Obama health reform

IdleRich

IdleRich
Can someone tell me what's going on with this? What precisely is Obama trying to push through and why are people (obviously the insurance companies have a vested interest but everyone I mean) so vehemently opposed? And is he gonna be successful in having it made law?
Also, what's with all the attacks on the NHS? And how is it possible that political adverts are reporting demonstrable and blatant lies, can't they be held to account for this?
 

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
A lot of the backlash is just mental ideologically tenacious rednecks. As long as someone convinces them it's another devious example of "big government" and is propelling the United States towards "socialism" they'll start yelling and forming organizations. I love how opponents even got a Canadian to appear in one of their smear ads to basically say "I hate my health care system." Of course, she is the only person in Canada who hates our health care system - it is otherwise an institution of virtually unanimous national pride.

Or that one person who at a town-hall conference stood up and cried, "Keep your god damn government hands off my Medicare!"... a program that is currently run by the government. Hilarious.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
From Sarah Palin's blog:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down's Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society", whether they are worthy of healthcare. Such a system is downright evil.
Hard to disagree with anything in that I think.
 

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
Is that Palin statement even true? I don't get what she means.
It's weird how in America politicians can and often concoct or back the most ridiculous and blatant lies in order to polarize idiots.
 

vimothy

yurp
The "death panel" reference is based on a (possibly deliberate) Chinese whispers style misunderstanding of something Obama said a few days ago, which... ah fuggit. Generic Palin idiocy however you slice it.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
What you baby-murder-supporting Nazicrats don't understand is that, as a married, white American woman in her 40s, it's SP's God-given right to have as many disabled babies as she likes.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Is that Palin statement even true?"
Well it's true in that "her" America is one in which that doesn't happen. The implication that that is what will happen under B Hussein Obama's socialist regime is, however, utter bollocks.
 

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
Well it's true in that "her" America is one in which that doesn't happen. The implication that that is what will happen under B Hussein Obama's socialist regime is, however, utter bollocks.

Yeah see? You really don't see this very much in Canada, and I get the feeling you don't see it much in other countries either. For instance, if that whole "birther" thing happened in Canada it would get on the news MAYBE for a day. In America you have Republicans edging around making comments on it, because outright calling them the bunch of lunatics that they are would be alienating the voting base.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
"Birthers" sound like some kind of demented cult from a dystopian sci-fi novel.

Which is probably more or less accurate.
 

empty mirror

remember the jackalope
all this stuff just brings out the cold-war anti-pinko sentiment that post-boomers assumed was buried. truly weird. the old men screaming at these town hall meetings are so out of touch and deluded.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
What precisely is Obama trying to push through and why are people (obviously the insurance companies have a vested interest but everyone I mean) so vehemently opposed?

no one is exactly sure what he/the Dems who are with him are trying to push thru, which is part of the problem. there are like 5 or 6 different committees in the Senate "studying" various health bill proposals. what they say in public is contradictory & sometimes incoherent, tho partially this owes to the party being divided on a lot of key points, & tbf Obama himself has been nothing less than eloquent every time he's spoken on it. of course, talking is what he does best. I dunno if he has the LBJ-style juice to threaten/cajole/wheedle to straight up force a bill thru.

I think a lot of the unbridled anger you see pouring out has little or nothing to do w/health care reform itself, at least not the nitty gritty policy points. it has everything to do w/what health care reform symbolizes, & more with the fear that a big segment of white America feels about well, the decline of white America. if you look at the complaints people bring up, aside from the "this country will become Russia" nonsense, it's stuff like illegal immigrants, whether or not Federal tax dollars will fund abortions. it's also very visceral - I get the feeling that the things that really make people afraid & angry are too big/abstract for them to address & that health care reform is largely a forum, an easy target, for them to lash out at. I also think it's a huge mistake, & a bit messed up, to lump them all in as "mental rednecks".

right now I reckon conservative pundits - the Beck/Limbaugh/Hannity etc line - & the insurance lobbies are kinda riding a tiger by whipping up all this mob sentiment. it could spin out of their control real quick, which is considerably more worrying than people shouting at elected officials in "town meetings".

And is he gonna be successful in having it made law?

I'd like to think so but I'm pretty dubious. the Democrats always find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory & this seems like no exception. what I suspect will happen is that a watered down bill, one that has been picked over by the vultures from the insurance industry & various other interest groups, will eventually be passed. it will be largely ineffective & we'll wind up doing this all over again in 5 or 10 years, but from an even worse position than we're in now. if this sounds familiar it's b/c that's how we handle a lot of things in the U.S.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the old men screaming at these town hall meetings are so out of touch and deluded.

are they? I mean, in one sense, clearly. the world is passing them by, which is where a great deal of the anger comes from, I think.

but OTOH this clearly taps into a deep-seated well of volatile feelings that has, again, little to do w/health care reform itself. sure, the feelings are being whipped up into a frenzy by agitators but there was something there to begin with. one could call it last-gasp, the last big hurrah for "this is our America" (the irony of the exclusivity of that statement not withstanding), it certainly smacks of desperation, but I dunno, these dudes still have a lot of swing. these aren't fringe feelings, put it that way, tho they certainly attract fringe elements as well.
 

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
I saw a reference to "deathers' in the same context yesterday. Who or what are they?

Birthers are a group of racist nutjobs in America who are suspicious that Barack Obama wasn't actually born in the United States and continue to demand proof that he was even after it has been quite conclusively offered up numerous times.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Birthers are a group of racist nutjobs in America who are suspicious that Barack Obama wasn't actually born in the United States and continue to demand proof that he was even after it has been quite conclusively offered up numerous times.

LOL, yeah, I knows that innit. It's deathers I'm asking about.
 

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
LOL, yeah, I knows that innit. It's deathers I'm asking about.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. Perhaps deathers are people who believe that Barack Obama is immortal and intends to change the constitution and stay in office for eternity. It wouldn't surprise me.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Birthers are a group of racist nutjobs

yes these dudes OTOH can all be lumped in as racist nutjobs. nothing like this would ever ever happen to a white president. as it happens John McCain was born, ironically enough, in the Panama Canal Zone back when that was a U.S. territory so his claim to having been born in the U.S. is if anything more tenuous. somehow I don't think McCain would have been subject to birthers if he'd won the election.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I saw a reference to "deathers' in the same context yesterday. Who or what are they?

people who believe there will be "death panels", presumably made up of gay communist Muslim bureaucrats, who decide who can & cannot receive life-saving treatment.

I heard some dude talking about this the other day on the radio & he was going on & on about how, under a health care system like the UK's, Stephen Hawking would've been put to death by one of these panels. the interviewer then point out that Hawking had, in fact, been a British subject for his entire life & no one had yet put him to death.
 
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