:slanted:

seems like the Blairite project to eradicate the entire core Labour support has been completed and they can now be consigned to the dustbin of history

IdleRich
08-06-2009, 10:40 AM
So why is it that the left has got a kicking (almost) all over Europe regardless of which side is in power and how well they are doing?

alex
08-06-2009, 10:55 AM
To be honest I dont know why we need to be part of a European Parliment, surely we are able to govern ourselves as a country?, why do we need other sticking there hoars in??

IdleRich
08-06-2009, 11:03 AM
"To be honest I dont know why we need to be part of a European Parliment, surely we are able to govern ourselves as a country?, why do we need other sticking there hoars in??"
There is a lot more to it than the traffic in women although I'm not a fan of that either.

subvert47
08-06-2009, 11:06 AM
So why is it that the left has got a kicking (almost) all over Europe regardless of which side is in power and how well they are doing?

Yes, and I don't know why though it doesn't apply to Labour who have nothing left about them at all anymore.

subvert47
08-06-2009, 11:07 AM
To be honest I dont know why we need to be part of a European Parliment, surely we are able to govern ourselves as a country?, why do we need other sticking there hoars in??

Anything that takes power away from the wankers at Westminster is good as far as I'm concerned.

alex
08-06-2009, 11:17 AM
Anything that takes power away from the wankers at Westminster is good as far as I'm concerned.

Do you not think that its like throwing money into a black whole...were paying for literally fuck all, the expense scandal is a way of taking your attention to how much goes into that fucking EU Parliment im telling you, what a fucking waste.

subvert47
08-06-2009, 11:41 AM
Do you not think that its like throwing money into a black whole...were paying for literally fuck all, the expense scandal is a way of taking your attention to how much goes into that fucking EU Parliment im telling you, what a fucking waste.

Personally I wasn't that bothered about the expenses scandal so they put in claims for a load of stupid stuff because they could, so what. The money's peanuts compared to how much has been lost selling off public sector assets to profiteers and blowing people up in Iraq.

IdleRich
08-06-2009, 12:01 PM
"Personally I wasn't that bothered about the expenses scandal so they put in claims for a load of stupid stuff because they could, so what. The money's peanuts compared to how much has been lost selling off public sector assets to profiteers and blowing people up in Iraq."
Very true but I'm not surprised that people have gone mental about it. It's a lot easier to write an article about how someone has claimed for a porn film than it is to explain all the details of a PFI deal. Also, the expenses thing does seem like the final straw and I can totally see why people see it as a demonstration of absolute contempt for the people they are supposed to be representing.

baboon2004
08-06-2009, 12:17 PM
To be honest I dont know why we need to be part of a European Parliment, surely we are able to govern ourselves as a country?, why do we need other sticking there hoars in??

The European parliament employ whores? :p

Mr. Tea
08-06-2009, 03:56 PM
There is a lot more to it than the traffic in women although I'm not a fan of that either.

[Bernard Manning]

As if women in traffic aren't bad enough!

[/Bernard Manning]

Mr. Tea
08-06-2009, 03:56 PM
The European parliament employ whores? :p

I'm sure any number of them do...

craner
17-06-2009, 11:10 AM
Half a tic, what the fuck is going on in Belfast? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8104287.stm)

scottdisco
17-06-2009, 01:14 PM
good point Ollie.

Jan 2004 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3434241.stm):


Anna Lo of the Chinese Welfare Association said she believed that Belfast's growing reputation as a racist city was deserved.

"A lot of racist incidents have not been reported," she said.

"A lot of Chinese people would have kept away from reporting attacks because they are saying 'what is the point?'.

Dec 2003 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/dec/28/northernireland.race)


A gang of thieves orchestrated a series of racist attacks in Belfast to take the heat off their own criminal activities, The Observer has learnt.
People in the loyalist Village area blamed last weekend's violence that led to two Chinese and one African family fleeing the area on a group that they say is responsible for 51 burglaries in south Belfast this year.

Fearing retribution from local loyalist paramilitaries, the gang spread rumours that foreigners were behind the burglaries. Its members then launched the attacks on the Chinese and African homes last Saturday night, according to people living in the area.

In one attack in the Lower Donegall Road the gang burst into a house and assaulted two pregnant Chinese women - one of whom was due to have her baby on Christmas Day. A man in the house had his nose broken when a brick was smashed into his face. Bricks were thrown through the window of the two other families.

there's hundreds of stories like this in recent years. and there have been racist killings, oh aye.

from that last link though, the final paragraphs are interesting

Local unionist politicians organised opposition to the mosque's construction. Anti-racist campaigners in Northern Ireland accused the unionists of stirring up racial tensions for political gain. The organisation behind the Portadown and Craigavon racist incidents was the White National Party, an extremist breakaway faction of the British National Party.

There have been similar attempts by the WNP to organise in Belfast especially in the Village area. Last July the WNP daubed KKK and swastikas close to the homes of foreign workers and nurses.

However, both major loyalist organisations, the UDA and UVF, have not allowed the overtly racist groups to grow in their redoubts. The UVF's political wing, the Progressive Unionist Party, has been at the forefront of a campaign to stop racist attacks on Philippine and African nurses living and working in Ballymena, Co Antrim.

owengriffiths
17-06-2009, 03:30 PM
I hadnt heard about the housebreakers whipping up tension to cover up their activities. I find the idea of imigrants being serious crims in the area they just moved into laughable really, presumably people saw through that one a mile off. I know around 5 years ago the UVF in that area tried to convince an estate agent to put a 5 grand charge on houses that were being sold to imigrants. The idea being that it would limit the mount of imigrants that would move in to the area, but also be a good moneyspinner for the paramilitaries. However the estate agent didnt agree to it so they decided to break windows instead. Strangely enough the party that is associated with the UVF is one of the most left wing in the country, way more than Sinn Fein

matt b
23-06-2009, 01:41 PM
BNP might be prosecuted over membership policies:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8114619.stm


I'd love to see how they attempt to tally this:

In its constitution, the BNP says it exists to represent the "collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain"

It says membership of the BNP is "strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined 'racial group' this being 'Indigenous Caucasian' and defined 'ethnic groups' emanating from that Race".


With this:

Mr Griffin said the BNP was an exempted organisation under Section 25 and Section 26 of the Race Relations Act. He said this meant "ethnic groups who need special protection such as the English in their own country, who are now second class citizens" were "entitled to discriminate on that basis and not on the grounds of colour".
He added: "We are not discriminating on grounds of colour."


in court.

droid
23-06-2009, 02:23 PM
Half a tic, what the fuck is going on in Belfast? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8104287.stm)

Yeah. The gimps stoned an open topped tourist bus the other day too...

zhao
10-08-2009, 10:22 AM
not sure if this has been posted or would be of any interest...

Far right launch campaign of violence and intimidation against opponents (http://ow.ly/j7WR)

Bang Diddley
10-08-2009, 05:09 PM
Dont remember seeing this on the TV news anywhere. Did it go unreported ?

"Groups that say they are opposed to Islamist extremism are plotting fresh clashes with anti-fascist organisations this summer after violent battles between the two sides in Birmingham city centre led to 35 arrests over the weekend"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/09/defence-league-casuals-birmingham-islam

john eden
10-08-2009, 05:14 PM
not sure if this has been posted or would be of any interest...

Far right launch campaign of violence and intimidation against opponents (http://ow.ly/j7WR)

This would seem to be bullshit - internet hype for internet hardmen.

john eden
10-08-2009, 05:17 PM
Dont remember seeing this on the TV news anywhere. Did it go unreported ?

"Groups that say they are opposed to Islamist extremism are plotting fresh clashes with anti-fascist organisations this summer after violent battles between the two sides in Birmingham city centre led to 35 arrests over the weekend"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/09/defence-league-casuals-birmingham-islam

There was quite a lot of coverage of the event which kicked all this off - the muslims in Luton protesting against a march by returning soldiers.

The whole thing is fucking retarded from start to finish:

fundie islamists trying to wind people up -> football firms drunk on patriotism up for a ruck -> useless anti-fascists the UAF after publicity.

john eden
10-08-2009, 05:19 PM
Give Up Anti Fascism

http://redstarcommando.blogspot.com/2009/08/give-up-anti-fascism.html

By a friend - long, but the best thing I have seen on the topic for ages and a good summary of where a bunch of my bile is coming from.

martin
10-08-2009, 05:33 PM
Casuals United is weird, not really 'fascists', not really 'hooligans' (it's bizarre, they're using the Stone Island logo and selling 'calling cards', but jabbering on about 'peaceful protest' - but who are they? Why don't they come out with info on which firms exactly? Or have I just missed that bit?)...

mistersloane
10-08-2009, 06:15 PM
Funny I was just gonna start a thread on them

http://casualsunited.webs.com/

Goin down Whitechapel shouting 'We want our country back' isn't really a good advert for a non-racist organisation, is it? Which is a shame cos I quite like the Infidel baseball cap...

mistersloane
10-08-2009, 06:27 PM
Casuals United is weird, not really 'fascists', not really 'hooligans' (it's bizarre, they're using the Stone Island logo and selling 'calling cards', but jabbering on about 'peaceful protest' - but who are they? Why don't they come out with info on which firms exactly? Or have I just missed that bit?)...

Given the organisation name and the T-shirt and baseball cap merchandise, I'd lay bets it's the old Chelsea skins.

massrock
10-08-2009, 07:57 PM
People travel from London to Birmingham to 'do a bit of shopping'?

Mr. Tea
10-08-2009, 11:31 PM
If you read the BDF website you'll see it's not Muslims they have a problem with, it's those dastardly muslems.

On another racism-related note, did anyone spot this: "folk musicians angry at their songs being used on BNP website without permission (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8191094.stm)"? Seemed kind of pertinent given how often politically dodgy 'neo-folk' types crop up in threads here.

Bang Diddley
11-08-2009, 11:00 AM
There was quite a lot of coverage of the event which kicked all this off - the muslims in Luton protesting against a march by returning soldiers.

The whole thing is fucking retarded from start to finish:

fundie islamists trying to wind people up -> football firms drunk on patriotism up for a ruck -> useless anti-fascists the UAF after publicity.

Nail on the head mate.

Yes, I heard about the Luton bizness but didnt realise it has escalated to organising regular unpoliced meets in ethnically diverse citys is just winding up ppl who are ready to be wound up is a worry and vice versa.

zhao
11-08-2009, 11:48 AM
Give Up Anti Fascism

http://redstarcommando.blogspot.com/2009/08/give-up-anti-fascism.html

By a friend - long, but the best thing I have seen on the topic for ages and a good summary of where a bunch of my bile is coming from.

thanks for this. good points!

Bang Diddley
11-08-2009, 12:02 PM
The last point was an important obsevervation from what I have seen.

4) Stop the marches/labelling/shouting etc Marching into an area that you do not know and have no continuing interest in, shouting what’s right for that area is alienating and counter-productive. People do not like being told what’s best for them and will kick back against or simply ignore this sort of activity.

I'm quite suprised at the number of black and asian youth/middle agers who dont even bother to vote and stategies like the above dont interest them. There does need to be something else but I dont know what. There was demo recently and the number of non white faces in attendence was minimal.