outdated modernism in dance music

zhao

there are no accidents
what is kind of interesting / lame is dance music's obsession with outdated modernist and machine age ideas and forms half a century after its "demise". in particular minimal, dubstep, etc.: you get an un-ironic fetishization of unadorned geometry and cold machine forms, as well as a reprise of slogans like "form follows function".

how do people interpret this? is it nostalgia? is it conscious post-modern referentiality/retro? (don't think so) is it the product of uneducated djs and producers ignorant of recent art historical developments, who genuinely think that it's "new" and exciting? is it simply adolescent males so uncomfortable with their own bodies and emotions that they long for a machine world devoid of humanity?

and just like the vapid self-absorption of the deluded Italian Futurists, who endlessly railed against the bourgeois notions of "Good Taste" in favor of pure Machine and Function --- their works were nothing BUT "Good Taste".

function??? what function?!?! it's just style isn't it?!?!?!?! in fact, there is nothing else, no content, no nothing, it's all just pure aesthetics for the sake of aesthetics!!!!

(written after seeing a Rastor Noton show a year or 2 ago in which they had big projections of the words FORM and FUNCTION in helvetica)

and my rants a while back against "cold machine music" from techno to dubstep being a music of death in various threads (not all of which i agree with - because a part of me of course still love a lot of this music), finds a sympathetic parallel in this 2006 Ballard article on Architecture:

The modernists wanted to strip the world of mystery and emotion. No wonder they excelled at the architecture of death

(most relevant part excerpted here) ... Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia were two utopian projects that turned into the greatest dystopias the world has known. Modernism briefly survived them both, but lost its nerve in the 1960s when the municipal high-rise estates in St Louis, Missouri, were deemed social catastrophes and dynamited. However, I sometimes think that social catastrophe was what the dirt-poor residents secretly longed for.

Modernism's attempt to build a better world with the aid of science and technology now seems almost heroic. Bertolt Brecht, no fan of modernism, remarked that the mud, blood and carnage of the first world war trenches left its survivors longing for a future that resembled a white-tiled bathroom. Architects were in the vanguard of the new movement, led by Le Corbusier and the Bauhaus design school. The old models were thrown out. Function defined form, expressed in a pure geometry that the eye could easily grasp in its entirety. Above all, there should be no ornamentation. "Less is more," was the war cry, to which Robert Venturi, avatar of the tricksy postmodernism that gave us the Sainsbury wing of the National Gallery, retorted: "Less is a bore."

But the modernists maintained that ornamentation concealed rather than embellished. Classical columns, pediments and pilasters defined a hierarchical order. Power and authority were separated from the common street by huge flights of steps that we were forced to climb on our way to law courts, parliaments and town halls. Gothic ornament, with all its spikes and barbs, expressed pain, Christ's crown of thorns and agony on the cross. The Gothic expressed our guilt, pointing to a heaven we could never reach. The Baroque was a defensive fantasy, architecture as aristocratic playpen, a set of conjuring tricks to ward off the Age of Reason.

So modernism was a breath of fresh air and possibility. Housing schemes, factories and office blocks designed by modernist architects were clear-headed and geometric, suggesting clean and unembellished lives for the people inside them. Gone were suburban pretension, mock-Tudor beams and columned porticos disguising modest front doors.

Hitler and Stalin were intrigued by modernism, which seemed part of a new world of aviation, radio, public health and mass consciousness. But the dictators were nervous of clear-headed people who thought for themselves. The Nazis promptly closed the Bauhaus when they came to power and turned it into an SS training school.

Modernism saw off the dictators, and among its last flings were Brasilia, the Festival of Britain and Corbusier's state capital buildings at Chandigarh in India. But it was dying on its pilotis, those load-bearing pillars with which Corbusier lifted his buildings into the sky. Its slow death can be seen, not only in the Siegfried line and the Atlantic wall, but in the styling of Mercedes cars, at once paranoid and aggressive, like medieval German armour. We see its demise in 1960s kitchens and bathrooms, white-tiled laboratories that are above all clean and aseptic, as if human beings were some kind of disease. We see its death in motorways and autobahns, stone dreams that will never awake, and in the turbine hall at that middle-class disco, Tate Modern - a vast totalitarian space that Albert Speer would have admired, so authoritarian that it overwhelms any work of art inside it.

Modernism was never popular in Britain - a little too frank for its repressed natives, except at lidos and the seaside, where people take their clothes off. The few modernist houses and apartments look genuinely odd. Why?

I have always admired modernism and wish the whole of London could be rebuilt in the style of Michael Manser's brilliant Heathrow Hilton. But I know that most people, myself included, find it difficult to be clear-eyed at all times and rise to the demands of a pure and unadorned geometry. Architecture supplies us with camouflage, and I regret that no one could fall in love inside the Heathrow Hilton. By contrast, people are forever falling in love inside the Louvre and the National Gallery.

All of us have our dreams to reassure us. Architecture is a stage set where we need to be at ease in order to perform. Fearing ourselves, we need our illusions to protect us, even if the protection takes the form of finials and cartouches, corinthian columns and acanthus leaves. Modernism lacked mystery and emotion, was a little too frank about the limits of human nature and never prepared us for our eventual end.

But all is not lost for admirers of modernism. They should visit the mortuary island of San Michele in the Venice lagoon, where many pioneers of modernism such as Igor Stravinsky, Serge Diaghilev and Ezra Pound are interred. After taking the ferry, you disembark at a gloomy landing stage worthy of Böcklin's Island of the Dead. This is a place beyond hope, of haunted gateways and melancholy statues.

But then, in the heart of the cemetery, there is a sudden lightening of tone, and you find you are strolling through what might be a Modern suburb of Tunis or Tel Aviv. The lines of family tombs resemble cheerful vacation bungalows, airy structures of white walls and glass that might have been designed by Le Corbusier or Richard Neutra. One could holiday for a long time in these pleasant villas, and a few of us probably will.

So, there is one place where modernism triumphs. As in the cases of the pyramids and the Taj Mahal, the Siegfried line and the Atlantic wall, death always calls on the very best architects.

perhaps there is another place where modernism triumphs... electronic dance music.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
Interesting question I think. Absolutely no idea whatsoever as to the answer though. For what it's worth I agree about this bit

is it nostalgia? is it conscious post-modern referentiality/retro? (don't think so)
 

wascal

Wild Horses
is it the product of uneducated djs and producers ignorant of recent art historical developments, who genuinely think that it's "new" and exciting?

Almost exclusively yes. Probably a case of producers doing something different to last years favoured style - therefore making something that sounds 'new' to the latest wave of fresh faced clubbers without encyclopedic knowledge of dance music history.

I wouldn't call it uneducated though, at the end of the day the music is being made for people to dance to - sometimes old tricks either weren't fully explored or executed badly and benefit from further examination. I'd imagine a large cross-section of producers couldn't give two hoots about recent art historical developments.
 

UFO over easy

online mahjong
owen hatherley talks about it a bit in this interview

http://www.readysteadybook.com/Article.aspx?page=owenhatherley

I argue that Modernism as an active movement lasts several more decades, and is in a sense something which continues in other arenas after the '70s, when its death was proclaimed in architecture – punk and post-punk, or rave and jungle, strike me as Modernist movements rather than postmodernist ones, in that there's no ironic distance in them, no deference towards older forms, a certain technological fearlessness, and an attempt, either conscious or completely apolitical, to change the everyday.

so I guess he goes into more detail in his book

but

in particular minimal, dubstep, etc.: you get an un-ironic fetishization of unadorned geometry and cold machine forms, as well as a reprise of slogans like "form follows function"

i can't think of anyone in dubstep who does that. i haven't seen much of that kind of unqualified, meaningless sound bite-y branding.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
owen hatherley talks about it a bit in this interview

i can't think of anyone in dubstep who does that. i haven't seen much of that kind of unqualified, meaningless sound bite-y branding.

nice interview. i was thinking someone must have written about this...

regarding dubstep, to me 90% of it would fit the description "un-ironic fetishization of unadorned geometry and cold machine forms". no? or do you mean specifically the use of "form - function" slogan? in which case, no they don't do that... and a lot of the dubstep cover art...

some of what designers republic did for Warp though is not exactly straight modernism i don't think... a lot of it was a consumerist self-conscious pop parody of high modernism.

at the end of the day the music is being made for people to dance to.

I'd imagine a large cross-section of producers couldn't give two hoots about recent art historical developments.

of course they don't care about "the discourse"; i was not being clear with that sentence... what i meant was more:

"why are these cold rigid machine forms still completely dominating the area of dance music, a half century later, almost entirely excluding every other musical mode?"

for instance, after bio-design's rhetoric of catering to the human body, one would think there would at least exist some kind of new organics in electronic music, one which eschews rigid mechanical syncopation.

the aesthetic certainly has survived in other places, for sure. IKEA, architecture, etc., but in all other disciplines you see a wide variety of competing styles/ideologies, whereas modernism seems to have a monopoly on the EDM market...

i think things are changing up though. maybe. slowly...
 

UFO over easy

online mahjong

ill be shakin it to some futurism in the next few days certainly

zhao said:
regarding dubstep, to me 90% of it would fit the description "un-ironic fetishization of unadorned geometry and cold machine forms". no?

nah, i don't reckon. i can see how it might look that way from berlin though, buying your records in hardwax and stuff and hearing the music in the berghain. that's cool though, different contexts etc
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
"why are these cold rigid machine forms still completely dominating the area of dance music, a half century later, almost entirely excluding every other musical mode?"

Is this really the case, though? I thought African influences, for one thing, were meant to be all over various styles of dance music (in the UK, at any rate) at the moment?

(Disclaimer: I could well be talking completely out of my arse here, as I certainly don't go out of my way to stay abreast of current developments in music - this is just the impression I'd got from occasionally skimming a few of the Music threads on here. Or is it simply that African influences are big right now in the kind of tunes that Dissensus music nerds are into, and not representative of what Joe Public is bopping along to at Club Generic?)
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
There probably is a bit of Dissensus bias going on, but it's certainly not an insignificant thing out in the clubs etc either. Of course there's room for debate about how closely influenced by actual African music it is too. But I don't really recongnise the image Zhao is holding up for critique; maybe I'm just lucky with what I listen to.
 
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UFO over easy

online mahjong
on the hatherley thing again should probably be pointed out that what he says is specific to early rave and jungle, i don't think it could apply to techno or dubstep or anything i can think of that's going on at the moment
 

nomos

Administrator
I don't think you can have the conversation without foregrounding Afrofuturism which doesn't coincide neatly with its Euro counterpart. It precedes and outlives it too, particularly (in the latter case) in dance musics. This is the more relevant frame of reference, and it forces a reconsideration of what modernism is/was (and for whom) as well as its alleged demise. You can't talk about techno or jungle as futurisms without making that distinction.

I'm much more interested in musics that still express a modernist drive (which I think can even be found in something like Burial's resurrection of unfulfilled futures) rather than hearing people embrace the unthinking fetishization of irony which is all over the place in the last decade. Either can be ham fisted but the latter is death.
 

nomos

Administrator
ironic engagements of the machine are also rife in modernist discourses of various sorts.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
nah, i don't reckon. i can see how it might look that way from berlin though, buying your records in hardwax and stuff and hearing the music in the berghain. that's cool though, different contexts etc

yeah you have your more rootsy reggae side and your more organic dubby side and the stuff with loads of bongos... i'm more refering to the gobble wobble turkey-step which is indeed probably more popular in Ger.

Is this really the case, though? I thought African influences, for one thing, were meant to be all over various styles of dance music (in the UK, at any rate) at the moment?

hence i said "things might be changing up a bit". Funky is for sure leading the way out of the rut IMHO. but as Andy Says (that's a lou reed song innit), it's not all that mainstream and a bit of a dissensus thing.

I don't think you can have the conversation without foregrounding Afrofuturism which doesn't coincide neatly with its Euro counterpart. It precedes and outlives it too, particularly (in the latter case) in dance musics. This is the more relevant frame of reference, and it forces a reconsideration of what modernism is/was (and for whom) as well as its alleged demise. You can't talk about techno or jungle as futurisms without making that distinction.

i have some reading to do on this. especially since i'll be using the soundbyte as tagline for the soundsystem soon... recommend any books or anything else on Afrofuturism?
 

ether

Well-known member
A lack of understanding or context is fine, Its the pretensions of re-inventing the wheel that always irks me, minimal techno as an example seems to employ such a stylistic reductive aperatus (alva nato, minus etc.) all slick vectors vapid of meaning, a future fetish.

I was always lead to believe minimalism was purely a reductive process lead thing, not an absence of ideas.
 

nomos

Administrator
i have some reading to do on this. especially since i'll be using the soundbyte as tagline for the soundsystem soon... recommend any books or anything else on Afrofuturism?
A few related to Afrofuturism v. Afromodernity and/or relative definitions of (post-)modernism(s) that take responses to slavery or colonization into account...

Galinsky Mangue: Postmodernity and the Global Culture Debate
... also other stuff that deals with Brazilian modernism and, in particular, Oswalde de Andrade
Eshun More Brilliant that the Sun
Weheliye Phonographies: Grooves in Afro Sonic Modernity
Lock Blutopia: Visions of the Future and Revisions of the Past in the Work of Sun Ra, Duke Ellington, and Anthony Braxton
Gilroy The Black Atlantic and parts of Against Race
 
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