PDA

View Full Version : What happened to the North/South Divide?



sufi
27-09-2009, 04:54 PM
(in UK??)
you don't hear so much about it any more;
manch and leeds rehabilitated, scotland devoluted and thriving
did labour achieve this?

scottdisco
27-09-2009, 05:33 PM
still with us, w the obvious caveat that parts of Ldn, and, to a lesser extent some other places in the southeast (the 'south' in the north vs south actually means the southeast/south central coast/southern Anglia, right, i've always taken it? it's more primate Ldn - wrt Pestario in the Fuck London thread - versus all regions that are not immediately in the primate's orbit, eg so Cornwall not just Tyne-Tees) have problems of poverty pretty much as severe as anywhere in the country, but given that parts of Merseyside, Mcr and Middlesbrough remain the most deprived wards in England and Wales (a list of the most deprived of the 9,000 odd wards that are the smallest political units of England and Wales reveals the ones at the bottom are overwhelmingly in parts of the Merseyside, Birmingham, and Mcr conurbations, parts of the northeast, parts of Hull, parts of Stoke and such, probably other parts of urban Yorks), and parts of Glasgow have the worst health stats in the country (AFAIK), and parts of Burnley have - AFAIK still, was last time i checked - the most inadequate housing in which young people live in the country as a per head thing, and one of the, i believe, Brum constituencies has the highest poverty rates of one overall parliamentary constituency etc etc etc etc

still, totally w you on the regeneration thing. Owen H has written some enjoyably bracing stuff on his blog of trips to the larger provincial cities and all that Urban Splash architecture that greets the visitor.

a lot of visible symbols of city centre regeneration in some cities that i know are thanks to EU funds TBH. i remember living in Stoke and finding EU poverty aid food cans in the larder of our new (rented) terrace. of course this was before the great eastward expansion of the union, it's been several years since i lived in Staffordshire. certainly many of the big baubles in central Mcr are stamped w the EU flag first and foremost.

scottdisco
27-09-2009, 05:34 PM
P.S. Perhaps Old Etonian Dave will do his best to rehabilitate it when he gets in ;)

hucks
27-09-2009, 05:46 PM
parts of Merseyside, Mcr and Middlesbrough remain the most deprived wards in England and Wales (a list of the most deprived of the 9,000 odd wards that are the smallest political units of England and Wales reveals the ones at the bottom are overwhelmingly in parts of the Merseyside, Birmingham, and Mcr conurbations, parts of the northeast, parts of Hull, parts of Stoke and such, probably other parts of urban Yorks), and parts of Glasgow have the worst health stats in the country (AFAIK), and parts of Burnley have - AFAIK still, was last time i checked - the most inadequate housing in which young people live in the country as a per head thing, and one of the, i believe, Brum constituencies has the highest poverty rates of one overall parliamentary constituency etc etc etc etc



But there's a lot in London, too, traditionally Inner London (Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Newham,which is classed as Inner for some reason) but increasingly Barking, Enfield, Waltham Forest etc

What it represents, I think, is an urban rural thing, but cos The South has no big cities outside of London, it all looks like the North.


Although the ex mining areas of the NE - Easington, other bits of, i think, Durham - are incredibly poor if we use these measures. And they aren't urban, really. But anyway.

I also have another theory that whilst it was the Inner cores that used to be the poorest parts of the UK, the gentrifcation of the last decade or so which has happened in every city I've been to has pushed this poverty to the outskirts and the small towns. That's kind of borne out by what I was saying about London - borne out or, possibly, dominated by - but I think it's observable in eg Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield too. What this means re the North South divide I'm not sure.

Also, shouldn't forget the Midlands. East Midlands, which still had some manufacturing left, has been battered by the recession.

Edit: Actually, all of this is a massive digression. As you were...

scottdisco
27-09-2009, 06:03 PM
w you there, eg, parts of Easington have very high levels of deprivation. yes i wasn't meaning to minimise poverty in parts of Leicester, the old north Nottinghamshire pit towns etc by not explicitly mentioning them.
or small towns all over Britain w little going for them.
(Cornwall has the lowest income per head at the county level doesn't it i believe, after all. and everyone knows about the indices for Hastings, for eg.)

Blackpool or Barrow or Hartlepool or the Wear Valley are hardly big cities areas, i wasn't suggesting it's only really an urban phenomenon, to be sure.

and certainly in terms of child poverty, parts of Ldn post appalling stats.

but because Ldn is so much bigger than the rest of the country (wrt your 'borne out, or dominated by, i'm not sure'), and because of the enormous wealth of its wealthy areas and the wealthy orbit areas (bits of Oxon, Berks, Surrey etc), the north-south divide narrative will probably continue to have legs, it's a seductive simplification i admit, and a narrative that has been shored up by generations of inverse-snob Old Labour sorts i'm sure, but hey!

i'm digressing now, sorry Sufi :cool:

definitely feeling hucks' theories.

hucks
27-09-2009, 06:13 PM
Blackpool or Barrow or Hartlepool or the Wear Valley are hardly big cities areas, i wasn't suggesting it's only really an urban phenomenon, to be sure.



No, I was! Then retracting it later :D

bassbeyondreason
28-09-2009, 05:41 PM
I still hate Southerners.