How dodgy is soy?

Status
Not open for further replies.

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Articles like the one below make it sound like a very bad idea indeed for males especially to eat un-fermented soy products.

Is it that bad? Is there scientific / nutritionist consensus?

Would the dairy / meat industries perhaps have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around soy based foods?

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/artic...d3803313651210VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=0

There are lots of people who shouldn't drink or eat soy products because of soy estrogens. These are mostly people with pituitary problems or other very serious and grave illnesses.

Healthy men probably have the least to worry about from it--the guy in that article was drinking an ungodly amount of soy milk. A moderate amount of soy product is not going to turn anyone who was born male into a "female". If it did every transexual in the world would have an IV line hooked up right now.

Bear in mind there are hormones and antibiotics artificially injected into cows and therefore present in cow's milk, too. It's not as if you'll be avoiding hormones by limiting yourself to dairy products.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
Would the dairy / meat industries perhaps have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around soy based foods?

would the oil and auto industry have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around electric cars?

estrogen... low sperm count... it's all donkey kaka. just look at china: the entire nation is eating and breathing soy every day -- i WISH it caused low birth rates.
 

massrock

Well-known member
would the oil and auto industry have an interest in encouraging bad publicity around electric cars?
Yeah exactly. But I can't tell where research / articles have come from, who's funded them etc. I realise these things are in the interests of certain lobbies though.
estrogen... low sperm count... it's all donkey kaka. just look at china: the entire nation is eating and breathing soy every day -- i WISH it caused low birth rates.
There's some talk about a distinction between fermented and un-fermented soy. The suggestion being that most of the soy consumed in China and other places where it's been used for a long time tends to be fermented, which does not retain the same chemicals. That's what 'they' say anyway.

Tofu is supposed to be OK, for instance.
 
Last edited:

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I didn't read the article but I have a hard time taking the idea seriously. I was vegan for 10+ years (including my entire adolescence) & I still eat tempeh & tofu on the regular & I'm fine. tho I was never one of those vegans who goes in for vegan junk food - fake bacon & soy ice cream & whatever else - I like that stuff even less then "real" junk food.

Soy isn't "bad". it's not "good" either. it's like anything - it is what it is. if you eat in excess then it's bad. if you eat in moderation in a balanced diet with other protein sources, (a lot of) vegetables, some fruit (& meat and/or dairy if you're into that kinda stuff) then it's fine.

tofu is usually unfermented btw, tho there's also fermented tofu.
 

pajbre

Well-known member
a lot of it has to do with the cultivation methods, for instance i would never eat soy products made in the U.S. (and i eat along the vegan/raw spectrum.)

some research indicates that non-artisan, non-fermented, mass-produced, soy products can also suppress the immune system.

there are so many other viable non-animal protein sources out there that aside from your occasional tempeh meatballs, there's no reason to fuck with soy.
 
Last edited:

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
there are so many other viable non-animal protein sources out there that aside from your occasional tempeh meatballs, there's no reason to fuck with soy.

well as I said it's like anything. if you eat too much of it, or just have a generally shitty diet, it's gonna be deleterious. but it's not like you have to go out of your way to avoid it either.

I think it's an economic issue for a lot of people - not just talking about young, (at least relatively) affluent, health-conscious &/or vegan types - who depend on soy as a cheap protein source. ditto textured vegetable protein.
 

pajbre

Well-known member
true but legumes, whole grains, and even dark greens have more than enough protein, all of which are usually cheaper than soy or textured vegetable supplements.

the protein craze is out of hand, anyways, it is massively overemphasized in nutritional discourses.
 

massrock

Well-known member
Vegans and veggies do have to pay some attention to getting enough protein. I suppose the protein craze you mean is stuff like Atkins? But yes, lots of other sources of cheapish protein.

I mostly just use soy milk, it's the best alternative to cow-juice I know of, tastes nice on my coffee. That's the majority of my soy intake, it's nothing excessive at all.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"There's some talk about a distinction between fermented and un-fermented soy. The suggestion being that most of the soy consumed in China and other places where it's been used for a long time tends to be fermented, which does not retain the same chemicals. That's what 'they' say anyway."
This is something I hear a lot too. I can't say I give too much of a fuck either way though to be honest.
 

massrock

Well-known member
I would give a fuck, or at least avoid the stuff if I thought there was much to it.

The article I linked above (in Men's Health magazine) is some quite severe scare-mongering.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Sorry, that wasn't very helpful. I'm drunk. But the first bit is true, that is what my flatmate and his Japanese girlfriend always used to say about fermented/unfermented soy and I always naively assumed they had some knid of inside track on this kind of thing.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
There's some talk about a distinction between fermented and un-fermented soy. The suggestion being that most of the soy consumed in China and other places where it's been used for a long time tends to be fermented, which does not retain the same chemicals. That's what 'they' say anyway.

as long as the super fermented pickled tofu is ok i'm happy! :)
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I mostly just use soy milk, it's the best alternative to cow-juice I know of...

If you were to actually juice a cow, you would not get milk. Well, some of it might be milk. But most of it wouldn't.



(Also, is soya milk particularly similar to real milk? Because in that article it says the guy uses it as a "thirst quencher" in the "Texas heat". From my experience, milk is the last thing you'd use to quench your thirst in severe heat - Phlegm City, here we come!)
 

pajbre

Well-known member
If you were to actually juice a cow, you would not get milk. Well, some of it might be milk. But most of it wouldn't.



(Also, is soya milk particularly similar to real milk? Because in that article it says the guy uses it as a "thirst quencher" in the "Texas heat". From my experience, milk is the last thing you'd use to quench your thirst in severe heat - Phlegm City, here we come!)

the thought of guzzling a glass of soy music is so gross to me... with any of the milk alternatives (almond, rice, hemp, oat, etc), think of how many grains/nuts have to be pressed in order to produce a box of liquid (it's quite a lot)... that is a TON of calories and sugars.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
the thought of guzzling a glass of soy music is so gross to me... with any of the milk alternatives (almond, rice, hemp, oat, etc), think of how many grains/nuts have to be pressed in order to produce a box of liquid (it's quite a lot)... that is a TON of calories and sugars.

Yeah, the glycemic index of that shit is much higher than you'd probably assume, it being heart-healthier than diary.

Isn't that always the way? You get to choose between clogging your arteries or gaining weight/slowing down your metabolism with carbs.

I'm supposed to be on a high protein diet. If I eat bread I get bad moods.
 

massrock

Well-known member
Sorry, that wasn't very helpful. I'm drunk. But the first bit is true, that is what my flatmate and his Japanese girlfriend always used to say about fermented/unfermented soy and I always naively assumed they had some knid of inside track on this kind of thing.
I first started hearing things like this a few years ago but mostly from people who weren't particularly into soy and had no interest in being vegetarian at all so I wonder where the information was coming from.
Mr. Tea said:
If you were to actually juice a cow, you would not get milk. Well, some of it might be milk. But most of it wouldn't.
Really, I always thought they just put the cows in a big blender. Who knew?
 

massrock

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
(Also, is soya milk particularly similar to real milk? Because in that article it says the guy uses it as a "thirst quencher" in the "Texas heat". From my experience, milk is the last thing you'd use to quench your thirst in severe heat - Phlegm City, here we come!)
I think it's pretty nice these days. Certainly the better brands but even Sainsbury's own stuff is OK for instance. It's definitely got better, not at emulating cow's milk but just as being a usable thing. I wouldn't usually drink it in large quantities or on its own but it's really really fine in tea, coffee or cereal. People who have a bad idea about it are usually surprised I find.

I way prefer it to animal milk now which actually grosses me out quite a bit.
the thought of guzzling a glass of soy music is so gross to me... with any of the milk alternatives (almond, rice, hemp, oat, etc), think of how many grains/nuts have to be pressed in order to produce a box of liquid (it's quite a lot)... that is a TON of calories and sugars.
Hmm, yes except most of the liquid is just added water you know.
 
Last edited:

zhao

there are no accidents
and what is the verdict on drinking cow milk? is that shit good or bad for you? or only good for babies? i hear what some say about we should not drink milk meant to be digested by 4 stomachs...

i always choose soy, but not the bland tasteless stuff from supermarkets or health food shops, have to be from the asian markets.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top